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On January 26 2014 23:29 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 23:18 deth2munkies wrote:On January 26 2014 22:34 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 17:15 deth2munkies wrote:
Random thought inspired by a conversation I had:
Enduring ideal in Modern with all the new enchantment creatures, mainly the gods...perhaps viable? Sure as hell a better way to win than Form of the Dragon. You could. But what card is as slot efficient as Form of the Dragon for being an actual win condition? Can't see how, say, Karametra wins you a game... Mind Cage and the Mind Control enchantments turn on Thassa. 5/6 unblockable indestructible should take care of it. Needing to have 0 cards in hand which turns off your own Meishin, the Mind Cage and opening yourself to being blown out by popular cards like Path to Exile in addition to original weakness of Enchantment hate seems questionable. Paying 2 a turn is iffy but then again you're not casting much anyway due to Epic so I guess that's passable (but leave you weak to land destruction).
You don't need to have 0 cards in hand at all.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 27 2014 00:14 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 23:29 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 23:18 deth2munkies wrote:On January 26 2014 22:34 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 17:15 deth2munkies wrote:
Random thought inspired by a conversation I had:
Enduring ideal in Modern with all the new enchantment creatures, mainly the gods...perhaps viable? Sure as hell a better way to win than Form of the Dragon. You could. But what card is as slot efficient as Form of the Dragon for being an actual win condition? Can't see how, say, Karametra wins you a game... Mind Cage and the Mind Control enchantments turn on Thassa. 5/6 unblockable indestructible should take care of it. Needing to have 0 cards in hand which turns off your own Meishin, the Mind Cage and opening yourself to being blown out by popular cards like Path to Exile in addition to original weakness of Enchantment hate seems questionable. Paying 2 a turn is iffy but then again you're not casting much anyway due to Epic so I guess that's passable (but leave you weak to land destruction). You don't need to have 0 cards in hand at all.
But then having any more than 1 card in hand means you do less damage per turn than just having a singleton copy of Form of the Dragon in play unless I'm misunderstanding something. Putting in more enchantments to buff Thassa is then veering dangerously into the territory of cute but really inefficient.
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On January 27 2014 00:30 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 00:14 deth2munkies wrote:On January 26 2014 23:29 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 23:18 deth2munkies wrote:On January 26 2014 22:34 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 17:15 deth2munkies wrote:
Random thought inspired by a conversation I had:
Enduring ideal in Modern with all the new enchantment creatures, mainly the gods...perhaps viable? Sure as hell a better way to win than Form of the Dragon. You could. But what card is as slot efficient as Form of the Dragon for being an actual win condition? Can't see how, say, Karametra wins you a game... Mind Cage and the Mind Control enchantments turn on Thassa. 5/6 unblockable indestructible should take care of it. Needing to have 0 cards in hand which turns off your own Meishin, the Mind Cage and opening yourself to being blown out by popular cards like Path to Exile in addition to original weakness of Enchantment hate seems questionable. Paying 2 a turn is iffy but then again you're not casting much anyway due to Epic so I guess that's passable (but leave you weak to land destruction). You don't need to have 0 cards in hand at all. But then having any more than 1 card in hand means you do less damage per turn than just having a singleton copy of Form of the Dragon in play unless I'm misunderstanding something. Putting in more enchantments to buff Thassa is then veering dangerously into the territory of cute but really inefficient.
You don't need to kill them quickly, you're a prison deck. And I'd rather lose to them having 3-4 PoEs for my 3-4 Thassas than losing the game to 2 lightning bolts or bolt/electrolyze or something similar. There's just way too much burn for Form of the Dragon to ever work.
I'd throw in a Zombie infestation or something so I could dump my hand and kill them when I needed to, but otherwise keeping Meishin on 2-3 is usually good enough.
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So I just did a game as on MTGO with the unexpected results standard deck that i put back together, in 2 turns I played 3 progenitor mimics on my opponents reverant hunter, with mimics #2 and 3 targetting my mimic'd tokens, on my next turn after having all 3 it made 5 copies.
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On January 27 2014 01:04 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 00:30 MoonBear wrote:On January 27 2014 00:14 deth2munkies wrote:On January 26 2014 23:29 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 23:18 deth2munkies wrote:On January 26 2014 22:34 MoonBear wrote:On January 26 2014 17:15 deth2munkies wrote:
Random thought inspired by a conversation I had:
Enduring ideal in Modern with all the new enchantment creatures, mainly the gods...perhaps viable? Sure as hell a better way to win than Form of the Dragon. You could. But what card is as slot efficient as Form of the Dragon for being an actual win condition? Can't see how, say, Karametra wins you a game... Mind Cage and the Mind Control enchantments turn on Thassa. 5/6 unblockable indestructible should take care of it. Needing to have 0 cards in hand which turns off your own Meishin, the Mind Cage and opening yourself to being blown out by popular cards like Path to Exile in addition to original weakness of Enchantment hate seems questionable. Paying 2 a turn is iffy but then again you're not casting much anyway due to Epic so I guess that's passable (but leave you weak to land destruction). You don't need to have 0 cards in hand at all. But then having any more than 1 card in hand means you do less damage per turn than just having a singleton copy of Form of the Dragon in play unless I'm misunderstanding something. Putting in more enchantments to buff Thassa is then veering dangerously into the territory of cute but really inefficient. You don't need to kill them quickly, you're a prison deck. And I'd rather lose to them having 3-4 PoEs for my 3-4 Thassas than losing the game to 2 lightning bolts or bolt/electrolyze or something similar. There's just way too much burn for Form of the Dragon to ever work. I'd throw in a Zombie infestation or something so I could dump my hand and kill them when I needed to, but otherwise keeping Meishin on 2-3 is usually good enough.
What stops you from running 1 leyline of sanctity main and 3 in the side?
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I'm trying to build Jund midrange in standard, and I'm wondering is duress can be a workable temporary sub for thoughtseize (due to budget constraints), or is the creature clause pretty relevant to the purpose of the card?
My guess is that against control decks (Esper, UW) its a pretty workable sub.
Against G/R monsters / devotion it probably gets value by hitting a planeswalker, and flops if not.
Mono Black it will hit removal, which is what I imagine you are aiming for (unless pack rat?)
Mono Blue it will flop hard since thassa is a creature, so best you can do is hit the few Jace / spells.
Orzhov Control you can hit their removals but not their threats.
So I'm guessing since jund midrange runs a good suite of removal, that thoughtseize is poised to take spells / planeswalkers (take their answers instead of taking their questions since you probably already hold answers), so duress should be able to hold its place decently? Am I on the right track or am I missing something critical?
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It makes your mid range match ups much worse. The problem isn't what it hits, the problem is how the things it doesn't hit affect your lines and taxes your removal. How your removal is taxed affects your deck construction relative to your meta.
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Are you saying that I should consider thoughtseize as a premium removal spell, and that I should play just enough removal to catch what slips by thoughtseize, and those freed up slots then instead go to more fatties / gas?
On a side note, I'm guessing why people tend to run 3 instead of 4 is that inevitably something will slip by?
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On January 29 2014 15:33 slOosh wrote:
Are you saying that I should consider thoughtseize as a premium removal spell, and that I should play just enough removal to catch what slips by thoughtseize, and those freed up slots then instead go to more fatties / gas?
On a side note, I'm guessing why people tend to run 3 instead of 4 is that inevitably something will slip by?
Thoughtseize isn't removal, it's a card that hinders your opponent's play curve. And like most discard, the later the game goes, the less useful it becomes. It's also more of a gamble, because you're hoping to hit a desired target, as opposed to actual removal that can be pointed right at the problem.
The problem with Duress is that it doesn't really hinder any curves, largely because the metagame has shifted to a point where creatures are relevant in almost all decks (as opposed to the days when Duress was first printed, where draw-go was dominant and low-creature decks were almost the norm).
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On January 29 2014 15:33 slOosh wrote:
Are you saying that I should consider thoughtseize as a premium removal spell, and that I should play just enough removal to catch what slips by thoughtseize, and those freed up slots then instead go to more fatties / gas?
On a side note, I'm guessing why people tend to run 3 instead of 4 is that inevitably something will slip by?
No what I am saying is that in the MonoBlack match up Thoughtseizing away a Pack Rat/Demon/Gary is value where as Duress would whiff and you'll be down a card.
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On January 29 2014 15:33 slOosh wrote:
Are you saying that I should consider thoughtseize as a premium removal spell, and that I should play just enough removal to catch what slips by thoughtseize, and those freed up slots then instead go to more fatties / gas?
On a side note, I'm guessing why people tend to run 3 instead of 4 is that inevitably something will slip by?
They are not similar cards. Duress doesn't lose you hit points while Thoughtseize does; this gives you a bigger buffer at the cost of utility. In the current meta game you have to make a choice between 4 main deck removal or 4 main deck duress. I you run 4 Thoughtseize then it simply gives you more readiness to adapt to a general field, but if you know the meta (say it's a store where you know what most players are likely to play) then you can run either 4 duress or 4 doom blade and it would be the same as running 4 Thoughtseize but doesn't lose you hitpointz. If you went to a PTQ or an SCG open where the field is broader and more random, then Thoughtseize is better.
Just because they are both 1 mana discard spells does not make them the same.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 29 2014 12:55 slOosh wrote:
I'm trying to build Jund midrange in standard, and I'm wondering is duress can be a workable temporary sub for thoughtseize (due to budget constraints), or is the creature clause pretty relevant to the purpose of the card?
My guess is that against control decks (Esper, UW) its a pretty workable sub.
Against G/R monsters / devotion it probably gets value by hitting a planeswalker, and flops if not.
Mono Black it will hit removal, which is what I imagine you are aiming for (unless pack rat?)
Mono Blue it will flop hard since thassa is a creature, so best you can do is hit the few Jace / spells.
Orzhov Control you can hit their removals but not their threats.
So I'm guessing since jund midrange runs a good suite of removal, that thoughtseize is poised to take spells / planeswalkers (take their answers instead of taking their questions since you probably already hold answers), so duress should be able to hold its place decently? Am I on the right track or am I missing something critical?
While I am mainly play Eternal formats, this advice applies just as much to Standard. Thoughtseize is a universally good card. You play it and rip the best card you can out of your opponent's hand. Card like Duress are far more limited - they only hit certain things. Thoughtseize cares not for these limitations. Your opponent is going to be playing non-land cards and that's a fact. You can rip those non-land cards out of his hand. (The exception are things like odd Legacy decks, but you're not playing Legacy so who cares?)
Maybe he wants to try sideboard in a Planeswalker to even the matchup. Haha that's cute, Thoughtseize. Board Wipe about to land on Turn 4? Haha nice one, Thoughtseize. Sideboarding in special creatures to help out? Haha Thoughtseize.
Other cards like Duress or Doom Blade only help against specific angles of attack your opponent can use, and with Doom Blade it still lets your opponent get any ETB triggers. So that means sometimes they're dead cards. Thoughtseize hits everything. That "everything" factor is why it's so good. The 2 life hit is worth it to pay, the same way you pay 2 life for Shocklands. The universal effect is powerful and not to be underestimated. It's super slot efficient and relevant in nearly every match up. It sets up all of your lines of play no matter what your opponent has. That's pretty damn good for a 1 mana card.
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I'm going to a sealed deck tournament for the pre-release of Born of the Gods but I probably won't have the time to take an in depth look at the cards before (if any at all). Any advise on what is going to be "safe" to play? General strategies / colors I should look for?
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Can anyone give me estimations how the costs are compared to normal MTG? From all what I saw it's a big money grab but I would like to play it. : /
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If you are referring to MTGO, almost every card is cheaper than IRL and there are always drafts and other events running that good players can "Go infinite" off of (aka break even so play for free) but the downside is you have to re-build your collection and the interface can be obnoxious. Plus you can run into some really good players online 
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On January 31 2014 01:29 Miragee wrote:
Can anyone give me estimations how the costs are compared to normal MTG? From all what I saw it's a big money grab but I would like to play it. : /
Its cheap to test since you don't pay to play, you pay to get cards and getting random commons in the 300+ at a time range is easy to do without the mess of keeping 3-5 shoe boxes in your room.
Test the interface, its what I can't stand right now.
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hmm? what do you dislike about the interface? I find it very easy to use. The only thing I'd like is an easier way to manipulate priority stops mid-game.
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On January 30 2014 21:36 Merany wrote:
I'm going to a sealed deck tournament for the pre-release of Born of the Gods but I probably won't have the time to take an in depth look at the cards before (if any at all). Any advise on what is going to be "safe" to play? General strategies / colors I should look for?
Bestow is really good. The colors in Theros (and BotG) are reasonably balanced, so don't be biased towards a color.
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Finally got through the BotG spoilers. I really like the flavor and themes they have going. From a purely casual perspective I'm pleased 
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EPT
