On September 08 2011 01:00 Orpheos wrote: they really needed to find a better way to balance the grinding aspect and skill aspect because right now you essentially HAVE to play every week to even have a shot at getting Qed
Or you could, ya know, go to a ptq.
meh true story. w/e Im not terribly pissed since I dont really care either way. it just seems so stupid to award countless grinding. but then again I guess its a good marketing decision because it gets people out there playing.
I think this is the crux of it. From Wizards' point of view, it's just a maneuver to make money and appeal to the casual player who gets discouraged looking at a low rating. Meanwhile, the amount of people who actually hate this idea are fewer and probably will continue to play anyway. Although I have to say, if this "rating" system were in place when I started competitive Magic long ago, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it. Elo motivates me to get better and this does not.
On September 08 2011 01:00 Orpheos wrote: they really needed to find a better way to balance the grinding aspect and skill aspect because right now you essentially HAVE to play every week to even have a shot at getting Qed
Or you could, ya know, go to a ptq.
meh true story. w/e Im not terribly pissed since I dont really care either way. it just seems so stupid to award countless grinding. but then again I guess its a good marketing decision because it gets people out there playing.
I think this is the crux of it. From Wizards' point of view, it's just a maneuver to make money and appeal to the casual player who gets discouraged looking at a low rating. Meanwhile, the amount of people who actually hate this idea are fewer and probably will continue to play anyway. Although I have to say, if this "rating" system were in place when I started competitive Magic long ago, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it. Elo motivates me to get better and this does not.
Granted, people could just grind out tournaments to get their rating up. But wouldn't you agree that tournament prizes are also good motivation to get better?
Fucking modo fuck this shit fuckin fuckin 20 land deck drawing 7 land in a row vs some stupid bullshit 2/2 haste goblin for 1 mana. Great balancing fuckin twat ass developers.
Why shouldn't grinding be rewarded? Those are the people putting the time and effort in to qualify. I don't think people who just sit on a high rating "deserve" to show up to a PT whenever they feel like it. I grant that it's unfair to people who have a full-time job, families, etc., but if they're just that good they can win a PTQ like anyone else. I think the concern over people qualifying through FNMs is wildly overblown, although I do think a 2x multiplier is more appropriate than 3x.
On September 08 2011 09:48 Jaksiel wrote: Why shouldn't grinding be rewarded? Those are the people putting the time and effort in to qualify. I don't think people who just sit on a high rating "deserve" to show up to a PT whenever they feel like it. I grant that it's unfair to people who have a full-time job, families, etc., but if they're just that good they can win a PTQ like anyone else. I think the concern over people qualifying through FNMs is wildly overblown, although I do think a 2x multiplier is more appropriate than 3x.
It's probably just that those who can afford to go to every FNM now have an advantage over those who can't type thing. It rewards time/money instead of skill (and to a lesser extent money you spend on a comp deck)
On September 08 2011 09:06 Risen wrote: Fucking modo fuck this shit fuckin fuckin 20 land deck drawing 7 land in a row vs some stupid bullshit 2/2 haste goblin for 1 mana. Great balancing fuckin twat ass developers.
/rage off.
Anyways, anyone down for some drafting tonight?
At least... they didn't put a protean hulk on the first turn...
On September 08 2011 09:06 Risen wrote: Fucking modo fuck this shit fuckin fuckin 20 land deck drawing 7 land in a row vs some stupid bullshit 2/2 haste goblin for 1 mana. Great balancing fuckin twat ass developers.
/rage off.
Anyways, anyone down for some drafting tonight?
At least... they didn't put a protean hulk on the first turn...
I play standard so I hope they wouldn't. Anyways, I play a total of 20 lands and in the same tournament two different matches I get fucked. In my second match third game which I ranted about above and my 4th and final match when I draw 13 lands and only 11 spells in the third game. How in the unholy fuck? This shit doesn't happen in live magic. Done with modo except for drafts with friends. I don't mind losing to better decks, but when I lose to shit like this? Why even play.
On September 08 2011 01:00 Orpheos wrote: they really needed to find a better way to balance the grinding aspect and skill aspect because right now you essentially HAVE to play every week to even have a shot at getting Qed
Or you could, ya know, go to a ptq.
meh true story. w/e Im not terribly pissed since I dont really care either way. it just seems so stupid to award countless grinding. but then again I guess its a good marketing decision because it gets people out there playing.
I think this is the crux of it. From Wizards' point of view, it's just a maneuver to make money and appeal to the casual player who gets discouraged looking at a low rating. Meanwhile, the amount of people who actually hate this idea are fewer and probably will continue to play anyway. Although I have to say, if this "rating" system were in place when I started competitive Magic long ago, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it. Elo motivates me to get better and this does not.
Granted, people could just grind out tournaments to get their rating up. But wouldn't you agree that tournament prizes are also good motivation to get better?
Well, for me personally, the motivation was always just being known and being on tour, and playing with the best players. Prizes aren't really a good reason to get into Magic, since they're pretty small overall.
Re: Jaksiel It's true that people shouldn't be able to sit on their ratings, but this isn't the best solution. Add point degeneration or, if anything, reset the ratings every year. This system gives advantages not only to people who play a lot, but to people who live in areas that allow them to play a lot. Consider the following two players:
Bob lives in a small town, but plays a lot online, and is ~1950 DCI. He travels to a couple of PTQs and does very well in both, losing in the T4 each time. His rating under the old system is now about 2100.
Bill lives in Boston, travels to a different PTQ every week, as well as the two GPs that were hosted near him. Bill isn't very good, but his PTQs have more rounds than Bob's, and between his 6-3 showings in the PTQs plus making day 2 of one of the GPs, and playing in massive FNMs every week, he manages to be one of the top rated players in the country. His rating under the old system would be about 1850.
Now, are you seriously going to tell me Bill deserves an invite over Bob? Because this is exactly what's going to happen. Players in isolated areas now have no chance of qualifying aside from winning a PTQ (which already existed as an option).
On September 08 2011 01:00 Orpheos wrote: they really needed to find a better way to balance the grinding aspect and skill aspect because right now you essentially HAVE to play every week to even have a shot at getting Qed
Or you could, ya know, go to a ptq.
meh true story. w/e Im not terribly pissed since I dont really care either way. it just seems so stupid to award countless grinding. but then again I guess its a good marketing decision because it gets people out there playing.
I think this is the crux of it. From Wizards' point of view, it's just a maneuver to make money and appeal to the casual player who gets discouraged looking at a low rating. Meanwhile, the amount of people who actually hate this idea are fewer and probably will continue to play anyway. Although I have to say, if this "rating" system were in place when I started competitive Magic long ago, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it. Elo motivates me to get better and this does not.
Granted, people could just grind out tournaments to get their rating up. But wouldn't you agree that tournament prizes are also good motivation to get better?
Well, for me personally, the motivation was always just being known and being on tour, and playing with the best players. Prizes aren't really a good reason to get into Magic, since they're pretty small overall.
Re: Jaksiel It's true that people shouldn't be able to sit on their ratings, but this isn't the best solution. Add point degeneration or, if anything, reset the ratings every year. This system gives advantages not only to people who play a lot, but to people who live in areas that allow them to play a lot. Consider the following two players:
Bob lives in a small town, but plays a lot online, and is ~1950 DCI. He travels to a couple of PTQs and does very well in both, losing in the T4 each time. His rating under the old system is now about 2100.
Bill lives in Boston, travels to a different PTQ every week, as well as the two GPs that were hosted near him. Bill isn't very good, but his PTQs have more rounds than Bob's, and between his 6-3 showings in the PTQs plus making day 2 of one of the GPs, and playing in massive FNMs every week, he manages to be one of the top rated players in the country. His rating under the old system would be about 1850.
Now, are you seriously going to tell me Bill deserves an invite over Bob? Because this is exactly what's going to happen. Players in isolated areas now have no chance of qualifying aside from winning a PTQ (which already existed as an option).
I will admit, I didn't really see anything about online tourneys in the Planeswalker points stuff. If you don't get any for stuff like the MOCS that'd be just wrong. I have a feeling it's not quite complete and we'll see more stuff for people online that would balance it out. Also, T4 in PTQs will give you a ton of points.
On September 08 2011 01:00 Orpheos wrote: they really needed to find a better way to balance the grinding aspect and skill aspect because right now you essentially HAVE to play every week to even have a shot at getting Qed
Or you could, ya know, go to a ptq.
meh true story. w/e Im not terribly pissed since I dont really care either way. it just seems so stupid to award countless grinding. but then again I guess its a good marketing decision because it gets people out there playing.
I think this is the crux of it. From Wizards' point of view, it's just a maneuver to make money and appeal to the casual player who gets discouraged looking at a low rating. Meanwhile, the amount of people who actually hate this idea are fewer and probably will continue to play anyway. Although I have to say, if this "rating" system were in place when I started competitive Magic long ago, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it. Elo motivates me to get better and this does not.
Granted, people could just grind out tournaments to get their rating up. But wouldn't you agree that tournament prizes are also good motivation to get better?
Well, for me personally, the motivation was always just being known and being on tour, and playing with the best players. Prizes aren't really a good reason to get into Magic, since they're pretty small overall.
Re: Jaksiel It's true that people shouldn't be able to sit on their ratings, but this isn't the best solution. Add point degeneration or, if anything, reset the ratings every year. This system gives advantages not only to people who play a lot, but to people who live in areas that allow them to play a lot. Consider the following two players:
Bob lives in a small town, but plays a lot online, and is ~1950 DCI. He travels to a couple of PTQs and does very well in both, losing in the T4 each time. His rating under the old system is now about 2100.
Bill lives in Boston, travels to a different PTQ every week, as well as the two GPs that were hosted near him. Bill isn't very good, but his PTQs have more rounds than Bob's, and between his 6-3 showings in the PTQs plus making day 2 of one of the GPs, and playing in massive FNMs every week, he manages to be one of the top rated players in the country. His rating under the old system would be about 1850.
Now, are you seriously going to tell me Bill deserves an invite over Bob? Because this is exactly what's going to happen. Players in isolated areas now have no chance of qualifying aside from winning a PTQ (which already existed as an option).
I will admit, I didn't really see anything about online tourneys in the Planeswalker points stuff. If you don't get any for stuff like the MOCS that'd be just wrong. I have a feeling it's not quite complete and we'll see more stuff for people online that would balance it out. Also, T4 in PTQs will give you a ton of points.
Your points are only based on the number of wins and losses, so if Bob T4's 2 PTQs going 6-1-1 in each, that's 38 points (x5 I guess). If Bill plays in 6 PTQs and goes 3-6 in each, that's 54 points (x5). Way more points for a 33% winrate, during the same amount of time, only because Bill lives in an area that allows him to easily travel to a different PTQ every week. It's a ridiculously terrible system for giving deserving players PT spots.
On September 08 2011 01:00 Orpheos wrote: they really needed to find a better way to balance the grinding aspect and skill aspect because right now you essentially HAVE to play every week to even have a shot at getting Qed
Or you could, ya know, go to a ptq.
meh true story. w/e Im not terribly pissed since I dont really care either way. it just seems so stupid to award countless grinding. but then again I guess its a good marketing decision because it gets people out there playing.
I think this is the crux of it. From Wizards' point of view, it's just a maneuver to make money and appeal to the casual player who gets discouraged looking at a low rating. Meanwhile, the amount of people who actually hate this idea are fewer and probably will continue to play anyway. Although I have to say, if this "rating" system were in place when I started competitive Magic long ago, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it. Elo motivates me to get better and this does not.
Granted, people could just grind out tournaments to get their rating up. But wouldn't you agree that tournament prizes are also good motivation to get better?
Well, for me personally, the motivation was always just being known and being on tour, and playing with the best players. Prizes aren't really a good reason to get into Magic, since they're pretty small overall.
Re: Jaksiel It's true that people shouldn't be able to sit on their ratings, but this isn't the best solution. Add point degeneration or, if anything, reset the ratings every year. This system gives advantages not only to people who play a lot, but to people who live in areas that allow them to play a lot. Consider the following two players:
Bob lives in a small town, but plays a lot online, and is ~1950 DCI. He travels to a couple of PTQs and does very well in both, losing in the T4 each time. His rating under the old system is now about 2100.
Bill lives in Boston, travels to a different PTQ every week, as well as the two GPs that were hosted near him. Bill isn't very good, but his PTQs have more rounds than Bob's, and between his 6-3 showings in the PTQs plus making day 2 of one of the GPs, and playing in massive FNMs every week, he manages to be one of the top rated players in the country. His rating under the old system would be about 1850.
Now, are you seriously going to tell me Bill deserves an invite over Bob? Because this is exactly what's going to happen. Players in isolated areas now have no chance of qualifying aside from winning a PTQ (which already existed as an option).
I will admit, I didn't really see anything about online tourneys in the Planeswalker points stuff. If you don't get any for stuff like the MOCS that'd be just wrong. I have a feeling it's not quite complete and we'll see more stuff for people online that would balance it out. Also, T4 in PTQs will give you a ton of points.
Your points are only based on the number of wins and losses, so if Bob T4's 2 PTQs going 6-1-1 in each, that's 38 points (x5 I guess). If Bill plays in 6 PTQs and goes 3-6 in each, that's 54 points (x5). Way more points for a 33% winrate, during the same amount of time, only because Bill lives in an area that allows him to easily travel to a different PTQ every week. It's a ridiculously terrible system for giving deserving players PT spots.
How is a system where a player doesn't play for months and get an invite a good system for giving deserving players spots? Sure, it sucks if you live in the middle of nowhere and can't play a lot, but that sucked for you before the change too. I think giving invites for rating/points at all is ridiculous. Just have more PTQs.
Honestly, No one DESERVES PT spots. Earn them. Sure you worked for it, but this is a Mental Sport. You need to play alot in order to keep at a highlevel (unless were talking about loltimespiral, I COUNT TO 9 XD)
If that means you play alot of magic and you made it cool. If that means you x-0'd a PTQ with some super secret tech even better, but all in all it boils down to this.
I no longer have to do calc level math to figure out if I have to start grinding in for a pt at the end of the year. The less math I have to do, the better.
Edit: Finally checked my Points. level 39 >.> 120 from level 40 :|. This is gunna bug me.
Going to a thursday night draft in an hour. Anyone have advice on picks? It's an m12 draft, first live draft I've gone to since I normally only live play with friends. Just moved to AZ thought so I'm bored out of my mind figured I'd give it a shot.
On September 09 2011 07:56 Risen wrote: Going to a thursday night draft in an hour. Anyone have advice on picks? It's an m12 draft, first live draft I've gone to since I normally only live play with friends. Just moved to AZ thought so I'm bored out of my mind figured I'd give it a shot.
Pick removal highly like always, Doom Blade/Outrage/Wring Flesh/Incinerate/Pacifism. Open Jace and you automatically win.
All the colors are viable as long as they're open, Red and Black tend to be overdrafted among people that know what they're doing, if there are just a bunch of randoms, try to force R/B Bloodthirst. If you can curve out you usually win. Other winning archetypes are G/W enchantments (Sacred Wolf + any of the numerous Auras is a win condition), U/W Fliers, U/B control (lots of counters/removal plus average creatures). Any of the other combinations are possible but not amazing.
The only Mythic I'd even consider passing is Angelic Destiny, so first picks are usually pretty easy if you open a good Rare/Mythic. If not there's usually a removal spell.
Underrated cards you should pick if they're in your colors:
Onyx Mage Jade Mage Arachnus Web Ice Cage Call to the Grave (especially with Vengeful Pharaoh or a couple of Gravedigger/Warpath Ghouls) Child of Night (I would pick him over any other vanilla creatures and over most other 2 drops) Wring Flesh Distress
On September 09 2011 08:25 Risen wrote: Thanks for the tips. Sounds just like modo, will just have to see if these guys are bad (8th pick mind control make it happen)
I got a 5th pick foil Mind Control a couple weeks ago. I won that draft <_<
Although I only used it 3 times, once on a Sengir, once on an Arsonist, and once on a Stormblood Berzerker
I love talking draft philosophies. I would have a super hard time passing up an Angelic Destiny for any uncommon: obviously Fireball and Mind Control are in the conversation but even then, it'd be like 60/40. It gives away that potential card advantage but it makes things like Spirit Wolf, Griffin Sentinel, Aven Fleetwing completely fearsome.
I don't think I would ever not pick a mythic in this set, except for Time Reversal and that Bloodthirst mega-Dragon, me thinks. Also, I would take Fireball/Mind Control over almost all the rares except for a few: Pentavus and Flameblast Dragon, definitely, and Lavamancer, Royal Assassin and Archon of Justice are maybes.
On September 09 2011 08:54 slyboogie wrote: I love talking draft philosophies. I would have a super hard time passing up an Angelic Destiny for any uncommon: obviously Fireball and Mind Control are in the conversation but even then, it'd be like 60/40. It gives away that potential card advantage but it makes things like Spirit Wolf, Griffin Sentinel, Aven Fleetwing completely fearsome.
I don't think I would ever not pick a mythic in this set, except for Time Reversal and that Bloodthirst mega-Dragon, me thinks. Also, I would take Fireball/Mind Control over almost all the rares except for a few: Pentavus and Flameblast Dragon, definitely, and Lavamancer, Royal Assassin and Archon of Justice are maybes.
On September 09 2011 08:54 slyboogie wrote: I love talking draft philosophies. I would have a super hard time passing up an Angelic Destiny for any uncommon: obviously Fireball and Mind Control are in the conversation but even then, it'd be like 60/40. It gives away that potential card advantage but it makes things like Spirit Wolf, Griffin Sentinel, Aven Fleetwing completely fearsome.
I don't think I would ever not pick a mythic in this set, except for Time Reversal and that Bloodthirst mega-Dragon, me thinks. Also, I would take Fireball/Mind Control over almost all the rares except for a few: Pentavus and Flameblast Dragon, definitely, and Lavamancer, Royal Assassin and Archon of Justice are maybes.
What about overrun :O
Yeah, Overrun is definitely up there but I'd include more rares that I'd take over it. I guess that I consider Fireball and Mind Control Tier 1 type cards and Overrun is like 1.5. I would definitely take the above 5 rares and I'd probably take Sorin's Vengeance, Skinshifter(mayyyyyybe?) the Djinn? I dunno, I don't love Overrun all that much.
EPT
