I'm really surprised that this hasn't been brought up yet on the forums.
Today at BlizzCon, a special Blizzard mapmaking team announced their latest project: A MOBA map inspired by DOTA and Super Smash Bros. Basically, it's a MOBA featuring heroes from all of Blizzard's games to date, and I hear even a few from games that have yet to be released. Apparently it's going to be a Starcraft 2 Custom map, using the porvided mapmaker.
I'm personally quite excited. DotA was a great game, although it's community was never very appealing. What I'm most excited about though, is playing as many of the Blizzard icons, such as Raynor or Kerrigan, Decard Cain or Thrall, and even real throwbacks like Medivh, or that black ghost from the Vanilla Starcraft, I forget his name.
Anyway, should be a great mod, and I can't wait to see more updates in the future
The current custom map system is going to suck for blizzard dota. Basically, under the current system, every game you join will have at least 1 or 2 complete newbs who never played the game before. This will prevent any serious or semi-serious games from happening.
Chat channel will help this a little but people are probably going to end up using a bot to set up games again (ala DotA in WC3, bots would whisper you a custom game name to join). I really hope that blizzard will develop a better way to join custom games. Maybe if it gets popular enough they can develop some sort of rankings for the blizzard dota so people can matchup according to skill.. (one can wish right?)
Sotis killer, yay. i didnt get to play DOTA, looks hella niceer than Sotis. I only played Starjewel once, and 7-0 the other team.sad how ppl queue 30 minutes in line not know what to do for 15 mins
I like the idea of playing the iconic blizzard characters in a MOBA style game. I'll probably still favor LoL as a game in its own right, but this looks like it will at least be fun.
On October 23 2010 15:42 crazeman wrote: The current custom map system is going to suck for blizzard dota. Basically, under the current system, every game you join will have at least 1 or 2 complete newbs who never played the game before. This will prevent any serious or semi-serious games from happening.
Chat channel will help this a little but people are probably going to end up using a bot to set up games again (ala DotA in WC3, bots would whisper you a custom game name to join). I really hope that blizzard will develop a better way to join custom games. Maybe if it gets popular enough they can develop some sort of rankings for the blizzard dota so people can matchup according to skill.. (one can wish right?)
Pretty sure they arn't looking to make it super competitive. They pretty much specifically said in the panel its just for fun, even though they plan to continually balance and update it.
I highly doubt it will be as competitive/good as original dota and the current way to make custom maps is not going to help at all. Will try it out when it comes out but probably gonna wait for Dota2
As a long time DotA player I think this is a completely selfish move by Blizzard. To step in and try to hijack a series that IceFrog has put SOOOOO many hours into and is just coming to fruition in the form of DotA2 (by valve) is ludicrous and rude. There is no doubt that the hard core community will stick with ice frog but I fear this will split the soft core community and hurt the DotA scene as a whole. Boo you blizzard.
I am glad that Blizzard is officially recognizing such a popular fan map and is putting much work and effort into there own version which will be incredible. I have been getting more into DOTA in war 3 recently and will not be buying Valve's DOTA 2 when I will be getting a free DOTA game from Blizzard, since I already bought Starcraft 2.
On October 23 2010 18:15 Plutonium wrote: There's got to be some major legal hurdles going on here between Blizzard and Valve.
Riot Games and S2 games as well, considering how much of a bastard I hear Icefrog is.
I don't think so. Dota was created for Warcraft 3, and when you install that came you have to click this little checkbox to confirm a lot of text, and in this text I think it says that Blizzard has the right to use everything you create however they wish (I don't think the WC3 ToS said that they own everything you create, I think that was introduced by SC2). As far as I know Valve's game is only called "DOTA 2" and not "Defense of the Ancients 2", and for good reason I assume.
Plus, while Valve and Blizzard are both big companies, in an epic clash of lawyers I see Blizzard winning. They seem to have a lot more experience with that kind of stuff
On October 23 2010 15:42 crazeman wrote: The current custom map system is going to suck for blizzard dota. Basically, under the current system, every game you join will have at least 1 or 2 complete newbs who never played the game before. This will prevent any serious or semi-serious games from happening.
Chat channel will help this a little but people are probably going to end up using a bot to set up games again (ala DotA in WC3, bots would whisper you a custom game name to join). I really hope that blizzard will develop a better way to join custom games. Maybe if it gets popular enough they can develop some sort of rankings for the blizzard dota so people can matchup according to skill.. (one can wish right?)
last year they announced a ladder just for dota. haven't heard anything since though...
On October 23 2010 18:09 undyinglight wrote: I am glad that Blizzard is officially recognizing such a popular fan map and is putting much work and effort into there own version which will be incredible. I have been getting more into DOTA in war 3 recently and will not be buying Valve's DOTA 2 when I will be getting a free DOTA game from Blizzard, since I already bought Starcraft 2.
'Recognizing' it by riping it off? I doubt it's going to be that good in the long run anyway, as Blizzard won't put any effort into balancing it compared to it's rivals.
I really don't think Blizzard will put the time and effort to properly develop and balance Dota, which is a real shame, since I know so many people who bought or played frozen throne just for Dota. It doesn't really seem like they've focused on the core concepts of the game, or done anything to improve the game that Lol and Hon have added.
It just seems like a waste of resources since other LoL and HoN so far have added new features such as an independent ladder, stat tracking, reconnecting to games after drops, and we all know Valve's Dota 2 is going to be insanely fantastic. In comparison, I am not impressed with Blizzard's take at all.
Seems like pre-emptive to shut down most similar maps from becoming more popular and filling the customgame list along with potentially netting money from premium version. I doubt anyone who doesn't already own SC2 will get it just for this.
Seems like the playerbase shifts have pretty much stabilized between DotA allstars, LoL and HoN, at most it will be minor shift towards SC2 DotA and eventually when Valve's DotA 2 finishes there might be bigger shifts in player amounts (most likely the biggest being HoN -> DotA 2 if they haven't dumbed down the game as much as LoL did).
Anyway, might as well try it once it's avaiable to see how Blizzard would manage such game.
SC2 DotA doesn't even use the same interface though ( atleast from what some screens show ) and if they use SC2's interface, you lose the ability to cast via wireframes -Can't ping on screen, need to click minimap to ping? ( would be pretty crucial... ) -Blocking/moving in front of your own creeps will be useless ( since they just push your hero away and you can't slow down the creep wave by doing it due to it being SC2 )
On October 23 2010 15:42 crazeman wrote: The current custom map system is going to suck for blizzard dota. Basically, under the current system, every game you join will have at least 1 or 2 complete newbs who never played the game before. This will prevent any serious or semi-serious games from happening.
Chat channel will help this a little but people are probably going to end up using a bot to set up games again (ala DotA in WC3, bots would whisper you a custom game name to join). I really hope that blizzard will develop a better way to join custom games. Maybe if it gets popular enough they can develop some sort of rankings for the blizzard dota so people can matchup according to skill.. (one can wish right?)
It's not like DotA itself was tremendously original. There were similar maps in SC:BW already. Now, adding heroes that could learn spells and level-up, with the same interface and gameplay as warcraft 3 itself, wasn't that big of a leap of imagination. It's also not as if IceFrog created DotA, he just maintained it these last few years. When there is already HoN, LoL, Valve's DOTA, to then act as if when Blizzard is creating a similar map it is evil seems silly.
On October 23 2010 17:51 Mimus wrote: As a long time DotA player I think this is a completely selfish move by Blizzard. To step in and try to hijack a series that IceFrog has put SOOOOO many hours into and is just coming to fruition in the form of DotA2 (by valve) is ludicrous and rude. There is no doubt that the hard core community will stick with ice frog but I fear this will split the soft core community and hurt the DotA scene as a whole. Boo you blizzard.
That's like saying anyone who makes a fantasy world is ripping off Tolkien. It's a genre of games, not to mention HoN is already out as a newer competitive version of DotA.
On October 23 2010 23:27 EchOne wrote: I don't know much about the DotA scene, but is it still vibrant at the moment or has it been supplanted by LoL and HoN?
download garena and you'll see it's still pretty big
On October 23 2010 23:27 EchOne wrote: I don't know much about the DotA scene, but is it still vibrant at the moment or has it been supplanted by LoL and HoN?
iam pretty sure there are about 5times more dota players than hon and lol players together. or even more. last time I checked it was about 7mio players. a big part of the whole playerbase switched from public games to inhouse leagues/communities a long time ago. (like iccup vs bnet)
On October 23 2010 22:41 Mothxal wrote: It's not like DotA itself was tremendously original. There were similar maps in SC:BW already. Now, adding heroes that could learn spells and level-up, with the same interface and gameplay as warcraft 3 itself, wasn't that big of a leap of imagination. It's also not as if IceFrog created DotA, he just maintained it these last few years. When there is already HoN, LoL, Valve's DOTA, to then act as if when Blizzard is creating a similar map it is evil seems silly.
Originality means very little; whoever does it best is all that really matters in the end because that's where the players will end up.
Icefrog, while he did a pretty good job, certainly wasnt a great example of balancing. For many many years there was a clear tier of heroes, the best being pretty much AOE stun teams, along with blink daggers and such. He made a few heroes that were so badly balanced that teams didn't even have to waste a ban on the hero, because the tournament just made that hero unavailable.
That being said, I'm super excited over this, because even though it may not be as polished as DOTA 2, this will still be a welcome distraction when im exhaused from 1v1 play and want to screw around.
On October 24 2010 00:55 Varth wrote: Icefrog, while he did a pretty good job, certainly wasnt a great example of balancing. For many many years there was a clear tier of heroes, the best being pretty much AOE stun teams, along with blink daggers and such. He made a few heroes that were so badly balanced that teams didn't even have to waste a ban on the hero, because the tournament just made that hero unavailable.
That being said, I'm super excited over this, because even though it may not be as polished as DOTA 2, this will still be a welcome distraction when im exhaused from 1v1 play and want to screw around.
On October 23 2010 17:51 Mimus wrote: As a long time DotA player I think this is a completely selfish move by Blizzard. To step in and try to hijack a series that IceFrog has put SOOOOO many hours into and is just coming to fruition in the form of DotA2 (by valve) is ludicrous and rude. There is no doubt that the hard core community will stick with ice frog but I fear this will split the soft core community and hurt the DotA scene as a whole. Boo you blizzard.
On October 24 2010 00:55 Varth wrote: Icefrog, while he did a pretty good job, certainly wasnt a great example of balancing. For many many years there was a clear tier of heroes, the best being pretty much AOE stun teams, along with blink daggers and such. He made a few heroes that were so badly balanced that teams didn't even have to waste a ban on the hero, because the tournament just made that hero unavailable.
That being said, I'm super excited over this, because even though it may not be as polished as DOTA 2, this will still be a welcome distraction when im exhaused from 1v1 play and want to screw around.
Do you understand the term, "Metagame"
I'm not the person you're quoting...but I sure do, and guess what! YOU AND MANY OTHERS ARE FUCKING USING IT WRONG.
Am I the only one who thinks that Blizzard is only doing this with the intention of making a casual custom map to show off the editor, and not with the intention of shoving into the AoS genre? Just look at the other maps showcased (Aiur Chef, Left 2 Die)--none of them look like they're going to be serious, persistently-updated projects, just something the dev team did for fun in their spare time.
In order to seriously compete with LoL/DotA/HoN, Blizzard would have to spend time and manpower to continuously add new content to this and keep it balanced. Considering that they ALREADY have to do this for SC2, that's extremely unlikely.
On October 24 2010 03:24 TheYango wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that Blizzard is only doing this with the intention of making a casual custom map to show off the editor, and not with the intention of shoving into the AoS genre? Just look at the other maps showcased (Aiur Chef, Left 2 Die)--none of them look like they're going to be serious, persistently-updated projects, just something the dev team did for fun in their spare time.
In order to seriously compete with LoL/DotA/HoN, Blizzard would have to spend time and manpower to continuously add new content to this and keep it balanced. Considering that they ALREADY have to do this for SC2, that's extremely unlikely.
If it'll turn a profit they'll do it. Release a Beta map to see initial interest, and if it's high enough you can definitely market it in a way that they'll be making money off it. DotA made money, and this will too if it's successful.
I would honestly believe HoN to be slowly dieing due to awful balancing. Every patch adds a new hero, changes a new hero, adds 4 skills, and changes the numbers of 20 different skills, buffing or nerfing them. I honestly think the amount of changes crammed into one patch is a terrible idea when you're trying to make a competitive game.
I think the biggest thing that could hold SC2 DotA back is the lag and lack of LAN. Lag is so important in DotA that even a slight spike will cost a team the game, and any delay will completely screw up laning and team fighting.
Hope it gets good though. DotA was fun and so is HoN. Would be nice to see a better map for SC2. Might even get as big as DotA itself.
I agree with Yango I doubt that they'll really spend much time with it since it's just an sc2 custom map for them and it really sounds like a great idea and I really hope it does well however I doubt that it will because honestly it will require alot of resources and time to be constantly updating and working on a map like that.
On October 24 2010 03:12 cocosoft wrote: HAHA well it's no doubt that Blizzard is pissed off by VALVe recruiting Icefrog for DotA 2. Left 2 Die and Blizzard DOTA lol! :D
Well Blizzard DotA looks really promising for me, as an old DotA veteran... 6 spells makes me a bit worried however.
Blizzard pissed off at Valve? If anything Blizzard deserves it after the way they treated DotA.
Could be kinda fun to screw around on, but I don't see it by any means as a serious competitor to any of the dota games out or coming out.
On October 24 2010 00:55 Varth wrote: Icefrog, while he did a pretty good job, certainly wasnt a great example of balancing. For many many years there was a clear tier of heroes, the best being pretty much AOE stun teams, along with blink daggers and such. He made a few heroes that were so badly balanced that teams didn't even have to waste a ban on the hero, because the tournament just made that hero unavailable.
That being said, I'm super excited over this, because even though it may not be as polished as DOTA 2, this will still be a welcome distraction when im exhaused from 1v1 play and want to screw around.
Examples? =/ Your opinion/idea of dota is just wrong. Even if there was a few imba heroes both teams had bans anyway.
If you actually understand anything about the TFT mapping community, you would acknowledge that blizzard is not trying to steal the show from valve, icefrog, or anyone else. Dota was not the first AoS (Aeon of Strife) type map to appear. Dota was simply the first one to appeal to a mass audience and inspire hard core competition. There were billions of AoS maps in the community, made by billions of authors, they all had their own strengths and weaknesses and no one owns the AoS scene.
Just because DotA (Defense of the Ancients) has become synonymous with AoS doesnt mean that DotA, icefrog, or valve has a trademark on the idea. Blizzard making an AoS type map and calling it Blizzard DotA (which i do not believe is the actual name, and is only used as a place holder so that people who see it will be able to identify with it more), is simply another game in a large genre. When the maker of Sotis created his game, no one accused him of copying anything. The same license should be given to Blizzard.
As for Left 2 Die, yeah thats a blatant rip off of valve.
As far as the blizzard marketplace, I think blizzard will simply go for a free market system. Release several smaller games with strong production values and see if players react to them favorably. The games with a strong positive reaction will get expanded upon, will get a paid team working really hard to make that game a strong worthwhile project and release it after for a small fee. The games with a negative reaction will be updated once or twice and then fazed out.
On October 24 2010 07:27 Goshawk. wrote: Could be kinda fun to screw around on, but I don't see it by any means as a serious competitor to any of the dota games out or coming out.
On October 24 2010 00:55 Varth wrote: Icefrog, while he did a pretty good job, certainly wasnt a great example of balancing. For many many years there was a clear tier of heroes, the best being pretty much AOE stun teams, along with blink daggers and such. He made a few heroes that were so badly balanced that teams didn't even have to waste a ban on the hero, because the tournament just made that hero unavailable.
That being said, I'm super excited over this, because even though it may not be as polished as DOTA 2, this will still be a welcome distraction when im exhaused from 1v1 play and want to screw around.
Examples? =/ Your opinion/idea of dota is just wrong. Even if there was a few imba heroes both teams had bans anyway.
Eh, he wasn't far off. Icefrog literally can't say anything to PotM, Bristleback, Spectre, PotM, TC, Batrider, Shadow Priest. Those were (some of the major) mistakes. Same with the Blink Dagger where every game devolved into the race to 2150 gold.
If you played a lot during 27-48b, then you would know.
On October 24 2010 03:24 TheYango wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that Blizzard is only doing this with the intention of making a casual custom map to show off the editor, and not with the intention of shoving into the AoS genre? Just look at the other maps showcased (Aiur Chef, Left 2 Die)--none of them look like they're going to be serious, persistently-updated projects, just something the dev team did for fun in their spare time.
In order to seriously compete with LoL/DotA/HoN, Blizzard would have to spend time and manpower to continuously add new content to this and keep it balanced. Considering that they ALREADY have to do this for SC2, that's extremely unlikely.
Yeah I'm surprised to see people taking this seriously as well.
yea the only thing keeping this back is the way custom games are created, there is no way of making an evenly skilled dota game without creating it privately and knowing your opponents and I mean come on, who goes to play dota thinking "I'm going to make 9 new friends and play dota with only them", that doesn't happen. If dota is going to succeed, the custom games needs to be reworked or they need to add in match making specifically for dota (while still allowing for it to be made in a custom game for practice). If there was a quick match ability for dota that would be superb as there could be rankings and actually match people up based on skill and how much they've played.
They don't allow you to make game names so people wouldn't know what modes the host is going to pick since there's like mirror/mid only/1v1/default/normal/SvS/random draft/and some modes that let each team pick bans
On October 23 2010 17:51 Mimus wrote: As a long time DotA player I think this is a completely selfish move by Blizzard. To step in and try to hijack a series that IceFrog has put SOOOOO many hours into and is just coming to fruition in the form of DotA2 (by valve) is ludicrous and rude. There is no doubt that the hard core community will stick with ice frog but I fear this will split the soft core community and hurt the DotA scene as a whole. Boo you blizzard.
Yeah I was just thinking the same thing. You have to wonder too, I'm pretty sure blizzard approached icefrog about it and so either he turned them down, or they found out he was already working with valve in which case blizzard is like "well, let's just make an exact same game anyways" Yeah it's on a different engine, but with so many dota remakes(HoN/LoL) etc just seems like a waste. Next thing you know blizzard will be suing icefrog for IP rights lolzzzzzzzzzzzz
well if there is going to be competitive dota, then players will simply choose the most competitive one, doesn't matter what the casual players play, and it's clear BDOTA will be for them. There is already dota, hon and lol, so I don't understand why people are getting pissed about blizzard when it's already been copied and made money off of. Hon charged to buy their game and guaranteed valve will as well and yet people aren't mad about hon? hypocrites.
On October 23 2010 17:51 Mimus wrote: As a long time DotA player I think this is a completely selfish move by Blizzard. To step in and try to hijack a series that IceFrog has put SOOOOO many hours into and is just coming to fruition in the form of DotA2 (by valve) is ludicrous and rude. There is no doubt that the hard core community will stick with ice frog but I fear this will split the soft core community and hurt the DotA scene as a whole. Boo you blizzard.
Yeah I was just thinking the same thing. You have to wonder too, I'm pretty sure blizzard approached icefrog about it and so either he turned them down, or they found out he was already working with valve in which case blizzard is like "well, let's just make an exact same game anyways" Yeah it's on a different engine, but with so many dota remakes(HoN/LoL) etc just seems like a waste. Next thing you know blizzard will be suing icefrog for IP rights lolzzzzzzzzzzzz
Let's just say Blizzard and Icefrog don't like each other too much. Nothing serious, but the chances of them working together was next to nothing.
TBH, I was thinking about buying SC2 when I got back from my vacation, but now I will for sure buy it.
That was one of the reason I bought TFT back in the day, was for DoTA, and I wouldn't be surprised if more people did the same thing, or still do it today. So this is just smart marketing if anything, to not only show off the map editor, but to get people who buy these games only for custom maps.
On October 23 2010 15:29 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: [.....]
I'm personally quite excited. DotA is a great game, and it's community is very appealing. What I'm most excited about though, is playing as many of the Blizzard icons, such as Raynor or Kerrigan, Decard Cain or Thrall, and even real throwbacks like Medivh, or that black ghost from the Vanilla Starcraft, I forget his name.
Anyway, should be a great mod, and I can't wait to see more updates in the future
Theres a difference between NA and Europe DotA scene
On October 23 2010 15:29 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: [.....]
I'm personally quite excited. DotA is a great game, and it's community is very appealing. What I'm most excited about though, is playing as many of the Blizzard icons, such as Raynor or Kerrigan, Decard Cain or Thrall, and even real throwbacks like Medivh, or that black ghost from the Vanilla Starcraft, I forget his name.
Anyway, should be a great mod, and I can't wait to see more updates in the future
Theres a difference between NA and Europe DotA scene
Oh please, you are trading "lolumad" variants for "fuck you [insert nationality/ethnicity here]" here. Don't give me that bullshit that Euros are more mannered than NA.
On October 23 2010 15:29 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: [.....]
I'm personally quite excited. DotA is a great game, and it's community is very appealing. What I'm most excited about though, is playing as many of the Blizzard icons, such as Raynor or Kerrigan, Decard Cain or Thrall, and even real throwbacks like Medivh, or that black ghost from the Vanilla Starcraft, I forget his name.
Anyway, should be a great mod, and I can't wait to see more updates in the future
Theres a difference between NA and Europe DotA scene
Oh please, you are trading "lolumad" variants for "fuck you [insert nationality/ethnicity here]" here. Don't give me that bullshit that Euros are more mannered than NA.
Please learn to read correctly, I never judged the NA scene in any way. Jerk
On October 25 2010 00:05 Bosu wrote: I can't believe there is no gameplay footage of any of these mods at blizzcon o=
You really need gameplay footage to judge how another clone MOBA is going to be? Plus, watch the second Custom Map Panel video ~9:00 on www.sc2mapster.com it shows some stuff that will probably be in the BDoTA.
On October 25 2010 00:05 Bosu wrote: I can't believe there is no gameplay footage of any of these mods at blizzcon o=
You really need gameplay footage to judge how another clone MOBA is going to be? Plus, watch the second Custom Map Panel video ~9:00 on www.sc2mapster.com it shows some stuff that will probably be in the BDoTA.
Uh, Maybe I find it interesting ya schmuck. Nothing wrong with that. And really what I want to see more is left2die footage.
On October 23 2010 15:29 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: [.....]
I'm personally quite excited. DotA is a great game, and it's community is very appealing. What I'm most excited about though, is playing as many of the Blizzard icons, such as Raynor or Kerrigan, Decard Cain or Thrall, and even real throwbacks like Medivh, or that black ghost from the Vanilla Starcraft, I forget his name.
Anyway, should be a great mod, and I can't wait to see more updates in the future
Theres a difference between NA and Europe DotA scene
Oh please, you are trading "lolumad" variants for "fuck you [insert nationality/ethnicity here]" here. Don't give me that bullshit that Euros are more mannered than NA.
Please learn to read correctly, I never judged the NA scene in any way. Jerk
On October 24 2010 08:29 bjwithbraces wrote: You have to wonder too, I'm pretty sure blizzard approached icefrog about it and so either he turned them down
Nope, it´s the other way around. Icefrog approached Blizzard but they coulnd´t stand him/his ideas. He actually took turns with all the current "Dotaclones" but only Valve managed to tolerate him - barely: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/2010/10/truth.html
On October 23 2010 17:51 Mimus wrote: As a long time DotA player I think this is a completely selfish move by Blizzard. To step in and try to hijack a series that IceFrog has put SOOOOO many hours into and is just coming to fruition in the form of DotA2 (by valve) is ludicrous and rude. There is no doubt that the hard core community will stick with ice frog but I fear this will split the soft core community and hurt the DotA scene as a whole. Boo you blizzard.
what are you talking about?
there have been 3 full on games that have come out several months before Dota2 was even announced and tons of dota fans have flocked to them
On October 24 2010 08:29 bjwithbraces wrote: You have to wonder too, I'm pretty sure blizzard approached icefrog about it and so either he turned them down
Nope, it´s the other way around. Icefrog approached Blizzard but they coulnd´t stand him/his ideas. He actually took turns with all the current "Dotaclones" but only Valve managed to tolerate him - barely: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/2010/10/truth.html
Holy SHIT. I had wondered why neither S2 nor Riot had "Icefrog cred" - this answers THAT question. This makes me REALLY not want to touch Valve's DotA2 with a 10-foot pole.
On October 24 2010 08:29 bjwithbraces wrote: You have to wonder too, I'm pretty sure blizzard approached icefrog about it and so either he turned them down
Nope, it´s the other way around. Icefrog approached Blizzard but they coulnd´t stand him/his ideas. He actually took turns with all the current "Dotaclones" but only Valve managed to tolerate him - barely: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/2010/10/truth.html
I agree with Mimus, I play DotA and HoN (although not LoL) and its apparent that the community is already being split. I can understand Blizzard and I understand why they would want to create there own DotA, however I can't see why we as gamers need another DotA.
I do like the "smash brothers" idea of pairing iconic heroes against each other, but I think it would be better suited to a more platform style of game.
TL; DR: I suspect this will be bad overall for the DotA/HoN communities.
I'm pretty sure that Blizzard owns DotA, its under their terms and conditions. Suing Valve for making DOTA2 will not be an unlikely turn of events. Though I do think the current starcraft engine sucks for playing DotA. Having to press H instead of S to block creeps annoys me enough.
But all in all, SC2 Dota might not be balanced, but it should be fun.
And yes, icefrog did not create DotA. I remember RoC version of DotA coming out. Eul's version. The first version having a water elemental which could self heal, making stacking armor very effecting on him. Subsequently, there were 2 DotA- Allstars made at about the same time < roughly around the time of survivor allstars. 1 took flight though. and still icefrog was not the maker of it. He just inherited it over time. (I think he was the 3rd successor).
I do not understand the idea behind mixing sc2 and wc3 lore. I would never play such nonsense. Looked like an April's fool but it isn't anywhere near April so.. not even considering trying it. I hope they change their mind and make it based on sc2 lore only.
The amount of misinformation and ignorance in the Dota community is staggering. Also who cares how fractured the community gets, its really not a big deal, play whatever dota-ish game you want, there will likely be people for it.
for all the people concerned with this taking over HON or Dota I wouldn't be. I played it a lot at blizzcon and while it was quite fun it was deffinatley a more casual thing. It was like a way better version of the dota remake on Bnet right now, It is a great free addition to SC2 and I liked it.
On October 24 2010 08:29 bjwithbraces wrote: You have to wonder too, I'm pretty sure blizzard approached icefrog about it and so either he turned them down
Nope, it´s the other way around. Icefrog approached Blizzard but they coulnd´t stand him/his ideas. He actually took turns with all the current "Dotaclones" but only Valve managed to tolerate him - barely: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/2010/10/truth.html
i cant believe this is still circulating around. gullible people
Dunno why people don't like the DOTA community. Trolling and shit-talking the opposite team in TDA games was a huge part of the fun in DOTA. Take that out where everyone is GM would make DOTA boring, unless you're above cal level.
On October 24 2010 03:24 TheYango wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that Blizzard is only doing this with the intention of making a casual custom map to show off the editor, and not with the intention of shoving into the AoS genre? Just look at the other maps showcased (Aiur Chef, Left 2 Die)--none of them look like they're going to be serious, persistently-updated projects, just something the dev team did for fun in their spare time.
In order to seriously compete with LoL/DotA/HoN, Blizzard would have to spend time and manpower to continuously add new content to this and keep it balanced. Considering that they ALREADY have to do this for SC2, that's extremely unlikely.
I agree with this. I went to Blizzcon and got to try out these new maps. Blizzard's intentions, from what I can tell, are to just show the robust nature of the current map editor and some high level map designs from the pros using the editor. They're not trying to create a competitor to DOTA2 or LoL or HoN or whatever. They just wanted to make a fun game where you could take some iconic figures within their own universes and pit them against each other.
Having new UMS games with demo stations also helped give SC2 some more interest, as the con was mainly D3 focused so Blizzard probably wanted to still generate some hype over an already released game, since there weren't a whole ton of new things to announce or demo.
Now Starjeweled on the other hand, that game is really going to cause rifts into the competitive Bejeweled gaming scene.
On October 25 2010 16:07 Ganondorf wrote: I do not understand the idea behind mixing sc2 and wc3 lore. I would never play such nonsense. Looked like an April's fool but it isn't anywhere near April so.. not even considering trying it. I hope they change their mind and make it based on sc2 lore only.
It's a custom map, not a new chapter in the StarCraft storyline. They aren't mixing the lore, they're making a battle arena map where people play against eachother using heroes. They aren't having Kerrigan and Arthas stand on the frozen wastes of Icecrown battling Jim Raynor's Terran army backed up by the Scarlet Crusade's Holy Paladins. They can do whatever the hell they want in a custom map.
On October 24 2010 00:55 Varth wrote: Icefrog, while he did a pretty good job, certainly wasnt a great example of balancing. For many many years there was a clear tier of heroes, the best being pretty much AOE stun teams, along with blink daggers and such. He made a few heroes that were so badly balanced that teams didn't even have to waste a ban on the hero, because the tournament just made that hero unavailable.
That being said, I'm super excited over this, because even though it may not be as polished as DOTA 2, this will still be a welcome distraction when im exhaused from 1v1 play and want to screw around.
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Nobody likes the War3 DotA technical limitations, if anything, that's the one thing holding back DotA. The shitty netcode of B.net, the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals) along with the overall pretty crummy interface. Everyone will jump from War3 DotA to Valve DotA the minute it gets released, except some of the Asians, they'll most likely look for ways to pirate the shit.
It's very likely that Blizzard's DotA will gather decent amount of players that own SC2 and very few from other installations. While DotA 2 will probably hog a sizeable amount of users (unless about all) from HoN and some from others depending on their interest and financial situation.
Likely LoL isn't affected as much by all this since their free to play with microtransactions business model attracts quite a number of players from all over who don't want to drop a coin for a product or just enjoy their choices regarding the gameplay.
Olde DotA's fate is bit questionable, will people stay "loyal" to it and enjoy it due it being "free" or move on to the supposedly up to date version? Most of the transition from DotA to HoN and LoL has already happened so only possibly SC2 DotA and new DotA 2 can drain their playerbase.
Oh well, hopefully Blizz's own DotA turns out decently, though I'm not that much interested in it. Currently playing HoN and BLC, might go for DotA 2 should enough of my friends move on it. Kinda hope BLC gets decent amount of players when beta ends as current matchmaking is quite silly with massive skillrange due low population.
I think these customs are more of a tech demo then anything. There are a lot of popular customs currently that are just not very deep or polished. These will show how amazing customs can be if people put in extra work.
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Nobody likes the War3 DotA technical limitations, if anything, that's the one thing holding back DotA. The shitty netcode of B.net, the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals) along with the overall pretty crummy interface. Everyone will jump from War3 DotA to Valve DotA the minute it gets released, except some of the Asians, they'll most likely look for ways to pirate the shit.
While netcode could be an issue on bnet, what are you specifically referring to with "the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals)"? Obviously the editor has limitations, but in my experience the things that people claim as "limitations" are usually just those people not knowing how to do them.
(Some obvious ones, such as keyboard/mouse detection, aside)
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Nobody likes the War3 DotA technical limitations, if anything, that's the one thing holding back DotA. The shitty netcode of B.net, the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals) along with the overall pretty crummy interface. Everyone will jump from War3 DotA to Valve DotA the minute it gets released, except some of the Asians, they'll most likely look for ways to pirate the shit.
While netcode could be an issue on bnet, what are you specifically referring to with "the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals)"? Obviously the editor has limitations, but in my experience the things that people claim as "limitations" are usually just those people not knowing how to do them.
(Some obvious ones, such as keyboard/mouse detection, aside)
Let's use the example I gave, Triggered Heals. Instead of true invulnerability (which in itself creates issues), heroes have triggered heals to simulate invulnerability. Meaning instead of taking no damage from a X damaging event, you heal for X damage and then the X damage. Net result is 0 damage, so it's all good right? No. X can't be greater than your total HP and X can't put you over your max HP. That means you can't have pseudo-invulnerability at full HP, and you can't survive a skill that deals more damage than you have HP. Another side effect is that if X equals your current HP exactly, you will die and the triggered heals will not occur. Then there are fucked up interactions depending on the source of the X damage.
The triggered heals bullshit mostly comes out of the hardcoded concepts of invulnerability. The limitations comes from the hardcoded concepts already in the War3 engine and having to code around those "rules".
That's just triggered heals, there are MASSIVE issues with the RNG, specifically Blizzard's take on it. Hi CM's old ultimate, any bash-based or critical strike-based skill.
It doesn't matter much for stuff like ORPGs and what not, but when it comes to games like DotA, you have to break open the book and figure out how abilities interact. A lot of top players still don't understand how skills interact.
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Nobody likes the War3 DotA technical limitations, if anything, that's the one thing holding back DotA. The shitty netcode of B.net, the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals) along with the overall pretty crummy interface. Everyone will jump from War3 DotA to Valve DotA the minute it gets released, except some of the Asians, they'll most likely look for ways to pirate the shit.
While netcode could be an issue on bnet, what are you specifically referring to with "the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals)"? Obviously the editor has limitations, but in my experience the things that people claim as "limitations" are usually just those people not knowing how to do them.
(Some obvious ones, such as keyboard/mouse detection, aside)
Let's use the example I gave, Triggered Heals. Instead of true invulnerability (which in itself creates issues), heroes have triggered heals to simulate invulnerability. Meaning instead of taking no damage from a X damaging event, you heal for X damage and then the X damage. Net result is 0 damage, so it's all good right? No. X can't be greater than your total HP and X can't put you over your max HP. That means you can't have pseudo-invulnerability at full HP, and you can't survive a skill that deals more damage than you have HP. Another side effect is that if X equals your current HP exactly, you will die and the triggered heals will not occur. Then there are fucked up interactions depending on the source of the X damage.
The triggered heals bullshit mostly comes out of the hardcoded concepts of invulnerability. The limitations comes from the hardcoded concepts already in the War3 engine and having to code around those "rules".
That's just triggered heals, there are MASSIVE issues with the RNG, specifically Blizzard's take on it. Hi CM's old ultimate, any bash-based or critical strike-based skill.
It doesn't matter much for stuff like ORPGs and what not, but when it comes to games like DotA, you have to break open the book and figure out how abilities interact. A lot of top players still don't understand how skills interact.
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Nobody likes the War3 DotA technical limitations, if anything, that's the one thing holding back DotA. The shitty netcode of B.net, the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals) along with the overall pretty crummy interface. Everyone will jump from War3 DotA to Valve DotA the minute it gets released, except some of the Asians, they'll most likely look for ways to pirate the shit.
While netcode could be an issue on bnet, what are you specifically referring to with "the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals)"? Obviously the editor has limitations, but in my experience the things that people claim as "limitations" are usually just those people not knowing how to do them.
(Some obvious ones, such as keyboard/mouse detection, aside)
Let's use the example I gave, Triggered Heals. Instead of true invulnerability (which in itself creates issues), heroes have triggered heals to simulate invulnerability. Meaning instead of taking no damage from a X damaging event, you heal for X damage and then the X damage. Net result is 0 damage, so it's all good right? No. X can't be greater than your total HP and X can't put you over your max HP. That means you can't have pseudo-invulnerability at full HP, and you can't survive a skill that deals more damage than you have HP. Another side effect is that if X equals your current HP exactly, you will die and the triggered heals will not occur. Then there are fucked up interactions depending on the source of the X damage.
The triggered heals bullshit mostly comes out of the hardcoded concepts of invulnerability. The limitations comes from the hardcoded concepts already in the War3 engine and having to code around those "rules".
That's just triggered heals, there are MASSIVE issues with the RNG, specifically Blizzard's take on it. Hi CM's old ultimate, any bash-based or critical strike-based skill.
It doesn't matter much for stuff like ORPGs and what not, but when it comes to games like DotA, you have to break open the book and figure out how abilities interact. A lot of top players still don't understand how skills interact.
How about infinite armor?
That's hardly a problem, the only issue it creates is with Kunkka's Tidebringer and the only time that ever comes up is Guardian Angel. Cleave itself is hardcoded to ignore armor.
Easy to get around. Use a dummy ability based on the Amulet of Vitality (or whatever it's called) item's ability to temporarily increase the hero's life. Yes, it's annoying, but easy to do. This was solved years ago. (You can also just code most/all damage from scratch, which has become more popular in the last year or two. It's actually way less of a hassle than it sounds since good/interesting abilities tend to be triggered regardless)
Edit: And if I recall correctly the RNG is weighted, which is a good thing (to avoid extremely long chains of criticals etc).
On November 09 2010 04:58 Bosu wrote: I think these customs are more of a tech demo then anything. There are a lot of popular customs currently that are just not very deep or polished. These will show how amazing customs can be if people put in extra work.
The sc2 map editor has a lot of potential, pity its severely hampered by sc2's custom game system. There is no way anyone could play a fps or fighting game or anything innovative like that with 200ms+. Most people wouldn't even want to play dota 2.0 with that kind of ping.
If blizz replaced bnet 0.2's CG system with wc3's then I could see sc2 custom game scene going places other than nexus wars and tower defense.
People mostly played that kind of thing in Warcraft too and they plagued the map list just as much if not more; the difference is that the occasional no-name game would push its way in. I love that maps are now grouped under one heading (maybe a selector for modes to appease all the people complaining about not being able to put -AREM in their title or whatever?) but the popularity sort is quite annoying.
On November 09 2010 13:54 Pewt wrote: Easy to get around. Use a dummy ability based on the Amulet of Vitality (or whatever it's called) item's ability to temporarily increase the hero's life. Yes, it's annoying, but easy to do. This was solved years ago. (You can also just code most/all damage from scratch, which has become more popular in the last year or two. It's actually way less of a hassle than it sounds since good/interesting abilities tend to be triggered regardless)
Edit: And if I recall correctly the RNG is weighted, which is a good thing (to avoid extremely long chains of criticals etc).
You're kidding right?
Don't comment if you don't grasp basic EHP concepts. If you increase the HP based on incoming damage, you open it up to shennigans with armor increasing and decreasing during the duration (which like it or not does happen).
RNG weighted is good? So that's why they recoded Ogre Magi's ultimate...yeah.
Icefrog's employed because of DotA. I'm sorry, but if you're going to bitch about someone coming up with a new genre of game then other people duplicating it, that's really really REALLY dumb. I mean, I'm not trying to be rude, but that's just how video game evolution works. Everyone's copying someone in some respect. It's not like Doom gets royalties from everyone who makes an FPS. It's not like...who ever started RTS gets royalties for that. How is this an injustice to Icefrog? Plus, I hear hear he's really messing thing up over at Valve. Read this http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/.
On November 09 2010 13:54 Pewt wrote: Easy to get around. Use a dummy ability based on the Amulet of Vitality (or whatever it's called) item's ability to temporarily increase the hero's life. Yes, it's annoying, but easy to do. This was solved years ago. (You can also just code most/all damage from scratch, which has become more popular in the last year or two. It's actually way less of a hassle than it sounds since good/interesting abilities tend to be triggered regardless)
Edit: And if I recall correctly the RNG is weighted, which is a good thing (to avoid extremely long chains of criticals etc).
You're kidding right?
Don't comment if you don't grasp basic EHP concepts. If you increase the HP based on incoming damage, you open it up to shennigans with armor increasing and decreasing during the duration (which like it or not does happen).
Not an issue in practice, largely because unless the armour modification is tied to the damage itself it won't occur while your code is executing (that is, between the pre-damage trigger and the post-damage timer). Have you actually implemented these systems or just heard about them?
Also, as I mentioned, you can code the map's items and spells with these corner cases in mind from the very start and thus have damage systems not need to reduce damage so much as only deal it after factoring in reductions.
--
About the RNG, what was the issue with the Ogre Magi's ultimate (I take it it was that multicast passive? Haven't played DotA in ages)?
On November 09 2010 13:54 Pewt wrote: Easy to get around. Use a dummy ability based on the Amulet of Vitality (or whatever it's called) item's ability to temporarily increase the hero's life. Yes, it's annoying, but easy to do. This was solved years ago. (You can also just code most/all damage from scratch, which has become more popular in the last year or two. It's actually way less of a hassle than it sounds since good/interesting abilities tend to be triggered regardless)
Edit: And if I recall correctly the RNG is weighted, which is a good thing (to avoid extremely long chains of criticals etc).
You're kidding right?
Don't comment if you don't grasp basic EHP concepts. If you increase the HP based on incoming damage, you open it up to shennigans with armor increasing and decreasing during the duration (which like it or not does happen).
Not an issue in practice, largely because unless the armour modification is tied to the damage itself it won't occur while your code is executing (that is, between the pre-damage trigger and the post-damage timer). Have you actually implemented these systems or just heard about them?
Also, as I mentioned, you can code the map's items and spells with these corner cases in mind from the very start and thus have damage systems not need to reduce damage so much as only deal it after factoring in reductions.
--
About the RNG, what was the issue with the Ogre Magi's ultimate (I take it it was that multicast passive? Haven't played DotA in ages)?
No it doesn't, the mechanics sections at PlayDota.com have looked at this before. In practice it won't work because basically weird shit was happening in specific incidences namely with armor values. This was brought up before and the general consensus was no thanks. I will say that I am deferring to those with more knowledge of this than I do, but I trust them on it.
It was the multicast passive, it consistently got extremely streaky, same with CM's old ultimate. There were models on both before dota-allstars.com went down, but the RNG sucked for that reason.
Strange that the RNG got streaky--if it is properly weighted it should specifically prevent streaking (hence the point of weighting it). Did it actually get streaky or did people only notice the streaks (and thus remove the possibility of causing them at all)? After all, true randomness is often streaky.
As for the damage discussion, I don't trust the DotA people since I've seen them say stuff that I know is false (such as not being able to have orb effects stack thanks to engine limitations; sure, you have to code them manually, but that's a valid way of circumventing the problem). More importantly, I've implemented the overall damage handling systems myself and I could make and give you a demo map if you are interested which addresses the specific issue we are discussing and accounts for unit attacks, items, and spells.
On November 10 2010 05:08 Pewt wrote: Strange that the RNG got streaky--if it is properly weighted it should specifically prevent streaking (hence the point of weighting it). Did it actually get streaky or did people only notice the streaks (and thus remove the possibility of causing them at all)? After all, true randomness is often streaky.
As for the damage discussion, I don't trust the DotA people since I've seen them say stuff that I know is false (such as not being able to have orb effects stack thanks to engine limitations; sure, you have to code them manually, but that's a valid way of circumventing the problem). More importantly, I've implemented the overall damage handling systems myself and I could make and give you a demo map if you are interested which addresses the specific issue we are discussing and accounts for unit attacks, items, and spells.
You could code them to circumvent but there's a very good reason why we don't. I know the work around that you are talking about with vitality, but again, in specific cases with some hero's skills it created issues in rare (but enough) occasions. Then again, this was during the pre-patch versions so my info could be outdated.
As for Magi's ultimate, it doesn't matter if true randomness or the fake RNG was streaky, it got to the point where playing Magi was a complete crapshoot high % of Multicast or low % of Multicast, I don't remember the exact numbers but it was basically varied between the two extreme categories and very rarely in the middle. It got enough complaints where Icefrog did go ahead and recode the RNG in a very roundabout way.
Also, I am not saying Icefrog is a good coder, there's been a few times where his coding got him in trouble, most recently the infinite loop between Centaur's Double Edge and an active Blade Mail.
Ah, alright, if it was stuck on the extremes that would make sense. It's just that people have very weird misconceptions about true randomness and will often expect things like, say, flipping 6 heads in a row to be much less likely than they actually are (although a weighted RNG should reduce streaks, so if it was that common then there's something wrong). As I said, I haven't played DotA in ages.
But yeah, you can definitely make triggered damage prevention (and anything else in DotA from the last time I saw it, and probably still) work perfectly fine with no problematic edge cases. You need to be fairly experienced with (v)Jass and the editor in general but it's certainly doable. I think many people would be surprised how much you can achieve with the editor when you're sufficiently bored (like myself and many other experienced (v)Jassers were/are).
Yeah... I think this could be bad for the WC3 DoTA. Blizzard's obviously going to try to stop Valve, but... I dunno who will win. Both companies have a good stake in the issue (DoTA was originally made with the WC3 Editor, yet Valve has Icefrog), so it could go either way in my opinion.
Nobody likes the War3 DotA technical limitations, if anything, that's the one thing holding back DotA. The shitty netcode of B.net, the shitty trigger limitations of the map editor (hello triggered heals) along with the overall pretty crummy interface. Everyone will jump from War3 DotA to Valve DotA the minute it gets released, except some of the Asians, they'll most likely look for ways to pirate the shit.
i dont think that a custom SC2 map and a standalone game are even in teh same market segment
On November 22 2010 05:34 motus wrote: So when is this and the other Blizz custom games coming out? :/
Considering every game release by Blizzard its gonna be released in about 1-3 years then add another year and a delay of 2-3 months, then do an official date.
On November 22 2010 05:34 motus wrote: So when is this and the other Blizz custom games coming out? :/
Considering every game release by Blizzard its gonna be released in about 1-3 years then add another year and a delay of 2-3 months, then do an official date.
would try it...when/if I get a better computer to actually run SC2 at a decent speed (that isn't like 5-10 fps on low settings)....
though I think I'd rather go for HoN (not LoL, nor DotA2. from what I hear from my brother who has experience with valve.......)
I'm still thinking that Blizzard isn't right in making a custom map for this, it'll pretty much have the same problems as the original DotA, such as reconnection issues, feeders/repeated leavers/etc... and prob skewed systems by other groups (for armor, lasthitting/deny system, etc, infinite lifesteal problems, etc)
strictly speaking, I'd rather Blizzard actually use more of their attention on the *real* starcraft. _NOT_ making and maintaining custom maps/etc.
On November 22 2010 05:34 motus wrote: So when is this and the other Blizz custom games coming out? :/
Considering every game release by Blizzard its gonna be released in about 1-3 years then add another year and a delay of 2-3 months, then do an official date.
Uh no. It should be out in a month or two.
Well I guess you werent right
Here's an update on it from browder interview:
Regarding Blizzard All-Stars, can Blizzard reveal any more details about it?
Dustin : (Dustin starts laughing at the mention of All-Stars) As of now, we are unable to reveal anything more. There is a lot of balancing we need to do, and a lot of details that we are still working on. In addition to carrying the name of Blizzard, this map also carries with it the name of DOTA, and because of that, we will definitely remain true to our reputation. Until we feel that the map is perfect enough, we won't be revealing any information about it.
What I can reveal though, is that we are in the process of fleshing out the details and contents, as well as testing the balance of the map.
On April 29 2011 01:27 ChiknAdobo wrote: So is this different from Storm of the Imperial Sanctum, that can be found in the custom maps now?
It's the same genre, but It's a completely different map. Blizz Dota is (surprise) developed by Blizzard, whereas SotiS is made by an independant mapmaker.
Considering that DotA and SSB have nothing in common besides me loving both with a passion, i dont see how you can be inspired by both.
This won't work, blizzard doesnt understand dota like icefrog does, and the dota community thats loyal after LoL and HoN came out arent going to switch over to something that isnt dota2.
On April 29 2011 10:59 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote: I assumed that SotiS was blizzard dota, lol
Considering that DotA and SSB have nothing in common besides me loving both with a passion, i dont see how you can be inspired by both.
if you watched the video and listened, the connotation with blizz dota and ssb is that you get an "all-star" lineup of characters from previous blizzard games to choose from such as sylvannas and kerrigan who are from two completely different worlds.
GDI, nothing ruins a great thread like this more than a f**king centipde on the wall. BRB.
Also looking forward to this, hope it can turn out well. Mafia is getting old (not quickly, but slightly).
Edit: The centipede is slain and SotIS (or w/e) is just an imposter of DotA (as is HoN and LoL - while League tried to be its own game with its own lore, the balance team of the game is basically trash and HoN is basically a complete DotA copy/paste with their own extremely OP heroes and again, poor balancing). Hopefully Valve's DotA 2 will have the same balancing as the original DotA, and hopefully will not have to copy/paste many (if not any) heroes from the original.
But I have high hopes for Blizzard's DotA. I'm hoping they make their own very unique characters and work EXTREMELY hard to balance it and make the UI friendly to newer users (ie recommended items/tips/hints/guides?)l
On April 29 2011 13:07 Sprungjeezy wrote: GDI, nothing ruins a great thread like this more than a f**king centipde on the wall. BRB.
Also looking forward to this, hope it can turn out well. Mafia is getting old (not quickly, but slightly).
Edit: The centipede is slain and SotIS (or w/e) is just an imposter of DotA (as is HoN and LoL - while League tried to be its own game with its own lore, the balance team of the game is basically trash and HoN is basically a complete DotA copy/paste with their own extremely OP heroes and again, poor balancing). Hopefully Valve's DotA 2 will have the same balancing as the original DotA, and hopefully will not have to copy/paste many (if not any) heroes from the original.
But I have high hopes for Blizzard's DotA. I'm hoping they make their own very unique characters and work EXTREMELY hard to balance it and make the UI friendly to newer users (ie recommended items/tips/hints/guides?)l
Not sure what you've been hearing about DotA 2, but since Icefrog is pretty much heading the production of DotA 2, along with what I've seen in previews and "leaks," DotA 2 will have a good amount (if not all) the heroes of DotA copy/pasted over except probably with some updates/tweaks.
On April 29 2011 13:07 Sprungjeezy wrote: GDI, nothing ruins a great thread like this more than a f**king centipde on the wall. BRB.
Also looking forward to this, hope it can turn out well. Mafia is getting old (not quickly, but slightly).
Edit: The centipede is slain and SotIS (or w/e) is just an imposter of DotA (as is HoN and LoL - while League tried to be its own game with its own lore, the balance team of the game is basically trash and HoN is basically a complete DotA copy/paste with their own extremely OP heroes and again, poor balancing). Hopefully Valve's DotA 2 will have the same balancing as the original DotA, and hopefully will not have to copy/paste many (if not any) heroes from the original.
But I have high hopes for Blizzard's DotA. I'm hoping they make their own very unique characters and work EXTREMELY hard to balance it and make the UI friendly to newer users (ie recommended items/tips/hints/guides?)l
Not sure what you've been hearing about DotA 2, but since Icefrog is pretty much heading the production of DotA 2, along with what I've seen in previews and "leaks," DotA 2 will have a good amount (if not all) the heroes of DotA copy/pasted over except probably with some updates/tweaks.
Not sure what you've been hearing about DotA 2, but post some sources. Don't meant to sound like a dick, but the last bit of information that I have seen was from 2010. I would be surprised if Valve/Icefrog/legit source has said anything remotely close to that.
Icefrog has said that all the dota heroes will be copy pasted, while also making improvements to some which would not have been possible due to the war3 engine limitations..
Icefrog also said he will is no longer making DotA 2. He said Valve asked if he would mind if they finished the game and just gave him his share of the money and he decided that was cool with him.
On April 29 2011 13:07 Sprungjeezy wrote: GDI, nothing ruins a great thread like this more than a f**king centipde on the wall. BRB.
Also looking forward to this, hope it can turn out well. Mafia is getting old (not quickly, but slightly).
Edit: The centipede is slain and SotIS (or w/e) is just an imposter of DotA (as is HoN and LoL - while League tried to be its own game with its own lore, the balance team of the game is basically trash and HoN is basically a complete DotA copy/paste with their own extremely OP heroes and again, poor balancing). Hopefully Valve's DotA 2 will have the same balancing as the original DotA, and hopefully will not have to copy/paste many (if not any) heroes from the original.
But I have high hopes for Blizzard's DotA. I'm hoping they make their own very unique characters and work EXTREMELY hard to balance it and make the UI friendly to newer users (ie recommended items/tips/hints/guides?)l
If you actually played HoN you would know the game is very different from DotA
On April 29 2011 13:07 Sprungjeezy wrote: GDI, nothing ruins a great thread like this more than a f**king centipde on the wall. BRB.
Also looking forward to this, hope it can turn out well. Mafia is getting old (not quickly, but slightly).
Edit: The centipede is slain and SotIS (or w/e) is just an imposter of DotA (as is HoN and LoL - while League tried to be its own game with its own lore, the balance team of the game is basically trash and HoN is basically a complete DotA copy/paste with their own extremely OP heroes and again, poor balancing). Hopefully Valve's DotA 2 will have the same balancing as the original DotA, and hopefully will not have to copy/paste many (if not any) heroes from the original.
But I have high hopes for Blizzard's DotA. I'm hoping they make their own very unique characters and work EXTREMELY hard to balance it and make the UI friendly to newer users (ie recommended items/tips/hints/guides?)l
what? league's lore had nothing to do with anything
actually HoN has more lore background from savage/savage2
also, Hon is fairly balanced. the worst off they get is whenever a new hero comes out it tends to need a nerf or buff
On April 29 2011 13:07 Sprungjeezy wrote: GDI, nothing ruins a great thread like this more than a f**king centipde on the wall. BRB.
Also looking forward to this, hope it can turn out well. Mafia is getting old (not quickly, but slightly).
Edit: The centipede is slain and SotIS (or w/e) is just an imposter of DotA (as is HoN and LoL - while League tried to be its own game with its own lore, the balance team of the game is basically trash and HoN is basically a complete DotA copy/paste with their own extremely OP heroes and again, poor balancing). Hopefully Valve's DotA 2 will have the same balancing as the original DotA, and hopefully will not have to copy/paste many (if not any) heroes from the original.
But I have high hopes for Blizzard's DotA. I'm hoping they make their own very unique characters and work EXTREMELY hard to balance it and make the UI friendly to newer users (ie recommended items/tips/hints/guides?)l
Not sure what you've been hearing about DotA 2, but since Icefrog is pretty much heading the production of DotA 2, along with what I've seen in previews and "leaks," DotA 2 will have a good amount (if not all) the heroes of DotA copy/pasted over except probably with some updates/tweaks.
Not sure what you've been hearing about DotA 2, but post some sources. Don't meant to sound like a dick, but the last bit of information that I have seen was from 2010. I would be surprised if Valve/Icefrog/legit source has said anything remotely close to that.
Assuming you guys are talking about the DotA 2 roster specifically, I dug up a very old source from October saying:
DotA-Allstars' roster of 100+ heroes is being brought over in its entirety. The single map games take place on is functionally identical to the one that you can download for free today in the Warcraft III mod. Items, skills, and upgrade paths are unchanged. Some hero skills work slightly better due to being freed from the now-ancient Warcraft III engine, but Dota 2 will be instantly familiar to any DotA player.
Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
On April 29 2011 15:14 Sprungjeezy wrote: Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
I don't know about LoL, and couldn't care less about that game, but saying HoN can't make it into e-sports is as retarded as saying BW can't make it into e-sports.
Gosugamers, Samsung, ESL, Steelseries, Team EG and a whole lot of other teams and sponsors have dedicated HoN tournaments and huge prize pools. There are tournaments like every day, so I don't know what you're talking about. GTFO this thread.
On April 29 2011 15:14 Sprungjeezy wrote: Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
I don't know about LoL, and couldn't care less about that game, but saying HoN can't make it into e-sports is as retarded as saying BW can't make it into e-sports.
Gosugamers, Samsung, ESL, Steelseries, Team EG and a whole lot of other teams and sponsors have dedicated HoN tournaments and huge prize pools. There are tournaments like every day, so I don't know what you're talking about. GTFO this thread.
You speak about and praise HoN in the BLIZZARD DOTA thread and you tell others to "GTFO"? What the hell is wrong with you? You're pretty rude.
On April 29 2011 15:14 Sprungjeezy wrote: Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
I don't know about LoL, and couldn't care less about that game, but saying HoN can't make it into e-sports is as retarded as saying BW can't make it into e-sports.
Gosugamers, Samsung, ESL, Steelseries, Team EG and a whole lot of other teams and sponsors have dedicated HoN tournaments and huge prize pools. There are tournaments like every day, so I don't know what you're talking about. GTFO this thread.
You speak about and praise HoN in the BLIZZARD DOTA thread and you tell others to "GTFO"? What the hell is wrong with you? You're pretty rude.
I wasn't really praising HoN, I'm just telling the truth.
And yes there is lots to praise about HoN. It's Dota Hardcore mode. 1400 pugs in there will CRUSH any Dota pug in Clan TDA or whatever "premium" league that Dota has these days. Game is so competitive that anyone saying HoN has no e-sports scene deserves to be smacked. And don't go around calling people rude. Stop backseat moderating k?
But about Blizzard Dota, it'll be great for casual players but I don't see them competing with HoN or Dota 2 in e-sports. They could use the fact that it's under the SC2 platform to leverage its e-sports scene but we'll have to see. I still think Blizzard will mostly focus on SC2 itself.
On April 29 2011 15:14 Sprungjeezy wrote: Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
I don't know about LoL, and couldn't care less about that game, but saying HoN can't make it into e-sports is as retarded as saying BW can't make it into e-sports.
Gosugamers, Samsung, ESL, Steelseries, Team EG and a whole lot of other teams and sponsors have dedicated HoN tournaments and huge prize pools. There are tournaments like every day, so I don't know what you're talking about. GTFO this thread.
You speak about and praise HoN in the BLIZZARD DOTA thread and you tell others to "GTFO"? What the hell is wrong with you? You're pretty rude.
I wasn't really praising HoN, I'm just telling the truth.
And yes there is lots to praise about HoN. It's Dota Hardcore mode. 1400 pugs in there will CRUSH any Dota pug in Clan TDA or whatever "premium" league that Dota has these days. Game is so competitive that anyone saying HoN has no e-sports scene deserves to be smacked. And don't go around calling people rude. Stop backseat moderating k?
But about Blizzard Dota, it'll be great for casual players but I don't see them competing with HoN or Dota 2 in e-sports. They could use the fact that it's under the SC2 platform to leverage its e-sports scene but we'll have to see. I still think Blizzard will mostly focus on SC2 itself.
You're a giant dick, I'm not being rude, I'm just telling the truth(you can figure out what happened here). Fact is you keep saying stuff about HoN that no one really cares about, atleast not in this thread, nor am I contributing but this isn't what I expected to read when I saw the thread pop up again.
If blizzard puts enough time in their version of dota it'll be great for sure.
On April 29 2011 15:14 Sprungjeezy wrote: Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
I don't know about LoL, and couldn't care less about that game, but saying HoN can't make it into e-sports is as retarded as saying BW can't make it into e-sports.
Gosugamers, Samsung, ESL, Steelseries, Team EG and a whole lot of other teams and sponsors have dedicated HoN tournaments and huge prize pools. There are tournaments like every day, so I don't know what you're talking about. GTFO this thread.
You speak about and praise HoN in the BLIZZARD DOTA thread and you tell others to "GTFO"? What the hell is wrong with you? You're pretty rude.
I wasn't really praising HoN, I'm just telling the truth.
And yes there is lots to praise about HoN. It's Dota Hardcore mode. 1400 pugs in there will CRUSH any Dota pug in Clan TDA or whatever "premium" league that Dota has these days. Game is so competitive that anyone saying HoN has no e-sports scene deserves to be smacked. And don't go around calling people rude. Stop backseat moderating k?
But about Blizzard Dota, it'll be great for casual players but I don't see them competing with HoN or Dota 2 in e-sports. They could use the fact that it's under the SC2 platform to leverage its e-sports scene but we'll have to see. I still think Blizzard will mostly focus on SC2 itself.
You're a giant dick, I'm not being rude, I'm just telling the truth(you can figure out what happened here). Fact is you keep saying stuff about HoN that no one really cares about, atleast not in this thread, nor am I contributing but this isn't what I expected to read when I saw the thread pop up again.
If blizzard puts enough time in their version of dota it'll be great for sure.
I saw an ignorant post, I corrected it. That is all.
On April 29 2011 15:14 Sprungjeezy wrote: Thanks for that source, I had only heard that it was probable that the DotA original heroes would be transferred.
As for HoN. I played it during beta and play it now and if you think it is different from DotA, you are only fooling yourself. As for HoN's balancing, it is better than League of Legends balancing, but it is still pretty bad. HoN relies too much on forum QQ when it does its patching. It doesn't know how to see when the community hasn't put forth effort in learning to deal with things and when it nerfs it removes the hero from any usefulness. I suppose this may be a lot of my opinion but I feel its pretty accurate, I play with a lot of pretty good players in my gaming community (~2k ELO in both League and HoN at seperate times) and in seems the general consensus is that League and HoN have poor balancing teams/ideas.
I could go on for days on whats wrong with these games, they're both fun, but could never make it as an esport and hopefully DotA 2 will be able to make it (and it seems it will with all of its features). And hopefully DotA 2 will not get the atrocious community that seems to revolve around ever game (besides SC2).
And I think DotA 2 could easily turn a good long term profit by making the game cheap (as it seems to require very little (in comparison to enitrely new games) work) and catering to the people who are wary to jump ship and make the DotA 2 community very large from the get go and profit from it becoming an esport (as many of us would love to see).
Gosh, I hope no one minds that we seemed to have de-railed a necro'd thread.
I don't know about LoL, and couldn't care less about that game, but saying HoN can't make it into e-sports is as retarded as saying BW can't make it into e-sports.
Gosugamers, Samsung, ESL, Steelseries, Team EG and a whole lot of other teams and sponsors have dedicated HoN tournaments and huge prize pools. There are tournaments like every day, so I don't know what you're talking about. GTFO this thread.
You speak about and praise HoN in the BLIZZARD DOTA thread and you tell others to "GTFO"? What the hell is wrong with you? You're pretty rude.
I wasn't really praising HoN, I'm just telling the truth.
And yes there is lots to praise about HoN. It's Dota Hardcore mode. 1400 pugs in there will CRUSH any Dota pug in Clan TDA or whatever "premium" league that Dota has these days. Game is so competitive that anyone saying HoN has no e-sports scene deserves to be smacked. And don't go around calling people rude. Stop backseat moderating k?
But about Blizzard Dota, it'll be great for casual players but I don't see them competing with HoN or Dota 2 in e-sports. They could use the fact that it's under the SC2 platform to leverage its e-sports scene but we'll have to see. I still think Blizzard will mostly focus on SC2 itself.
if DotA2 is the messiah to the genre as it touted to be then HoN will probably ultimately be left behind because its too similar to DotA. hon isnt anymore hardcore than dota, but the improved interface makes it a lot more likely to get games with better skilled people and contrary to what people say the games (and its players) are different.
and also the current international DotA scene is far more competitive than the HoN's scene because of the asian (chinese) scene
blizzard dota as it is cant be taken seriously as a competitive game since it will take a while for the game to be fleshed out and balanced properly, but it will probably be very fun for sc2 players that want to play customs. sometimes people just want to play something a little different but in the same game.
I believe it's being called "Blizzard All-Stars" rather than "Blizzard DotA", featuring characters from all of their franchises as heroes.
I personally can't wait. I don't have enough time to play both SC2 and HoN, and while HoN is a brilliant game, I'd rather play something similar within SC2 right now. SotIS is just...how do I say bad without saying bad? SotIS is just...unpolished.
If you actually played HoN you would know the game is very different from DotA
I've played DotA, and it's hardly different from DotA compared to DotA -- at least in the way that it's the closest "DotA clone" to DotA. The game's foundation was just a copy of DotA almost exactly, and even after when they started to add their own work to it, it is still vastly consisting of what's already in DotA.
@Ruscour
Yeah it's called All-Stars now, I like that name... Blizzard DotA felt more like a placeholder name, which I'm sure it was.
And I agree, obviously a lot of time was put into SotiS; it's a dota game where the heroes have a more starcrafty feel... but it is very very unpolished (and on top of that, they probably need to scrap the entire map terrain wise and make it bigger as it is way too cramped).
I don't understand why SotIS being unpolished in an unacceptable thing...they have only 2 developers and the game is pretty damn new. Even with only 2 developers they are regular updates/patches/fixes and they really do listen to their community. I play sotis and I am having such a blast with the game. Previous patches definitely looked unpolished but the newest patch really polished up the game.
I really recommend anybody to get into sotis because the game is so much fun. Personally I think the only slack about sotis are from those LoL or HoN players who dislike the idea of people switching to another game that is not theirs. It was the same with BW fans and SC2 when it first came out...SC2 was slagged so much before it came it out. Same I feel with sotis. A lot of people have played LoL or HoN for so long that anything new is a threat that will take people away from their game of choice (lol or hon). So of course those people are going to find faults with sotis, just like BW players found faults with sc2, just like smash bros melee players found faults with brawl, and so forth. The thing about sotis however is that they definitely included a lot of the skill demanding qualies such as denying which was removed from LoL so the game definitely is not just an easier version of previous AoS games, which shows that it has a nice and high skill ceiling.
Point being I love sotis, I'm practically addicted to it, and I think others should give it more of a chance. I know it's quite popular as it is but I'd really like to see it get more well known because I think it can definitely turn into one of the best AoS games out there, and already is amazing as it is.
On July 27 2011 06:52 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: I don't understand why SotIS being unpolished in an unacceptable thing...they have only 2 developers and the game is pretty damn new. Even with only 2 developers they are regular updates/patches/fixes and they really do listen to their community. I play sotis and I am having such a blast with the game. Previous patches definitely looked unpolished but the newest patch really polished up the game.
I really recommend anybody to get into sotis because the game is so much fun. Personally I think the only slack about sotis are from those LoL or HoN players who dislike the idea of people switching to another game that is not theirs. It was the same with BW fans and SC2 when it first came out...SC2 was slagged so much before it came it out. Same I feel with sotis. A lot of people have played LoL or HoN for so long that anything new is a threat that will take people away from their game of choice (lol or hon). So of course those people are going to find faults with sotis, just like BW players found faults with sc2, just like smash bros melee players found faults with brawl, and so forth. The thing about sotis however is that they definitely included a lot of the skill demanding qualies such as denying which was removed from LoL so the game definitely is not just an easier version of previous AoS games, which shows that it has a nice and high skill ceiling.
Point being I love sotis, I'm practically addicted to it, and I think others should give it more of a chance. I know it's quite popular as it is but I'd really like to see it get more well known because I think it can definitely turn into one of the best AoS games out there, and already is amazing as it is.
Great point. I've moved over to LoL recently, but sotis is so under-appreciated. Even when it was relatively new and rough, it was enjoyable.
Interesting, it seems they're really focussing on making the game more intuitive and newb-friendly. My first guess is that you can't deny your own creeps and the shop has been totally reworked.
Other than that, I'm curious to know what they're doing to ''stop people from screaming at each other''. Maybe they're removing K/D stats, replacing that with global team kills stats, but that wouldnt solve any problem.
Other than that, I'm curious to know what they're doing to ''stop people from screaming at each other''. Maybe they're removing K/D stats, replacing that with global team kills stats, but that wouldnt solve any problem.
They're making it a single player game. Can't scream at anyone if there's nobody around...
Other than that, I'm curious to know what they're doing to ''stop people from screaming at each other''. Maybe they're removing K/D stats, replacing that with global team kills stats, but that wouldnt solve any problem.
They're making it a single player game. Can't scream at anyone if there's nobody around...
People shouldn't think of Blizz dota as an actual competitor alongside dota2/lol etc. its just another fun custom map like starjeweled, don't start speculating whether it will be the next big esport or something lol
Other than that, I'm curious to know what they're doing to ''stop people from screaming at each other''. Maybe they're removing K/D stats, replacing that with global team kills stats, but that wouldnt solve any problem.
They're making it a single player game. Can't scream at anyone if there's nobody around...
Blizzard dota just seems like it is made to showcase the Galaxy editor and a for fun kinda thing, which it probably is. Blizzard doesn't have any experience in the genre so it makes sense, but nonetheless I will check it out.
On August 22 2011 21:54 taLbuk wrote: they lost me at "Blizzard hopes to make its DOTA mod more accessible to newcomers"
You know it's not very accessible right? Things like last-hitting, denying, even recipes for items and hidden runes are very unintuitive, unlike the concepts in BW/SC and StarJeweled. If they want to target complete DotA-virgins, then good for them. Remember SC2 still has many years ahead of it and as long as it can be pirated, will be played by many, many new gamers in the next decade.
In fact, contrary to the perceived view, I think there are many improvements to be made to DotA-type games. The concept of sitting and last-hitting for an extended period, with denying and lane control etc, is quite weird and boring. I remember the old days when AoS was initially released in WC3 and people only cared about killing and nuking each other with their skills, rather than have an educated playerbase focusing on farming all day long to be good in the lategame.
Other than that, I'm curious to know what they're doing to ''stop people from screaming at each other''. Maybe they're removing K/D stats, replacing that with global team kills stats, but that wouldnt solve any problem.
They're making it a single player game. Can't scream at anyone if there's nobody around...
Where'd they say that?
Anyways, the best way to stop people from shouting at each other is to limit communications. At least that seems to be the standard Blizzard way of doing it. Like for example no cross-faction chat in WoW, no chatchannels in SC2, and so on. I don't know if that is necessarily a bad thing, since a lot of people are very stupid, and you get to avoid them that way. But you sadly also have no contact with the people you meet who are not very stupid. Even if they are the minority.
dota2 is already looking to impressive. blizzard dota will just be a pub custom newbs might play every now and again. dota 2 is where competitive moba will stay!
Blizzard Dota was awful from the looks of it at Blizzcon last year.
It was all made in the SC2 map maker. It was just a custom map in a shitty game (bnet2/sc2)
I really don't know what they were thinking. It's kind of humorous how they have completely missed the boat on dota. I mean here's this map that is played by millions of people on your game. More people play it than they do the actual game it was designed in, and they completely failed to take note and realize there's potential there.
They have a ton of work ahead of them if they want to make it comparable to what the competition offers, let alone better. Frankly I don't see it happening.
I don't see why Blizzard has to compete with the other DOTA's. It is supposed to to just be a fun free map with all of the Blizzard characters from past and present games. Either way it will be fun to try but not get serious about.
It would be cool if they rebooted blizz dota on its own instead of off the sc2 map editor. i don't think it should be a whole new franchise on its own tho, because MOBA games doesn't really compare to diablo/sc2/warcraft franchise. it shoudl always be a free battle.net game that's like a side game... thats how i feel anways. just cuz blizz making its own dota game as one of their main franchise i just lose some respect IMO
i dont see any way to stop team mates from screaming their ass off at you. There's one way I was thinking about... it's like more of a castle defense (using destructible rocks) and games become less valuble. say players can join or leave whenever they want. you can do 3v4 sometimes when u r missing a person, and that person can join in anytime to make it 4v4.
blizzard can also make it a 1v1, some 2v2, 3v3, etc.
it's likely all the screaming has to do with 5v5 games where too many crap happens. its fun but it also takes the game to the 60min mark and none of those has ever been attractive to watch/play.
here's hoping blizz dota will be fun cuz dota 2 is completely the same as dota (WTF?) indestinguishable graphics -_-
Actually making it simpler makes a lot of sense IMO. It's more fun for casual ums gamers to have a simpler version like that and the dota community badly needs a noob friendly way to get people into the game.
On August 23 2011 01:35 strongandbig wrote: Actually making it simpler makes a lot of sense IMO. It's more fun for casual ums gamers to have a simpler version like that and the dota community badly needs a noob friendly way to get people into the game.
On August 23 2011 01:35 strongandbig wrote: Actually making it simpler makes a lot of sense IMO. It's more fun for casual ums gamers to have a simpler version like that and the dota community badly needs a noob friendly way to get people into the game.
Not to mention it means it is easier to balance. If there were 500 heroes with 5 abilities and 1000 items it'd be difficult to balance, and most heroes/items wouldn't even be used after a month. Instead of a group of lets say 12 heroes, who can constantly be adjusted to maintain balance, you'd have 500, where balance doesn't even matter, and 1 hero could be significantly better than 50.
On August 23 2011 01:35 strongandbig wrote: Actually making it simpler makes a lot of sense IMO. It's more fun for casual ums gamers to have a simpler version like that and the dota community badly needs a noob friendly way to get people into the game.
Not to mention it means it is easier to balance. If there were 500 heroes with 5 abilities and 1000 items it'd be difficult to balance, and most heroes/items wouldn't even be used after a month. Instead of a group of lets say 12 heroes, who can constantly be adjusted to maintain balance, you'd have 500, where balance doesn't even matter, and 1 hero could be significantly better than 50.
they tried that already. it's called Demigod. it got boring extremely fast with it's... eight? heroes? more heroes are always better. it's not that hard making a hero balanced. whats hard is coming up with new ideas.
What if they blatanly Copy the wc3 dota but make it better with good ui and superior graphics and add a tutorial or even a coaching system ? What if they added a lan option and new heroes. ? Wait a minute that is Dota 2.
Blizzard can do Dota 2 better than valve does if they start working hard on it. Valve shouldnt waste its time while many ppl are still walting for hl2 ep3.
then im sold. i hate farming when it comes to hon/dota. why am i farming for 40 minutes and 20 minute actual combat?
some suggestions: remove level. remove exp by creep. remove items.
add 10+ more skills to each character.
rework tower defense.
this way, u only need 8-15 chars, more casual, no fricken FARMING, killing incentitives = better timing, and knocking the other player all the way back (u see this already when knocking out towers after wiping the the other team out). games arent 1hr+. capture the flag. i can dream cant I
On August 23 2011 07:04 IveReturned wrote: What if they blatanly Copy the wc3 dota but make it better with good ui and superior graphics and add a tutorial or even a coaching system ? What if they added a lan option and new heroes. ? Wait a minute that is Dota 2.
Blizzard can do Dota 2 better than valve does if they start working hard on it. Valve shouldnt waste its time while many ppl are still walting for hl2 ep3.
From what i have seen from Dota2 Valve did everything but not "wasting its time".
Edit: I think Blizzard Dota is basically gonna be the way for Sc2 players to find into MOBA games but i cant see them having the potential playerbase to be big if there is HoN/LoL/Dota2 around.
On August 23 2011 07:04 IveReturned wrote: What if they blatanly Copy the wc3 dota but make it better with good ui and superior graphics and add a tutorial or even a coaching system ? What if they added a lan option and new heroes. ? Wait a minute that is Dota 2.
Blizzard can do Dota 2 better than valve does if they start working hard on it. Valve shouldnt waste its time while many ppl are still walting for hl2 ep3.
From what i have seen from Dota2 Valve did everything but not "wasting its time".
Edit: I think Blizzard Dota is basically gonna be the way for Sc2 players to find into MOBA games.
Ep3 is definitely more important than Dota 2 IMO
Edit: youre right about your second statement but Dota Will definitely help selling hots "why not buy Dota wlth some other maps ?"
EPT
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