Im here just because im bored (i don't play GW :p) but i see this discussion about i payed X amount of $ i played X amount of hours worth it more/less than X product where i spent X amount of blabla.
Barring the border examples of incredibly short games where it is almost a throwaway to buy it you can't really justify it (this is an old notion of older PC gamer, where games were supposed to be longer than movies).
I've played the games since 3yo so i can say i played games for 20 years and many times i could put 10 hours of some game over 100 hours of other. Some massively played multiplayer games have tons of "wasted" hours, it feels almost like investment in something and you start getting only pecentages of what is the 10 hour gameplay of SP, this is rather visualizations rather than true example.
For an estimated example, i could put Max Payne 1 playthrough (was it 15-20 hour? more or less) over some of 200 hours spent in CS/WoW/whatever. MP1 was a compacted, fun,thrilling, UNIQUE experience Though probably the whole amount of experience in CS/WoW(i think i got few thousand of hours in CS in my life) overshadows any singleplayer experience i ever had and then the whole argument crumbles, or maybe not. Basically multiplayer gaming revolves more around investing time and finding your own fun here and there, singleplayer gives you a proposed way of having fun in a certain borders. In some cases hour=/hour.
That would explain why whenever i have flashbacks of nostalgia to SP titles i remember the whole titles and whenver i have flashbacks to some old Multiplayer gameplay i remember the events that took place rather than the whole. This was also a reason why i stopped WoW few years ago, because WoW shifted more into routine and the memorable events became less plentiful.
There is also a flipside to this, maybe it is because of how our brain works, sometimes the grind/"non-event" factor of MMOs/arpgs gives us a pleasure. I called that "a job done" pleasure. When you invest X hour of gameplay to get X item/achievement/gold/status just like in real life where you spend X hours to finally get a payday. Thats why it is hard to throw away those titles because they mimick it well.
On December 19 2012 21:24 bgx wrote: Im here just because im bored (i don't play GW :p) but i see this discussion about i payed X amount of $ i played X amount of hours worth it more/less than X product where i spent X amount of blabla.
Barring the border examples of incredibly short games where it is almost a throwaway to buy it you can't really justify it (this is an old notion of older PC gamer, where games were supposed to be longer than movies).
I've played the games since 3yo so i can say i played games for 20 years and many times i could put 10 hours of some game over 100 hours of other. Some massively played multiplayer games have tons of "wasted" hours, it feels almost like investment in something and you start getting only pecentages of what is the 10 hour gameplay of SP, this is rather visualizations rather than true example.
For an estimated example, i could put Max Payne 1 playthrough (was it 15-20 hour? more or less) over some of 200 hours spent in CS/WoW/whatever. MP1 was a compacted, fun,thrilling, UNIQUE experience Though probably the whole amount of experience in CS/WoW(i think i got few thousand of hours in CS in my life) overshadows any singleplayer experience i ever had and then the whole argument crumbles, or maybe not. Basically multiplayer gaming revolves more around investing time and finding your own fun here and there, singleplayer gives you a proposed way of having fun in a certain borders. In some cases hour=/hour.
That would explain why whenever i have flashbacks of nostalgia to SP titles i remember the whole titles and whenver i have flashbacks to some old Multiplayer gameplay i remember the events that took place rather than the whole. This was also a reason why i stopped WoW few years ago, because WoW shifted more into routine and the memorable events became less plentiful.
There is also a flipside to this, maybe it is because of how our brain works, sometimes the grind/"non-event" factor of MMOs/arpgs gives us a pleasure. I called that "a job done" pleasure. When you invest X hour of gameplay to get X item/achievement/gold/status just like in real life where you spend X hours to finally get a payday. Thats why it is hard to throw away those titles because they mimick it well.
Besides all that's been said and I do agree that the game missed the mark at least for me and several others that I still have hope for this game. And from what I've heard a couple months ago(I haven't been following it since so Idk if anything's changed) is that they are working to improve end game and the reward system,etc. I still think this has potential but I'm not holding my breath.
Anet just near totally abandoned their pvp community in favor of making all these pve events. S/Tpvp has been dwindling since launch and nothing's gonna happen until january/february, so there's very little incentive to play. The format of the tournaments and lack of matchmaking hurt the community like hell and totally killed any competetive aspect from developing.
Funny when one ESL game coordinator was asking in reddit about the game as they were interested in adding the title to ESL, people had to tell him we can't even make custom games so any form of organized tournament from 3rd party is impossible >_>
On December 19 2012 23:50 daemir wrote: Anet just near totally abandoned their pvp community in favor of making all these pve events. S/Tpvp has been dwindling since launch and nothing's gonna happen until january/february, so there's very little incentive to play. The format of the tournaments and lack of matchmaking hurt the community like hell and totally killed any competetive aspect from developing.
Funny when one ESL game coordinator was asking in reddit about the game as they were interested in adding the title to ESL, people had to tell him we can't even make custom games so any form of organized tournament from 3rd party is impossible >_>
The lack of PvP support is what make me and my friends stop playing it. We had a lot of people exited to make a good team or 2, but then months passed and we were still stuck playing meaningless free tournaments.
Half a year later, still no possibility to custom game between teams, no ladder, no ranking, no viewer mode for tournaments, and all the hype around the game dead. Just another type of tournaments which give a bit better rewards and that's it.
For a game which marketized itself as a PvP game, with no end game PvE, they are really lacking commitement..
On December 19 2012 21:05 Otolia wrote: @ryndaris : Given the numerous free beta tests, I don't know how you could have mistaken the game for anything else than it is. The design of the game was clear from the get-go : WvW unlimited content, PvP, and a single-player campaign in a permanent world where end-game doesn't exist. What were you expecting honestly ?
Heh, yes the beta tests: three weekend-long affairs. Personally I could only play for a day in the first, a bit more than that in the second and not at all in the third. I don't know about you, but personally I couldn't really judge an MMO based on that small a sample. The game seemed fine at the time, since there was plenty of content to experience in a short time frame - additionally, it was all low level "tutorial" content so I assumed that any issues I had would be fixed 'till release per the rabid "IT'S BETA" mantra echoing through the forums. Obviously adopting a skeptic's outlook at the very beginning would have been optimal, but I ended up getting caught in the hype instead.
On December 19 2012 21:05 Otolia wrote: @ryndaris : Given the numerous free beta tests, I don't know how you could have mistaken the game for anything else than it is. The design of the game was clear from the get-go : WvW unlimited content, PvP, and a single-player campaign in a permanent world where end-game doesn't exist. What were you expecting honestly ?
Heh, yes the beta tests: three weekend-long affairs. Personally I could only play for a day in the first, a bit more than that in the second and not at all in the third. I don't know about you, but personally I couldn't really judge an MMO based on that small a sample. The game seemed fine at the time, since there was plenty of content to experience in a short time frame - additionally, it was all low level "tutorial" content so I assumed that any issues I had would be fixed 'till release per the rabid "IT'S BETA" mantra echoing through the forums. Obviously adopting a skeptic's outlook at the very beginning would have been optimal, but I ended up getting caught in the hype instead.
You still don't say what you were expecting. I can understand why Noocta left because they are moving too slowly in the PvP department, or why any WvWer in a bad server would think that WvW is only about zerg rush but you never said what's your problem with it. And it shouldn't be that hard because there are issues with GW2 (as with every other AAA title)
No MMO has lived up to it's hype in long long time. Anyone expecting the game to be everything the hype machine said it would be was either being foolish or hasn't spent much time following MMOs. They evolve over time and take years to reach their potential.
I will say this though, while GW2 didn't turn out to be the life changing, genre shattering behemoth some thought it would be, it really made an effort to be different, and added some features I don't think I could live without in an MMO anymore (downleveling and lack of mob/node tackling specifically).
On December 19 2012 23:50 daemir wrote: Anet just near totally abandoned their pvp community in favor of making all these pve events. S/Tpvp has been dwindling since launch and nothing's gonna happen until january/february, so there's very little incentive to play. The format of the tournaments and lack of matchmaking hurt the community like hell and totally killed any competetive aspect from developing.
Funny when one ESL game coordinator was asking in reddit about the game as they were interested in adding the title to ESL, people had to tell him we can't even make custom games so any form of organized tournament from 3rd party is impossible >_>
The lack of PvP support is what make me and my friends stop playing it. We had a lot of people exited to make a good team or 2, but then months passed and we were still stuck playing meaningless free tournaments.
Half a year later, still no possibility to custom game between teams, no ladder, no ranking, no viewer mode for tournaments, and all the hype around the game dead. Just another type of tournaments which give a bit better rewards and that's it.
For a game which marketized itself as a PvP game, with no end game PvE, they are really lacking commitement..
Have the devs said anything about additional maps/gametypes for pvp at all? CTF for example?
On December 19 2012 21:05 Otolia wrote: @ryndaris : Given the numerous free beta tests, I don't know how you could have mistaken the game for anything else than it is. The design of the game was clear from the get-go : WvW unlimited content, PvP, and a single-player campaign in a permanent world where end-game doesn't exist. What were you expecting honestly ?
Heh, yes the beta tests: three weekend-long affairs. Personally I could only play for a day in the first, a bit more than that in the second and not at all in the third. I don't know about you, but personally I couldn't really judge an MMO based on that small a sample. The game seemed fine at the time, since there was plenty of content to experience in a short time frame - additionally, it was all low level "tutorial" content so I assumed that any issues I had would be fixed 'till release per the rabid "IT'S BETA" mantra echoing through the forums. Obviously adopting a skeptic's outlook at the very beginning would have been optimal, but I ended up getting caught in the hype instead.
You still don't say what you were expecting. I can understand why Noocta left because they are moving too slowly in the PvP department, or why any WvWer in a bad server would think that WvW is only about zerg rush but you never said what's your problem with it. And it shouldn't be that hard because there are issues with GW2 (as with every other AAA title)
I was expecting a game with satisfying and engaging gameplay (combat), which turned out to be anything but after ~30 hours of play time. I was expecting a personal story that was interesting and a driving force to the PvE experience; it turns out to be somewhat similar to that until ~40, then it's awfully long and repetitive missions become a hindrance. I expected a WvW mode where a meaningful, rewarding contribution could be achieved no matter the size of the group; where siege had a role to play; where taking a keep would feel meaningful and where strategy and execution would play an important role. I expected dungeons that were fun and interesting, not tedious trash-killing spamfests. I expected more than 3 accessible staff skins for the entirety of the leveling experience (the same goes for armor and other weapons). I expected less disgusting RNG, which at this point permeates the game completely. But most of all, I expected my actions in the game, my character, to FEEL MEANINGFUL. The whole point of dynamic events was supposed to be a dynamic, persistent world that we as players could influence through the events - I haven't taken part in a single dynamic event that made me feel like I had changed something in the world, it all feels insignificant and disposable. Not a single experience had me form any sort of attachment to my character, nor to the world of Tyria. The same goes for loot: it's all generic blue/green/yellow sword of XY, utterly replaceable in every way. The only exceptions are the handful of unique exotics and legendaries that require inhuman amounts of grinding to acquire... how the devs dared claim that there wasn't going to be any grinding in GW2 is beyond me, since the vast majority of activity that leads to anything remotely meaningful is just that.
Hey, OP here. I haven't been to this thread in quite some time (first newborn coming soon!). Glad to see so many TL picking up GW2.
Just giving a heads up to the community that if we still have people here looking for a home, or those wishing to find themselves more involved in WvW, our doors are open.
On December 20 2012 18:04 irninja wrote: Hey, OP here. I haven't been to this thread in quite some time (first newborn coming soon!). Glad to see so many TL picking up GW2.
Just giving a heads up to the community that if we still have people here looking for a home, or those wishing to find themselves more involved in WvW, our doors are open.
Bought this game under the pretense it was a PvP game with some depth, sub-par in every aspect. As bgx said, time wise I got my moneys worth from this game but I literally have 0 memorable experiences.
On December 19 2012 21:05 Otolia wrote: @ryndaris : Given the numerous free beta tests, I don't know how you could have mistaken the game for anything else than it is. The design of the game was clear from the get-go : WvW unlimited content, PvP, and a single-player campaign in a permanent world where end-game doesn't exist. What were you expecting honestly ?
Heh, yes the beta tests: three weekend-long affairs. Personally I could only play for a day in the first, a bit more than that in the second and not at all in the third. I don't know about you, but personally I couldn't really judge an MMO based on that small a sample. The game seemed fine at the time, since there was plenty of content to experience in a short time frame - additionally, it was all low level "tutorial" content so I assumed that any issues I had would be fixed 'till release per the rabid "IT'S BETA" mantra echoing through the forums. Obviously adopting a skeptic's outlook at the very beginning would have been optimal, but I ended up getting caught in the hype instead.
You still don't say what you were expecting. I can understand why Noocta left because they are moving too slowly in the PvP department, or why any WvWer in a bad server would think that WvW is only about zerg rush but you never said what's your problem with it. And it shouldn't be that hard because there are issues with GW2 (as with every other AAA title)
I was expecting a game with satisfying and engaging gameplay (combat), which turned out to be anything but after ~30 hours of play time. I was expecting a personal story that was interesting and a driving force to the PvE experience; it turns out to be somewhat similar to that until ~40, then it's awfully long and repetitive missions become a hindrance. I expected a WvW mode where a meaningful, rewarding contribution could be achieved no matter the size of the group; where siege had a role to play; where taking a keep would feel meaningful and where strategy and execution would play an important role. I expected dungeons that were fun and interesting, not tedious trash-killing spamfests. I expected more than 3 accessible staff skins for the entirety of the leveling experience (the same goes for armor and other weapons). I expected less disgusting RNG, which at this point permeates the game completely. But most of all, I expected my actions in the game, my character, to FEEL MEANINGFUL. The whole point of dynamic events was supposed to be a dynamic, persistent world that we as players could influence through the events - I haven't taken part in a single dynamic event that made me feel like I had changed something in the world, it all feels insignificant and disposable. Not a single experience had me form any sort of attachment to my character, nor to the world of Tyria. The same goes for loot: it's all generic blue/green/yellow sword of XY, utterly replaceable in every way. The only exceptions are the handful of unique exotics and legendaries that require inhuman amounts of grinding to acquire... how the devs dared claim that there wasn't going to be any grinding in GW2 is beyond me, since the vast majority of activity that leads to anything remotely meaningful is just that.
I can't agree with any of the points you made and I think you are wrong on everything aside from the RNG (but I don't have a problem with that). Well that's too bad for you.
Too busy removing ANet's knife from my engineer's back to enjoy the game nowadays :p , but i'll still main engi anyways since im just that much better at him than other profession....
On December 19 2012 23:50 daemir wrote: Anet just near totally abandoned their pvp community in favor of making all these pve events. S/Tpvp has been dwindling since launch and nothing's gonna happen until january/february, so there's very little incentive to play. The format of the tournaments and lack of matchmaking hurt the community like hell and totally killed any competetive aspect from developing.
Funny when one ESL game coordinator was asking in reddit about the game as they were interested in adding the title to ESL, people had to tell him we can't even make custom games so any form of organized tournament from 3rd party is impossible >_>
The lack of PvP support is what make me and my friends stop playing it. We had a lot of people exited to make a good team or 2, but then months passed and we were still stuck playing meaningless free tournaments.
Half a year later, still no possibility to custom game between teams, no ladder, no ranking, no viewer mode for tournaments, and all the hype around the game dead. Just another type of tournaments which give a bit better rewards and that's it.
For a game which marketized itself as a PvP game, with no end game PvE, they are really lacking commitement..
Have the devs said anything about additional maps/gametypes for pvp at all? CTF for example?
There's a new map in pub games, but not in tournaments. They keep saying to give them time, and I did. But it's been half a year now.. it's way too slow.
Gametype is fine, even if not original, conquest will always be a classic. What the game needed is a ladder, some kind of ranking so you can see who's better than other, and a custom game possibility so the better team can compet between each other. Not a sign of that on the horizon. And it make me sad because I was heavily involve in the game. Can't go further because of lifetime NDA but pre release everything seemed undercontrol and quick to go online.
I've been a hardcore GvG player in GW. Gave up any hope about PvP in this game being relevant when I saw the first combat trailer.
Although the skills and combat system are awful I still had a lot of fun exploring the world. GW2 has some of the best designed overworld zones I've ever seen and they're generally very fun to play through and explore. That's about the only good point about the game.
It doesn't want to have meaningful open world mechanics, it doesn't want to be a successor to GW, but sadly it also fails as a theme park MMORPG.
EPT
