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dotamaster
104 Posts
It seems to be taking a shot at SC2 Bnet 2.0 and League of Legends. Changes: Casual Mode 3v3 map Improved User Interface Custom Shop Map Editor Sneak Peek sources: http://www.neutralcreeps.com/2010/12/heroes-of-newerth-20-sneak-peek.html http://worthplaying.com/article/2010/12/2/previews/78586/ Question and Answer by Red Jedi on HoN 2.0: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=187783 | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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Gamerah
United States85 Posts
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience. I read this and immediately thought HoN 2.0 will suck. Sounds more like LoL 2.0 then. Well casual mode will suck at least, not necessarily HoN 2.0 as a whole. But I think denying was one of the core fundamentals to early parts of a game. Removing the benefits of denying by such a large extent really kills incentives to deny. But I understand why they would implement this since denying and lane control is what truly separates the good from the bad, but 100% exp gain? Make it like 75% or something(I'm not even sure about the current deny exp lost). -Interactive Minimaps You may now hover over a dot on the minimap to see the unit's name, life points and mana points. If it's a hero, the inventory slot will also be displayed. Sounds like a cute gimmick, if you really want to know the state of allies, you would click on that specific spot or look at the party interface on the top left. Not trying to aim for a little dot. -HoN will be releasing a map editor for the HoN modding community. A lot of players will be expecting popular Warcraft 3 custom maps like Tower Defense, Fufu Ninja, RPGs and other Dota-type maps. I coulda sworn they had this already. Guess not. I just hope SC2's modding community really picks up and shines to the level of creativity and performance that WC3 had. It seems fairly simplistic and unoptimized at the moment, but I can't complain. I'm not a map maker. They should hurry up and nerf Maraxus already. 1000 range axes is a bit too much. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
I played HoN until the beta ended and decided not to buy a full account. Despite the game being the pinnacle of the Dota-genre, its community was downright atrocious and I have never before in any game encountered that much BM. I do not know how it has developed since, but the target demographic didn't change until now, so I assume it stayed pretty much the same. Am I wrong? Any active players that can update me there? Opening the game to casuals might actually improve the situation, create an influx of new players which is always good and may especially balance the community a bit toward less hardcore, less elitist. | ||
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
I have never before in any game encountered that much BM. I do not know how it has developed since, but the target demographic didn't change until now, so I assume it stayed pretty much the same. Am I wrong? Any active players that can update me there? If you encountered BM, chances are you played really really bad or the BMing person was really really bad. In either case, because its a team game, BM is going to be a huge part of it, because the outcome depends on other people as well as you. So unless you have a team that's ready to listen to you and play to win, HoN can be a very frustrating experience. | ||
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Glasse
Canada1237 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:16 Shockk wrote: I have never before in any game encountered that much BM. i suggest that you go out of your little starcraft cocoon where everything is considered bm and play different games. HoN "bm" is nothing fyi. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:35 Sadistx wrote: ... because its a team game, BM is going to be a huge part of it ... On December 03 2010 07:41 Glasse wrote: i suggest that you go out of your little starcraft cocoon where everything is considered bm and play different games. HoN "bm" is nothing fyi. I guess those two responses give me a better answer to my question than any direct statement could have done. Thanks for that. | ||
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oN_Silva
197 Posts
much bm, I myself like to flame (mostly defensivly) but nontheless if I got once in a fight I wont let go so easy.. its a real problem for me... but well iam not the average, i have 3x the concede votes than actually games lost xD anyway game itself is cool. Many things will make you rage though. | ||
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Xife
222 Posts
One of the GM's, I can't recall his name, would call me a nigger every time I killed him and would eventually shut down the server after multiple times of me destroying his face. | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On December 03 2010 08:11 Xife wrote: Yeah the community is pretty bad for HoN, but I remember playing Savage 2 in beta and the S2 crew were not any better. One of the GM's, I can't recall his name, would call me a nigger every time I killed him and would eventually shut down the server after multiple times of me destroying his face. That's probably Maliken. He calls people niggers in HoN too  | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
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ToxNub
Canada805 Posts
People exploit so much about it. For example, randoming a hero, then leaving if they don't like the one they got. Not to mention there's like a 50% probability someone drops on the loading screen and fucking up teams. | ||
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Silversurfer
United States44 Posts
Love the MMO aspect of it vs HoN, but had heard so many good things about HoN that I bought it anyway. Shouldn't have bothered, dunno what kind of crack I was smoking as I hate ragers enough in SC2 and LoL as it is. Most games are 5v5 (yes I'm well aware it's designed for that) but figured I'd be able to do some solo action. For all the effort it would take to be good at the game, I'll stick with SC2 and LoL for when I need change of pace. | ||
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Glasse
Canada1237 Posts
On December 03 2010 08:35 ToxNub wrote: Well, Blizz needs a serious system to improve games like Sotis. People exploit so much about it. For example, randoming a hero, then leaving if they don't like the one they got. Not to mention there's like a 50% probability someone drops on the loading screen and fucking up teams. the only way to improve games like sotis is ban sotis from bnet that map is so horrible | ||
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ImHuko
United States996 Posts
Sounds awesome, I might have to get back into HoN, paid 30$ for it and then really never played it! | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote: -Creeps and Experience Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience. I read this and immediately thought HoN 2.0 will suck. Sounds more like LoL 2.0 then. Well casual mode will suck at least, not necessarily HoN 2.0 as a whole. But I think denying was one of the core fundamentals to early parts of a game. Removing the benefits of denying by such a large extent really kills incentives to deny. But I understand why they would implement this since denying and lane control is what truly separates the good from the bad, but 100% exp gain? Make it like 75% or something(I'm not even sure about the current deny exp lost). They're replacing easy mode with casual mode, which aims to do what easy mode did already except better, instead of just watering down the numbers and giving more money. It's not going to affect normal gameplay at all, unless you play easy mode already. Edit: Also glad the skins and such they're adding don't actually affect gameplay like new heroes in LoL (aka they're more of "just a bonus") and that they'll be able to be earned through the game and not just microtransactions | ||
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Xife
222 Posts
On December 03 2010 08:14 Shade692003 wrote: That's probably Maliken. He calls people niggers in HoN too Yep, that'd be him. It was humorous how upset he would get after every death. Kinda shocked he still has a job... Okay not really. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
haven't they learned from LoL that you cant balance a 3v3 and a 5v5 map at the same time? | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
On December 03 2010 08:11 Xife wrote: Yeah the community is pretty bad for HoN, but I remember playing Savage 2 in beta and the S2 crew were not any better. One of the GM's, I can't recall his name, would call me a nigger every time I killed him and would eventually shut down the server after multiple times of me destroying his face. Yeah, Maliken would always shut down the server whenever his team was losing in Savage 2. He's the head of the company too, not a GM. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
EDIT: also, why isn't this in the HoN topic? | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
it definitely is not "aiming at bnet 2.0" | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On December 03 2010 09:31 Zelniq wrote: hon's server/online system/interface is like 10x better than bnet 2.0, this is widely accepted it definitely is not "aiming at bnet 2.0" This is certainly true. I do get the impression though that they might be branching out and perhaps trying to tap some of the other audiences however, with map editors and customization and such (well, universal custimization, mods already made local customization insanely flexible). Awesome decision imo, as long as they leave the basics and normal mode stuff untouched, which they seem to be pretty keen upon. Excited for 2.0 | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On December 03 2010 09:23 Frolossus wrote: a 3v3 map and an improved shop? haven't they learned from LoL that you cant balance a 3v3 and a 5v5 map at the same time? Exactly what I was thinking... different team sizes are impossible to balance, it just doesn't work. | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
There are some nice features like team matchmaking that S2 shoulda released a long time ago, but other stuff is wtf. | ||
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Xife
222 Posts
On December 03 2010 09:23 ShadowDrgn wrote: Yeah, Maliken would always shut down the server whenever his team was losing in Savage 2. He's the head of the company too, not a GM. I guess that is why he has not been fired yet  | ||
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yoplate
United States332 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
The learning curve is incredibly steep and people jump all over your throat for every small mistake you do. I'd much rather play sc2, where if I screw up, it's just me who loses. The whole solo dynamic makes it less discouraging to keep trying to get better. And what I hate is when you know that the game is an inevitable loss and you can't just "gg" out and leave because you'll be branded a quitter. I know HoN has the whole concede thing but people just don't want to sometimes, it becomes incredibly annoying and tedious to waste away minutes playing a game that I know I've already lost. In sc2 at least, when you figure you have no hope of coming back, you can "gg" out and move on. No being forced to labor through 30+ mins because your teammates don't want to concede and your opponents want to max out levels and items before crushing you. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
This 2.0 stuff is generally pretty sweet. 100% experience on denies is an absolutely horrible decision though. Why even deny? Bad move S2, catering to casuals. I'm still looking forward to it though, HoN is such a sweet way to relax between laddering on sc2. | ||
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Durak
Canada3684 Posts
On December 03 2010 10:33 Meta wrote:This 2.0 stuff is generally pretty sweet. 100% experience on denies is an absolutely horrible decision though. Why even deny? Bad move S2, catering to casuals. I'm still looking forward to it though, HoN is such a sweet way to relax between laddering on sc2. That's for casual mode. That is NOT in regular play. | ||
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Farkinator
United States283 Posts
On December 03 2010 09:31 Zelniq wrote: hon's server/online system/interface is like 10x better than bnet 2.0, this is widely accepted it definitely is not "aiming at bnet 2.0" Everything's better about HoN's online system EXCEPT for its matchmaking. It literally takes 20 minutes to find a matchmade game. Hope they can improve that wait time. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On December 03 2010 10:49 Farkinator wrote: Everything's better about HoN's online system EXCEPT for its matchmaking. It literally takes 20 minutes to find a matchmade game. Hope they can improve that wait time. directly related to how many people use it as in, nobody uses it, so long wait times. not really a fault of s2, although i guess they can always offer extra psr or some shit for using that instead of custom games edit: oh wait, they still didn't implement team and partial team matchmaking did they? yeah, that's it. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10346 Posts
Last time I played the community was horrible, even worse than the DotA community. After reading about Maliken here... no wonder. BM staff, BM community. ugh on the other hand i have not met one ragequitter, leaver, or BM/elitist in LoL yet. Not as fun as DotA but i play it sometimes with my more casual friends because the community is so much nicer than HoN. Hopefully DotA 2 will be like DotA but with LoL's community | ||
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Durak
Canada3684 Posts
On December 03 2010 11:17 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Wow, so HoN will officially be less than 1 year old and still called 2.0? Or is this more just signifying ... significant changes, and not like Starcraft to Starcraft 2? Some significant changes. Nothing too major to gameplay. Not like BW to SC2. On December 03 2010 11:17 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Last time I played the community was horrible, even worse than the DotA community. After reading about Maliken here... no wonder. BM staff, BM community. Doubt it's worse than the dota community. Probably the same. On December 03 2010 11:17 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: on the other hand i have not met one ragequitter, leaver, or BM/elitist in LoL yet. Not as fun as DotA but i play it sometimes with my more casual friends because the community is so much nicer than HoN. Hopefully DotA 2 will be like DotA but with LoL's community LoL's community didn't seem any better to me. The only thing is, there's no ingame voice you don't have someone berate you. Also, if you play at high resolutions, it's easy to miss the text. | ||
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Silversurfer
United States44 Posts
On December 03 2010 11:17 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Wow, so HoN will officially be less than 1 year old and still called 2.0? Or is this more just signifying ... significant changes, and not like Starcraft to Starcraft 2? Last Time I played the community was horrible, even worse than the DotA community. After reading about Maliken here... no wonder. BM staff, BM community. ugh ON the other hand i have not met one ragequitter, leaver, or BM/elitist in LoL yet. Not as fun as DotA but i play it sometimes with my more casual friends because the community is so much nicer than HoN. Hopefully DotA 2 will be like DotA but with LoL's community You haven't met anyone who has a BM problem on Lol? Fuck I've been playing the game for 2 days and I'm already disgusted with it, people FLIP if you make the tiniest mistake. I played MMO's for years, sick of that crap, nor do I want to spend months learning the intracacies of yet another game. Too many hobbies as it is. Someone also made a good point about being able to leave when you want in games like SC2. Hell, I have almost as much fun watching SC2 replays. I think I've talked myself Into deleting both games from my hard drive. Another 6-700 points and I can join the few...the proud...the 2k diamonds. lol | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On December 03 2010 11:04 Senx wrote: I guess S2 games are getting desperate, they realize their product doesn't really fill its own niche as LoL and Dota does, its simply a remake of dota that very few will care for when the real deal: dota 2 comes out. ...You do know "Dota2" is simply a remake of Dota, right? | ||
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Minzy
Australia387 Posts
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TsoBadGuy
United States221 Posts
There is nothing wrong with a fun game that doesn't really take that long to learn. Hon could be a very very fun game. However, when such a crappy attitude becomes common place, I would rather just avoid it altogether. Mark my words, in casual mode, people will still talk down to you. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On December 03 2010 11:31 Silversurfer wrote: You haven't met anyone who has a BM problem on Lol? Fuck I've been playing the game for 2 days and I'm already disgusted with it, people FLIP if you make the tiniest mistake. I played MMO's for years, sick of that crap, nor do I want to spend months learning the intracacies of yet another game. Too many hobbies as it is. Someone also made a good point about being able to leave when you want in games like SC2. Early on you need a lot of BM players in LoL, after you get to the higher levels and better elos, there's pretty much no total idiots at all and even though there's some bmers, it's incredibly mild. On December 03 2010 13:46 Shade692003 wrote: Exactly, why would anyone care about an inferior remake?...You do know "Dota2" is simply a remake of Dota, right? | ||
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Ganfei2
473 Posts
I don't know why people who don't know anything about a subject insist on discussing it without educating themselves but I suppose that's just a part of the human condition. Personally, I think the changes are interesting but I am not a big fan of removing EM completely. However, I can see why, as casual AND EM would split the EM community and result in even more niches. As for matchmaking being unsuccessful, I imagine that with TMM many more people will play now that they can play with their friends in a MM game. HON/DOTA is a thousand times more enjoyable when you have friends to play with, which is something most of the people complaining about BM lack. This is not an insult, simply a fact. Playing a game like HON from scratch as a huge, lonely, noob is a nightmare. You need friends for this game to be fun. Even at "higher" levels, playing solo is often a crapshoot. | ||
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
If u got no killer instinct (you dont care if you win or lose as long as u had fun yada yada yada) then this game isnt for you. BM is healthy to a certain degree. Like Idra said sometime ago that getting angry when you lose is just competitive spirit. | ||
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BritishBeef
United Kingdom372 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote: -Creeps and Experience Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience. I read this and immediately thought HoN 2.0 will suck. Sounds more like LoL 2.0 then. Well casual mode will suck at least, not necessarily HoN 2.0 as a whole. But I think denying was one of the core fundamentals to early parts of a game. Removing the benefits of denying by such a large extent really kills incentives to deny. But I understand why they would implement this since denying and lane control is what truly separates the good from the bad, but 100% exp gain? Make it like 75% or something(I'm not even sure about the current deny exp lost). -Interactive Minimaps You may now hover over a dot on the minimap to see the unit's name, life points and mana points. If it's a hero, the inventory slot will also be displayed. Sounds like a cute gimmick, if you really want to know the state of allies, you would click on that specific spot or look at the party interface on the top left. Not trying to aim for a little dot. -HoN will be releasing a map editor for the HoN modding community. A lot of players will be expecting popular Warcraft 3 custom maps like Tower Defense, Fufu Ninja, RPGs and other Dota-type maps. I coulda sworn they had this already. Guess not. I just hope SC2's modding community really picks up and shines to the level of creativity and performance that WC3 had. It seems fairly simplistic and unoptimized at the moment, but I can't complain. I'm not a map maker. They should hurry up and nerf Maraxus already. 1000 range axes is a bit too much. I played hon throughout the full beta and i have to say that at first it won me over but by the end of the beta i could forsee it turning into a pile of rubbish and this confirms it to me .. Denying i would say was the single thing that puts the most skill into Defence of the ancients! I felt like there was certain heros that you needed to stop reaching key "levels" melee heros.. It wasn't all about the "money" from said kill ... what about solo lanes this single feature made a solo lane fight so important because if you could hold your own you potentially could get a huge gain for your team vs 2 hero's .. " I also didn't mention the "risk" for making sure enemys dont deny too much you would have to play more aggresive which in turn makes the game a lot more "open" i feel but each to there own ! | ||
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ManButter
Canada38 Posts
On December 03 2010 15:12 BritishBeef wrote: I played hon throughout the full beta and i have to say that at first it won me over but by the end of the beta i could forsee it turning into a pile of rubbish and this confirms it to me .. Denying i would say was the single thing that puts the most skill into Defence of the ancients! I felt like there was certain heros that you needed to stop reaching key "levels" melee heros.. It wasn't all about the "money" from said kill ... what about solo lanes this single feature made a solo lane fight so important because if you could hold your own you potentially could get a huge gain for your team vs 2 hero's .. " I also didn't mention the "risk" for making sure enemys dont deny too much you would have to play more aggresive which in turn makes the game a lot more "open" i feel but each to there own ! The change to denying is casual mode only, no need to worry about that | ||
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On December 03 2010 15:12 BritishBeef wrote: I played hon throughout the full beta and i have to say that at first it won me over but by the end of the beta i could forsee it turning into a pile of rubbish and this confirms it to me .. Denying i would say was the single thing that puts the most skill into Defence of the ancients! I felt like there was certain heros that you needed to stop reaching key "levels" melee heros.. It wasn't all about the "money" from said kill ... what about solo lanes this single feature made a solo lane fight so important because if you could hold your own you potentially could get a huge gain for your team vs 2 hero's .. " I also didn't mention the "risk" for making sure enemys dont deny too much you would have to play more aggresive which in turn makes the game a lot more "open" i feel but each to there own ! it's like you guys purposely don't read the whole article about hon 2.0 or something. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On December 03 2010 15:09 Entertaining wrote: Dota/hon is like dodge ball. "YOU GOTTA GET ANGRY, YOU GOTTA GET MEEAANN" If u got no killer instinct (you dont care if you win or lose as long as u had fun yada yada yada) then this game isnt for you. BM is healthy to a certain degree. Like Idra said sometime ago that getting angry when you lose is just competitive spirit. Except that people in HoN won't get angry over losing. They get angry over losing, winning, joining, leaving, language, smileys, typing, not typing, clicking, not clicking, your name, their name, the date, the current time, the weather and basically everything else too. There's BM that's understandable, e.g. your team losing because someone messed up. It's still not ok, but I can see why people get mad then. In HoN your team will be flaming and insulting each other before the actual combat has started for no apparent reason, and it'll continue for the rest of the game. But there's nothing else to expect when catering to the uber nerd hardcore crowd and having a staff that will happily rage along. The final straw that made me not buy the game when the Beta ended was how a staff member made fun of players in the forums that had a legitimate issue. Way to go for professionals. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:26 myopia wrote: The modding and map making part would sound a lot cooler had DotA 2 not announced that feature a month ago. announced? HoN announced theyd be in there ages ago, but its coming on the 13th dec; when will DotA 2 have them? | ||
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bjwithbraces
United States549 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
i think S2 can do more to better their game than this stuff | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On December 03 2010 17:19 bjwithbraces wrote: I'll be more impressed with hon when they finish the dota ports, instead of coming up with their own dumb heroes, that are incredibly OP, and have to be nurfed later. I'm all for adding new heroes when every hero is ported(except techies f u), but there's a TON that could be ported. Just seems like HoN is trying to reinvent the wheel just for the sake of saying "Look, we have our own heroes we're not the same as dota" Well it does cost them some decent money to create each hero.. not sure why they didn't port some. Either way I think with dota 2/icefrog threatening lawsuits they said they won't be porting anymore heroes probably. So I think it's something kind of out of their hands. tbh though I dislike pretty much every S2 hero / ability besides malikens sword throw, which is pretty neat / skilled (could be faster) | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
Moba games are team games where everyone on the team wants to be the best, yes the community is bad, but its just part the game genre. You can be the noobest player, it still is gonna piss you off if youre having a super good game, playing perfectly, and your teammate goes 0-11 and is the reason you lose the game. Sure you could just take it, but its the internet, and some people just dont. In any case, it seems like HoN 2.0 is just everthing they have promised for a certain time in one big package. Its been a while but its cool to know that theyre staying true to what they said. HoN always had its problem finding his place, no matter how good the game is (or how good it could be), you still have the bitter competitive vets that do not want to switch from Dota (you can give me all you want about HoNs balance, but really, its time to go to something else, I guess now that Dota 2.0 is coming they might have a reason to sticking though, well see how that goes). On the other side you have all the casual gamers who cant go over the learning curve of HoN and so they decide to play LoL. Im not saying that LoL is a bad game, I just find the concept lacking a bit, but working due to how easy it is to get into. I see that the ''casual mode'' is probably aimed at that last situation, im still not so sure how well its going to work. (On the Maliken discussion, the guy is pretty BM, yes, but if you actually play more then 1 game with him or have a chat youll see that hes not really being serious....most of the time) Anyways, this all seems great, hope theyre gonna pick it up. | ||
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
On December 03 2010 11:04 Senx wrote: I guess S2 games are getting desperate, they realize their product doesn't really fill its own niche as LoL and Dota does, its simply a remake of dota that very few will care for when the real deal: dota 2 comes out. When dota 2 comes out, in 2 years. Hah. For me HoN is the best AoS type game out there. | ||
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NIIINO
Slovakia1320 Posts
I get your point about BM but people can be still little bit nicer and not so trash talking. I finished my 10th trial game and he told my mum is fuck just because i didnt gave him my hero. I was like WTF do I really want to play this game ? Solution is so easy: Be nice guys. Dont take it so seriously. | ||
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crazeman
664 Posts
On December 04 2010 01:41 TurpinOS wrote: Not playing a game because people ''BM'' you, this is just getting sad. I mean, I totally understand that the DotA/LoL/HoN communities are trash, but so what. It is unbelievable the amount of people that whine about these games because of the communities, I maen so what if youre teammate is trashtalking you in game. ..... (On the Maliken discussion, the guy is pretty BM, yes, but if you actually play more then 1 game with him or have a chat youll see that hes not really being serious....most of the time) I think the community play a pretty big factor in the game, esp when you're just starting out. Honestly I played a good bunch of dota and LoL and I can hardly remember a single game where a stranger is helping a random guy who's just starting the game. Also having to learn the abilities of 30+ heroes, items, etc when starting out is pretty daunting. When I first started out in DotA, it was pretty fun because most heroes' abilities were pretty unique, but it's really a pain when I tried out HoN and LoL and all the item names are swapped. I started out DotA with friends so it was pretty easy for me to get into, but for LoL, I literally muted/ignored every person who talked shit or was telling me how to play. lol I don't think I can take any game seriously where the GM/CEO spam "nigger" in games. I mean shouldn't you be trying to promote the product/community instead of perpetuating the typical MOBA gamer attitude? | ||
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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Minzy
Australia387 Posts
On December 03 2010 17:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote: announced? HoN announced theyd be in there ages ago, but its coming on the 13th dec; when will DotA 2 have them? they were promising all that garbage back in the Beta lmao, now see how long it took them, you think its a GOOD thing it took them this long? alright. and TBH, to the real DotA fan's, a map making feature is effectively useless, i love the DotA map, and i don't want it to change, nor do i want to play on other map's like the terrible 3v3 maps in LoL and HoN. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10346 Posts
Perhaps this is because I didn't get to level 20 or something yet and start laddering? I've been playing matchmaking with friends usually, but yes I have not seen any trash talk yet. I've probably only played a total of 15 hours though. But still no BM over 30 or so games is like beyond believable considering how DotA/HoN are. Oh yeah at the guy that commented how DotA and HoN were the about the same, I do agree with that, however with DotA if you make a custom game on Bnet and call it "noobs only", there is a good chance (and by this i mean like 25% lol) where everyone will be nice ( although not always noobs, but everyone knows that "noobs only" signifies "nice people only" ).@Maliken being the company's owner... WOW, really? WTF Ok seriously shutting down the server and stuff like that... hello does he care about the fans/customers? If not for hearing this I might have felt a little bad for HoN, but now I'm against HoN more than ever o.o @the guy who said DotA/LoL/HoN have big learning curve; I think you should try LoL then at least going to DotA/HoN, the community is much better (according to my experiences at least). If not, then at least the lower level games are significantly nicer than DotA/HoN where noobs only games will often have some good player that just wants to own noobs and also trashtalks/talks down to them. | ||
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
On December 04 2010 05:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I'm a bit surprised to see other people having bad experiences in LoL too? But yeah I literally have not met one raquitter / BMer yet. And if they did leave it seemed to be a computer problem or incident, where they would log back in in a few minutes. Perhaps this is because I didn't get to level 20 or something yet and start laddering? I've been playing matchmaking with friends usually, but yes I have not seen any trash talk yet. I've probably only played a total of 15 hours though. But still no BM over 30 or so games is like beyond believable considering how DotA/HoN are. Oh yeah at the guy that commented how DotA and HoN were the about the same, I do agree with that, however with DotA if you make a custom game on Bnet and call it "noobs only", there is a good chance (and by this i mean like 25% lol) where everyone will be nice ( although not always noobs, but everyone knows that "noobs only" signifies "nice people only" ).@Maliken being the company's owner... WOW, really? WTF Ok seriously shutting down the server and stuff like that... hello does he care about the fans/customers? If not for hearing this I might have felt a little bad for HoN, but now I'm against HoN more than ever o.o @the guy who said DotA/LoL/HoN have big learning curve; I think you should try LoL then at least going to DotA/HoN, the community is much better (according to my experiences at least). If not, then at least the lower level games are significantly nicer than DotA/HoN where noobs only games will often have some good player that just wants to own noobs and also trashtalks/talks down to them. I play alot of LoL, let me tell you that LoL's community rivals HoN's in BM. Edit: Especially because making a smurf account is free and easy. | ||
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Fatmatt2000
United States159 Posts
When people start in LoL your matchmaking rating is really low and you're forced matched against people who are really bad, and you have to play a good 200 games or so before you can even play ranked matches. In Hon you jump into your first game with your 1500 psr, a rating where the game expects you to know what your doing, then you get flamed to hell for being bad your first game ever. Additionally the manual matchmaking everyone uses means those games you jump into are going to have a pretty random average skill level. Finally, HoN isnt free, almost everyone playing it knows what it is and what they're doing, there is no huge pool of people who have no idea how to play at all like there is in Lol. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On December 04 2010 05:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I'm a bit surprised to see other people having bad experiences in LoL too? But yeah I literally have not met one raquitter / BMer yet. And if they did leave it seemed to be a computer problem or incident, where they would log back in in a few minutes. Perhaps this is because I didn't get to level 20 or something yet and start laddering? I've been playing matchmaking with friends usually, but yes I have not seen any trash talk yet. I've probably only played a total of 15 hours though. But still no BM over 30 or so games is like beyond believable considering how DotA/HoN are. Oh yeah at the guy that commented how DotA and HoN were the about the same, I do agree with that, however with DotA if you make a custom game on Bnet and call it "noobs only", there is a good chance (and by this i mean like 25% lol) where everyone will be nice ( although not always noobs, but everyone knows that "noobs only" signifies "nice people only" ).@Maliken being the company's owner... WOW, really? WTF Ok seriously shutting down the server and stuff like that... hello does he care about the fans/customers? If not for hearing this I might have felt a little bad for HoN, but now I'm against HoN more than ever o.o @the guy who said DotA/LoL/HoN have big learning curve; I think you should try LoL then at least going to DotA/HoN, the community is much better (according to my experiences at least). If not, then at least the lower level games are significantly nicer than DotA/HoN where noobs only games will often have some good player that just wants to own noobs and also trashtalks/talks down to them. Im sorry here, mean no disrespect, but my guess is that you didnt play much of everyone of these games here, because your comments doesnt really show the reality. Obviously if you play with friends you wont see any BM, that applies to any of the 3 games, since trashtalk is 95% of the time (okay maybe less then that) in between team (usually until someone starts talking in all chat). Having friends obviously dimishes taht factor by alot, DoTa and HoN are pretty much the same on a lot of level, sure there are difference on items/heroes, but all in all, they are both played on the same map, balanced towards competitive players, and thrive to build a solid competitive scene (while still trying to appeal to casual gamers, but with competitiveness in mind first). LoL on the other side is different because its first focus is that ''casual gamer'', everything being made to try to lower that learning curve that MoBa games have. As for ''noobs only'' games, the reason that most noobs dont like HoN is because they get trash talked in ''presumed noobs only'' games, if they would only read a couple of seconds more about the game, they would understand that these are always pubstomps, and they should actually join games that are ''no stats'' '' low psr requirement'', etc. The reason why this happened less on DoTa is mostly because your typical noob was playing on battle.net, while players that were a bit better usually switched to Garena. See, my problem with you/your post, is that you say youre against HoN, yet its clear that you never actually played more then 10 games, you probably just listened to what the LoL forums were saying about it or something. (And trust me, BOTH the HoN forums and the LoL forums really hate the other game). As for Maliken shutting down servers, I have never heard about that, if he did do it though it was in Salvage, not in HoN. Yes you say that it still ''tells'' something about the guy, but all in all hes just a competitive person that sometimes gets too deep in the game (and usually excuses himself afterwards). Is this good as a game owner ? probably not, does that make hon bad ? I dont see why it would. As for going to LoL if you are new, I would semi-agree with you on that point. LoL is indeed way easier to grasp for someone that has never played this genre. I wont talk about the community itself, as I think all 3 games have a terrible community, and I think that the only way you will stick to any of these games is by playing with friends, or simply ignoring what your teammates tell you. I still dont think that you should chose a game ''because when you start its easier to play''. Im not telling you here that you should go play hon and dota. All im saying is that you should try all of the games, play more then 5-10 games of each, and then base an opinion on the GAME ITSELF, not in which game you got screamed the hardest against. On December 04 2010 05:56 Fatmatt2000 wrote: From my experiences with both games I feel like what really separates the LoL/HoN communities is that everyone uses the matchmaking in LoL. When people start in LoL your matchmaking rating is really low and you're forced matched against people who are really bad, and you have to play a good 200 games or so before you can even play ranked matches. In Hon you jump into your first game with your 1500 psr, a rating where the game expects you to know what your doing, then you get flamed to hell for being bad your first game ever. Additionally the manual matchmaking everyone uses means those games you jump into are going to have a pretty random average skill level. Finally, HoN isnt free, almost everyone playing it knows what it is and what they're doing, there is no huge pool of people who have no idea how to play at all like there is in Lol. I dont think that what you described is a problem with the ''game'' itself. The problem is with the players that jump into games they should not be in when first playing HoN. Thing that is rare(r) with LoL. If you actually select ''beginner'' and go for matchmaking in HoN (or the best option) join no stats noobs games, you shouldnt have much problem. What annoys me are the new player that just dont try to know what the game is about, just online, join a 1500+ ab game, and instantly join it without thinking, then wonder why they get trashtalked. Im not actually saying the trashtalk is the good solution here, but I just think you should at least try to know abit about the game before jumping in (especially when its well established that the game has a bad community/high learning curve.) Ill agree with the free/not free argument. This has good point and bad points for both games (microtransactions/multi-accounts vs having to pay), but on this point you are right, The amount of players that know nothing about the game are low in hon because you actually think before buying a game, in LoL you can just download the client and jump in even if you dont have a clue how it works. | ||
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote: -Creeps and Experience Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience. What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~ | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On December 04 2010 06:39 cArn- wrote: What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~ Read topic, See its for the new casual mode ONLY AND NOT NORMAL GAMES Profit by not looking like the 20 other posters before you who said the exact same thing | ||
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
On December 04 2010 06:40 TurpinOS wrote: Read topic, See its for the new casual mode ONLY AND NOT NORMAL GAMES Profit by not looking like the 20 other posters before you who said the exact same thing k my bad dunno why I didn't notice this detail | ||
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:35 Sadistx wrote: If you encountered BM, chances are you played really really bad or the BMing person was really really bad. In either case, because its a team game, BM is going to be a huge part of it, because the outcome depends on other people as well as you. So unless you have a team that's ready to listen to you and play to win, HoN can be a very frustrating experience. I played Dota, HoN and LoL and HoN has by far the worst and most anal community all of them, even worse than the bnet pubs from back in the day. Everyone's super sensitive about their stupid k/d ratio and freaks out then they day and if they do they'll flame and it makes for really bad and boring farmfest games. Don't know if things gotten better but that's what I experienced in Beta/very early release. I've always thought that the stats broke the game. People care way too much about them, makes the comminuty shit and the game not fun to play. People in HoN are also generally a lot more hostile even if people will still throw flames at you in Dota and LoL. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On December 04 2010 01:41 TurpinOS wrote: Not playing a game because people ''BM'' you, this is just getting sad. I mean, I totally understand that the DotA/LoL/HoN communities are trash, but so what. It is unbelievable the amount of people that whine about these games because of the communities, I maen so what if youre teammate is trashtalking you in game. You probably don't understand the issue because of your attitude. Some people adopted the stereotype internet badboy behaviour and accept it as "normal". People with problems are "whining", people that rage are "normal" and this is expected behaviour that everyone should be content with. This is WRONG. I don't know about you, but when I start a game, it's to enjoy my spare time after work or uni. I want to have fun. I do not have fun when I have to deal with immature users who think the internet and its anonymity are just there to behave like they'd never dare in the real world. I wouldn't climb into a pit of monkeys flinging their feces at each other IRL, because it sucks and I wouldn't enjoy myself. Why should I do the same online (read: play HoN)? | ||
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Kaiko
209 Posts
But HoN is a heavy team-game. You're forced (in pub play) to play with people you don't know. Many times this can include people who were just carried to their rating, on a friends account, or a foreigner. HoN/DotA requires communication to be successful. You need to be able to call out certain things and you need to also have a certain amount of chemistry to work in lanes. Because of how heavily team-reliant the game is, getting angry over someones bad play is pretty understandable. It's like if SC2 was suddenly a two player game. You can now only micro units and you're relying on someone else to macro for you. This person who's macroing is slow to make workers, does not make more than two production buildings, and doesn't know how to expand. It's really hard when you know you're playing good and you know your efforts are going to be wasted cause you just have someone on your team that can't play up to standards. HoN/DotA have a huge skill curve, but improving once you learn the basics is easy. My friend came into DotA when I was in my "league" mode, where I played with a bunch of great and competitive players, and learned so quick it blew my head. He worked hard and learned all the skills, and the general play. He's now a much better support than I could ever be and has great game sense, albeit tends to drift off a lot in game. So tl;dr: People get angry because of how team reliant you are. But once you're good enough and past the point of typical pub play, the game becomes quite fun because of the challenges. | ||
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
And thats with some 100+ hours of LoL exp at least, i can't imagine how someone with no DoTA-Like experience would EVER get into this game. | ||
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misaTO
Argentina204 Posts
Just wait for dota2 and let's save this disscussion until then. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
The original (normal mode) gameplay is not altered at all. The casual mode thing is just the new "easy mode". They are throwing out "easy mode" and replacing it with casual mode. Their stated design goal with that was to have games ramp up faster and end faster. They have a parabolic experience curve early on to speed up leveling. You gain much more gold from creep kills and much more gold from hero kills as well - so last hitting and denying are both still very important. In the original "easy mode" you gained lots of gold for doing absolutely nothing (the passive gold per minute that you gained was doubled). This way you at least have to do something (last hit well and kill heroes) to gain the gold faster. Denying is still an important aspect (preventing the enemy from getting lots of gold), they just wanted to increase the pace of the game (hence the experience loss from denies is gone). Again, nothing about HoN 2.0 changes the normal gameplay at all. | ||
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Tomken
Norway1144 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On December 06 2010 06:03 misaTO wrote: HoN/LoL are dotA's bastard children. Why would you play a game that is inferior and costs money? Just wait for dota2 and let's save this disscussion until then. What do you mean "inferior"? Or are you just a blind kid that plays a game not for the actual qualities of the game itself but simply for what name is behind the game? (ie: Icefrog leg-humper). I instantly left DotA for HoN and never looked back because S2 made a great improvements over the original. I'm not a Icefrog fanboy, and if Dota2 is a big improvement from HoN like it was from Dota I'll switch to Dota2 in a heartbeat without question. I follow good games, not names. | ||
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Inverted
United States50 Posts
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dotamaster
104 Posts
On December 06 2010 13:54 Inverted wrote: Dota II is where is will all be ^^ Its nice to see they keep updating HoN though. Same here Playing HoN and buying Dota 2. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 04 2010 06:39 cArn- wrote: What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~ wrong...you're totally wrong., that's for CASUAL MODE People normally use NORMAL MODE (which has the denies/etc, and none of these changes) (normally + for tournaments + etc) Casual mode is for people for fooling around and for people that are new the the game/genre. EDIT: nvm, didn't read further in the thread, was already brought up.. | ||
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catamorphist
United States297 Posts
- Great, comprehensive match stats accessible from player profiles - Lots of tools for managing clans and channels and friend lists - Chat and management interface accessible from in-game - Well-organized lobby interface - Replays for games saved, downloadable, distributable, nicer interface for spectators - A nice web portal with all of the same information available HoN's interface is a spit in the face of folks complaining about how hard it would have been for Blizzard to add these features and how much work it would have taken. A shop with a few million dollars and a couple of programmers did it fine in about two years. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On December 03 2010 16:56 Shockk wrote: Except that people in HoN won't get angry over losing. They get angry over losing, winning, joining, leaving, language, smileys, typing, not typing, clicking, not clicking, your name, their name, the date, the current time, the weather and basically everything else too. Agreed. I had one hilarious game where my team was tearing themselves apart in the team chat even though we were the ones up by 30 kills (we were more or less rolling the other team). This continued well into the channel chat after we had won. I remembered remarking in the all chat that "jeez if you read my teams' transcript right now you'd think we were the ones getting pwned". | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17331 Posts
On December 08 2010 07:39 catamorphist wrote: If by "taking a shot at" you mean "taking a monumentally huge crap on since day 1" then I agree, HoN's interface is taking a shot at Battle.net 2.0. It's not even in the same league of quality; it's far better in every conceivable way. - Great, comprehensive match stats accessible from player profiles - Lots of tools for managing clans and channels and friend lists - Chat and management interface accessible from in-game - Well-organized lobby interface - Replays for games saved, downloadable, distributable, nicer interface for spectators - A nice web portal with all of the same information available HoN's interface is a spit in the face of folks complaining about how hard it would have been for Blizzard to add these features and how much work it would have taken. A shop with a few million dollars and a couple of programmers did it fine in about two years. And don't forget replay rewinds (which Blizzard wasn't sure was possible to do), detailed in-game information (about server the game is played on etc.), ability to talk in the channels while in the game - basically, game screen and chat/menu being separate things from it entirely and you having the option to switch between them freely, dedicated servers, game reconnections, and other stuff like that. | ||
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TrueGamer
United States1 Post
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
Idk.. seems like they don't really compete against each other all too much. | ||
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pirates
United States701 Posts
On December 03 2010 07:16 Shockk wrote: Those changes sound really interesting. I played HoN until the beta ended and decided not to buy a full account. Despite the game being the pinnacle of the Dota-genre, its community was downright atrocious and I have never before in any game encountered that much BM. I do not know how it has developed since, but the target demographic didn't change until now, so I assume it stayed pretty much the same. Am I wrong? Any active players that can update me there? Opening the game to casuals might actually improve the situation, create an influx of new players which is always good and may especially balance the community a bit toward less hardcore, less elitist. as for the first paragraph, i agree completely and did the same thing. I loved playing DoTA and HoN but the community ruined HoN for me. LoL is trash and that is that. | ||
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TheRPGAddict
United States1403 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On January 15 2011 03:26 TheRPGAddict wrote: @ the person who asked if the community changed, it did not. This game is still unplayable simply due to the community. Would be fun but being a team game and with so much bad manner it is almost impossible to enjoy it. That's usually the excuse of bad players. "Oh, it's not me, it must be everyone else in the community". I never see BM against support heroes on a team, even in pubs. | ||
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Groslouser
France337 Posts
As a support, even if you do your job perfectly you'll get trashtalked. Then again, you can blame the carry/ganker for everything else in this game since you already sacrified your money/exp to grant them an edge over the other team. Actually in the end the BM is quite refreshing, it soothe me to be able to vent some frustration when someone makes me lose (and btw, i get yelled at more than often). | ||
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Yurie
11875 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
dear mods, can you like... combine this thread with the main HoN topic ._.' | ||
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Ethenielle
Norway1006 Posts
On January 15 2011 04:40 Yurie wrote: One of the most important features of team games. Being able to disable chat for pub games. That is why DotA on Iccup is fun, no support for russian character set. ^^ /ignorechat Ctrl+F8 -> ChatDisconnect -> Enter Enjoy :p | ||
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