My best advice to learning the commander roles is not playing comm, but rather observing what a good comm does, until you have a rather good understanding of what you can do. Also you can test the commander in explore mode, or if you create your own server and type cheats 1 in console. This way you can get familiar with the interface before playing in a game with other players who rely on you.
Here is some rough advise on what is essential: As a marine commander: In the beginning of the game, try to secure as many resource towers as you (your marines) can. Try to get phase tech as soon as possible, to increase the mobility of your marines. Start upgrading in the arms lab. If your marines do good, upgrade weapons 1, if they're dying a lot, upgrade armor 1. You should upgrade armor 1 before fades are on the field. If you haven't done so once you see one, it's your #1 priority to get shotguns and armor 1, so your marines have a chance fighting him.
As alien commander: In the beginning of the game, you should either drop a second hive and try to secure it (tell your players to defend it), and drop 1 rt, so you're on 2 rts. Once the hive is done, research the lifeform ability leap for the skulk in one of the hives. It makes your skulks way way better. :D OR, you can go for early upgrades. Most players prefer carapace or celerity, but you can also get the silence upgrade. Make sure your team knows when the upgrade is done, so they can evolve it right away. If you do this, i recommend securing three resource towers in the beginning, so you can have the second hive faster. As a general rule it is very import that aliens get their second hive and the abilities the hive unlocks, and the evolve upgrades, which you can research when you upgrade a hive to either crag (carapace upgrade), shift (celerity upgrade) or shade (silence upgrade).
On November 01 2012 22:18 KarlKaliente wrote: I spent a few more hours pubbing last night, time for noob questions part 2, any help or advice you guys have is much appreciated
Are there any indicators, visual or otherwise, that help me find the right places to be? Its nice when the commander gives me a waypoint and I'm always sure to build something if I see it. I'll also try to defend an area if a warning pops up - but all of these things seem to be 20 - 30% of the time. The rest of the time I'm just wandering around looking for things to kill - and I feel pretty useless.
How to do you take down builds efficiently? On either team it seems to take ages to kill anything besides eggs or creep tumors. Is there a faster way than shooting it? Is there a way to kill a building without wasting all of your ammo?
And finally, how do you deal with Pterodactyls point blank? I can deal with skulks since they have limited movement options, but the damn birds seem able to strafe in 3 dimensions and can do it very quickly. A couple of them embarrassed me last night
To take out buildings as a marine, use your melee weapon (default hotkey 3). That little hatchet does bonus damage to structures and will take it out faster than your rifle without using any ammo. Just be sure to put your back to a wall and listen for skulks sneaking up on you, otherwise they will run up and bite your ass. As an alien, it takes a while to bite a structure down. Same thing as above, try to find a spot where you can attack the building without being seen/shot at. Pace yourself and don't deplete all of your bite energy right away, otherwise you'll be boned if a Marine shows up.
As far as where to go, that really depends on how well you know the map/your commander's plan. If they want to rush, then stick with everyone else and head to the enemy base. If they want to grab some resources early, head to the nearest node and let them know you are there and ready to build. Communication is much more important in NS than your average shooter. If you see enemies/structures, let your team know where so they can help or take advantage of an empty section of the map.
All this is from my days playing NS1 years ago, so some things may have changed in the new one.
About lerks, my friend last night was playing a lerk with celerity + carapace and he did three strafing runs on a group of three marines on a bridge and took all of them out with his bite. Apparently carapace gives a LOT of armor and celerity doubles movement speed, so yeah...
On November 02 2012 22:51 KarlKaliente wrote: Holy shit this game is so much fun with a good commander. Had an even better time in pubs last night, lost my rookie flag and learned you have to upgrade yourself when alien (lol)
My question of the day is how in the hell do you deal with fades? I had 3 fights in a row where I landed 3 good shotgun hits before dying. It seems impossible to deal enough damage to them, they are far too mobile to run away from or dodge and they close gaps so quickly. I decided to play one next time I was alien and it just felt too easy. Any tips? Also do they take damage while blinking or only when visible?
If its like NS1, a Marine is not supposed to be able to take down a Fade 1v1 unless he's like really good with a jetpack or something. Marines must always move in numbers.
NS1 fades had a serious amount of HP (I think it was 300 hp 150 carapace), so yeah nothing short of a HMG or several good GL shots would allow a marine to solo a fade.
Bile Bombs are disgustingly underrated. You know those games where marines hold on to one base for 30+ minutes? Spam bile bombs. Marines have +3 armor already? Spam bile bombs.
How fantastic, all these newbie comments. Makes me happy! NS (1) is still great but this means there'll be new players! Great!
Also it seems they've made NS2 actually be NS1 with fancier graphics and very little real changes otherwise, which is great because everything else they tried wasn't too good. Sooo I'm probably going to give it a whirl and see if the performance issues of the alpha are finally gone
Hah, what a great game for me! None of my friends are in to Starcraft, but if they get to play an FPS while I play my RTS ... together? I've only played a few hours, but it already feels super fun. I put a few teams through the ordeal of me as a commander, but hopefully it won't be an ordeal for too much longer.
I played this game last night at a LAN party and boy-oh-boy was this game super fun. I feel I am really bad at it, but it's such an awesome game. I'm going to be getting right into this game
On November 01 2012 19:23 BrTarolg wrote: How similar is this to tremulous? I was alright at that
I'm surprised no one responded to you.
I think I LANed Tremulous a few times but I can't remember for sure. From what I remember, it's basically a copy of Natural Selection 1 but not quite as well done. It was sort of fun to mess around in but NS is more polished and has good design/strong competitive focus.
While I have not played NS2 yet, it seems from the videos and gameplay that I've seen that it is just as well-designed as the first though not quite as polished yet. The balance and gameplay aren't quite as set in stone yet as they were in NS1 but I feel that the development team is active and dedicated.
Ok i'll bite i guess haha
Were even the units/buildings the same?
I remember all the wierd little tricks you had to learn (like looking up to headshots with aliens) and learning all the trickjumps and stuff haha
On November 01 2012 19:23 BrTarolg wrote: How similar is this to tremulous? I was alright at that
I'm surprised no one responded to you.
I think I LANed Tremulous a few times but I can't remember for sure. From what I remember, it's basically a copy of Natural Selection 1 but not quite as well done. It was sort of fun to mess around in but NS is more polished and has good design/strong competitive focus.
While I have not played NS2 yet, it seems from the videos and gameplay that I've seen that it is just as well-designed as the first though not quite as polished yet. The balance and gameplay aren't quite as set in stone yet as they were in NS1 but I feel that the development team is active and dedicated.
Ok i'll bite i guess haha
Were even the units/buildings the same?
I remember all the wierd little tricks you had to learn (like looking up to headshots with aliens) and learning all the trickjumps and stuff haha
I honestly haven't played enough Tremulous to give you much more information. Plus, I'm not an expert on NS2. I'll still try to contrast the two based on my cursory knowledge:
1. In Tremulous, I believe that frags give you resources and dictate how far your team can evolve. In NS2, you do not get resources from frags. Both teams get resources from building resource nodes around the map. Frags obviously help you build and hold resource nodes but map-based resource collection results in strategic decisions rather than just tactical ones.
2. In NS2, those resource nodes generate personal as well as team resources. The commanders use team resources to make strategic decisions such as what tech tree your team is going to be locked into and what order you'll get upgrades. Further, there are special spots (technology points) on the map where you can build more command stations/hives which are required to unlock the other tech trees, abilities for the lifeforms (even if an FPS alien can personally afford to evolve into a lifeform, the unit won't have all its skills unlocked), and more evolutions (passive upgrades). This system allows for different possible build orders but forces expansion/map control in order to get all the strongest units.
3. NS2 has some mechanics that make map control more structural and less ethereal, especially for the aliens (Kharaa). Dynamic infestation is very cool aesthetically and also has gameplay implications. Quoting the NS2 wiki:
Strategy
Dynamic Infestation can be seen as a network of interconnected nodes representing the territory control of the Kharra. "Pockets" or small outcroppings of structures cannot exist on their own. In other words, each structure must ultimately be connected to the hive though infestation. Because of this, territory expansion needs to be controlled and actively defended when dealing with control and placement of Harvesters as an alien commander.
Since Marines can place structures anywhere on the map with power, they have the advantage of being able to place structures quickly and in any location immediately. This means that a team of 2-3 Marines can effectively move from room-to-room, establish power, and build Extractors very quickly after the start of a round. This can give the Marines a large advantage very early in the game if not effectively countered. However, this also means that Marine Extractors are usually not as defended or watched as often as Harvesters once the round progresses. The Kharra's guerrilla warfare tactics are very well suited to take out these lone Extractors.
The Kharra do not have this luxury, and must "branch out" from the initial hive towards Resource Nozzles. A common beginner mistake as an alien commander is to create very long "limbs" towards Resource Nozzles far away from the hive. If a Marine severs the connection between the hive and Harvester, the unconnected cysts and Harvester will start to die, and an inattentive commander may not take notice until it is too late. Thus, it is better to grow "organically" from the hive to the closest Nozzles first, and actively defend the territory expansion towards others.
------ I got sidetracked with something else at this point so my organization and numbering isn't going anywhere in comparing/contrasting the two. Basically some of the units are going to be similar (skulk has wall-climbing and jumping) but NS has a lot of unique alien units with certain strengths and weaknesses. Your Tremulous specific skills probably aren't going to carry over but the games are similar conceptually.
I played a few rounds of this game, and i noticed that i am terrible at it. The reason might be that i am usually not that good at FPS. It is a lot of fun, though.
The problem i have as an alien is that i get completely disorientated. As a marine, i have a minimap which shows me stuff, and gives me a rough direction as to where i should go. As an alien, i usually just run circles in my base until i somehow get out and meet some random marine somewhere that kills me, because i have absolutely no idea where anything is. More often then not i notice that i passed the same point three times in a row, but no matter where i go i end up there again. Is there any way to deal with that except just playing marine until i learn the maps?
On November 05 2012 11:56 Simberto wrote: I played a few rounds of this game, and i noticed that i am terrible at it. The reason might be that i am usually not that good at FPS. It is a lot of fun, though.
The problem i have as an alien is that i get completely disorientated. As a marine, i have a minimap which shows me stuff, and gives me a rough direction as to where i should go. As an alien, i usually just run circles in my base until i somehow get out and meet some random marine somewhere that kills me, because i have absolutely no idea where anything is. More often then not i notice that i passed the same point three times in a row, but no matter where i go i end up there again. Is there any way to deal with that except just playing marine until i learn the maps?
you can hit "c" to bring up a full map while playing as aliens or marines, you should use it frequently as it gives detailed information about players locations and tech points, as well as where the combat is.
Ohhh, i tried "m", but that didn't help, so i assumed that there is no full map available. Maybe i should read the keybindings.
Edit: Thanks for that, that was incredibly helpful. Now i at least know where i am going to get killed by random marines.
I just played my first game as commander because after i died 2 times to random marines, i noticed that literally nothing had happened creepwise, and apparently noone else wanted to play commander. So i just jumped in and did random stuff. And we won. Of course this is not really because i am a good commander, but people were pretty accepting of the fact that i had to learn what to do first, meaning for example that i forgot to get speed for a pretty long period of time until someone complained that onos without speed are useless. But apparently as long as you spam creep like crazy, half the marines are busy cleaning that up instead of doing useful stuff, which lead to us getting a second hive uncontested, a clutch attack by my team without any involvement on my part then gave us a third hive. And once i understood what all the stuff does, we simply did not lose territory anymore, since every time we got forward around the next edge i would just place 3-4 whips, a shade and a few healthingies. About 5 minutes before the end of the game someone told me that it is possible to use my ressources on eggs for my guys, leading to about 4 onos at once. All in all a fun experience.
On November 01 2012 19:23 BrTarolg wrote: How similar is this to tremulous? I was alright at that
I'm surprised no one responded to you.
I think I LANed Tremulous a few times but I can't remember for sure. From what I remember, it's basically a copy of Natural Selection 1 but not quite as well done. It was sort of fun to mess around in but NS is more polished and has good design/strong competitive focus.
While I have not played NS2 yet, it seems from the videos and gameplay that I've seen that it is just as well-designed as the first though not quite as polished yet. The balance and gameplay aren't quite as set in stone yet as they were in NS1 but I feel that the development team is active and dedicated.
Ok i'll bite i guess haha
Were even the units/buildings the same?
I remember all the wierd little tricks you had to learn (like looking up to headshots with aliens) and learning all the trickjumps and stuff haha
I honestly haven't played enough Tremulous to give you much more information. Plus, I'm not an expert on NS2. I'll still try to contrast the two based on my cursory knowledge:
1. In Tremulous, I believe that frags give you resources and dictate how far your team can evolve. In NS2, you do not get resources from frags. Both teams get resources from building resource nodes around the map. Frags obviously help you build and hold resource nodes but map-based resource collection results in strategic decisions rather than just tactical ones.
2. In NS2, those resource nodes generate personal as well as team resources. The commanders use team resources to make strategic decisions such as what tech tree your team is going to be locked into and what order you'll get upgrades. Further, there are special spots (technology points) on the map where you can build more command stations/hives which are required to unlock the other tech trees, abilities for the lifeforms (even if an FPS alien can personally afford to evolve into a lifeform, the unit won't have all its skills unlocked), and more evolutions (passive upgrades). This system allows for different possible build orders but forces expansion/map control in order to get all the strongest units.
3. NS2 has some mechanics that make map control more structural and less ethereal, especially for the aliens (Kharaa). Dynamic infestation is very cool aesthetically and also has gameplay implications. Quoting the NS2 wiki:
Dynamic Infestation can be seen as a network of interconnected nodes representing the territory control of the Kharra. "Pockets" or small outcroppings of structures cannot exist on their own. In other words, each structure must ultimately be connected to the hive though infestation. Because of this, territory expansion needs to be controlled and actively defended when dealing with control and placement of Harvesters as an alien commander.
Since Marines can place structures anywhere on the map with power, they have the advantage of being able to place structures quickly and in any location immediately. This means that a team of 2-3 Marines can effectively move from room-to-room, establish power, and build Extractors very quickly after the start of a round. This can give the Marines a large advantage very early in the game if not effectively countered. However, this also means that Marine Extractors are usually not as defended or watched as often as Harvesters once the round progresses. The Kharra's guerrilla warfare tactics are very well suited to take out these lone Extractors.
The Kharra do not have this luxury, and must "branch out" from the initial hive towards Resource Nozzles. A common beginner mistake as an alien commander is to create very long "limbs" towards Resource Nozzles far away from the hive. If a Marine severs the connection between the hive and Harvester, the unconnected cysts and Harvester will start to die, and an inattentive commander may not take notice until it is too late. Thus, it is better to grow "organically" from the hive to the closest Nozzles first, and actively defend the territory expansion towards others.
------ I got sidetracked with something else at this point so my organization and numbering isn't going anywhere in comparing/contrasting the two. Basically some of the units are going to be similar (skulk has wall-climbing and jumping) but NS has a lot of unique alien units with certain strengths and weaknesses. Your Tremulous specific skills probably aren't going to carry over but the games are similar conceptually.
are there head/bodyshots in this game?
Just checking whether i need to aim "up" as alienns or licking their feet is fine
EPT
