On July 24 2012 10:20 JingleHell wrote: Gasts/Thumper DX, Frag. I haven't played it as much.
If your playing stand d you should be using proxies instead of frags.
Good thing I don't play stand d with soldiers, then, huh?
O-o. Well then what are you doing with the soldier? Because stand d and LD are the only things you should be using him for. Unless your just pubbing, in that case you can just do whatever you want because pubs are pretty silly.
I was mostly using him to unlock my raider. I bought a couple weapons, and then realized that the class is kind of meh. Although soldier is great for troll capping in bad pubs.
But yeah, I was either random dueling or troll capping.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
Oh good, we have TWO people who are objectively right about something subjective now!
As it turns out, the Jammer takes you off the HUD, it stops turrets from shooting you, and it generally makes it easier to attack into a defended position. A shield, you die slower to the same pile of attacks, a jammer, a lot of them aren't even happening to begin with.
I don't expect to convince you, but stop trying to convince ME that taking less damage from getting hit is somehow better than getting hit a LOT less.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
Oh good, we have TWO people who are objectively right about something subjective now!
Well considering Coriolis is one of the closest things T:A has to a "pro" and was actually on a team competitively, his opinion is not worth discounting so easily. You don't have to act so defensive when someone actually provides reasoning as to why it is subjectively more useful for not only the situations you speak of but more situations in general. The jammer pack and cluster grenades are just not as versatile as the shield pack and the whiteout grenades. Jammer pack only makes radar not see you and a bad person maybe pause before shooting you, shield pack actually gives you more hits even against someone who is good and would shoot you whether or not you were jamming him, and you can whiteout to blind him for 7-8 seconds so he can't see you at all, rather than being harder to see with jammer. And cluster grenades do not clear areas better or faster than your primary, it's a much more delayed burst that does more damage when it does burst, but is too slow and limited for the speed compared to nade launcher or arx which can provide much more coverage and comparable damage in the same time frame.
Retaliating emotionally and defensively to actual reasoning without any substance just makes you look dumb, regardless of whether its subjective or not.
Edit: Oh you actually have something in the post now. Unfortunately, turrets shouldn't hit you anyway, because of speed. Base turrets are easy to dodge and tech turrets easy to kill. The radar and the gen shouldn't be up to make hud a difference, because you're a raider who can take care of those easily.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
Oh good, we have TWO people who are objectively right about something subjective now!
Well considering Coriolis is one of the closest things T:A has to a "pro" and was actually on a team competitively, his opinion is not worth discounting so easily. You don't have to act so defensive when someone actually provides reasoning as to why it is subjectively more useful for not only the situations you speak of but more situations in general. The jammer pack and cluster grenades are just not as versatile as the shield pack and the whiteout grenades. Jammer pack only makes radar not see you and a bad person maybe pause before shooting you, shield pack actually gives you more hits even against someone who is good and would shoot you whether or not you were jamming him, and you can whiteout to blind him for 7-8 seconds so he can't see you at all, rather than being harder to see with jammer. And cluster grenades do not clear areas better or faster than your primary, it's a much more delayed burst that does more damage when it does burst, but is too slow and limited for the speed compared to nade launcher or arx which can provide much more coverage and comparable damage in the same time frame.
Retaliating emotionally and defensively to actual reasoning without any substance just makes you look dumb, regardless of whether its subjective or not.
Edit: Oh you actually have something in the post now. Unfortunately, turrets shouldn't hit you anyway, because of speed and base turrets are easy to dodge. The radar and the gen shouldn't be up to make hud a difference. You shouldn't rely on being hidden from hud as actually being hidden.
I've already answered a pisston of this, not that you read enough to sound even vaguely sane. What's most "competitive" is not automatically most ideal for dealing with pubs. When you're either the only one trying to keep the gen down, or one of 2-3 people rotating deaths in the gen room to keep half the other team tied up, it's a different situation than a "competitive" game.
If there's an entirely different meta in pubs, you play to that. And for that, a Jammer to keep you from dying to the 4 deployed turrets at oddball angles to keep you from blowing them up from outside the gen room, and cluster nades to do filthy damage to the 5 guys in there, who you wouldn't hit all of with a whiteout grenade... different style, different play, different success.
I'm not entirely sure why a bunch of people are too stubborn to see this, it's actually NOT rocket science. It would be like somebody expecting SC2 FFA or 2v2 strats to be ideal in a normal 1v1 tourney.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
Oh good, we have TWO people who are objectively right about something subjective now!
Well considering Coriolis is one of the closest things T:A has to a "pro" and was actually on a team competitively, his opinion is not worth discounting so easily. You don't have to act so defensive when someone actually provides reasoning as to why it is subjectively more useful for not only the situations you speak of but more situations in general. The jammer pack and cluster grenades are just not as versatile as the shield pack and the whiteout grenades. Jammer pack only makes radar not see you and a bad person maybe pause before shooting you, shield pack actually gives you more hits even against someone who is good and would shoot you whether or not you were jamming him, and you can whiteout to blind him for 7-8 seconds so he can't see you at all, rather than being harder to see with jammer. And cluster grenades do not clear areas better or faster than your primary, it's a much more delayed burst that does more damage when it does burst, but is too slow and limited for the speed compared to nade launcher or arx which can provide much more coverage and comparable damage in the same time frame.
Retaliating emotionally and defensively to actual reasoning without any substance just makes you look dumb, regardless of whether its subjective or not.
Edit: Oh you actually have something in the post now. Unfortunately, turrets shouldn't hit you anyway, because of speed. Base turrets are easy to dodge and tech turrets easy to kill. The radar and the gen shouldn't be up to make hud a difference, because you're a raider who can take care of those easily.
Not having an opinion either way, but if the HUD visibility is irrelevant, then so is the turret targetting.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
Oh good, we have TWO people who are objectively right about something subjective now!
Well considering Coriolis is one of the closest things T:A has to a "pro" and was actually on a team competitively, his opinion is not worth discounting so easily. You don't have to act so defensive when someone actually provides reasoning as to why it is subjectively more useful for not only the situations you speak of but more situations in general. The jammer pack and cluster grenades are just not as versatile as the shield pack and the whiteout grenades. Jammer pack only makes radar not see you and a bad person maybe pause before shooting you, shield pack actually gives you more hits even against someone who is good and would shoot you whether or not you were jamming him, and you can whiteout to blind him for 7-8 seconds so he can't see you at all, rather than being harder to see with jammer. And cluster grenades do not clear areas better or faster than your primary, it's a much more delayed burst that does more damage when it does burst, but is too slow and limited for the speed compared to nade launcher or arx which can provide much more coverage and comparable damage in the same time frame.
Retaliating emotionally and defensively to actual reasoning without any substance just makes you look dumb, regardless of whether its subjective or not.
Edit: Oh you actually have something in the post now. Unfortunately, turrets shouldn't hit you anyway, because of speed and base turrets are easy to dodge. The radar and the gen shouldn't be up to make hud a difference. You shouldn't rely on being hidden from hud as actually being hidden.
I've already answered a pisston of this, not that you read enough to sound even vaguely sane. What's most "competitive" is not automatically most ideal for dealing with pubs. When you're either the only one trying to keep the gen down, or one of 2-3 people rotating deaths in the gen room to keep half the other team tied up, it's a different situation than a "competitive" game.
If there's an entirely different meta in pubs, you play to that. And for that, a Jammer to keep you from dying to the 4 deployed turrets at oddball angles to keep you from blowing them up from outside the gen room, and cluster nades to do filthy damage to the 5 guys in there, who you wouldn't hit all of with a whiteout grenade... different style, different play, different success.
I'm not entirely sure why a bunch of people are too stubborn to see this, it's actually NOT rocket science. It would be like somebody expecting SC2 FFA or 2v2 strats to be ideal in a normal 1v1 tourney.
I wasn't speaking specifically of competitive play, just giving my reasoning why I prefer the grenade launchers massively huge explosion radius for clearing a room easier than cluster grenades and using other methods to deal with tech turrets like playing carefully indoors (outdoors they're a bad joke) instead of sacrificing the shield pack. Tech turrets are only really a problem when they catch you off guard and you are moving too slow, can't shoot them down, or aren't near cover, and the gens easy to kill regardless. But play with whatever you find fun, that's what's most important anyway.
On July 23 2012 13:19 Coriolis wrote: The shield pack is 9001x better than the jammer pack, also whiteout grenades>cluster grenades.
Shield pack is better if you get hit a lot, jammer lets you get in free hits when they can't see you coming.
Cluster is excellent for smashing multiple opponents in tight spaces.
...... Except anyone decent is going to be spamming the spot command which bypasses the jammer. Shield toggling extends your lifetime by at least 2x, even 3x. And the grenade launcher does that job just as well as cluster nades because cluster nades have way too long fuses.
We clearly have different experiences with the cluster nades, And getting spotted isn't exactly a super long term thing, so the jammer can work quite nicely if you're clear for a couple of seconds.
Different experiences, and possibly different uses. I'm not going to tell you NOT to use what you like, but that setup works quite well for me.
No, coriolis is right on this one. You don't need cluster grenades because your primary weapon is what you should be using to clear areas, the explosion radius on the grenade launcher is especially huge. The shield pack is also more important than the jammer because you need more survivability, rather than only hiding from useless radars(which won't be active anyway) and making you only harder to see at long range(thats even true of an inf who can completely hide, its better for surviving than hiding). Whiteout grenades are what you use when you get spotted instead of jammer, they are way op in their length. Primary>cluster nades, whiteout>useless jammer
For those asking about survivalist perk, I use it on almost every class in at least one loadout. It's very useful, that extra energy and health will save your ass midfight with extra jets, or let you jump back into the fray much quicker instead of waiting to heal, and grabbing ammo packs is not hard at all if you are actually getting kills. It does tend to shine a lot more in TDM though with the overabundance of ammo packs, especially for healing while holding the flag, but it's still useful in CTF, and is an absolute requirement for an inf.
Oh good, we have TWO people who are objectively right about something subjective now!
Well considering Coriolis is one of the closest things T:A has to a "pro" and was actually on a team competitively, his opinion is not worth discounting so easily. You don't have to act so defensive when someone actually provides reasoning as to why it is subjectively more useful for not only the situations you speak of but more situations in general. The jammer pack and cluster grenades are just not as versatile as the shield pack and the whiteout grenades. Jammer pack only makes radar not see you and a bad person maybe pause before shooting you, shield pack actually gives you more hits even against someone who is good and would shoot you whether or not you were jamming him, and you can whiteout to blind him for 7-8 seconds so he can't see you at all, rather than being harder to see with jammer. And cluster grenades do not clear areas better or faster than your primary, it's a much more delayed burst that does more damage when it does burst, but is too slow and limited for the speed compared to nade launcher or arx which can provide much more coverage and comparable damage in the same time frame.
Retaliating emotionally and defensively to actual reasoning without any substance just makes you look dumb, regardless of whether its subjective or not.
Edit: Oh you actually have something in the post now. Unfortunately, turrets shouldn't hit you anyway, because of speed and base turrets are easy to dodge. The radar and the gen shouldn't be up to make hud a difference. You shouldn't rely on being hidden from hud as actually being hidden.
I've already answered a pisston of this, not that you read enough to sound even vaguely sane. What's most "competitive" is not automatically most ideal for dealing with pubs. When you're either the only one trying to keep the gen down, or one of 2-3 people rotating deaths in the gen room to keep half the other team tied up, it's a different situation than a "competitive" game.
If there's an entirely different meta in pubs, you play to that. And for that, a Jammer to keep you from dying to the 4 deployed turrets at oddball angles to keep you from blowing them up from outside the gen room, and cluster nades to do filthy damage to the 5 guys in there, who you wouldn't hit all of with a whiteout grenade... different style, different play, different success.
I'm not entirely sure why a bunch of people are too stubborn to see this, it's actually NOT rocket science. It would be like somebody expecting SC2 FFA or 2v2 strats to be ideal in a normal 1v1 tourney.
I wasn't speaking specifically of competitive play, just giving my reasoning why I prefer the grenade launchers massively huge explosion radius for clearing a room easier than cluster grenades and using other methods to deal with tech turrets like playing carefully indoors or moving quickly outdoors instead of sacrificing the shield pack. Tech turrets are only really a problem when they catch you off guard and you are moving too slow, can't shoot them down, or aren't near cover, and the gens easy to kill regardless. But play with whatever you find fun, that's what's most important anyway.
I use the nade launcher too, but clusters are excellent for certain uses.
Tech turrets in the gen room can shred you, even through shield pack, if they're placed well. Decent spacing and positioning and you're dead before you can kill them all.
And the only person I expect to be able to count on in pubs is myself, so I go equipped assuming I'll be pretty much soloing the gen room. Even when that happens, I tie up enough of the other team to really help out a lot, even if I can't keep the gen down that way.
I'd probably use whiteouts if I was queueing with other people who I knew were worth a damn, but I'd still stick with the jammer. People not knowing where I'm coming from is more useful than more health in the situations I tend to get stuck in, and tech turrets are a pain in the ass when they're all over the place and nobody else is getting within a mile of the gen room.
Basically, the shield is better in 2 scenarios: If you're worse than all your opponents, or if everyone is pretty decent. In pubs, where you get everywhere from horrendous to great, for a middle of the pack type player like me, the Jammer has an overall better success rate when players couldn't coordinate if their lives depended on it.
The only thing I hate about Tribes are the Elitists who believe PUGs are the only way to play. So this is how it must feel to be a Bronze Player. It sucks .
Oh yeah, and Tribes during NASL is so boring to watch (z_z). I really want the game to be a success, because it's amazing to play, but it's so boring to watch. Tribes has a ton of tactical potential, with people passing the Flag across the Field, but it's no where near that. It's pretty much some one caps at 300 and 2 seconds later score.
Maybe teams should be bigger, so that we have more to watch, and for the Generator room to have a purpose. So that classes such as the Brute, Tech, and Infiltrator have a place in the Comp scene.
Infiltrators do have a place in pugs at least, they're great for fucking with snipers (which everyone should always have in their team), and getting flags back with sonic punch and reach
On July 25 2012 03:09 Scalepad wrote: Infiltrators do have a place in pugs at least, they're great for fucking with snipers (which everyone should always have in their team), and getting flags back with sonic punch and reach
I was wondering about what you wrote so I Googled it. Damn. Never thought about that one.+ Show Spoiler +
Permafrost is going to be a clusterfuck in 16v16, unless they have managed to do some amazing stuff, and routes are going to be heavily timed to absolute massive assaults. Still, it's an interesting approach for sure, but I despair for the pub matches that are going to be played there.
As for the clan tags.
OK, they can be bought with XP, which is good, but you can buy any tag, and each member has to buy their individual tag. For each new clan they join. There are going to be an absolute flood of [idk?] members at this rate.
I'm still quite upset about the nitron nerf, but I guess we'll just have to see how good the increase to disk jumping (and this new twinfusor) really is before I say anything.
EPT
.
