EPTI know there is already one (small) roguelike thread on TL. But I wrote up this huge diatribe on Roguelikes and I thought some of you might be interested. If any one is interested in the genre, this OP should help you familiarize yourself with the genre a bit before jumping in.
If you're not familiar with Roguelikes, imagine a turn based Diablo with a lot more strategy and a lot more sandboxiness to it. They also traditionally use ASCII graphics, which basically means they are an eyesore and unplayable for most normal humans.
Oh, also, most rogue likes are completely free!
After playing a fair bit of the excellent "100 Rogues" for Iphone, I have begun experimenting with the genre. 100 Rogues, for those interested, is a 'lite' roguelike. Simple and arcadey, missing most of the 'simulation' elements I have observed in other examples of the genre. It also has really nice animations and graphics, the best of any rogue like I have seen by far.
![[image loading]](http://toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/011870.jpg)
A screenshot of 100 rogues. As far as graphics and animations, this is the best Rogue-like I have seen.
If you have an Iphone or Ipod touch, I highly recommend it both as a game and as an introduction to rogue likes. Even if you're not interested in the genre it's probably worth checking out just by virtue of its excellence.
To be clear, I am no expert on Rogue-likes, but this is intended to be a crash course on the basics of the genre for those interested. These are the impressions and thoughts I have gathered after about two days of messing with 'classic roguelikes.'
I think playing these games has increased my geek cred pretty substantially. I am now an "unfuckable dork." which is pretty sweet!
I was always reticent to play these games because the ASCII graphics were such a turn off. Luckily there are now a variety of tile sets available for the major ones. These look pretty nice, still no animations or any thing, but overall they are very playable and attractive. Much friendlier to new players than the daunting ASCII symbols (and also more attractive.)
The different roguelikes have different tilesets available, but here's a good example of what one looks like:
![[image loading]](http://crawl.dessgeega.com/2-1.png)
This is the default tileset for Stone Soup (I hope they don't mind me hotlinking.)
As far as I can tell, there are two major rogue likes which people still actually play. And of course, players of one distrust and revile players of the other. They both share the same basic goal, complete the dungeon and then make it back to the beginning.
In either game, if you die once, it's over, the dungeons are huge and it is basically expected that you will die without completing the game. Beating either game is extremely rare even for seasoned veterans.
I like this style of game a lot, if has the fun and interest of grinding up Diablo style, but there's no sense of "well this doesn't really matter because I am just grinding and I'll win eventually no matter what even if I die."
Every potion, helmet, wand, belt, or whatever else you find is valuable (or useless) because it will help you descend further in to the dungeon. Your decisions feel more weighty.
Before we get started here is a non-spoilery pro-tip for either game:
If you get stuck and can't find where to go; use the search command on walls and floors (especially ones close to blank space) for secret doors. Make sure the stairs down aren't hidden by an item on the ground as well.
Nethack:
Warning: Very minor spoilers ahead
Nethack is a dungeon crawler but it's also almost like a simulation. In addition to exploring the dungeon and killing monsters, you can also do... just about any thing else.
![[image loading]](http://www.retrobits.net/gp32/images/nethack03.png)
A screenshot of the 16-bit tile set in Nethack. There is also a 32-bit one which looks a fair bit nicer but I can't find a screen shot. There is also an isometric tileset view which looks very nice but in my experience is unplayable.
Wield a metal helmet as a weapon... put a towel on your head (which obscures your vision.) I haven't checked, but I bet you can set the towel on fire, and even kill yourself with it.It wouldn't even surprise me if you could dip it in a fountain and then whip monsters with it! I haven't checked that myself though.
You can find monster eggs which will hatch in to monsters from your backpack. You can combine items to create all kinds of things, set a magnesium wand on fire to make thermite! Drop it on the ground and it will burn a hole to the next floor.
There's SO much stuff like this to discover in the game it's really remarkable. I can't even begin to scratch the surface of all of the neat stuff you can do / can happen. WOW!
The motto here is "The developers think of every thing."
The game is very slow paced, it's not uncommon for adventurers to return to previous levels quite often, farming up on low level mobs is often a smart idea.
Players like Nethack because of the amazing freedom that it offers, and because the game is totally uninterested in you. Players say "Nethack doesn't care if you live or die." Players criticize it for relying heavily on little tricks or in jokes in order to progress. There are so many 'simulation tricks' it can be very daunting for a new player.
It's not uncommon for something simple like putting a necklace on to simply kill you outright! (Oops, it was a necklace of strangulation.)
This is a big part of the games charm as well, as unexpected things can always happen and there's all kinds of neat stuff to experiment with and to try.
Of course, this also means there are a TON of commands. There is a command on almost every key, some with two. For instance "c" and "C" do entirely different things. It's important to use basically all of the commands to really kick ass. (So be ready to reference your hotkey guide regularly when you are starting.)
Also: You start the game with a kitten! (or other pet) It eats monsters and does funny things which will make you laugh. It also fights, and of course; you can feed it treats to increase its loyalty, if you abandon it it will become disloyal, if you starve it, it can become hostile etc...
You can find other pets too, all kinds of crazy things.
Nethack has (relatively) simple dungeons with generally one staircase leading down to the next level.It has a very attractive 32 bit tile set and another very nice 16 bit tileset. I can't provide any screenshots but trust me, it looks palatable.
Nethack is an ongoing project created by many contributors. That is, as I understand it, how they are able to cram SO much diversity in to every facet of the game. They still update and add to it occasionally.
You can download nethack here
http://www.nethack.org/v343/ports/download-win.h
For beginners like me; I recommend downloading the 16bit or 32 bit tile set and running the NethackW mode.
There is also a great nethack port for Iphone/Ipod Touch (it's called "Nethack" and I recommend playing with the 16-bit sprites.) I played it for several hours last night and became very attached to my "little wizard" until he was cornered by some apemen.
His ferocious kitten chose that moment to wander off, leaving me to fend for myself, and I was quickly dispatched by their flailing limbs.
Of course, I had a staff of teleport which might have saved me if I had remembered to use it...
Next time, I suppose.
Dungeon Crawler (Stone Soup):
Stone Soup is a leaner offering overall.
However, there are more races and a more advanced targeting system. the tile sets available are arguably a bit nicer.The overall gameplay is simpler than Nethack, there are far fewer 'tricks' and being killed by cursed items is much rarer.
![[image loading]](http://crawl.dessgeega.com/4-2.png)
Another screenshot from the default Tileset on Stone Soup
The game is more combat oriented, and generally considered to be more difficult (although beginners will be dropping like flies in either game.)There are far less rewards for dilly-dallying, in fact, characters that descend too slowly will probably starve to death. This means constant progress is rewarded.
The combat focus, and simplified mechanics make this one more similar to 100 Rogues than Nethack is. (although it is still vastly more robust and complex)
Players say they like Stone Soup because it is simple and to the point, it doesn't rely on excessive trial and error in order to learn what works and what doesn't. It is more straightforward, there are far less commands to learn.
The dungeons in Stonesoup are much more complicated, often having multiple pathways and several staircases leading down. The floors, especially early on, are much bigger and much more hostile.
You get to level up your stats as well, which Nethack doesn't have (although in Nethack you can level up your 'skills" instead so...)
It also has an auto-explore command, which causes your character to wander around until he finds something interesting. This is really convenient and is missed in Nethack.
Dungeon Crawler also has a bunch of different religions and gods that you can switch to. Nethack has gods/religion too, but from what I can tell Stone Soup takes this aspect of the game a bit more seriously and it seems to have more of an effect.
Dungeon Crawler is 'done' and hasn't been updated for some time. The creators consider the game complete. (Or at least, it used to be, apparently they are working on an update again.)
You do not start the game with a kitten, although there are various ways you can train other monsters you find to be your pets.
You can download stone soup here:
http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/
You can also play the ASCII version online here:
http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto
That has some cool advantages but you can't use tilesets yet!
Here is a neat walkthrough of Stone Soup to help new players get acclimated to the idea of the game
http://crawl.dessgeega.com/page1.html
There is also a really great tutorial included in Stone Soup, something which Nethack doesn't have.
So which one is better
Well it's hard to say. Personally, I respect the idea of Stone Soup a bit more, it forces you to constantly press on and relies more heavily on strategy / decision making.
However, Nethack really has a lot of appeal, there is something really cool about all of the varied options it presents you, all of the unique things that can happen, but the commands are really daunting.
Overall, I would have to go with Nethack, but I should note that, due to the excellent Iphone port, I have played a lot more Nethack and understand it much better.
I hope this helps any one interested in the genre learn what they are getting in to and finding the right game for them.
Crab, out.
I find most graphical tilesets to be completely unusable, ascii tilesets are really not that hard to understand.
![[image loading]](http://www.rpgdreamers.com/rpgworld/azure/azure2.jpg)
