On November 11 2014 23:49 Simberto wrote: Also, now you guys got me to want to play KSP again. I'd like to try a modded experience this time, however i am a) uninformed and b) lazy. Are there any good packs with loads of mods that make everything awesome and where i don't have to think about anything to use them?
So you're in the place where i was 3 weeks ago.
I didn't find complete packs, i found and installed every single mod myself. It's really simple though, you just have to ask yourself what you want. Do you want as many parts as possible? As realistic as possible? Space Stations? Colonies?
Meh, and then you get all the "Does x mod break y mod, why does everything explode and there are dozens of error mistakes" stuff that you always get when you mix multiple mods from different places that are not designed to work together. I hate dealing with that stuff.
On November 11 2014 23:54 Simberto wrote: Meh, and then you get all the "Does x mod break y mod, why does everything explode and there are dozens of error mistakes" stuff that you always get when you mix multiple mods from different places that are not designed to work together. I hate dealing with that stuff.
Tell me what you want, i'll tell you what you can use without breaking your game.
Minor sidenote though: mods to 95% only work on the 32bit client. The 64bit is so wonky that mod-developers abandoned it for now.
On November 11 2014 23:48 m4ini wrote: (fuel can now unbalance your rocket/plane when you use it, because of weightshift etc).
but that happens in the Unmodded game as well, doesnt it?
As far as i know, it doesn't. Weight/drag doesn't really play a role in terms of aerodynamics iirc. You need more dV for heavier rockets, yes. But that's as far as it gets. Maybe they changed that, but i doubt it (there's too many mods out there for that).
Good example are shuttles, if you burn through your fuel in the front-tanks, you won't be able to get the nose back down after reentry until you pump fuel back in the front (happens for me all the time, and the other way around as well - can't get nose up if fuel in the back is burned through and front still has fuel). I started with balancing manually (alt-click on fueltanks), but then went on to TAC Fuel Balancer, makes it easier because i also have to pump around food/oxygen and waste.
On November 11 2014 23:48 m4ini wrote: (fuel can now unbalance your rocket/plane when you use it, because of weightshift etc).
but that happens in the Unmodded game as well, doesnt it?
As far as i know, it doesn't. Weight/drag doesn't really play a role in terms of aerodynamics iirc. You need more dV for heavier rockets, yes. But that's as far as it gets. Maybe they changed that, but i doubt it (there's too many mods out there for that).
I meant that the weight shifts towards the back of the plane as you burn your fuel.
On November 11 2014 23:48 m4ini wrote: (fuel can now unbalance your rocket/plane when you use it, because of weightshift etc).
but that happens in the Unmodded game as well, doesnt it?
As far as i know, it doesn't. Weight/drag doesn't really play a role in terms of aerodynamics iirc. You need more dV for heavier rockets, yes. But that's as far as it gets. Maybe they changed that, but i doubt it (there's too many mods out there for that).
I meant that the weight shifts towards the back of the plane as you burn your fuel.
See my edit. I don't think it happens in the stock game, but on that one i might be wrong. Apart from that though, FAR adds aerodynamics to everything. Means, you can actually fly a brick, as long as you go fast enough. Makes some things easier, but other things really hard. ^^
edit: if you want to get deeper into understanding KSP and especially deadly reentry and FAR, i would tell you to take the time and watch scott manleys "Interstellar Quest". It's absolutely worth it.
edit2: to elaborate, he's very knowledgable about KSP and rocketry in general. He explains things, and he tries to do things "realistic", more or less. Meaning, no asparagus or other things like that. And he explains/plays with DR and FAR, so you can see what it does (sometimes pretty spectacular).
edit3: i also like his accent. But that's just me.
On November 11 2014 23:48 m4ini wrote: (fuel can now unbalance your rocket/plane when you use it, because of weightshift etc).
but that happens in the Unmodded game as well, doesnt it?
As far as i know, it doesn't. Weight/drag doesn't really play a role in terms of aerodynamics iirc. You need more dV for heavier rockets, yes. But that's as far as it gets. Maybe they changed that, but i doubt it (there's too many mods out there for that).
I meant that the weight shifts towards the back of the plane as you burn your fuel.
I am pretty sure the weight does shift if you remove fuel from a tank. I distinctly remember an episode in stock KSP where i had lander on Duna that comprised of 4 flat tanks in a square, all of which were linked, but i think i only had one or two engines in the middle. That thing was pretty stable when launching, and then suddenly started to spin and became uncontrollable, because the engines burned fuel from one of the tanks first, making the whole thing utterly unbalanced. It took me quite a while to figure out that that was the reason, and then i had to basically cut thrust while launching and shuffle the fuel around to stabilize the thing. Luckily i brought loads of extra fuel and somehow managed to get that silly thing into orbit.
On November 11 2014 23:48 m4ini wrote: (fuel can now unbalance your rocket/plane when you use it, because of weightshift etc).
but that happens in the Unmodded game as well, doesnt it?
As far as i know, it doesn't. Weight/drag doesn't really play a role in terms of aerodynamics iirc. You need more dV for heavier rockets, yes. But that's as far as it gets. Maybe they changed that, but i doubt it (there's too many mods out there for that).
I meant that the weight shifts towards the back of the plane as you burn your fuel.
I am pretty sure the weight does shift if you remove fuel from a tank. I distinctly remember an episode in stock KSP where i had lander on Duna that comprised of 4 flat tanks in a square, all of which were linked, but i think i only had one or two engines in the middle. That thing was pretty stable when launching, and then suddenly started to spin and became uncontrollable, because the engines burned fuel from one of the tanks first, making the whole thing utterly unbalanced. It took me quite a while to figure out that that was the reason, and then i had to basically cut thrust while launching and shuffle the fuel around to stabilize the thing. Luckily i brought loads of extra fuel and somehow managed to get that silly thing into orbit.
Yup, you two are right. The thing with FAR is that the consequences are worse now thanks to stalling mechanics. My bad.
edit: and the aerodynamics model - drag/lift now is based on every single part, so an empty fueltank at the wrong spot on your plane/shuttle means it'll brake apart even subsonic.
edit2: worth mentioning: Gravity turn in stock KSP has no risks behind it (turn 45 degree west at 7500m and throttle up) - with FAR your rocket will blow up because the upper stage now has drag, if you turn in atmosphere with FAR you will violently flip the rocket. As it would in real life, the KSP gravity turn doesn't work in RL, in fact rockets would selfdestruct. ^^
So if the KSP community for some reason hates Modpacks (I don't understand this in the slightest, but apparently that is the case), where would be a good place to find mods? Basically, i have no idea what i want. I just want stuff that adds to the game. More this, cooler that, better x, fixed y, whatever. I have no idea what mods exists, and i really just want a pack of 20 mods that work together and give me a whole new game.
I have no interest in the whole hardcore modding scene where you spend more time modding than actually playing the game. I want stuff that enhances the game with a minimum of effort on my side. And i have no idea where to find that, because when i google KSP mods i just find hundreds of sites with mods, i have no idea which of those actually work with the current version, which are utter shit, which are completely broken and don't work at all. To be honest, this is the main reason i don't usually mod my games. Sure, there are good mods out there. But it is usually so much effort to actually filter which ones work and which ones work together that you don't really play the game anymore, you just fight mods. And that is not something i enjoy. What i want is basically something that is as close as possible to an addon. Click this link, it does all the annoying stuff, and then it works and changes everything.
Or at least a list of mods that are tested together and actually work and are generally regarded as good additions to the game (Though if that exists i don't get why they don't just get repackaged together and save me from having to install 20 mods each on it's own.)
I don't want to mod for moddings sake, i want to mod so the game gets better, and that is pointless if you can't play anymore due to all the modding.
On November 12 2014 00:40 Simberto wrote: So if the KSP community for some reason hates Modpacks (I don't understand this in the slightest, but apparently that is the case), where would be a good place to find mods? Basically, i have no idea what i want. I just want stuff that adds to the game. More this, cooler that, better x, fixed y, whatever. I have no idea what mods exists, and i really just want a pack of 20 mods that work together and give me a whole new game.
I have no interest in the whole hardcore modding scene where you spend more time modding than actually playing the game. I want stuff that enhances the game with a minimum of effort on my side. And i have no idea where to find that, because when i google KSP mods i just find hundreds of sites with mods, i have no idea which of those actually work with the current version, which are utter shit, which are completely broken and don't work at all. To be honest, this is the main reason i don't usually mod my games. Sure, there are good mods out there. But it is usually so much effort to actually filter which ones work and which ones work together that you don't really play the game anymore, you just fight mods. And that is not something i enjoy. What i want is basically something that is as close as possible to an addon. Click this link, it does all the annoying stuff, and then it works and changes everything.
Or at least a list of mods that are tested together and actually work and are generally regarded as good additions to the game (Though if that exists i don't get why they don't just get repackaged together and save me from having to install 20 mods each on it's own.)
I don't want to mod for moddings sake, i want to mod so the game gets better, and that is pointless if you can't play anymore due to all the modding.
Every mod with [0.25] in the title works. Cursegaming also has apparently a modsection for KSP, but the forum is by far the most complete modlist.
In all honesty, there's no "without effort". You'll always have to unzip shit, configure stuff (toolbar springs to mind). It's like modding any game. WoW is no different, for example - there's not many mods that work out of the box the way you expect them to.
edit: also, the only trouble i had with my installation this time was my fault (overwrote firespitter,dll and modulemanager.dll with older versions) - and crashes thanks to 32bit client (out of memory), which was fixed by installing the texture-fixer (ActiveTextureManagement).
edit2: safe to say, it took me roughly two hours to find and install/cfg all the mods i wanted. And now i have roughly 100 hours on that installation without fault. I think that's acceptable, especially considering that mods add SO much to the game.
In my opinion the only mods you need are Kerbal Alarm Clock and MechJeb or Engineer for delta v (unless you enjoy doing tedious math for every rocket or being completely clueless if your mission will work).
Part packs contain mostly insanely overpowered engines, either they have magnificient TWR or Isp (or both).
There are mods for various issues, like docking port and joint stability, but that shouldn't actually be a problem if you simply take the time to learn how to build a stable rocket.
Disagree. Yes, there are op engines in some packs, but part packs are not just about engines - B9 comes to mind, or Interstellar. Especially Interstellar actually. There's some pretty OP engines in Interstellar, but first you have to get them - and then you have to be able to fuel them (antimatter etc) - which in fact takes you longer to get where-ever you want than just a duna-tug. You can literally build that with 1000 science total, and off you go.
Not to mention, that i actually didn't really see a really OP engine. Karbonite comes with an engine that produces insane thrust for it's weight/size, but it also goes through a tank in a matter of seconds. Yes, you still can build something that hops around the mun, gathering science and fueling itself by drilling karbonite - but in all honesty, you can do that with stock LV-Ns too. Just that you don't need to refuel, they're simply efficient enough for that. Not indefinately, but you can hop through 4-5 biomes easily before returning to earth.
Visual Enhancements are fun at the beginning, but as soon as you have something big in orbit above kerbin, your fps go down to single digits - that's why i stopped using it.
edit: Mechjeb equals cheating in KSP. The amount of automation (ascent, circularize orbit, hothman transfer to mun, return from mun - done in 4 clicks) is ridiculous. Now you can say "well don't use it then" - which would invalidate your argument about OP engines. Don't use them then.
Well, if you don't have the self-control you can simply use KerbalEngineer. Mechjeb just comes with the custom info windows, which are more convenient. MechJeb/Engineer and KAC are quality of life mods, they don't change how "difficult" it is to achieve x, they just remove a lot of tedium. Overpowered parts on the other hand can make everything trivial.
I'm not trying to say it's wrong or whatever to use part mods. If you like the parts, go ahead and have fun with them.
MechJeb/Engineer and KAC are quality of life mods, they don't change how "difficult" it is to achieve x
That's simply wrong. I remember vividly how much trouble i had the first time playing KSP, trying to get to the mun. If you can do that with two clicks (literally, it's not a figure of speech - it takes TWO clicks) - i'd say it removes alot of difficulty from the game. And that's just the mun. You can do Moho, Duna, etc etc in two clicks too.
KAC on the other hand, i agree. That's a quality of life mod. Mechjeb is too, but if you're arguing that op engines make stuff trivial and then go on to defend to the single mod that actually literally makes the whole game trivial, that's just weird.
Still doesn't change the fact that you can simply ignore op engines (whichever engine you'd like to deem so) if you don't want to use them. I yet have to see an engine that makes things trivial. May i ask which ones you're talking about?
On November 12 2014 05:29 Epoxide wrote: I assume he meant MechJeb without using any of the autopiloting stuff.
If he argues that partpacks make the game trivial because of engines, that argument doesn't count. If you can ignore the autofeatures on mechjeb, you can also ignore "allegedly" op engines in partpacks.
edit: apart from the obvious question which engines out there actually are op. All stong engines that i've seen need a specific setup beforehand (like antimatter collectors etc) - which in itself takes longer than just using stockparts to get whereever you want. Putting 4 LV'Ns and a crapton of fuel into orbit isn't exactly hard either, anyway (you can get there in like an hour playtime). And that's all you need to get anywhere if you don't use mods like TAC Lifesupport.
I mentioned KerbalEngineer in the same stroke, obviously I'm only referring to the information MechJeb+Engineer provide. If you're using autopilot, I don't see how you are actually playing, that's more like watching a movie that you direct. MechJeb's autopilot is rather inefficient anyway.
Part packs contain mostly insanely overpowered engines
I'm not discounting the possibility that there are part packs with nicely balanced engines and definitely not saying that 100% of the contents of a part pack are bad.
Maybe this is an exaggeration by now, but the last time I tried a part pack (0.21 or so) I didn't find any engine that wasn't op in my opinion. KW Rocketry comes to mind, it is widely used and the first 1.25m engine you get is more efficient than all stock engines (except LV-N ofc) while providing decent thrust.
KWR has nice stuff too, the fuel tanks for 2.5 to 1.25 connections instead of 0.1t of dead weight are very nice for making a good looking rocket, but the engines are too good.
EPT
