EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 22
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snorlax
United States755 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 21 2010 19:51 Zoler wrote: Thinking about the masticores, then my deck would almost be a copy of the one that won Nevada state championship.  Might get them after playtesting a bit. This is the first time I'm actually spending money on a deck, but I picked big red because it's always been my favorite. Rather play a worse but fun deck than something I don't like and win. Thinking of building an u/b control tho, but those goddamn jaces T_T I am testing a UB control without the Jace 2s, using little Jace instead to get me under them and have a Pierce play at 4. Using Duress/Inquisition over Mana Leaks so I can get turn 2 Chalices and not have to leave mana open for Leak. Then race towards a Frost Titan at 5. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
a guy has a 3/3 goblin i attack with a 2/2 goblin he blocks with his 3/3 i play http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Snakeform on his goblin if he plays http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Righteousness&sn=10th Edition , does the creature get +7/+7 or does it still stay 1/1, since snakeform says "the creature is 1/1 until end of turn" ? also, i have the same question but what if the creature is 3/3 with a +2/+2 enchantment on it. does snakeform bring the creature to 1/1 but the enchantment still counts so it will be 3/3 ? | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
on another note, this weekend draft, i got passed second pick ratchet bomb and opened a pack 2 Koth. got 3rd place for 2 packs since i forced red for the koth. still all in all a good night. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 22 2010 05:15 Orpheos wrote: the snakeform only affects the base stats of the goblin. so if it has +x/+x from anything, it will be added onto 1/1 This is correct. Power- and toughness-modifying effects (e.g. +X/+X) are applied after effects that set a creature's power and toughness to a specific value. And yes, the layer system is a complete nightmare. | ||
BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On November 22 2010 05:15 Orpheos wrote: the snakeform only affects the base stats of the goblin. so if it has +x/+x from anything, it will be added onto 1/1 on another note, this weekend draft, i got passed second pick ratchet bomb and opened a pack 2 Koth. got 3rd place for 2 packs since i forced red for the koth. still all in all a good night. just a side story, I got blown out kithkin vs faeries by snakeform once, I knew he was running it as a 1 of, and thought i was fine cause I had 2x honor of the pure out... too bad that card makes your creature blue/green =( | ||
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evilsaint
United States309 Posts
Also, if anybody wants to snag a few matches, hit me up - silentrawr on MTGO. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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evilsaint
United States309 Posts
On November 22 2010 13:47 Judicator wrote: You need Jace 2s for that RUG deck to run efficiently. I tried dancing around Jace 2s for RUG and it just plummets in terms of consistency. I've read some things about how Jace 1.0s in the Control vs Control matchup can help you keep one stuck, especially G1. Is that sort of overblown? I would run 4x 1.0, either way - it's slower to use the ultimate, but almost nearly as effective. The 2.0 fateseal is fucking nuts, but worth another $80 per? Umm... Any ideas about the other control decks with only Jace 1.0? UW looks interesting, as does UB. More stable manabases, more specific answers to problem cards, etc... | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On November 22 2010 05:37 TheYango wrote: This is correct. Power- and toughness-modifying effects (e.g. +X/+X) are applied after effects that set a creature's power and toughness to a specific value. And yes, the layer system is a complete nightmare. just fyi, you really need to pay attention to the wording of the spells/abilities of things to determine this sometimes. I can't remember what card it was before, but I had a similar situation where I giant growthed and a friend had something that made the power and toughness stay at 1/1 until end of turn no matter what. It was something like humility. Ignoring the fact that this is an enchantment and therefor constant, 'is a 1/1' the word 'is/are' is the key word here. Where as snake form says 'becomes a'. The subtle difference here being that the first is a constant statement, it will always be a 1/1 as long as the card effect is playing. and the latter is something that happens once and you can lay more stuff on top of it. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
On November 22 2010 17:27 evilsaint wrote: I've read some things about how Jace 1.0s in the Control vs Control matchup can help you keep one stuck, especially G1. Is that sort of overblown? I would run 4x 1.0, either way - it's slower to use the ultimate, but almost nearly as effective. The 2.0 fateseal is fucking nuts, but worth another $80 per? Umm... Any ideas about the other control decks with only Jace 1.0? UW looks interesting, as does UB. More stable manabases, more specific answers to problem cards, etc... The only "uses Jace 1.0 but not 2.0" decklist I've seen is Pyromancer Ascension. Getting +1 card advantage vs. getting card selection AND the +1 anyways isn't even close, and that's not even counting the other abilities that Jace 2.0 has. The other difference is that Jace 1.0 almost never gets to ultimate because he gives your opponent a billion cards to kill Jace or you before it matters, whereas Jace 2.0 never gets to ultimate because your opponent will scoop if they can't stop it. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 22 2010 17:27 evilsaint wrote: I've read some things about how Jace 1.0s in the Control vs Control matchup can help you keep one stuck, especially G1. Is that sort of overblown? I would run 4x 1.0, either way - it's slower to use the ultimate, but almost nearly as effective. The 2.0 fateseal is fucking nuts, but worth another $80 per? Umm... Any ideas about the other control decks with only Jace 1.0? UW looks interesting, as does UB. More stable manabases, more specific answers to problem cards, etc... UW(X) uses both some times. Jaces aren't used for their ultimates, they're not going to get there. The reason I don't like Jace 2 is because of the prevalence of it and the recent spike in UB where a Pit can just run all over Jace 2 if you don't have Edge/Bolt up. The other thing is that I play Pierce mainboard if I can, so my turn 4 play means I get Jace to stick theirs (or have mine stick) and have a mana open for Piercing their counter. That being said, I am also testing a WUG deck with Luminarchs and it just rapes Jace 2s so hard.. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
Jaces aren't used for their ultimates, they're not going to get there. i agree on little jace. his ultimate does not win the game immediately and it gives your opponent cards. you should only +2 him to keep him alive and -1 more times. for big jace his ultimate does win the game immediately. and once you have board control, i would just fateseal away your opponents answers and win the game with jace. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 23 2010 00:04 Orpheos wrote: i agree on little jace. his ultimate does not win the game immediately and it gives your opponent cards. you should only +2 him to keep him alive and -1 more times. for big jace his ultimate does win the game immediately. and once you have board control, i would just fateseal away your opponents answers and win the game with jace. If your opponent has no answers for the Jace, chances are they're not going to have answers for your manlands, titans, persecutors, wurmcoils. | ||
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snorlax
United States755 Posts
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On November 23 2010 03:35 Judicator wrote: If your opponent has no answers for the Jace, chances are they're not going to have answers for your manlands, titans, persecutors, wurmcoils. yea but that requires you to tap out to resolve something. idk i guess i dont have that much experience playing jace. i just usually feel more comfortable plus-ing him. obviously if i have lik 2 cards in hand im gonna brainstorm. but if i have like 4-6 action cards including some counterspells, id rather just ez-mode to victory. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 23 2010 07:40 Orpheos wrote: yea but that requires you to tap out to resolve something. idk i guess i dont have that much experience playing jace. i just usually feel more comfortable plus-ing him. obviously if i have lik 2 cards in hand im gonna brainstorm. but if i have like 4-6 action cards including some counterspells, id rather just ez-mode to victory. From my limited experience playing with Jace 2s (don't have an actual playset--only worked with them in online playtesting), most of the real action comes from +0 and -1, because they generate real advantage. You +2 to him to keep him alive, or to turn the clock once you've got enough action to hold the lead, but it honestly doesn't matter at that point. Once you're in fateseal mode, the game is probably over, and you're just playing out the actions. It's obviously a key component of the card, but its the +0 and -1 that actually do the work of winning games. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
His 0 and -1 is what breaks him in some decks, like UB with Persecutors where a turn 4 (or 3 if you were holding Chalice) drop puts the opponent on a short timer that's out of the major removal's range at turn 4 or 5 or in RUG where him + Oracle is even stupider card advantage. | ||
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stk01001
United States786 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:06 snorlax wrote: yeah just got my 4 always played midrange all last standard but finally just bit it and bought em makes every fun standard deck playable though Id say its worth it. I now have all the cards for like most standard decks (at least some variation of them) Masticore is really good especially if you are running copper myr because it uses a resource most red decks don't utilize kind of like grim lavamancer although the discard is tough. It just strait beats a lot of decks if you can keep it up. Id try the lux cannons though if you are looking for fun maybe even add contagion clasp as it is a good card for this standard and synergies with it well. It is really fun and alright prob atleast not any worse then what you are running. how much is it for 4 jace's online? Isn't it like $400+?? My jaw dropped when I saw how much he was it's rare to see newer MTG cards worth that much at least as far as I know... just started playing again.. is it really worth getting into standard online? I was thinking about it, but was also thinking to mabye just redeem the cards I already dropped all this money on and go to a local shop for constructed and use online for draft. Or is there a good online tournament scene for constructed? Also is there a time limit on how long you can wait before you redeem your cards? I don't want to get stuck with non-redeemable cards without knowing it.... | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On November 23 2010 07:52 TheYango wrote: From my limited experience playing with Jace 2s (don't have an actual playset--only worked with them in online playtesting), most of the real action comes from +0 and -1, because they generate real advantage. You +2 to him to keep him alive, or to turn the clock once you've got enough action to hold the lead, but it honestly doesn't matter at that point. Once you're in fateseal mode, the game is probably over, and you're just playing out the actions. It's obviously a key component of the card, but its the +0 and -1 that actually do the work of winning games. my point was toward the person who said jaces will never get to their ultimate. i said "once you have board control" its easy to just fateseal and ult the jace while holding a bunch of counterspells and answers. that doesnt mean you should only ever be +2ing your jace. so we are all in agreement =P if you have a hand of 4 counterspells and a wurmcoil engine and they have no board presence, are you going to tap out for wurmcoil or are you just going to sit and fateseal them? are you going to keep brainstorming with your full hand as opposed to making sure they keep drawing only land or irrelevant spells? or even just knowing exactly what they are going to draw? oh and to the person above^^ welcome to the mythic rarity. | ||
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