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Yep. Just a quick primer on targeting versus non-targeting, if it doesn't say target explicitly, then it doesn't target. Shroud/Hexproof does not protect creatures from non-targeting effects such as wraths.
Edit:
Jingle, the thing that new players like you (myself included) is that they think of neat interactions that are broken up too easily when they first start brewing. Synergy is only good if you can "win" the game or obtain some large advantage.
For example, the Esper list I am playing tries to carve out a game state where I can utilize my win conditions, very few of the cards directly interact with each other but all serve that very purpose of creating that game state where I can mill them out with Drownyard or Jace. So I am trying grind out a win by slowly creating that game state.
Take Travis Woo's decks where he tries to build around big powerful effects that usually wins on the spot or close to it.
Now your idea is good, but in constructed play, you have to worry about a lot more cards that can ruin you, keep in mind that while you have access to every single card (theoretically), your opponents do as well. Therefore, you must must must account for that or you'll find yourself more frustrated as you get better.
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On January 28 2013 12:21 Judicator wrote:
Yep. Just a quick primer on targeting versus non-targeting, if it doesn't say target explicitly, then it doesn't target. Shroud/Hexproof does not protect creatures from non-targeting effects such as wraths.
Edit:
Jingle, the thing that new players like you (myself included) is that they think of neat interactions that are broken up too easily when they first start brewing. Synergy is only good if you can "win" the game or obtain some large advantage.
For example, the Esper list I am playing tries to carve out a game state where I can utilize my win conditions, very few of the cards directly interact with each other but all serve that very purpose of creating that game state where I can mill them out with Drownyard or Jace. So I am trying grind out a win by slowly creating that game state.
Take Travis Woo's decks where he tries to build around big powerful effects that usually wins on the spot or close to it.
Now your idea is good, but in constructed play, you have to worry about a lot more cards that can ruin you, keep in mind that while you have access to every single card (theoretically), your opponents do as well. Therefore, you must must must account for that or you'll find yourself more frustrated as you get better.
Yeah, no, that's entirely why I bounce ideas off the nearest victim more experienced player when I have them.
I'm curious, though. What keeps stuff like Supreme Verdict from being OP? Planeswalkers?
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On January 28 2013 12:54 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 12:21 Judicator wrote:
Yep. Just a quick primer on targeting versus non-targeting, if it doesn't say target explicitly, then it doesn't target. Shroud/Hexproof does not protect creatures from non-targeting effects such as wraths.
Edit:
Jingle, the thing that new players like you (myself included) is that they think of neat interactions that are broken up too easily when they first start brewing. Synergy is only good if you can "win" the game or obtain some large advantage.
For example, the Esper list I am playing tries to carve out a game state where I can utilize my win conditions, very few of the cards directly interact with each other but all serve that very purpose of creating that game state where I can mill them out with Drownyard or Jace. So I am trying grind out a win by slowly creating that game state.
Take Travis Woo's decks where he tries to build around big powerful effects that usually wins on the spot or close to it.
Now your idea is good, but in constructed play, you have to worry about a lot more cards that can ruin you, keep in mind that while you have access to every single card (theoretically), your opponents do as well. Therefore, you must must must account for that or you'll find yourself more frustrated as you get better. Yeah, no, that's entirely why I bounce ideas off the nearest victim more experienced player when I have them. I'm curious, though. What keeps stuff like Supreme Verdict from being OP? Planeswalkers?
Planeswalkers, Regeneration, Indestructible, Graveyard recursion, Flash creatures, and Undying.
For starters.
Also @Judicator, but O-ring is a maindeck answer to a spot you may not get out of. It may not always be the best at all possible times, but it gives you an out where you currently have none and isn't dead against creature decks either, getting rid of a problem equipment/creature is always good to have. I'd never NOT play at least 1 in any control deck running White.
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Oh, also, when it says "all creatures" on supreme verdict... that includes the controller?
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Yes it kills all monsters on both sides of the field
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On January 28 2013 12:57 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 12:54 JingleHell wrote:On January 28 2013 12:21 Judicator wrote:
Yep. Just a quick primer on targeting versus non-targeting, if it doesn't say target explicitly, then it doesn't target. Shroud/Hexproof does not protect creatures from non-targeting effects such as wraths.
Edit:
Jingle, the thing that new players like you (myself included) is that they think of neat interactions that are broken up too easily when they first start brewing. Synergy is only good if you can "win" the game or obtain some large advantage.
For example, the Esper list I am playing tries to carve out a game state where I can utilize my win conditions, very few of the cards directly interact with each other but all serve that very purpose of creating that game state where I can mill them out with Drownyard or Jace. So I am trying grind out a win by slowly creating that game state.
Take Travis Woo's decks where he tries to build around big powerful effects that usually wins on the spot or close to it.
Now your idea is good, but in constructed play, you have to worry about a lot more cards that can ruin you, keep in mind that while you have access to every single card (theoretically), your opponents do as well. Therefore, you must must must account for that or you'll find yourself more frustrated as you get better. Yeah, no, that's entirely why I bounce ideas off the nearest victim more experienced player when I have them. I'm curious, though. What keeps stuff like Supreme Verdict from being OP? Planeswalkers? Planeswalkers, Regeneration, Indestructible, Graveyard recursion, Flash creatures, and Undying. For starters. Also @Judicator, but O-ring is a maindeck answer to a spot you may not get out of. It may not always be the best at all possible times, but it gives you an out where you currently have none and isn't dead against creature decks either, getting rid of a problem equipment/creature is always good to have. I'd never NOT play at least 1 in any control deck running White.
The line is terrible as I stated, its not the answer, its the dont get yourself in that situation in the first place. You lose a win-con to a counterspell or another instant in the first place, that's terrible play for a control player. Then you have to tap out 3 mana to remove something that already got 1 activation. That line trades card quality AND card economy, wrecking you effectively in a grindy control match up.
If you want to argue for artifacts and other stuff, there really isn't much. It's a terrible line. As for creature decks, I board out my Sphere 99% of the time trading 1 for 1 against creature decks is a very good way to lose for control.
Edit:
Testing on MWS, join a "no quiter" game, he wins the roll with a 20, mulls twice, pauses, quits. Hilarious, the MWS equivalent of watching a car crash in slow motion.
Edit 2:
Christ, the I netdeck control decks players are out in force, I just turn 5 flashed in a Snapcaster eot on an empty board in a control mirror with no spells to flashback simply because I put the guy on inexperienced/dumb/whatever you want to call it. His response to me attacking on turn 6 with a Snapcaster was to flash in his own Snapcaster with an Azorius Charm in the GY, bounce my Snapcaster after I slip his Snapcaster. Play land, tap out for Tamiyo like thanks dude.
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So new bannings/unbannings list came out.
Effective Date: February 1, 2013
Magic Online Effective Date: February 6, 2013
Modern
Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song are banned.
Magic Online Pauper
Empty the Warrens, Grapeshot, and Invigorate are banned.
Standard, Extended, Legacy, Vintage
No changes
They go into more detail explaining why the two main cards in modern got banned. So you're telling me that a 4 CMC creature that has 3/2 haste is detrimental to the format? I think most people agree that BBE is the most powerful card in a Jund deck, but it's a deck that is built upon the premise of 2-for-1s. Yes, I know the elf casts a free spell, but variance decides what that spell is, not her. You can stack the odds in your favor with fetchlands thinning your deck into hitting a spell that is Cascadable into, but it's still random. It's not Jund's fault for playing the most powerful cards in their colors. In fact, isn't that the whole point of Modern? To play these powerful - but FAIR - spells in an eternal format that is meant to encourage creativity and exciting games, and not just who can resolve their game-breaking spell first (like it is in Legacy)?
As for the Seething Song ban, that's almost exclusively for Storm decks, and IMO makes it be a much harder combo to pull off now, to the point of probably not being worth it.
I have no comments about the Pauper bannings, but I'd imagine they just cut the balls off the Storm deck for that.
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BBElf doesn't encourage creativity, you want to play midrange? Play Jund. As for randomness, that's arguable, none of Jund's cards are bad, or to phrase it another way, when are you unhappy that you cast a 4 mana 3/2 haster WITH an additional effect. You could make the argument that the effect is random, but would you be dissatisfied if you cascaded into any of the cards in Jund off of a BBElf? Randomness isn't as relevant as you think since Jund's card quality from 0 to 60 are all exceptional cards.
Modern has reached the point where Jund is the clear deck to beat (since Jace isn't in the format) and all your card choices when you brew has to revolve around that idea. That's not a healthy creative starting point.
As for the Modern format as a whole, Wizards has already established very clearly on avoiding oppressive decks. You can say that they might be a little heavy handed in stomping on decks in a relatively new format (with the preemptive banlist and all), but it's pretty clear that every other deck has to be able to do well against Jund right now.
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Scrubs gonna scrub.
Anyways, came in first at my LGS for the solo weekend record. Finished 11-2-1 (one intentional draw in the finals of one of the events)
1st event Boros
4-1 top 4 lost a mirror in round 4 to the eventual winner
4 packs
2nd event Boros
4-0-1 split finals vs my friend who is also running boros
15 packs
3rd event Boros
3-1 top 4 got beat in round 3 by the nuts draws of a simic player 3 games in a row
4 packs
Top record holder for the weekend got a box. Boros is so fucking good in sealed when you have a guild pack for consistency.
Played in a 2HG event too, but went 3-1 b/c orzhov orzhov with ghost dad and merciless eviction is broken T_T. Dealt 52 damage to them in the finals but extort is retarded in 2HG.
Two moments stand out as awesome to me for different reasons.
1) Keep two plains no mountains vs some asshole at my LGS everyone hates because I'm on the draw and my deck is literally the best deck I've ever seen. He's dimir. Mills to lands. T2 wojek, T3 wojek, still on 2 lands. T4 have to discard. T5 have to discard. T6 mountain skynight swing out for 8. T7 swing for 8 boros charm. Opponent got me to 2 life. :O
2) Horrible boros deck that I played in the last event (was big boros with aurelia, played 18 land had 1 1-drop, 2 2-drops, 2 3-drops). Facing a RUG deck. Opponent hands of bindings my aurelia and cipher taps my fortress ogre when he swings me down to 1 life. He has 17 life. He plays rubblebelt raiders. I have syndic of tithes, hellraiser goblin on the field. 6 land on the field and none in hand. Topdeck mountain. Play spark trooper. Act of treason rubblebelt raiders. Swing for 17. Must. Be. Nice.
Edit: Of course I just completed my storm deck. Punished.
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On January 28 2013 11:51 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 11:49 Judicator wrote:
Too cute when you are in format of Supreme Verdicts. Does that cut through, say, an Evos Isle?
The way I remembered protection when I was still getting confused by it was to remember this. "A creature with protection from X is in your DEBT." It can't be Damaged, Enchanted, Blocked, or Targeted by X. So removal that neither deals damage nor targets the creature, such as Devour Flesh or Supreme Verdict can kill a creature with protection, no matter what.
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On January 28 2013 14:28 Kinie wrote:
So new bannings/unbannings list came out.
Effective Date: February 1, 2013
Magic Online Effective Date: February 6, 2013
Modern
Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song are banned.
Magic Online Pauper
Empty the Warrens, Grapeshot, and Invigorate are banned.
Standard, Extended, Legacy, Vintage
No changes
They go into more detail explaining why the two main cards in modern got banned. So you're telling me that a 4 CMC creature that has 3/2 haste is detrimental to the format? I think most people agree that BBE is the most powerful card in a Jund deck, but it's a deck that is built upon the premise of 2-for-1s. Yes, I know the elf casts a free spell, but variance decides what that spell is, not her. You can stack the odds in your favor with fetchlands thinning your deck into hitting a spell that is Cascadable into, but it's still random. It's not Jund's fault for playing the most powerful cards in their colors. In fact, isn't that the whole point of Modern? To play these powerful - but FAIR - spells in an eternal format that is meant to encourage creativity and exciting games, and not just who can resolve their game-breaking spell first (like it is in Legacy)?
As for the Seething Song ban, that's almost exclusively for Storm decks, and IMO makes it be a much harder combo to pull off now, to the point of probably not being worth it.
I have no comments about the Pauper bannings, but I'd imagine they just cut the balls off the Storm deck for that.
They posted the reasoning for the BBE banning; they want a diverse format, and jund has been doing really well for the last year or so. imo jund is still fine without it.
As for the seething song ban i dont like it even with the reasoning they posted; it has a high win rate but not a lot of people play it. Doesn't that mean we'll continue to have a diverse format? i doubt storm would have become oppressive like jund did.
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On the one hand, I don't know if the Pauper bans were necessary.
On the other hand, from a completely self-centered point of view, WOO!. I have a Mono-Green Stompy deck in Pauper, and hate hate HATE the combo matchup, since it's basically a game of solitaire. It's like I'm giving total control of the game up to luck, and my opponent's skill at comboing off.
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The thing that confuses me is they banned BBE but left second sunrise intact after so much complaining and debate from judges about the length of rounds. I mean it's kind of retarded to go a whole 50 minutes and still be on turn 4 of game 1.
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On January 28 2013 23:00 Shotcoder wrote:
The thing that confuses me is they banned BBE but left second sunrise intact after so much complaining and debate from judges about the length of rounds. I mean it's kind of retarded to go a whole 50 minutes and still be on turn 4 of game 1.
50 minutes still isn't time. There aren't that many people willing to pilot that deck. I looked at it when it was featured when Modern first came out and it's definitely one of those if you're into this kind of a deck. Definitely a different flavor of combo.
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Here's a weird one: Cipher, since you cast a "copy" of the spell, does the "copy" include the ability to cipher again?
The gatecrash FAQ doesn't seem to answer it.
+ Show Spoiler [Relevant FAQ Stuff] +The official rules for cipher are as follows:
702.97. Cipher
702.97a Cipher appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities, one that functions while the spell is on the stack and one that functions while the card with cipher is in the exile zone. "Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control" and "As long as this card is encoded on that creature, that creature has 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy this card and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.'"
702.97b The term "encoded" describes the relationship between the card with cipher while in the exile zone and the creature chosen when the spell represented by that card resolves.
702.97c The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield. The card remains encoded on that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.
The spell with cipher is encoded on the creature as part of that spell's resolution, just after the spell's other effects. That card goes directly from the stack to exile. It never goes to the graveyard.
You choose the creature as the spell resolves. The cipher ability doesn't target that creature, although the spell with cipher may target that creature (or a different creature) because of its other abilities.
If the spell with cipher is countered, none of its effects will happen, including cipher. The card will go to its owner's graveyard and won't be encoded on a creature.
If the creature leaves the battlefield, the exiled card will no longer be encoded on any creature. It will stay exiled.
If you want to encode the card with cipher onto a noncreature permanent such as a Keyrune that can turn into a creature, that permanent has to be a creature before the spell with cipher starts resolving. You can choose only a creature to encode the card onto.
The copy of the card with cipher is created in and cast from exile.
You cast the copy of the card with cipher during the resolution of the triggered ability. Ignore timing restrictions based on the card's type.
If you choose not to cast the copy, or you can't cast it (perhaps because there are no legal targets available), the copy will cease to exist the next time state-based actions are performed. You won't get a chance to cast the copy at a later time.
The exiled card with cipher grants a triggered ability to the creature it's encoded on. If that creature loses that ability and subsequently deals combat damage to a player, the triggered ability won't trigger. However, the exiled card will continue to be encoded on that creature.
If another player gains control of the creature, that player will control the triggered ability. That player will create a copy of the encoded card and may cast it.
If a creature with an encoded card deals combat damage to more than one player simultaneously (perhaps because some of the combat damage was redirected), the triggered ability will trigger once for each player it deals combat damage to. Each ability will create a copy of the exiled card and allow you to cast it.
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No, because of this part:
"Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control"
Since the copy doesn't get its own card, you can't cipher the copy on to anything
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On January 29 2013 01:47 huameng wrote:
No, because of this part:
"Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control"
Since the copy doesn't get its own card, you can't cipher the copy on to anything
Ah, oops. I managed to miss the relevant part. Thanks.
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As far as I know, the copy is a token, and you have to exile "this card" to encode it. But a token is not a card.
Similarly, to encode the spell, it goes to exile. But tokens cease to exist when they are exiled (and someone gets priority blah blah). Therefore the copy will be gone and never trigger any cipher effects.
Extending on that, I presume that you also can't encode a spell that you copied by another effect such as Reverberate (at least not successfully).
Technically the encode part of the spell should still trigger though?
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Thank goodness: there was another tourney today. Did manage to go Boros after all; was very popular, only had a couple boxes left after I reserved mine. My deck went through lots of changes over the course of the day, but this is what I ended up with:
+ Show Spoiler +7 Plains 6 Mountain 2 Forest (splashed green, will explain) 1 Boros Guildgate 1 Gruul Guildgate 2 Boros Elite 1 Wasteland Viper 2 Daring Skyjek 1 Sunhome Guildmage 1 Bomber Corps 1 Truefire Paladin 1 Warmind Infantry 2 Skyknight Legionnaire 3 Assault Griffin 1 Nav Squad Commandos 1 Towering Thunderfist 1 Foundry Champion 1 Molten Primordial 1 Domri Rade (THAT'S why  ) 1 Massive Raid 1 Madcap Skills 1 Beckon Apparition 1 Prophetic Prism
Thoughts behind my deck's construction:
+ Show Spoiler +I was going to stick to pure RW aggro, but when I pulled Domri, I was like,"...Welp. Guess I'm splashin' green for Naya." Eventually pulled most of the green to accommodate more Plains, Mountains, and red/white creatures.
Massive Raid was literally my only removal spell. (I wouldn't count Bomber Corps; too dependent on other factors)
Had 2 Beckon Apparitions, but I added only one because my friends weren't recommending it. I figured most of my other creatures had the "quality" under control, with Battalion heavily accounted for, so at that point I just wanted a higher "quantity" of creatures, and that would have been a quick, easy way to accomplish that. Not very advantageous card-wise, I'm aware, but for one mana, it was hard to pass up. Never played it, though.
REALLY happy I got 3 Assault Griffins, haha!
Pulled Martial Glory, Slaughterhorn, and Biomass Mutation. Wanted to keep the deck centered around more and more creatures, and I didn't see these helping me much, especially since both Mutation and Slaughterhorn required green to play.
Mark for Death didn't make it because I didn't think I found a use for it. Was in a hurry and didn't think it all the way through, perhaps. In retrospect, I see where it would have potentially been helpful.
Rust Scarab was a solid 4/5 that helped me win the first game, and would have aided me by getting rid of my opponent's Lashes later on, but being green and 5 mana, I thought I had better options at the time.
Nixed Shielded Passage and Furious Resistance because, again, creatures. However, I'm very leery on these two, and they proved tough cuts for me.
Great God Almighty, all the art is so siiiick! Can't get enough of the Boros pics. O_O
Rares/mythics pulled:
+ Show Spoiler +Domri flippin' Rade
Consuming Aberration
Watery Grave
Biomass Mutation
Skarrg Goliath
From the Boros special booster: Foundry Champion and Molten Primordial
Le's see if I can remember all this....
Round 1:
Gruul opponent. Won the first game because the guy forgot he can't block a creature with Madcap Skills with only one creature, lol. Proceeded to get trounced the next two games. Bloodrush and Predator's Rapport are very sneaky. 0-1
Round 2:
Dimir opponent. First game I was fortunate enough to lay down Domri Rade on turn three. But he's kind of useless if you have 4 lands, an instant, and enchantment in your hand; no creatures on your side of the field; and the top of your deck trolls you by waiting till after Domri dies to reveal to you any creatures. Second game was a little closer, but I mostly got mana-starved (partially due to too many Forests). 0-2 (guy was kind enough to donate his Domri Rade emblem, though, since he wasn't gonna be using it)
Round 3:
Had a BYE round. 'Twas good news in that I got a free win and had time to playtest the deck more. :-D Sad news is it meant I was the lowest-ranked player of that round.... T_T 1-2
Round 4:
Esper opponent. Guy had that 4/4 that bounces one of your creatures into discard one. I was swingin' for 6 each time with the Truefire Paladin off of 4 mana (thinking it would be better for me if I held onto my other creatures before he dealt with the Paladin) before he threw that down and caused me to realize the mistake of having so many cards in-hand. I couldn't catch up after that; Ciphered that "lose 3 life" spell on his 3/2 rogue and it was over from there.
Game 2, he got a really fortunate mill off of me; I lost a Beckon Apparition and 8 blasted creatures (all playable, each so helpful... ). Even threw a Thousand Lashes on a Skyjek, I believe. Magically, I was able to recover and win with a Thunderfist. Had he gotten just one or two Islands, it'd've been "gg" from there.
Final game was close. We went back and forth a bit, but he got a lead by Lashing one of my creatures and doing that silly trick with his Rogue and Cipher (and by "silly" I mean "the way it was meant to be played and combo-ed off of"). Also Devoured a couple other creatures as soon as he could; the lifegain obviously wasn't worth it to me.... Even contaminated my Forest so that I'd take 2 whenever I tapped it for mana. Kinda stalemated while I rushed to come up with any way to come back. Had 7 life left when I finally top-decked that Foundry Champion. Since that made it the second creature out on the field once it entered, his blasted rogue got destroyed and from there it was an easy matter of rolling face with the Champion. Wizards might use this as reinforcement for never letting players include the promo in their deck. ...Or, maybe, this was exactly what they were hoping for. 
I had to go after that and rush to fencing, kinda felt like a bit of a jerk to the guy, heheh....
Was a day and 30 bucks well-spent, all-in-all. The place was packed with more than 50 players. And this was in our small college town. I can't imagine how crowded it was back home.
Really enjoyed the aggression that this deck provided, but I kept losing games and I'm hesitant to blame misfortune. Know that I haven't been to a Prerelease since Mirrodin Beseiged, and I haven't drafted since Dark Ascension. However, I don't think I played the deck wrong most of the time and my sideboard didn't appear all that powerful either. Help? 
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 28 2013 21:36 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 14:28 Kinie wrote:
So new bannings/unbannings list came out.
Effective Date: February 1, 2013
Magic Online Effective Date: February 6, 2013
Modern
Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song are banned.
Magic Online Pauper
Empty the Warrens, Grapeshot, and Invigorate are banned.
Standard, Extended, Legacy, Vintage
No changes
They go into more detail explaining why the two main cards in modern got banned. So you're telling me that a 4 CMC creature that has 3/2 haste is detrimental to the format? I think most people agree that BBE is the most powerful card in a Jund deck, but it's a deck that is built upon the premise of 2-for-1s. Yes, I know the elf casts a free spell, but variance decides what that spell is, not her. You can stack the odds in your favor with fetchlands thinning your deck into hitting a spell that is Cascadable into, but it's still random. It's not Jund's fault for playing the most powerful cards in their colors. In fact, isn't that the whole point of Modern? To play these powerful - but FAIR - spells in an eternal format that is meant to encourage creativity and exciting games, and not just who can resolve their game-breaking spell first (like it is in Legacy)?
As for the Seething Song ban, that's almost exclusively for Storm decks, and IMO makes it be a much harder combo to pull off now, to the point of probably not being worth it.
I have no comments about the Pauper bannings, but I'd imagine they just cut the balls off the Storm deck for that. They posted the reasoning for the BBE banning; they want a diverse format, and jund has been doing really well for the last year or so. imo jund is still fine without it. As for the seething song ban i dont like it even with the reasoning they posted; it has a high win rate but not a lot of people play it. Doesn't that mean we'll continue to have a diverse format? i doubt storm would have become oppressive like jund did.
For fast and hilar combo there's always Modern Cherios with.Puresteel Paladin and 0 mana equipment. Apparently has a good T2 win rate.
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EPT
