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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
My first Moon mission return is always kinda screwed because when I realize I Land in water its too late, (last landing was about 400 meter off the shore :<). Any1 have any tips? I cant predict where I land when I have an Orbit or a Sub orbit from the Mun to Kerbin, its just so far away. I heard a 360° turn of Kerbin is 4h 30min but for some reason I still cant predict it xD How do you guys make sure you Land safely? | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
edit: both highly recommended btw | ||
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Simberto
Germany12054 Posts
And yes, the main question is how much fuel you have left after your return burn. The more fuel, the more wiggleroom for adjustment maneuvers. One of the more fuel-efficient maneuvers to get more control over where you land would for example let you just scratch the upper atmosphere of kerbin, maybe ~50km (I don't really know the exact numbers that work), slowing you down and greatly reducing the excentricity of your orbit on that passthrough, but not so low that you directly land on Kerbin. This would mean that you have a much smaller orbit to work with for the actual approach to landing on orbit later, which might make hitting land easier. If you have even more fuel to burn, you could do a similar trajectory, only a bit lower so you would get slowed down enough to hit Kerbin, and do some additional upwards/downwards adjustment burns while in the atmosphere to alter the amount of land you cover. | ||
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stenole
Norway869 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12054 Posts
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:26 stenole wrote: You lose science from landing in the water? I had no idea.. I lose it because my Science Junior gets destroyed like 80% of the time I land in water ;D If you land in Water and all your parts are still intact then you dont lose any science. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
One of the more fuel-efficient maneuvers to get more control over where you land would for example let you just scratch the upper atmosphere of kerbin, maybe ~50km (I don't really know the exact numbers that work), slowing you down and greatly reducing the excentricity of your orbit on that passthrough, but not so low that you directly land on Kerbin. That's why i'm asking for FAR/deadly reentry, especially deadly reentry would make a single return burn from the mun to kerbal pretty impossible (you'd burn up due to the steep re-entry). The idea and numbers are correct btw. It depends on your speed (i'm again assuming deadly reentry, since i never played without it), but the "braking dip in atmosphere" is generally between 40k and 50k, depending on speed (higher speed = less deep in atmosphere). After two or three "braking orbits" you should be slow enough to pinpoint where you want to land. edit: your science junior breakes in water, but not on land? Did you put it on top of a relatively high vehicle? The easiest way to circumvent that is simply, redesign your lander.  | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On November 11 2014 22:52 m4ini wrote: It depends on your design, do you have fuel left after the burn to return to kerbal? And do you play with FAR/deadly reentry? I dont use any addons ;X maybe i should get them xD So, my basic problem is, My last Lander had fuel, and I tried to burn towards the shore but it wasnt enough OR I noticed the problem too late. The thing is, Id like a good rule of thumb so I can burn earlier :X So on my return path, right after I had a Mun Escape, I had NO idea where I would land since Kerbin turns around its axis, so I now assume that if I make a maneuver node at the end I can see the "Reach node in X time". If thats 6h, then I expect to land right where my blue line shows me(minus the slowdown during reentry). | ||
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Simberto
Germany12054 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:28 Daumen wrote: I lose it because my Science Junior gets destroyed like 80% of the time I land in water ;D If you land in Water and all your parts are still intact then you dont lose any science. Oh. You need more parachutes. The Science Junior has a lesser impact tolerance than a capsule, and you can't use landing struts in water. If you add a few more parachutes and you don't have an absurdly spaceships that breaks by falling over after landing in water, your descent rate will be below 8m/s and thus not break the thingy. I would always configure anything that is designed to return to Kerbin so it can land in water, that saves a lot of trouble. | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:29 m4ini wrote: edit: your science junior breakes in water, but not on land? Did you put it on top of a relatively high vehicle? The easiest way to circumvent that is simply, redesign your lander. Since I'm still at "low tech", all thats returning from my Mun mission is/was the starter COmmand Module, Science Junior, 1 Fuel Tank, engine in that order (and the parachute on top of the command module). I dont use any addons (HARDCORE MODE, lol). So I cant even really tell if my ships efficient or not ;D My Mun Lander Mission costs 60k funds, i believe there are cheaper designs (with low tech AND it has a science junior & 2 mystery goo). On November 11 2014 23:34 Simberto wrote: Oh. You need more parachutes. The Science Junior has a lesser impact tolerance than a capsule, and you can't use landing struts in water. If you add a few more parachutes and you don't have an absurdly spaceships that breaks by falling over after landing in water, your descent rate will be below 8m/s and thus not break the thingy. I would always configure anything that is designed to return to Kerbin so it can land in water, that saves a lot of trouble. oh, in that case I could actually also use my engine to burn before landing. Just a slight burn to get below 8m/s ? I tried that one time I think and it didnt work (probably because I didnt go below 8m/s) and thought it doesnt actually work! ill try that next time, ty | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:32 Daumen wrote: I dont use any addons ;X maybe i should get them xD So, my basic problem is, My last Lander had fuel, and I tried to burn towards the shore but it wasnt enough OR I noticed the problem too late. The thing is, Id like a good rule of thumb so I can burn earlier :X So on my return path, right after I had a Mun Escape, I had NO idea where I would land since Kerbin turns around its axis, so I now assume that if I make a maneuver node at the end I can see the "Reach node in X time". If thats 6h, then I expect to land right where my blue line shows me(minus the slowdown during reentry). FAR and Deadly Reentry are the two mods i can't play without. But be warned, it doesn't make the game easier, quite the opposite. Aerodynamics (well, more or less) start to play a role, and heatshielding for your vessels. I still don't really understand what you're doing, so i'll just describe how i return from the mun. After the return burn from the mun (~450dV) i'm in an extremely eccentric orbit around kerbin. I then burn a tiny bit retrograde (i assume you know pro/retrograde, if not, tell me) to get my periapsis to around 45-50km above kerbin, to use the atmosphere to slow down a bit - two or three times, until i have a relatively stable orbit. And from there it's just shooting fish in a barrel, you can't really miss your target from there. edit: Since I'm still at "low tech", all thats returning from my Mun mission is/was the starter COmmand Module, Science Junior, 1 Fuel Tank, engine in that order (and the parachute on top of the command module). Do you have the radial parachute unlocked already? And, just by imagination now, put a decoupler between the capsule/science jr and the rest, so all that lands is the capsule with the science jr - saves weight (not sure if it matters in stock ksp actually oO). Then the what, MK16 on the nose should be enough to slow you down enough. | ||
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stenole
Norway869 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:28 Daumen wrote: I lose it because my Science Junior gets destroyed like 80% of the time I land in water ;D If you land in Water and all your parts are still intact then you dont lose any science. You could always have your Kerbal fetch the science from the science junior and bring it back to the command pod. | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:39 stenole wrote: You could always have your Kerbal fetch the science from the science junior and bring it back to the command pod. I didnt even know that was possible, lol. tyvm | ||
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Simberto
Germany12054 Posts
Btw, second workaround if you do not wish to redesign or aim where you land: Spacewalk, grab the data out of the science junior and the mystery goo, and put it into the capsule. This means that you don't have to waste fuel carrying used-up sciences back, which can make interplanetary missions a lot easier because you need a lot less fuel to return after dumping your science facilities onto Duna, while still getting all the science because you took it out of the thingy first. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:39 stenole wrote: You could always have your Kerbal fetch the science from the science junior and bring it back to the command pod. True. But honestly, i really dislike breaking things on my rockets, i want to have everything refurbishable as much as possible. It's a bit OCD, but still. ^^ | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:38 m4ini wrote: FAR and Deadly Reentry are the two mods i can't play without. But be warned, it doesn't make the game easier, quite the opposite. Aerodynamics (well, more or less) start to play a role, and heatshielding for your vessels. I still don't really understand what you're doing, so i'll just describe how i return from the mun. After the return burn from the mun (~450dV) i'm in an extremely eccentric orbit around kerbin. I then burn a tiny bit retrograde (i assume you know pro/retrograde, if not, tell me) to get my periapsis to around 45-50km above kerbin, to use the atmosphere to slow down a bit - two or three times, until i have a relatively stable orbit. And from there it's just shooting fish in a barrel, you can't really miss your target from there. ye I know what you mean, guess I am just too lazy/impatient (or too cocky?) to do that ;D But can you give me a basic summary on what FAR & deadly reentry is? I assume deadly reentry just makes the reentry burn do dmg to your vessel and you need to worry about it (with new parts?). | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:42 Simberto wrote: From what i gather, the problem is that the lander is designed to land on land, not water. Thus it probably descends at ~10m/s with its one parachute, and the landing struts make it not explode on land. However, on water they are useless, thus the stuff explodes. Btw, second workaround if you do not wish to redesign or aim where you land: Spacewalk, grab the data out of the science junior and the mystery goo, and put it into the capsule. This means that you don't have to waste fuel carrying used-up sciences back, which can make interplanetary missions a lot easier because you need a lot less fuel to return after dumping your science facilities onto Duna, while still getting all the science because you took it out of the thingy first. I feel like I have opened a Portal to a WHOLE NEW WORLD! Im still pretty much a total noob even after 380h of playtime ;X | ||
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Simberto
Germany12054 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:43 m4ini wrote: True. But honestly, i really dislike breaking things on my rockets, i want to have everything refurbishable as much as possible. It's a bit OCD, but still. ^^ You gotta think enviromentally friendly. Carrying used-up science facilities back to Kerbin wastes absurd amounts of fuel, and fuel to get that fuel into orbit, etc.... | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:43 Daumen wrote: ye I know what you mean, guess I am just too lazy/impatient (or too cocky?) to do that ;D But can you give me a basic summary on what FAR & deadly reentry is? I assume deadly reentry just makes the reentry burn do dmg to your vessel and you need to worry about it (with new parts?). http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/54954-0-25-Deadly-Reentry-v6-2-1-Oct-12-2014 http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/20451-0-25-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-14-3-2-10-21-14 In short, deadly reentry makes your stuff burn up if on reentry (you need to shield your vessel for that), and FAR (Ferram Aerospace Research) makes aerodynamics work in the game. Meaning, for example, you have to build your rockets UP and not sideways to get somewhere (asparagus). Nosecones on top of rockets make sense, etc etc - you can read that in the links. It makes the game alot harder though (fuel can now unbalance your rocket/plane when you use it, because of weightshift etc). I'd say, these two addons are pretty mandatory for anyone who actually is into rocketry. There's two other mods i can't play without (TAC Fuel Balancer because of FAR, and TAC Life support - you need to feed/warm etc your kerbals or they die). edit You gotta think enviromentally friendly. Carrying used-up science facilities back to Kerbin wastes absurd amounts of fuel, and fuel to get that fuel into orbit, etc.... Enviromentally friendly.. Well.. I often use a DT Vista Inertial Fusion Engine (Interstellar), so that ship is sailed. :D | ||
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Simberto
Germany12054 Posts
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