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On December 04 2010 05:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:I'm a bit surprised to see other people having bad experiences in LoL too? But yeah I literally have not met one raquitter / BMer yet. And if they did leave it seemed to be a computer problem or incident, where they would log back in in a few minutes. Perhaps this is because I didn't get to level 20 or something yet and start laddering? I've been playing matchmaking with friends usually, but yes I have not seen any trash talk yet. I've probably only played a total of 15 hours though. But still no BM over 30 or so games is like beyond believable considering how DotA/HoN are. Oh yeah at the guy that commented how DotA and HoN were the about the same, I do agree with that, however with DotA if you make a custom game on Bnet and call it "noobs only", there is a good chance (and by this i mean like 25% lol) where everyone will be nice ( although not always noobs, but everyone knows that "noobs only" signifies "nice people only"  ). @Maliken being the company's owner... WOW, really? WTF Ok seriously shutting down the server and stuff like that... hello does he care about the fans/customers? If not for hearing this I might have felt a little bad for HoN, but now I'm against HoN more than ever o.o @the guy who said DotA/LoL/HoN have big learning curve; I think you should try LoL then at least going to DotA/HoN, the community is much better (according to my experiences at least). If not, then at least the lower level games are significantly nicer than DotA/HoN where noobs only games will often have some good player that just wants to own noobs and also trashtalks/talks down to them.
Im sorry here, mean no disrespect, but my guess is that you didnt play much of everyone of these games here, because your comments doesnt really show the reality.
Obviously if you play with friends you wont see any BM, that applies to any of the 3 games, since trashtalk is 95% of the time (okay maybe less then that) in between team (usually until someone starts talking in all chat). Having friends obviously dimishes taht factor by alot,
DoTa and HoN are pretty much the same on a lot of level, sure there are difference on items/heroes, but all in all, they are both played on the same map, balanced towards competitive players, and thrive to build a solid competitive scene (while still trying to appeal to casual gamers, but with competitiveness in mind first). LoL on the other side is different because its first focus is that ''casual gamer'', everything being made to try to lower that learning curve that MoBa games have.
As for ''noobs only'' games, the reason that most noobs dont like HoN is because they get trash talked in ''presumed noobs only'' games, if they would only read a couple of seconds more about the game, they would understand that these are always pubstomps, and they should actually join games that are ''no stats'' '' low psr requirement'', etc. The reason why this happened less on DoTa is mostly because your typical noob was playing on battle.net, while players that were a bit better usually switched to Garena.
See, my problem with you/your post, is that you say youre against HoN, yet its clear that you never actually played more then 10 games, you probably just listened to what the LoL forums were saying about it or something. (And trust me, BOTH the HoN forums and the LoL forums really hate the other game).
As for Maliken shutting down servers, I have never heard about that, if he did do it though it was in Salvage, not in HoN. Yes you say that it still ''tells'' something about the guy, but all in all hes just a competitive person that sometimes gets too deep in the game (and usually excuses himself afterwards). Is this good as a game owner ? probably not, does that make hon bad ? I dont see why it would.
As for going to LoL if you are new, I would semi-agree with you on that point. LoL is indeed way easier to grasp for someone that has never played this genre. I wont talk about the community itself, as I think all 3 games have a terrible community, and I think that the only way you will stick to any of these games is by playing with friends, or simply ignoring what your teammates tell you.
I still dont think that you should chose a game ''because when you start its easier to play''. Im not telling you here that you should go play hon and dota. All im saying is that you should try all of the games, play more then 5-10 games of each, and then base an opinion on the GAME ITSELF, not in which game you got screamed the hardest against.
On December 04 2010 05:56 Fatmatt2000 wrote:
From my experiences with both games I feel like what really separates the LoL/HoN communities is that everyone uses the matchmaking in LoL.
When people start in LoL your matchmaking rating is really low and you're forced matched against people who are really bad, and you have to play a good 200 games or so before you can even play ranked matches.
In Hon you jump into your first game with your 1500 psr, a rating where the game expects you to know what your doing, then you get flamed to hell for being bad your first game ever. Additionally the manual matchmaking everyone uses means those games you jump into are going to have a pretty random average skill level.
Finally, HoN isnt free, almost everyone playing it knows what it is and what they're doing, there is no huge pool of people who have no idea how to play at all like there is in Lol.
I dont think that what you described is a problem with the ''game'' itself. The problem is with the players that jump into games they should not be in when first playing HoN. Thing that is rare(r) with LoL. If you actually select ''beginner'' and go for matchmaking in HoN (or the best option) join no stats noobs games, you shouldnt have much problem. What annoys me are the new player that just dont try to know what the game is about, just online, join a 1500+ ab game, and instantly join it without thinking, then wonder why they get trashtalked.
Im not actually saying the trashtalk is the good solution here, but I just think you should at least try to know abit about the game before jumping in (especially when its well established that the game has a bad community/high learning curve.)
Ill agree with the free/not free argument. This has good point and bad points for both games (microtransactions/multi-accounts vs having to pay), but on this point you are right, The amount of players that know nothing about the game are low in hon because you actually think before buying a game, in LoL you can just download the client and jump in even if you dont have a clue how it works.
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On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~
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On December 04 2010 06:39 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~
Read topic,
See its for the new casual mode ONLY AND NOT NORMAL GAMES
Profit by not looking like the 20 other posters before you who said the exact same thing
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On December 04 2010 06:40 TurpinOS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 06:39 cArn- wrote:On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~ Read topic, See its for the new casual mode ONLY AND NOT NORMAL GAMES Profit by not looking like the 20 other posters before you who said the exact same thing
k my bad dunno why I didn't notice this detail
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Cuz when things like this happen people only see the bad stuff immediately lol. CASUAL HON NOW UR A HONSTAR
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On December 03 2010 07:35 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +I have never before in any game encountered that much BM. I do not know how it has developed since, but the target demographic didn't change until now, so I assume it stayed pretty much the same. Am I wrong? Any active players that can update me there? If you encountered BM, chances are you played really really bad or the BMing person was really really bad. In either case, because its a team game, BM is going to be a huge part of it, because the outcome depends on other people as well as you. So unless you have a team that's ready to listen to you and play to win, HoN can be a very frustrating experience.
I played Dota, HoN and LoL and HoN has by far the worst and most anal community all of them, even worse than the bnet pubs from back in the day. Everyone's super sensitive about their stupid k/d ratio and freaks out then they day and if they do they'll flame and it makes for really bad and boring farmfest games. Don't know if things gotten better but that's what I experienced in Beta/very early release. I've always thought that the stats broke the game. People care way too much about them, makes the comminuty shit and the game not fun to play. People in HoN are also generally a lot more hostile even if people will still throw flames at you in Dota and LoL.
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On December 04 2010 01:41 TurpinOS wrote:
Not playing a game because people ''BM'' you, this is just getting sad. I mean, I totally understand that the DotA/LoL/HoN communities are trash, but so what. It is unbelievable the amount of people that whine about these games because of the communities, I maen so what if youre teammate is trashtalking you in game.
You probably don't understand the issue because of your attitude. Some people adopted the stereotype internet badboy behaviour and accept it as "normal". People with problems are "whining", people that rage are "normal" and this is expected behaviour that everyone should be content with.
This is WRONG. I don't know about you, but when I start a game, it's to enjoy my spare time after work or uni. I want to have fun. I do not have fun when I have to deal with immature users who think the internet and its anonymity are just there to behave like they'd never dare in the real world.
I wouldn't climb into a pit of monkeys flinging their feces at each other IRL, because it sucks and I wouldn't enjoy myself. Why should I do the same online (read: play HoN)?
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HoN/DotA really does have bad mannered people. It was actually a surprise to see how mannered people were in SC2, wasn't used to it. But in DotA I went from Pub play, to TDA play, to league play. Once you reach a certain point, and you're good at what you're doing, you become known and you eventually shed off bad mannered players. It's all joking-bad manners, and just generally fun.
But HoN is a heavy team-game. You're forced (in pub play) to play with people you don't know. Many times this can include people who were just carried to their rating, on a friends account, or a foreigner. HoN/DotA requires communication to be successful. You need to be able to call out certain things and you need to also have a certain amount of chemistry to work in lanes.
Because of how heavily team-reliant the game is, getting angry over someones bad play is pretty understandable. It's like if SC2 was suddenly a two player game. You can now only micro units and you're relying on someone else to macro for you. This person who's macroing is slow to make workers, does not make more than two production buildings, and doesn't know how to expand.
It's really hard when you know you're playing good and you know your efforts are going to be wasted cause you just have someone on your team that can't play up to standards.
HoN/DotA have a huge skill curve, but improving once you learn the basics is easy. My friend came into DotA when I was in my "league" mode, where I played with a bunch of great and competitive players, and learned so quick it blew my head. He worked hard and learned all the skills, and the general play. He's now a much better support than I could ever be and has great game sense, albeit tends to drift off a lot in game.
So tl;dr: People get angry because of how team reliant you are. But once you're good enough and past the point of typical pub play, the game becomes quite fun because of the challenges.
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HoN. The game where i learned that "Newbie Matchmaking" actually means "Elitist Only Matchmaking". And "Noob Only" custom games (which were later proposed to me) translates to "200+ wins welcome to trashtalk mislead noobs joining this".
And thats with some 100+ hours of LoL exp at least, i can't imagine how someone with no DoTA-Like experience would EVER get into this game.
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HoN/LoL are dotA's bastard children. Why would you play a game that is inferior and costs money?
Just wait for dota2 and let's save this disscussion until then.
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Interesting to see how many people think some of the changes for casual mode will alter the gameplay of all of HoN.
The original (normal mode) gameplay is not altered at all. The casual mode thing is just the new "easy mode". They are throwing out "easy mode" and replacing it with casual mode.
Their stated design goal with that was to have games ramp up faster and end faster. They have a parabolic experience curve early on to speed up leveling. You gain much more gold from creep kills and much more gold from hero kills as well - so last hitting and denying are both still very important. In the original "easy mode" you gained lots of gold for doing absolutely nothing (the passive gold per minute that you gained was doubled). This way you at least have to do something (last hit well and kill heroes) to gain the gold faster. Denying is still an important aspect (preventing the enemy from getting lots of gold), they just wanted to increase the pace of the game (hence the experience loss from denies is gone).
Again, nothing about HoN 2.0 changes the normal gameplay at all.
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Woho burn hon burn! DotA hwaiting.
User was warned for this post
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On December 06 2010 06:03 misaTO wrote:
HoN/LoL are dotA's bastard children. Why would you play a game that is inferior and costs money?
Just wait for dota2 and let's save this disscussion until then.
What do you mean "inferior"? Or are you just a blind kid that plays a game not for the actual qualities of the game itself but simply for what name is behind the game? (ie: Icefrog leg-humper). I instantly left DotA for HoN and never looked back because S2 made a great improvements over the original. I'm not a Icefrog fanboy, and if Dota2 is a big improvement from HoN like it was from Dota I'll switch to Dota2 in a heartbeat without question. I follow good games, not names.
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Dota II is where is will all be ^^ Its nice to see they keep updating HoN though.
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On December 06 2010 13:54 Inverted wrote:
Dota II is where is will all be ^^ Its nice to see they keep updating HoN though.
Same here
Playing HoN and buying Dota 2. 
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On December 04 2010 06:39 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 07:11 Gamerah wrote:
-Creeps and Experience
Denies by enemy players will still give you full experience.
What the fuck are they really going to turn hon into the same piece of shit that is LoL, can't believe they are that dumb. Playing dota with a new engine and some new/reworked heroes was cool, now that it turns into a bad clone of dota there will be no reason to play it over the original one ~~
wrong...you're totally wrong., that's for CASUAL MODE
People normally use NORMAL MODE (which has the denies/etc, and none of these changes) (normally + for tournaments + etc)
Casual mode is for people for fooling around and for people that are new the the game/genre.
EDIT: nvm, didn't read further in the thread, was already brought up..
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If by "taking a shot at" you mean "taking a monumentally huge crap on since day 1" then I agree, HoN's interface is taking a shot at Battle.net 2.0. It's not even in the same league of quality; it's far better in every conceivable way.
- Great, comprehensive match stats accessible from player profiles
- Lots of tools for managing clans and channels and friend lists
- Chat and management interface accessible from in-game
- Well-organized lobby interface
- Replays for games saved, downloadable, distributable, nicer interface for spectators
- A nice web portal with all of the same information available
HoN's interface is a spit in the face of folks complaining about how hard it would have been for Blizzard to add these features and how much work it would have taken. A shop with a few million dollars and a couple of programmers did it fine in about two years.
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On December 03 2010 16:56 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 15:09 Entertaining wrote:
Dota/hon is like dodge ball. "YOU GOTTA GET ANGRY, YOU GOTTA GET MEEAANN"
If u got no killer instinct (you dont care if you win or lose as long as u had fun yada yada yada) then this game isnt for you. BM is healthy to a certain degree. Like Idra said sometime ago that getting angry when you lose is just competitive spirit. Except that people in HoN won't get angry over losing. They get angry over losing, winning, joining, leaving, language, smileys, typing, not typing, clicking, not clicking, your name, their name, the date, the current time, the weather and basically everything else too.
Agreed. I had one hilarious game where my team was tearing themselves apart in the team chat even though we were the ones up by 30 kills (we were more or less rolling the other team). This continued well into the channel chat after we had won. I remembered remarking in the all chat that "jeez if you read my teams' transcript right now you'd think we were the ones getting pwned".
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On December 08 2010 07:39 catamorphist wrote:
If by "taking a shot at" you mean "taking a monumentally huge crap on since day 1" then I agree, HoN's interface is taking a shot at Battle.net 2.0. It's not even in the same league of quality; it's far better in every conceivable way.
- Great, comprehensive match stats accessible from player profiles
- Lots of tools for managing clans and channels and friend lists
- Chat and management interface accessible from in-game
- Well-organized lobby interface
- Replays for games saved, downloadable, distributable, nicer interface for spectators
- A nice web portal with all of the same information available
HoN's interface is a spit in the face of folks complaining about how hard it would have been for Blizzard to add these features and how much work it would have taken. A shop with a few million dollars and a couple of programmers did it fine in about two years.
And don't forget replay rewinds (which Blizzard wasn't sure was possible to do), detailed in-game information (about server the game is played on etc.), ability to talk in the channels while in the game - basically, game screen and chat/menu being separate things from it entirely and you having the option to switch between them freely, dedicated servers, game reconnections, and other stuff like that.
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User was banned for this post.
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EPT
