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chimthegrim5
United States5 Posts
Well, anyone who played diablo ii and enjoyed fighting with friends is going to enjoy this video: http://www.ign.com/videos/2010/10/23/diablo-3-pvp-gameplay Also the new "Demon Hunter" class video follows up that video. It is pretty impressive to say the least. I'm sold so far. | ||
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undyinglight
United States611 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Pandaz
Australia52 Posts
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
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Peppo
Sweden71 Posts
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Stuv
Netherlands942 Posts
On October 23 2010 18:37 DTK-m2 wrote: Good idea, but the foundation of the game seems a bit lacking. D2 just moved a lot faster, with people hitting fcr breakpoints so that they would have like 7 or 8 frame casts. From all of the D3 videos I've seen, it just seems slow. I agree that it doesnt look really fast-paced. Kinda bothers me. | ||
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Latham
9558 Posts
There were 2 things that I hated about Diablo II: 1) Hackers, bots and cheats 2) TPPK on hardcore. I'm glad I will be able to play the game without always looking behind my back to see if some retard doesn't want to start shit up -.- | ||
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HeIios
Sweden2523 Posts
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Qwix
531 Posts
On October 23 2010 18:49 Latham wrote: I for one am glad that they decided on arenas, I just hope they won't want to balance the skills around it. There were 2 things that I hated about Diablo II: 1) Hackers, bots and cheats 2) TPPK on hardcore. I'm glad I will be able to play the game without always looking behind my back to see if some retard doesn't want to start shit up -.- Imo hackers, botters and glitchers/exploiters made the game for what it was. Everyone can remember the old patches where you simply would get laughed at if you DIDEN'T had a maphack. Sure things like drophacks where irritating but your a fool for falling for that in the first place. Also anyone grinding HC knew that he could be !@#&*^ any moment of the day and lose his life project  It's just my opinion tho'  but leveling/economic-wise the botters really helped even for the people that diden't had any of that stuff. And about the glitches/exploits... well they shouldn't be there in the first place nor for that long time after acknowledgement of the problem.Ontopic: I'm a bit sceptic about Diablo 3 arena's for one side i'm really pumped about it for the competitve and fun side, on the other side.. nothing can beat A1 Blood Moor duels. The chaotic fights, gold stealing, NKing, TKing, bm chars etc. etc. Already pumped about it just by bringing it back up.. maybe time to grab my smiter for a duel sometimes again  | ||
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ironchef
Canada1350 Posts
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
On October 23 2010 19:38 Qwix wrote: Imo hackers, botters and glitchers/exploiters made the game for what it was. Everyone can remember the old patches where you simply would get laughed at if you DIDEN'T had a maphack. Sure things like drophacks where irritating but your a fool for falling for that in the first place. Also anyone grinding HC knew that he could be !@#&*^ any moment of the day and lose his life project It's just my opinion tho' but leveling/economic-wise the botters really helped even for the people that diden't had any of that stuff. And about the glitches/exploits... well they shouldn't be there in the first place nor for that long time after acknowledgement of the problem.Ontopic: I'm a bit sceptic about Diablo 3 arena's for one side i'm really pumped about it for the competitve and fun side, on the other side.. nothing can beat A1 Blood Moor duels. The chaotic fights, gold stealing, NKing, TKing, bm chars etc. etc. Already pumped about it just by bringing it back up.. maybe time to grab my smiter for a duel sometimes again Yeah by helping you mean every character anyone ever made could have ridiculously op rw's with no effort. If they have stuff that op in d3 i hope they go back to 1 in 40 million drop chance runes required for it with no duping. | ||
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
Maybe that was just my bad connection though. | ||
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Domonkazu
Germany29 Posts
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Qwix
531 Posts
On October 23 2010 19:51 bigjenk wrote: Yeah by helping you mean every character anyone ever made could have ridiculously op rw's with no effort. If they have stuff that op in d3 i hope they go back to 1 in 40 million drop chance runes required for it with no duping. Sure any rune you've been trading the last couple of years from public trades, private trades or d2jsp had a 90% chance to be duped and poof. My point was just that thereby runewords where cheap to make (once attached to a runeword they where permed) and thereby people that diden't bot could have anything they wished for as well. Sure things where less unique, guess it depends on what way you look at the game tho'.. But i don't mind everyone having some decent char, in the end the REAL unique things where pre-patch bugged items.. And those WHERE expensive, duped or not | ||
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LiMs
15 Posts
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
KAMEHAMEEEEE | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1972 Posts
Edit: on second thoughts, that's a pretty terrible example, yeah, look at what Grack posted on p2. | ||
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Corvi
Germany1406 Posts
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Grack
51 Posts
On October 23 2010 20:50 Garrl wrote: Compare that to this (or any D2 PVP video, really, just took the top result) and you'll see why D3's PVP is awful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_tUvPln1Lc horrible example this is way better ps. people who dont play d2 probably wont realize how many things they are actually doing while it appears its just few clicks on screen | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On October 23 2010 18:49 Latham wrote: 2) TPPK on hardcore. They fixed that about a year ago, finally. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
the graphics are so LOL-esque...all the enemies flashing when taking damage like some fighting game. | ||
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
Hopefully it will be atleast slightly more interesting in D3. | ||
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CoFran
Canada342 Posts
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
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Grack
51 Posts
On October 23 2010 21:34 NeonFlare wrote: All that enigma teleportation spam... makes the pvp 2 or 3 skill spam (one of them being the teleport) hooray. Aside from positioning there doesn't seem anything interesting going on. Hopefully it will be atleast slightly more interesting in D3. u obviously dont know much about pvp in d2 there are so many factors i cba even to explain it to somebody who never achieved anything in this game, its like explainig to somebody from wc3 that bw actualy has a lot of very demanding micro, they just wont understand it , btw enigma made duels way more dynamic than pre 1.10 patch the footage from d3 duels looks rly shitty and WoW-like im not happy with this and most of the good d2 duelers agree with me. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
Early D2 pvp wasn't exactly something to brag about either. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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ragingfungus
United States271 Posts
I think it would be a cool idea if they did some sort of competitive pve, such as 2 teams being attacked by a neverending horde and trying to get a bigger combo than the other team before death or something. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
Watch a D2 pvp duel then watch a Quake Live duel. Heck, watch a WoW duel, and come back and talk. You're retarded. | ||
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Grack
51 Posts
On October 23 2010 22:09 Sm3agol wrote: Rofl, at you D2 pvp'ers. Just face it, D2 pvp was pure crap. You can butter it up, call it skilled, and act like there is a million things going on in the background that you can't even explain, but bottom line is, it looked like crap, and played like crap. The only reason it became popular was because of how stupid botting and map-hacking made pve, and idiots had to find something to do with their bot-enhanced characters. Watch a D2 pvp duel then watch a Quake Live duel. Heck, watch a WoW duel, and come back and talk. You're retarded. LOL ok u r clueless wont even bother answering, go back to ur wow arena tard User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Kazius
Israel1456 Posts
... and as someone who wants more of the same, I can say that I absolutely love the fact that PvP aficionados have their own special place to make each other miserable without interfering with my game experience. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17237 Posts
On October 23 2010 21:41 Eury wrote: Diablo 3 arena looks fantastic so far and much better than WoW arena. Diablo 3 might have a future in e-sports. That might be because WoW arena is one of the shittiest and most boring things ever conceived by man. And D2 PvP became ridiculous post-Enigma. It's not the same thing when everyone can teleport... The only really good thing about D2 PvP was lvl 20 dueling. You had to try really hard to come up with good build and items for such low level. That's where the skill was. | ||
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
On October 23 2010 21:42 Grack wrote: u obviously dont know much about pvp in d2 there are so many factors i cba even to explain it to somebody who never achieved anything in this game, its like explainig to somebody from wc3 that bw actualy has a lot of very demanding micro, they just wont understand it , btw enigma made duels way more dynamic than pre 1.10 patch the footage from d3 duels looks rly shitty and WoW-like im not happy with this and most of the good d2 duelers agree with me. If you can't bother to explain or provide examples your point is rather moot. Was there anything to achieve beyond finishing the game on hell anyway aside from gathering pretty items? The only decently interesting thing about D2 PvP was group duels pre-enigma(which were quite rare), when it was slightly more complex and more classes and builds were viable. | ||
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Filo
United States54 Posts
I liked D2 PvP, but it really came down to 2 or 3 skills and enigma. Also I don't see how some people are saying that it looks like it's really slow. Shit is flying around that screen like every couple of seconds. My only complaint at this time would be the numbers popping up, that has to go. | ||
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Vernom
Spain374 Posts
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Grack
51 Posts
On October 23 2010 22:43 NeonFlare wrote: If you can't bother to explain or provide examples your point is rather moot. Was there anything to achieve beyond finishing the game on hell anyway aside from gathering pretty items? The only decently interesting thing about D2 PvP was group duels pre-enigma(which were quite rare), when it was slightly more complex and more classes and builds were viable. the pre enigma lovers piss me off the should stick to EP (which is dead because nobody wants to play it) and stop complaining, most of them are horrible players anyway and never adjusted to new fast paced duels. as for the factors i mentioned there are many things some of them are basic and very simple to do others require alot of practice i will list few of them: weapon switch glitch, name lock supported by summon lock or foh lock (like in this hammer v ama vid ), polish guide arrow trick, minion stack glitch, desych and predictiong where your opponent is compered to what d2 client actualy displays, proper builds and actualy knowing fhr/fcr breakpoints vs specific opponents, item setups (most of the best are already known but most best duelers stil have their own setupis in some match ups) Desych (talking from paladin perspective now since its the most popular pvp char nowadays) and fast namelocking/summon namelocking is an art on its own, there are few amazing players who could desynch like nobody else with just few seconds of vigor charge then apper on top of you with ultrafast tele namelock . Every player has his own playstyle and experience has alot of an impact on outcome of the duel. Watching karol (probably best melee paldin player of all time) duel with charger/smiter vs ww barb was one of the most epic things i've seen in d2, nobody could desynch smite like him into ww'ing barb, even after years where duel techniques developed and improved alot theres barely nobody who is close to him. Vast majority of vids uploaded on youtube are complete trash and have nothing to do with real duels which took place in d2. ps. its obviousl d2pvp is not as competitive as sc2 or bw but people saying its crap most likely are clueless newbs. ps2. sorry for english its not my native language | ||
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lowkontrast
United States855 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
That being said, you want to see skill? Look at duels in Vanilla D2. hammerdins used three or four different Aura's via changing them, and made extensive use of charge for mobility, smite for CC, and hammers to you now... do damage. As compared to... using teleport then using one shift click to get a whirlwind off (which, i do admit there is some skill to getting a good WW off as far as hits go, but not the point.) Also, keep in mind this is a blizzard demonstration, i doubt you ever saw skillful PvP tactics coming pre-D2 from any blizzard video... think for a second, it is just a couple devs messing around. Relax a little people, haha. | ||
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FrontalMonkey
United States90 Posts
I think D3 pvp looks like a lot of fun to screw around in, and I think I've taken it as its meant to be: a fun diversion from the standard pve gameplay D3 provides. I don't think it's meant to be taken as the hardcore meat of the game like say, for example, the 1v1 environment in SC2. | ||
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
We shouldn't read too much into the Arena at the moment. Hopefully they tone down the 'flashiness' and make the colors more fluid and not transparent. That and the gameplay speed. The biggest concern I have is what most guys have already said. PvP and PvE are totally separate and likewise the skill sets shouldn't be balanced based upon this. I hate creating two chars just for pvp and pve purposes, meh. | ||
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FrontalMonkey
United States90 Posts
Now, just so long as they don't implement what they did in GW and charge for extra character slots...but now I'm just getting off topic. | ||
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fearus
China2164 Posts
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
On October 23 2010 21:34 NeonFlare wrote: All that enigma teleportation spam... makes the pvp 2 or 3 skill spam (one of them being the teleport) hooray. Aside from positioning there doesn't seem anything interesting going on. Hopefully it will be atleast slightly more interesting in D3. Agreed. Consider the amount of bugged nonsense on the NL (rings, charms in particular) I have a hard time taking D2 PvP seriously. In vanilla you had to at least find your good items...unfortunately dupes already existed back then as well, so you had to deal with that in any tourney. However, anyone who was honest had to find their own shit. Everyone had rare ammy's, weapons, boots, armors. That's the way it should be. Post1.10, it's enigma + Runewords - everyone has the same fucking uniform. I really hope that is changed in Diablo3, because rares need to be MUCH stronger this time around. Otherwise, it'll be back to wearing uniforms again. You basically lose if you don't have the standard uniform, that is why Blizzard needs to make a big change if they want PvP to be taken seriously. *A closing point - LLD is probably the most fair, since that eliminates the high-level RWs. You basically have some low-level uniques, but that limits the nonsensical torch/charms/etc. from really affecting stats. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 23 2010 23:44 StarStruck wrote: There were very few good duelers in D2. Sure most guys would die in one hit, but that's because they didn't know what the heck they were doing. Gear has always been important, so there is no need to get into that and yeah I used to love low level dueling too. We shouldn't read too much into the Arena at the moment. Hopefully they tone down the 'flashiness' and make the colors more fluid and not transparent. That and the gameplay speed. The biggest concern I have is what most guys have already said. PvP and PvE are totally separate and likewise the skill sets shouldn't be balanced based upon this. I hate creating two chars just for pvp and pve purposes, meh. I think they said during the presentation that skills would have different effects (I think they mean damage?) in PvP and PvE. I agree with the rest of your post though. This is Blizzcon dueling footage, which means absolutely nothing in terms of player skill. D2 PvP was ok, even after Runewords (which was worse than pre-LoD imo), but it really did need its own contained area rather than just running around Act 1. When I played, the PvPers always wanted Blizzard to make a separate PvP arena or somewhere that we could have tournaments and now we have it. In D2, you needed to have a neutral allied teammate to make sure people weren't spamming rejuv pots, which is pretty stupid. My only concern is that map is pretty small. I hope there's some bigger free roaming maps available. And maybe a FFA map? | ||
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PoopLord
537 Posts
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
On October 23 2010 21:42 Grack wrote: the pre enigma lovers piss me off the should stick to EP (which is dead because nobody wants to play it) and stop complaining, most of them are horrible players anyway and never adjusted to new fast paced duels. as for the factors i mentioned there are many things some of them are basic and very simple to do others require alot of practice i will list few of them: weapon switch glitch, name lock supported by summon lock or foh lock (like in this hammer v ama vid ), polish guide arrow trick, minion stack glitch, desych and predictiong where your opponent is compered to what d2 client actualy displays, proper builds and actualy knowing fhr/fcr breakpoints vs specific opponents, item setups (most of the best are already known but most best duelers stil have their own setupis in some match ups) Desych (talking from paladin perspective now since its the most popular pvp char nowadays) and fast namelocking/summon namelocking is an art on its own, there are few amazing players who could desynch like nobody else with just few seconds of vigor charge then apper on top of you with ultrafast tele namelock . Every player has his own playstyle and experience has alot of an impact on outcome of the duel. Watching karol (probably best melee paldin player of all time) duel with charger/smiter vs ww barb was one of the most epic things i've seen in d2, nobody could desynch smite like him into ww'ing barb, even after years where duel techniques developed and improved alot theres barely nobody who is close to him. Vast majority of vids uploaded on youtube are complete trash and have nothing to do with real duels which took place in d2. ps. its obviousl d2pvp is not as competitive as sc2 or bw but people saying its crap most likely are clueless newbs. ps2. sorry for english its not my native language You provide interesting points. However the whole having to predict where opponent actually is versus what is shown makes it just like GunZ, shitty for spectating as what is shown does not correspond what really happens. Though this does not take the fun out of playing as it provides yet another neccessary skill to master for players themselves. I never loved it pre-enigma and still don't, all it did was shift from having to run to avoid shit into teleport around to avoid shit or to catch others up... after all it was game about killing demons and ye big bad guy with PvP slapped on it without any focus on balancing towards the PvP. If you or others enjoy, have fun. Regardless of whatever skill it requires it's still boring to watch (yeah I have no skill because I never PvP'd, there was no reason to enter what seemed like borefest). | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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tackklee
United States270 Posts
If anyone has played bloodline champions, I'm guessing D3 arenas will play similarly. Which is damn amazing and has a pretty high skill ceiling. | ||
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
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hoborg
United States430 Posts
On October 24 2010 00:56 Zeroes wrote: just don't have or that many healing abilities and this will be fine As it is right now, there are these healing powerups on the map that you can run over to regain all your health. I hope they remove them or greatly reduce their effect because they sort of ruined it both times I played. The balance of the demo was clearly bad, but everything else about it was really fun. I just hope they don't remove the option to PvP in a normal game (though they probably will) - it'll make it more annoying to test damage and such. | ||
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b0oyah
Canada117 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
E: Might be better to ask this in the original D3 thread. ~soz | ||
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mrpeabody
4 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On October 23 2010 22:26 Grack wrote: LOL ok u r clueless wont even bother answering, go back to ur wow arena tard Rofl. I've never even played WoW. I have played Quake Live though. You know, a real duel game. And you are clearly in denial. D2 pvp was just stupid. Everyone had basically the same "rare" "uniform", and the game was CLEARLY not balanced around, or designed for pvp. People like you made it work because you had to convince yourself that you were better at a pve game than someone else. When you botted, maphacked, and duped your way into "rare" gear, and teleported around in circles spamming spells and called it skill. Just admit it. D2 pvp was pretty dumb to play, and to an outsider it looks even dumber. People that have never played a FPS/RTS can enjoy Quake Live/SC2. People who have never played D2 would take one look at a D2 duel, laugh, and walk away. Even people who've played D2 a lot, and even pvp'ed a little, like me, think D2 pvp looks and plays retarded. But you keep telling yourself you're the D2 pvp champion. Chicks LOVE D2 duel champions. | ||
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parkin
1079 Posts
Girl: We are going to die, arent we? DemonHunter: No. As long as Im around, they are the prey. Wtf blizzard? is that the best you can come up with? go get the real blizzard north ppl back. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17237 Posts
On October 23 2010 21:42 Grack wrote: the pre enigma lovers piss me off the should stick to EP (which is dead because nobody wants to play it) and stop complaining, most of them are horrible players anyway and never adjusted to new fast paced duels. as for the factors i mentioned there are many things some of them are basic and very simple to do others require alot of practice i will list few of them: weapon switch glitch, name lock supported by summon lock or foh lock (like in this hammer v ama vid ), polish guide arrow trick, minion stack glitch, desych and predictiong where your opponent is compered to what d2 client actualy displays, proper builds and actualy knowing fhr/fcr breakpoints vs specific opponents, item setups (most of the best are already known but most best duelers stil have their own setupis in some match ups) Desych (talking from paladin perspective now since its the most popular pvp char nowadays) and fast namelocking/summon namelocking is an art on its own, there are few amazing players who could desynch like nobody else with just few seconds of vigor charge then apper on top of you with ultrafast tele namelock . Every player has his own playstyle and experience has alot of an impact on outcome of the duel. Watching karol (probably best melee paldin player of all time) duel with charger/smiter vs ww barb was one of the most epic things i've seen in d2, nobody could desynch smite like him into ww'ing barb, even after years where duel techniques developed and improved alot theres barely nobody who is close to him. Vast majority of vids uploaded on youtube are complete trash and have nothing to do with real duels which took place in d2. ps. its obviousl d2pvp is not as competitive as sc2 or bw but people saying its crap most likely are clueless newbs. ps2. sorry for english its not my native language So, basically, you want to tell us that PvP in D2 is based primarily on game bug exploitation and that's what makes it awesome? Somehow, it doesn't fall under my terms of "competetive" and "great". | ||
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Nithix
United States184 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On October 24 2010 02:09 Manit0u wrote: So, basically, you want to tell us that PvP in D2 is based primarily on game bug exploitation and that's what makes it awesome? Somehow, it doesn't fall under my terms of "competetive" and "great". Muta stacking, hold lurker, etc. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17237 Posts
Hold Lurker is not a bug or glitch. Muta Stacking might be seen as one, but there are more things that stack (basically all flying units can be stacked...) and math proves that it's not the most effective use of mutas (as seen in the AI competition). | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1010 Posts
Arenas in D3 looks cool, looking forward to PvP in that game. The thing that fucked up D2 PvP was all the glitches and bugs that annoyed you to hell... particularly being hit by invisible guided arrows or whirlwind/charge which were one screen away from you. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
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Almisael
Austria235 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On October 24 2010 03:26 Almisael wrote: there will be no pvp outside of arenas. they just said that on the dev panel. Ahhh fuck GG then. That really annoys me. I'd have no problem with arena if they gave us other options, but whatever. | ||
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Rkie
United States1278 Posts
Anyways, I was wondering if it would be possible to balance the game in both the PvP and story aspects? like have the option for single/multiplayer, then PvP, but the attacks have different stats in the two game modes. If so, that would possibly make this game one of the best ever. | ||
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squintz
Canada217 Posts
On October 24 2010 03:26 Adila wrote: Nice to know they won't be balancing PvP and PvE together. they aren't. they said pvp is just for fun | ||
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CongoJack
Canada417 Posts
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HeIios
Sweden2523 Posts
On October 24 2010 03:26 Almisael wrote: there will be no pvp outside of arenas. they just said that on the dev panel. What?! What was the reaction to that? That's a severe blow to the spirit of Diablo, I can see why they chose to go that route so that the casual gamers wouldn't be discouraged to play but who the hell cares about those bastards? There has to be some kind of mode for people who want the real PvP experience... | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
oh and i love watching assassin ghost builds duel.. never pvped myself but played a lot of d2. loved watching the few duel vids on youtube after seeing one haha oh and demon hunter looks cool. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
On October 24 2010 03:53 HeIios wrote: What?! What was the reaction to that? That's a severe blow to the spirit of Diablo, I can see why they chose to go that route so that the casual gamers wouldn't be discouraged to play but who the hell cares about those bastards? There has to be some kind of mode for people who want the real PvP experience... I don't know. Most of the time, people just left the moment someone goes hostile in D2. Also, the size of the maps made it ridiculous to find people. In that regard, it doesn't change the game much for me other than pissing off the griefers. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
Diablo 3 is looking promising. Sure it is not the dark-grit and revolutionary Diablo people are used to but this is looking more than good enough and like a proper transition. I think that Diablo 3 has something that no other game has going for them and is a virtual platform to deliver content upgrades and stat tracking. If they keep the dungeons coming and the Arena in ladders then this game could be very popular for a very long time. | ||
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Bull-Demon
United States582 Posts
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
i thought diablo 2 pvp was great, maybe not that good on bnet but i played on d2pk, pretty awesome dueling server. you can't really look at the d2 pvp videos cuz there aren't really any good ones... once you try triangle wwing, chain zerking and things like that i think you will grasp that d2 pvp can be quite challenging at times. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 24 2010 03:53 HeIios wrote: What?! What was the reaction to that? That's a severe blow to the spirit of Diablo, I can see why they chose to go that route so that the casual gamers wouldn't be discouraged to play but who the hell cares about those bastards? There has to be some kind of mode for people who want the real PvP experience... Jay Wilson said he enjoyed griefing but it just wasn't the direction the team would take for the general public. If you want hardcore PvP, he said the hc arenas would be truly hc though. | ||
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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FindingPride
United States1001 Posts
soooooo... ye shit gonna happen for sure | ||
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sleeepy
Canada777 Posts
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ricerocket
154 Posts
cuz i can see none looks more like a two person FPS duel lawlz | ||
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PanoRaMa
United States5069 Posts
We used to have incredibly fun, fair PvPs by keeping it private and with rules that capped certain items etc. such that no one class can be truly broken, and it really spawned some great creativity (at least relative to that era, which was like 2002) and skill duels. | ||
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