On July 11 2011 19:36 Pandemona wrote: Lewis on the last lap was sensational!!! To deny Massa on the last but one corner! Magical proves he can drive pretty darn good!! Thats without even mentioning going from 10th-3rd in 15 laps!?! Magic!! Shame MClaren in general had a P*** poor race again! Messing up Button thanks to the Lollipop man, messing up Hamiltons fuel load, Qualifying was pretty poor again aswell.
Still, thank god they "Nerf'd" RedBull!!!
They 'Nerf'd' redbull? How so? Ferrari have been catching them slowly all season, least Alonso has... the only reason he got passed Vettel was becasue of a poor stop, RBR proved in Quali they have the out right pace to still be on top...
I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
They are grossly misrepreseted facts with a ridiculously shallow conclusion actually.
Hurr, Vettel has beaten Kobayashi 9-0. They have both had Formula 1 cars. Facts! Looks like a crushing!
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
Webber weren´t given the same chances as Vettel... that´s fact
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
They are grossly misrepreseted facts with a ridiculously shallow conclusion actually.
Hurr, Vettel has beaten Kobayashi 9-0. They have both had Formula 1 cars. Facts! Looks like a crushing!
That, dsn't even make sense... Webber and Vettel have the same car... it's like saying that Massa isn't getting beaten by Alonso this season, he's just 'unlucky'...
On July 13 2011 07:34 PITN wrote: Think it's pretty obvious lachrymose's opinion is based on the fact he's an aussie.. There aren't any other facts to explain his opinion.. :p
I agree with him. Vettel has had some problems this year as well, almost exclusively with KERS, but not nearly to the same degree as Webber.
I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
The red bull unit has been unreliable for both drivers. Secondly it is only a 60% KERS unit, probably worth 2/10ths maximum. If you want to find excuses for Webber you will and you are. Face facts Webber has been easily beaten this year.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid. Webber is a great driver, but he proved last season that he just isn't a WC... he had that championship.. it was his to loose and he lost it.. Vettel was a mess pretty much untill the end of last season and it got to Webber.
What defines a great driver is there ability to drive around problems this season has been INSANE for reliabiltiy, Vettel has literally had nearly identical issues to that of Webber, the diffrence is that Vettel can drive around the problem and Webber can't.
Wow, I didn't know this thread existed! Gonna bookmark this and start posting alot, I'm actually soooo glad that TL has an F1 community, however small or big. Speaking of which, does anyone else here post on other F1 forums?
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
Yeah I think it's pretty unfair to put him outside the top10 of the drivers on the track... he has so much experiance and is still fast, just becasue he's not as fast as Vettel in a team where Vettel is and always has been no1 isn't easy. Remeber Alonso, Hamilton when they where both at McLaren... I'd say Lewis and Fernado are pretty even skill level wise but Lewis destoryed Alonso in his rookie year.
So I think that writing Webber off is a little silly, but I 100% agree that he's not in the same league as the big boys
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
Yeah I think it's pretty unfair to put him outside the top10 of the drivers on the track... he has so much experiance and is still fast, just becasue he's not as fast as Vettel in a team where Vettel is and always has been no1 isn't easy. Remeber Alonso, Hamilton when they where both at McLaren... I'd say Lewis and Fernado are pretty even skill level wise but Lewis destoryed Alonso in his rookie year.
So I think that writing Webber off is a little silly, but I 100% agree that he's not in the same league as the big boys
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
Yeah I think it's pretty unfair to put him outside the top10 of the drivers on the track... he has so much experiance and is still fast, just becasue he's not as fast as Vettel in a team where Vettel is and always has been no1 isn't easy. Remeber Alonso, Hamilton when they where both at McLaren... I'd say Lewis and Fernado are pretty even skill level wise but Lewis destoryed Alonso in his rookie year.
So I think that writing Webber off is a little silly, but I 100% agree that he's not in the same league as the big boys
Lol, they had the same points total....
...Alonso was a double reigning world champion and Lewis was a rookie...
Hamilton was the favoured driver because although he hasn't won the championshipo multiple times yet and proved himself, is one of the best racing drivers ever to grace Formula 1. A lot of haters will probably scoff at that statement but after he's been retired for a while he will certainly be looked back on as one of the Formula 1 greats.
EPT
