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Pretty sure this stuff in this "Hon 2.0" was in the making long before Dota 2 was announced, making the theory "its a response to Dota 2" completely wrong.
I don't know why people who don't know anything about a subject insist on discussing it without educating themselves but I suppose that's just a part of the human condition.
Personally, I think the changes are interesting but I am not a big fan of removing EM completely. However, I can see why, as casual AND EM would split the EM community and result in even more niches.
As for matchmaking being unsuccessful, I imagine that with TMM many more people will play now that they can play with their friends in a MM game. HON/DOTA is a thousand times more enjoyable when you have friends to play with, which is something most of the people complaining about BM lack.
This is not an insult, simply a fact. Playing a game like HON from scratch as a huge, lonely, noob is a nightmare. You need friends for this game to be fun. Even at "higher" levels, playing solo is often a crapshoot.
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Dota/hon is like dodge ball. "YOU GOTTA GET ANGRY, YOU GOTTA GET MEEAANN"
If u got no killer instinct (you dont care if you win or lose as long as u had fun yada yada yada) then this game isnt for you. BM is healthy to a certain degree. Like Idra said sometime ago that getting angry when you lose is just competitive spirit.
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On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
I read this and immediately thought HoN 2.0 will suck. Sounds more like LoL 2.0 then. Well casual mode will suck at least, not necessarily HoN 2.0 as a whole. But I think denying was one of the core fundamentals to early parts of a game. Removing the benefits of denying by such a large extent really kills incentives to deny. But I understand why they would implement this since denying and lane control is what truly separates the good from the bad, but 100% exp gain? Make it like 75% or something(I'm not even sure about the current deny exp lost).
-Interactive Minimaps
You may now hover over a dot on the minimap to see the unit's name, life points and mana points. If it's a hero, the inventory slot will also be displayed.
Sounds like a cute gimmick, if you really want to know the state of allies, you would click on that specific spot or look at the party interface on the top left. Not trying to aim for a little dot.
-HoN will be releasing a map editor for the HoN modding community. A lot of players will be expecting popular Warcraft 3 custom maps like Tower Defense, Fufu Ninja, RPGs and other Dota-type maps.
I coulda sworn they had this already. Guess not. I just hope SC2's modding community really picks up and shines to the level of creativity and performance that WC3 had. It seems fairly simplistic and unoptimized at the moment, but I can't complain. I'm not a map maker.
They should hurry up and nerf Maraxus already. 1000 range axes is a bit too much.
I played hon throughout the full beta and i have to say that at first it won me over but by the end of the beta i could forsee it turning into a pile of rubbish and this confirms it to me .. Denying i would say was the single thing that puts the most skill into Defence of the ancients! I felt like there was certain heros that you needed to stop reaching key "levels" melee heros.. It wasn't all about the "money" from said kill ... what about solo lanes this single feature made a solo lane fight so important because if you could hold your own you potentially could get a huge gain for your team vs 2 hero's .. "
I also didn't mention the "risk" for making sure enemys dont deny too much you would have to play more aggresive which in turn makes the game a lot more "open" i feel but each to there own !
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 03 2010 15:12 BritishBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
I read this and immediately thought HoN 2.0 will suck. Sounds more like LoL 2.0 then. Well casual mode will suck at least, not necessarily HoN 2.0 as a whole. But I think denying was one of the core fundamentals to early parts of a game. Removing the benefits of denying by such a large extent really kills incentives to deny. But I understand why they would implement this since denying and lane control is what truly separates the good from the bad, but 100% exp gain? Make it like 75% or something(I'm not even sure about the current deny exp lost).
-Interactive Minimaps
You may now hover over a dot on the minimap to see the unit's name, life points and mana points. If it's a hero, the inventory slot will also be displayed.
Sounds like a cute gimmick, if you really want to know the state of allies, you would click on that specific spot or look at the party interface on the top left. Not trying to aim for a little dot.
-HoN will be releasing a map editor for the HoN modding community. A lot of players will be expecting popular Warcraft 3 custom maps like Tower Defense, Fufu Ninja, RPGs and other Dota-type maps.
I coulda sworn they had this already. Guess not. I just hope SC2's modding community really picks up and shines to the level of creativity and performance that WC3 had. It seems fairly simplistic and unoptimized at the moment, but I can't complain. I'm not a map maker.
They should hurry up and nerf Maraxus already. 1000 range axes is a bit too much.
I played hon throughout the full beta and i have to say that at first it won me over but by the end of the beta i could forsee it turning into a pile of rubbish and this confirms it to me .. Denying i would say was the single thing that puts the most skill into Defence of the ancients! I felt like there was certain heros that you needed to stop reaching key "levels" melee heros.. It wasn't all about the "money" from said kill ... what about solo lanes this single feature made a solo lane fight so important because if you could hold your own you potentially could get a huge gain for your team vs 2 hero's .. " I also didn't mention the "risk" for making sure enemys dont deny too much you would have to play more aggresive which in turn makes the game a lot more "open" i feel but each to there own !
The change to denying is casual mode only, no need to worry about that 
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I think this is interesting, and I am glad they are improving this.... but honestly since HoN's beta the game has just gone further and further down hill.
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On December 03 2010 15:12 BritishBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
I read this and immediately thought HoN 2.0 will suck. Sounds more like LoL 2.0 then. Well casual mode will suck at least, not necessarily HoN 2.0 as a whole. But I think denying was one of the core fundamentals to early parts of a game. Removing the benefits of denying by such a large extent really kills incentives to deny. But I understand why they would implement this since denying and lane control is what truly separates the good from the bad, but 100% exp gain? Make it like 75% or something(I'm not even sure about the current deny exp lost).
-Interactive Minimaps
You may now hover over a dot on the minimap to see the unit's name, life points and mana points. If it's a hero, the inventory slot will also be displayed.
Sounds like a cute gimmick, if you really want to know the state of allies, you would click on that specific spot or look at the party interface on the top left. Not trying to aim for a little dot.
-HoN will be releasing a map editor for the HoN modding community. A lot of players will be expecting popular Warcraft 3 custom maps like Tower Defense, Fufu Ninja, RPGs and other Dota-type maps.
I coulda sworn they had this already. Guess not. I just hope SC2's modding community really picks up and shines to the level of creativity and performance that WC3 had. It seems fairly simplistic and unoptimized at the moment, but I can't complain. I'm not a map maker.
They should hurry up and nerf Maraxus already. 1000 range axes is a bit too much.
I played hon throughout the full beta and i have to say that at first it won me over but by the end of the beta i could forsee it turning into a pile of rubbish and this confirms it to me .. Denying i would say was the single thing that puts the most skill into Defence of the ancients! I felt like there was certain heros that you needed to stop reaching key "levels" melee heros.. It wasn't all about the "money" from said kill ... what about solo lanes this single feature made a solo lane fight so important because if you could hold your own you potentially could get a huge gain for your team vs 2 hero's .. " I also didn't mention the "risk" for making sure enemys dont deny too much you would have to play more aggresive which in turn makes the game a lot more "open" i feel but each to there own !
it's like you guys purposely don't read the whole article about hon 2.0 or something.
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On December 03 2010 15:09 Entertaining wrote:
Dota/hon is like dodge ball. "YOU GOTTA GET ANGRY, YOU GOTTA GET MEEAANN"
If u got no killer instinct (you dont care if you win or lose as long as u had fun yada yada yada) then this game isnt for you. BM is healthy to a certain degree. Like Idra said sometime ago that getting angry when you lose is just competitive spirit.
Except that people in HoN won't get angry over losing. They get angry over losing, winning, joining, leaving, language, smileys, typing, not typing, clicking, not clicking, your name, their name, the date, the current time, the weather and basically everything else too.
There's BM that's understandable, e.g. your team losing because someone messed up. It's still not ok, but I can see why people get mad then. In HoN your team will be flaming and insulting each other before the actual combat has started for no apparent reason, and it'll continue for the rest of the game.
But there's nothing else to expect when catering to the uber nerd hardcore crowd and having a staff that will happily rage along. The final straw that made me not buy the game when the Beta ended was how a staff member made fun of players in the forums that had a legitimate issue. Way to go for professionals.
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On December 03 2010 07:26 myopia wrote:
The modding and map making part would sound a lot cooler had DotA 2 not announced that feature a month ago.
announced? HoN announced theyd be in there ages ago, but its coming on the 13th dec; when will DotA 2 have them?
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I'll be more impressed with hon when they finish the dota ports, instead of coming up with their own dumb heroes, that are incredibly OP, and have to be nurfed later. I'm all for adding new heroes when every hero is ported(except techies f u), but there's a TON that could be ported. Just seems like HoN is trying to reinvent the wheel just for the sake of saying "Look, we have our own heroes we're not the same as dota"
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casual mode... lol
i think S2 can do more to better their game than this stuff
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On December 03 2010 17:19 bjwithbraces wrote:
I'll be more impressed with hon when they finish the dota ports, instead of coming up with their own dumb heroes, that are incredibly OP, and have to be nurfed later. I'm all for adding new heroes when every hero is ported(except techies f u), but there's a TON that could be ported. Just seems like HoN is trying to reinvent the wheel just for the sake of saying "Look, we have our own heroes we're not the same as dota"
Well it does cost them some decent money to create each hero.. not sure why they didn't port some. Either way I think with dota 2/icefrog threatening lawsuits they said they won't be porting anymore heroes probably. So I think it's something kind of out of their hands.
tbh though I dislike pretty much every S2 hero / ability besides malikens sword throw, which is pretty neat / skilled (could be faster)
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Not playing a game because people ''BM'' you, this is just getting sad. I mean, I totally understand that the DotA/LoL/HoN communities are trash, but so what. It is unbelievable the amount of people that whine about these games because of the communities, I maen so what if youre teammate is trashtalking you in game.
Moba games are team games where everyone on the team wants to be the best, yes the community is bad, but its just part the game genre. You can be the noobest player, it still is gonna piss you off if youre having a super good game, playing perfectly, and your teammate goes 0-11 and is the reason you lose the game. Sure you could just take it, but its the internet, and some people just dont.
In any case, it seems like HoN 2.0 is just everthing they have promised for a certain time in one big package. Its been a while but its cool to know that theyre staying true to what they said.
HoN always had its problem finding his place, no matter how good the game is (or how good it could be), you still have the bitter competitive vets that do not want to switch from Dota (you can give me all you want about HoNs balance, but really, its time to go to something else, I guess now that Dota 2.0 is coming they might have a reason to sticking though, well see how that goes). On the other side you have all the casual gamers who cant go over the learning curve of HoN and so they decide to play LoL. Im not saying that LoL is a bad game, I just find the concept lacking a bit, but working due to how easy it is to get into.
I see that the ''casual mode'' is probably aimed at that last situation, im still not so sure how well its going to work.
(On the Maliken discussion, the guy is pretty BM, yes, but if you actually play more then 1 game with him or have a chat youll see that hes not really being serious....most of the time)
Anyways, this all seems great, hope theyre gonna pick it up.
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On December 03 2010 11:04 Senx wrote:
I guess S2 games are getting desperate, they realize their product doesn't really fill its own niche as LoL and Dota does, its simply a remake of dota that very few will care for when the real deal: dota 2 comes out.
When dota 2 comes out, in 2 years. Hah. For me HoN is the best AoS type game out there.
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2TurpinOS:
I get your point about BM but people can be still little bit nicer and not so trash talking. I finished my 10th trial game and he told my mum is fuck just because i didnt gave him my hero. I was like WTF do I really want to play this game ?
Solution is so easy: Be nice guys. Dont take it so seriously.
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On December 04 2010 01:41 TurpinOS wrote:
Not playing a game because people ''BM'' you, this is just getting sad. I mean, I totally understand that the DotA/LoL/HoN communities are trash, but so what. It is unbelievable the amount of people that whine about these games because of the communities, I maen so what if youre teammate is trashtalking you in game.
.....
(On the Maliken discussion, the guy is pretty BM, yes, but if you actually play more then 1 game with him or have a chat youll see that hes not really being serious....most of the time)
I think the community play a pretty big factor in the game, esp when you're just starting out. Honestly I played a good bunch of dota and LoL and I can hardly remember a single game where a stranger is helping a random guy who's just starting the game. Also having to learn the abilities of 30+ heroes, items, etc when starting out is pretty daunting. When I first started out in DotA, it was pretty fun because most heroes' abilities were pretty unique, but it's really a pain when I tried out HoN and LoL and all the item names are swapped.
I started out DotA with friends so it was pretty easy for me to get into, but for LoL, I literally muted/ignored every person who talked shit or was telling me how to play.
lol I don't think I can take any game seriously where the GM/CEO spam "nigger" in games. I mean shouldn't you be trying to promote the product/community instead of perpetuating the typical MOBA gamer attitude?
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legitimate and illegitimate complaints sound the same to the uninformed ear D:
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On December 03 2010 17:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 07:26 myopia wrote:
The modding and map making part would sound a lot cooler had DotA 2 not announced that feature a month ago. announced? HoN announced theyd be in there ages ago, but its coming on the 13th dec; when will DotA 2 have them?
they were promising all that garbage back in the Beta lmao, now see how long it took them, you think its a GOOD thing it took them this long? alright. and TBH, to the real DotA fan's, a map making feature is effectively useless, i love the DotA map, and i don't want it to change, nor do i want to play on other map's like the terrible 3v3 maps in LoL and HoN.
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I'm a bit surprised to see other people having bad experiences in LoL too? But yeah I literally have not met one raquitter / BMer yet. And if they did leave it seemed to be a computer problem or incident, where they would log back in in a few minutes.
Perhaps this is because I didn't get to level 20 or something yet and start laddering? I've been playing matchmaking with friends usually, but yes I have not seen any trash talk yet. I've probably only played a total of 15 hours though. But still no BM over 30 or so games is like beyond believable considering how DotA/HoN are.
Oh yeah at the guy that commented how DotA and HoN were the about the same, I do agree with that, however with DotA if you make a custom game on Bnet and call it "noobs only", there is a good chance (and by this i mean like 25% lol) where everyone will be nice ( although not always noobs, but everyone knows that "noobs only" signifies "nice people only"  ).
@Maliken being the company's owner... WOW, really? WTF
Ok seriously shutting down the server and stuff like that... hello does he care about the fans/customers? If not for hearing this I might have felt a little bad for HoN, but now I'm against HoN more than ever o.o
@the guy who said DotA/LoL/HoN have big learning curve;
I think you should try LoL then at least going to DotA/HoN, the community is much better (according to my experiences at least). If not, then at least the lower level games are significantly nicer than DotA/HoN where noobs only games will often have some good player that just wants to own noobs and also trashtalks/talks down to them.
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On December 04 2010 05:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:I'm a bit surprised to see other people having bad experiences in LoL too? But yeah I literally have not met one raquitter / BMer yet. And if they did leave it seemed to be a computer problem or incident, where they would log back in in a few minutes. Perhaps this is because I didn't get to level 20 or something yet and start laddering? I've been playing matchmaking with friends usually, but yes I have not seen any trash talk yet. I've probably only played a total of 15 hours though. But still no BM over 30 or so games is like beyond believable considering how DotA/HoN are. Oh yeah at the guy that commented how DotA and HoN were the about the same, I do agree with that, however with DotA if you make a custom game on Bnet and call it "noobs only", there is a good chance (and by this i mean like 25% lol) where everyone will be nice ( although not always noobs, but everyone knows that "noobs only" signifies "nice people only" ). @Maliken being the company's owner... WOW, really? WTF Ok seriously shutting down the server and stuff like that... hello does he care about the fans/customers? If not for hearing this I might have felt a little bad for HoN, but now I'm against HoN more than ever o.o @the guy who said DotA/LoL/HoN have big learning curve; I think you should try LoL then at least going to DotA/HoN, the community is much better (according to my experiences at least). If not, then at least the lower level games are significantly nicer than DotA/HoN where noobs only games will often have some good player that just wants to own noobs and also trashtalks/talks down to them.
I play alot of LoL, let me tell you that LoL's community rivals HoN's in BM.
Edit: Especially because making a smurf account is free and easy.
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From my experiences with both games I feel like what really separates the LoL/HoN communities is that everyone uses the matchmaking in LoL.
When people start in LoL your matchmaking rating is really low and you're forced matched against people who are really bad, and you have to play a good 200 games or so before you can even play ranked matches.
In Hon you jump into your first game with your 1500 psr, a rating where the game expects you to know what your doing, then you get flamed to hell for being bad your first game ever. Additionally the manual matchmaking everyone uses means those games you jump into are going to have a pretty random average skill level.
Finally, HoN isnt free, almost everyone playing it knows what it is and what they're doing, there is no huge pool of people who have no idea how to play at all like there is in Lol.
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EPT
