Natural Selection 2 - Page 14

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FFGenerations

7088 Posts

November 05 2012 14:12 GMT

#261

On November 03 2012 04:37 Jetaap wrote:
I watched this video:

and i must say it looks really really cool!

nice one

Warpath

Canada1242 Posts

November 05 2012 14:20 GMT

#262

On November 05 2012 22:37 BrTarolg wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 05 2012 03:17 Durak wrote:

On November 04 2012 21:05 BrTarolg wrote:

On November 02 2012 11:06 Durak wrote:

On November 01 2012 19:23 BrTarolg wrote:
How similar is this to tremulous? I was alright at that

I'm surprised no one responded to you.

I think I LANed Tremulous a few times but I can't remember for sure. From what I remember, it's basically a copy of Natural Selection 1 but not quite as well done. It was sort of fun to mess around in but NS is more polished and has good design/strong competitive focus.

While I have not played NS2 yet, it seems from the videos and gameplay that I've seen that it is just as well-designed as the first though not quite as polished yet. The balance and gameplay aren't quite as set in stone yet as they were in NS1 but I feel that the development team is active and dedicated.

Ok i'll bite i guess haha

Were even the units/buildings the same?

I remember all the wierd little tricks you had to learn (like looking up to headshots with aliens) and learning all the trickjumps and stuff haha

I honestly haven't played enough Tremulous to give you much more information. Plus, I'm not an expert on NS2. I'll still try to contrast the two based on my cursory knowledge:

1. In Tremulous, I believe that frags give you resources and dictate how far your team can evolve. In NS2, you do not get resources from frags. Both teams get resources from building resource nodes around the map. Frags obviously help you build and hold resource nodes but map-based resource collection results in strategic decisions rather than just tactical ones.

2. In NS2, those resource nodes generate personal as well as team resources. The commanders use team resources to make strategic decisions such as what tech tree your team is going to be locked into and what order you'll get upgrades. Further, there are special spots (technology points) on the map where you can build more command stations/hives which are required to unlock the other tech trees, abilities for the lifeforms (even if an FPS alien can personally afford to evolve into a lifeform, the unit won't have all its skills unlocked), and more evolutions (passive upgrades). This system allows for different possible build orders but forces expansion/map control in order to get all the strongest units.

3. NS2 has some mechanics that make map control more structural and less ethereal, especially for the aliens (Kharaa). Dynamic infestation is very cool aesthetically and also has gameplay implications. Quoting the NS2 wiki:

Strategy

Dynamic Infestation can be seen as a network of interconnected nodes representing the territory control of the Kharra. "Pockets" or small outcroppings of structures cannot exist on their own. In other words, each structure must ultimately be connected to the hive though infestation. Because of this, territory expansion needs to be controlled and actively defended when dealing with control and placement of Harvesters as an alien commander.

Since Marines can place structures anywhere on the map with power, they have the advantage of being able to place structures quickly and in any location immediately. This means that a team of 2-3 Marines can effectively move from room-to-room, establish power, and build Extractors very quickly after the start of a round. This can give the Marines a large advantage very early in the game if not effectively countered. However, this also means that Marine Extractors are usually not as defended or watched as often as Harvesters once the round progresses. The Kharra's guerrilla warfare tactics are very well suited to take out these lone Extractors.

The Kharra do not have this luxury, and must "branch out" from the initial hive towards Resource Nozzles. A common beginner mistake as an alien commander is to create very long "limbs" towards Resource Nozzles far away from the hive. If a Marine severs the connection between the hive and Harvester, the unconnected cysts and Harvester will start to die, and an inattentive commander may not take notice until it is too late. Thus, it is better to grow "organically" from the hive to the closest Nozzles first, and actively defend the territory expansion towards others.

------
I got sidetracked with something else at this point so my organization and numbering isn't going anywhere in comparing/contrasting the two. Basically some of the units are going to be similar (skulk has wall-climbing and jumping) but NS has a lot of unique alien units with certain strengths and weaknesses. Your Tremulous specific skills probably aren't going to carry over but the games are similar conceptually.

are there head/bodyshots in this game?

Just checking whether i need to aim "up" as alienns or licking their feet is fine

Just 1 hitbox, although your damage varies depending on how far away the target is from the center of your screen for biting.

Pfhor

123 Posts

November 05 2012 17:31 GMT

#263

I preordered this game when it was in alpha, was skeptical throughout the development but it's finally here and it's fucking great. My steam name is lolpfhor, add me if you wanna play.

Horo

United States351 Posts

November 05 2012 17:46 GMT

#264

Just advice all around: this game has a high learning curve, but once you really get into it, the team mechanic and necessary communication simply gives you a rocking experience. Always loved NS1 and now am getting pulled right back in. It is amazing.

floor exercise

Canada5847 Posts

November 05 2012 19:29 GMT

#265

Playing this is like a timewarp to NS 1.04 when aliens had fuck all and couldn't even end games. I don't think there's a single part of alien that isn't a massive regression. Every unit is a weaker version of what it was, including the onos which they are now completely reliant on, and has never been a fun unit. Meanwhile marines are pretty significantly improved in this.

The original was tenuously balanced on having good fades and focus but just making fades garbage and requiring like 8 bites to kill an armor 3 marine is such a ridiculous swing in the opposite direction. There's just so many little things that confuse the hell out of me, like why marines get sprint and skulks can leap like a quarter the distance they could in NS1. It makes me wonder what terrible NS1 players must be giving playtesting advice.

In all I think they've done an okay job but it's very hard for me to see it as anything but a worse version of NS with some not particularly fleshed out gameplay mechanics like cysts and power nodes. Cysts especially, why do they cost res and slow down taking nodes so fast, and die so easy, compared to power nodes? They should at least convey some sort of advantage to the aliens, like hive sight with a certain radius, movement speed like creep, anything. It just seems like not a single idea for the alien team has been given half the thought of marines.

PassiveAce

United States18076 Posts

November 05 2012 19:56 GMT

#266

I agree that infestation should give some sort of benefit, because atm it just seems like a chore and a drain on resources.

tylervoss4

182 Posts

November 05 2012 19:58 GMT

#267

This game has to be one of the worst optimized game.
If you do not have i5-2500k or anything equivalent, I don't recommend trying it out.

I have i3-2100 and GTX 560Ti, and I Run bf3 medium settings with fluid 80 fps.
This game 40fps and its choppy.

Frunkis

United States146 Posts

November 05 2012 21:46 GMT

#268

I'm having so much fun with this game. It's just awesome. One of the devs did a q&a that I found interesting....

http://www.twitch.tv/naturalselection2/b/338117751

Apparently they're going to continue to improve the game for a long time, and a new feature patch will be out soon. I'm looking forward to some of the mods people are going to be able to make with this game.

KaiserJohan

Sweden1808 Posts

November 05 2012 22:18 GMT

#269

Bought it after TB's first impressions, and it owns.

KillerSOS

United States4207 Posts

November 05 2012 22:55 GMT

#270

Yeah I should buy this... it looks amazing.

Aylear

Norway3988 Posts

November 06 2012 01:12 GMT

#271

On November 06 2012 04:29 floor exercise wrote:
Playing this is like a timewarp to NS 1.04 when aliens had fuck all and couldn't even end games. I don't think there's a single part of alien that isn't a massive regression. Every unit is a weaker version of what it was, including the onos which they are now completely reliant on, and has never been a fun unit. Meanwhile marines are pretty significantly improved in this.

The original was tenuously balanced on having good fades and focus but just making fades garbage and requiring like 8 bites to kill an armor 3 marine is such a ridiculous swing in the opposite direction. There's just so many little things that confuse the hell out of me, like why marines get sprint and skulks can leap like a quarter the distance they could in NS1. It makes me wonder what terrible NS1 players must be giving playtesting advice.

In all I think they've done an okay job but it's very hard for me to see it as anything but a worse version of NS with some not particularly fleshed out gameplay mechanics like cysts and power nodes. Cysts especially, why do they cost res and slow down taking nodes so fast, and die so easy, compared to power nodes? They should at least convey some sort of advantage to the aliens, like hive sight with a certain radius, movement speed like creep, anything. It just seems like not a single idea for the alien team has been given half the thought of marines.

Wait, really? I think aliens win most of the games I play. I can only rebut with anecdotes, so I'll keep it short: I play a pretty good Skulk and I think they do okay in combat, Fades still just eat 1-2 people no problem, and while I agree the Onos has never been a particularly fun unit to play, there's always people on your team willing to field them. They also just don't die.

In my experience, the team that wins is the team that plays well on the field, takes resource nodes, and prevents the other team from doing the same -- and that's just as often the aliens as it is the marines.

If you're talking balance in terms of competitive play, then I can point to Arc and say that they seem to win using alien no matter who they're playing against, mostly because they actually know how to play alien.

I guess I'm just not seeing your argument right now. Maybe once things even out a bit and people start learning NS2 better we can get a good indication of balance, but for right now and as far as I know, Aliens actually do have the highest win percentage. By about 1%.

They did a pretty good job on NS2 as far as I can tell.

ChiknAdobo

United States208 Posts

November 06 2012 02:02 GMT

#272

Infestation has some advantage for gorges, they can belly slide and hydras grow faster, but I think thats it. I think adding a speed advantage for all alien units and/or vision would be good. Who cares if its the same as Starcraft II. I think being like starcraft is an advantage.

Shivaz

Canada1783 Posts

November 06 2012 02:33 GMT

#273

awesome game, and just adding to the alien discussion i remember in the in game client bottom that often has messages and tweets ~2 days after the game was released it mentioned aliens had higher win rate of 51.3%~ to human's 48.69%~..

carraway

264 Posts

November 06 2012 02:39 GMT

#274

It's too early for me to talk about balance but, having never played NS1, the game is a blast. Got a 4-pack with some friends and I've put about 12 hours into it. My aim with both marines and aliens is still terrible at best and I feel like I can still affect battles in very tangible ways. I do hope they make commander more accessible in general, because it seems like pub games are won or lost in the first minute by whichever side didn't have a player immediately willing to play commander.

gostunv

Japan1178 Posts

November 06 2012 03:06 GMT

#275

The meta game right now in "pro" or actual clan games, almost always Aliens>Marines.

If aliens can keep 2-3 res nodes up while harassing the marines at 2-3, they can save up enough res to get an onos egg way before marines can get jetpacks or exos.

Without that the aliens can proceed to choke marines of res nodes around the map and slowly gain advantage till its GG.

There also is the patent Zerg rush where pretty much the whole team just bum rushes the command chair at the very beginning and if all the marines are out putting up res nodes and such its GG as well.

So no the aliens are not underpowered compared to the marines. At least thats the meta right now.

prOxi.swAMi

Australia3091 Posts

November 06 2012 08:51 GMT

#276

On November 06 2012 11:02 ChiknAdobo wrote:
Infestation has some advantage for gorges, they can belly slide and hydras grow faster, but I think thats it. I think adding a speed advantage for all alien units and/or vision would be good. Who cares if its the same as Starcraft II. I think being like starcraft is an advantage.

Does celerity not apply to all classes?

Simberto

Germany11507 Posts

November 06 2012 16:24 GMT

#277

He means specific to the creep, which is at the moment mostly looking pretty and not doing a lot of other things.

gTank

Austria2564 Posts

November 06 2012 16:33 GMT

#278

Gorges can belly slide? :D
Actually, I think gorges are lots of fun, similar to the Engineer in TF2 but they are so difficult to play in an actual battle :/

PassiveAce

United States18076 Posts

November 06 2012 16:41 GMT

#279

On November 07 2012 01:33 gTank wrote:
Gorges can belly slide? :D
Actually, I think gorges are lots of fun, similar to the Engineer in TF2 but they are so difficult to play in an actual battle :/

Yeah gorges can be tough, you really have to use all of their abilities for them to be good. remember that you can block doorways with clots and that when you place hydras on the inside of a doorway, they can shoot marines on the other side while still having partial cover. you also of course have your heal spray which is very useful for pushing with smart players because they will simply dive in and out of combat while you heal constantly, which creates a huge amount of pressure.
You will also get bile bomb at some point which absolutely WRECKS marine armor, and marine structure, and exosuits.

And ya, you can slide on your belly with shift for much faster movement at the cost of maneuverability :p

gTank

Austria2564 Posts

November 06 2012 16:55 GMT

#280

Is it normal that I find gorges cute

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