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I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 02:43:00
October 09 2012 02:41 GMT
#4461
On October 09 2012 11:34 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 11:09 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Question:

Ok, so I haven't played magic seriously for quite a few years, but recently I've begun watching a lot of streams. I was watching Ceddy P's Jund deck going up agaisnt MJ's Pod.

Ceddy was attacking with a Messenger and 2 Goyfs (4/5 at the time) while MJ had all lands tapped, an untapped birthing pod, a Kiki-jiki, Restoration Angel, Sparkmage and Wall of Roots (had one -1 counter on it). Cedric's hand is a Bolt and Terminate (I think a land too, but it doesn't matter) with the mana open to cast both.

Restoration angel blocked a goyf, the wall of roots blocked the 2nd goyf, and the sparkmage blocked the Messenger. MJ activates Kiki on the restoration angel and Ceddy responds with a terminate on the Angel.

My question is, what possible reason does he have to waste the terminate there and not just bolt (or terminate) the Kiki instead? Does Kiki's ability resolve even if he gets killed? Now, all I can see is a mistake but several people were defending the line and I can't fathom the reason why (unless, as I said, his ability resolves and I'm just behind on the rules).


Once something is on the stack it will resolve so long as its targets are still legal targets. Killing the Kiki does nothing to stop the ability from resolving since it is already on the stack.

Edit: AFAIK that's how it has always been since I started playing.


With the changes to stacking mechanics (hell, I was playing long before the stack even existed and I know it has been altered further since I quit) this sounds like it is likely to be true then. Gracias. Although it seems odd that you can fizzle it by killing its target but not simply after activation.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
October 09 2012 03:18 GMT
#4462
Cute RTR combo that will never happen again:

Azor's Elocutors into Isperia. Sweet.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
October 09 2012 03:46 GMT
#4463
On October 09 2012 12:18 slyboogie wrote:
Cute RTR combo that will never happen again:

Azor's Elocutors into Isperia. Sweet.


I'm confused :<
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 09 2012 04:12 GMT
#4464
On October 09 2012 12:46 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 12:18 slyboogie wrote:
Cute RTR combo that will never happen again:

Azor's Elocutors into Isperia. Sweet.


I'm confused :<


Don't think he actually means a combo.
Get it by your hands...
bobbob
Profile Joined December 2009
United States368 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 04:31:45
October 09 2012 04:31 GMT
#4465
Well, it's kinda a combo in the sense that they have to deal damage, but don't want to attack, so they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Falls more under synergy.

It's a bit like Deadeye Conscripts in AVR draft.
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 06:08:07
October 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#4466
On October 09 2012 11:03 Judicator wrote:
Doesn't matter. Can your deck beat Zombies with Bonfire/Pillars/Searing Spear? Can your deck beat UWX control decks? Can your deck beat reanimator strategies (any of them)?
.


I tell you I need to test the deck and you ask if I can beat certain decks? Really? In making my list UWx and zombies were the two archetypes I focused on beating the most so in theory I think I would do well vs them. Not sure about reanimator at all. Grislebrand sure is strong.
icedragon
Profile Joined August 2010
86 Posts
October 10 2012 14:35 GMT
#4467
Waiting to hear more from Cincy, Judi
How I mine for drones
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
October 10 2012 16:05 GMT
#4468
A non-Judi bump... dammit... T_T
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Alay
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States660 Posts
October 10 2012 16:46 GMT
#4469
I want to start playing tournaments online. Is it realistic to try and go infinite (or at least, not be at a horrible monetary loss) using non-constructed formats? I don't have any real power decks for modern/standard, and my legacy decks, while okay, don't have nearly many of the money cards that seem to be somewhat necessary in the format. Any advice here? I read the thing last page about EV breakdown and it quite intrigued me to ask =]
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
October 10 2012 18:08 GMT
#4470
You have to be well above average in terms of skill to go infi in limited formats. For constructed formats, it's easy to go infi and even make tickets if you have a solid deck.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-10 23:39:35
October 10 2012 23:02 GMT
#4471
So SCG Cincinnati Part 3...The Tournament

+ Show Spoiler +

Round 1:
Turn 1 Game 1, he plays Deathrite Shaman. Yes, a BG deck with that card mainboard. Not only that, but 4 of mainboard. I play for a while to figure out his deck a bit more. I go to sideboard and....remember that I took out my Pithing Needles. Silently, I tell me to fuck myself later. Proceed to lose to game 2.

0-1

The next 5 rounds was me playing weird/untuned decks. All of my wins were 2-1s, those losses would all come on hilarious situations.

Against Jund Zombies, I crush him game 1 on the back of Fiend Hunter/Angel of Glory's Rise interaction (get Angel on the field with Fiend Hunter in the GY and hide the Angel under Fiend Hunter), he Dreadbores my Fiend Hunter hiding the Angel underneath, so I exile his Zombies, get a Huntmaster back and get my Fiend Hunter back...way to 4 for 0 yourself. I remember losing to a triple Messenger draw, but crush game 3 on the back of of the same interaction. Yes, I know that interaction is easily broken, but I put him on a severe lack of 3 damage instants. I boarded the same way against all of the zombie decks, -2 Conscripts -1 Gavony, +1 Fiend Hunter +1 Thragtusk +1 Vault.

Against RG Aggro, Huntmaster mirrors boil down to whoever flips their Huntmaster on their opponent's turn. My opponent did not realize this and lost. I play Serenity both games and crush. Had me at 3 one game, I activated Vault for 8 and that was that.

Against monoRed, I sat next to Brad Nelson and Caleb Durward. Diagonally across from 2 people that were featured on stream in the last 2 rounds. But I am playing against RDW. Game 1 he nut draws me, just hit 3 lands and went creature creature creature burn burn burn. Game 2, he loses to Huntmaster on 3, Thragtusk on 4, Vault on 5. Game 3, gets me to 3 life, proceeds to draw I shit you not...6 straight lands. Rough beats. A few interesting (hilarious) things happen in this round, I'll mention it later.

So I hit 5-1, feeling good. My friend is 6-0, looking like he made all the right calls. We head into round 7, I finally lose to Jund Zombies (Bloodthrone Vampire did #work) and sideboarded Deathrite Shaman. I am like place 58 right now after this round.

Round 8, I am playing against Caleb Durward's UR Delver deck. I knew he was playing it because he was sitting next to me in round 6 and likewise he knew what I was running. Proceed to punt the fuck out of game 1. I am not suppose to lose with 2 Fiend Hunters and 2 Huntmasters. I tossed my Conscripts the turn before he played Tamiyo (didn't think the deck could support Tamiyo) and gained him enough tempo before I can haymaker him out. I knew he was holding Bonfire (flipped on 2 off of Delver) and I didn't exactly think things through, should have left Gavony mana up and he was actually just dead from that. Game 2 I crush him when I draw 2 Conscripts and a Caverns to steal his flipped Delver with a Pike, taking him from 18 to 8 to dead. Game 3 he had the same setup and I didn't have the Conscripts and that's all she wrote.

Round 9, I sit down and the guy starts whining about Sphinx's Revelation. I am hoping to the Magic gods that he's playing a GW. Nope, playing Humans with Geist of Saint Traft. I laugh a little at this point and just lose straight up. Chance to make top 64 spoiled by my worst match up.

All in all disappointing to lose out of top 64.

My friend goes to draw his final round into....9th place. Honestly I can't even feel bad for my performance after that. He thought his tiebreakers were good enough to draw into top 8, 75% with 2 rounds to go and goes Win-Draw to 9th. #SuicideWatch



Part 4...Outtakes (sort of)

Hilarious things that happened...throughout the weekend.
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Walking to your seat and your opponent is on the same side of the aisle as you and it becomes an awkward who gets to walk.

2. My friend who use to play at the local store before her career (pay attention to this word choice) took her elsewhere. She was featured already before finally dropping a match. All of the (alleged) murderfaces were sitting in this little area, me, Durward, Nelson, her, another featured player, a zombies player and the RDW player. So the Zombies player starts hitting on her, #tryingrealhard. She doesn't mention she has a boyfriend already. Nelson is looking over occasionally. I am on autopilot with my deck against RDW so I am playing Observer-mode with all this. So zombies man asks what she does for a living, she goes an attorney. Nelson at this point shoots a look over. Zombies dude was like in I-hope-she-doesn't-return-the-question mode....and she shoots it back immediately. The guy goes UHHHHHHHHH. #struckout. Hilarious shit.

3. My other friend losing games because he can't count lands (or bother asking for lands) before making plays.

4. Another friend peeling his one of Bonfire. Miracling. I thought he should have yelled "ONE-OF!" and then slam it. Too nice to do so.

5. Same friend (playing Zombies) beating 2 Curse of Death's Hold after morbid Brimstone Volleys. Hilarious.

6. Hearing someone go take 18 doublestrike, go to 66.



Edit:

DENIED, I am telling you that you don't need to playtest to think about this. There are 0 viable mid range strategies without Red. Period. Thragtusk is that good and ALL of the control decks are running 8 wrath effects.
Get it by your hands...
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-11 06:56:13
October 11 2012 06:55 GMT
#4472
I think you have a misunderstanding of "midrange". You said you tested sublime archangel variations of the deck. That is not midrange. Midrange decks do not care about thragtusk, they RUN thragtusks.
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
October 11 2012 07:39 GMT
#4473
Junk Midrange is honestly not very viable. What do you play besides Thragtusk, Lingering Souls and Restoration angel? Zombies? that doesn't make it midrange at all. Honestly I just question it because I haven't even looked into standard yet. I've been more than content playing an actual deck in Legacy. But, again once the format shapes up I will definitely be looking at playing in the format again.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-11 08:55:54
October 11 2012 08:53 GMT
#4474
On October 11 2012 01:46 Alay wrote:
I want to start playing tournaments online. Is it realistic to try and go infinite (or at least, not be at a horrible monetary loss) using non-constructed formats? I don't have any real power decks for modern/standard, and my legacy decks, while okay, don't have nearly many of the money cards that seem to be somewhat necessary in the format. Any advice here? I read the thing last page about EV breakdown and it quite intrigued me to ask =]


the cheapest formats to get in to on Magic Online are traditionally pauper and block constructed.

Block is great cause say you start with Ravinca, you get a deck, you do well, you build up your block collection. Then when the last set rotates out (Avycn Restored, Innistrad, DA) you'll have most of standard already from your block cards and you can start playing standard. (also if there is a standard deck utilizing most of the cards from your block deck, and almost no older cards, you can buy the few cards your missing and play standard too.)

Modern is a big investment, it's something you either want to play so you shell out for the staples, or you don't want to play so you ignore it.
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 11 2012 13:13 GMT
#4475
On October 11 2012 15:55 DEN1ED wrote:
I think you have a misunderstanding of "midrange". You said you tested sublime archangel variations of the deck. That is not midrange. Midrange decks do not care about thragtusk, they RUN thragtusks.


Ok...so whats the point of black then? It's a midrange deck. You aren't going to outgrind any of the control decks and Falkenrath Aristocrat can actually go through Thragtusk. Unless you post a list, it's pointless theorycrafting. Creature based decks have a very hard time going through the 8+ wrath effects of control decks.

Also, I thought it was very obvious that Junk that would play Thragtusk...
Get it by your hands...
Rainofpain
Profile Joined December 2010
United States125 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-11 20:29:01
October 11 2012 20:28 GMT
#4476
I have a GP Trial on the 20th and was wondering if I should play (If I even go to it) Scapeshift, Kiki Pod, or Affinity?
I have never played Modern but I know what decks are the good decks.
It`s hard to read bad players because they`re bad - Idra
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-11 20:49:21
October 11 2012 20:46 GMT
#4477
Play with whatever you know how to pilot, aka know the match ups, know your lines of play.

Edit:

Also, if you are playing Scapeshift, and expect to play Scapeshift mirrors, please play some Reverberates for the match up. I don't know if the decks has changed that much, but I know that was some sick tech at the first Modern PTQ around here, just basically waited for opponents to kill themselves.
Get it by your hands...
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
October 11 2012 23:17 GMT
#4478
Bah, can't decide between U/W or G/W humans for States...I have more pieces of G/W humans, but it seems a lot worse.
ParanoiaDHerO
Profile Joined July 2009
United States183 Posts
October 12 2012 02:46 GMT
#4479
On October 12 2012 08:17 deth2munkies wrote:
Bah, can't decide between U/W or G/W humans for States...I have more pieces of G/W humans, but it seems a lot worse.


U/W superior, bite the bullet imo.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
October 12 2012 04:00 GMT
#4480
On October 12 2012 11:46 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 08:17 deth2munkies wrote:
Bah, can't decide between U/W or G/W humans for States...I have more pieces of G/W humans, but it seems a lot worse.


U/W superior, bite the bullet imo.


Well U/W is off the table now because the cheapest I can get Geists for locally is $35 a piece and I'm on a $220 budget. That pushes it over $300. If I had time I could get them for cheaper online, but alas, I didn't know states was this weekend till this morning.
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