EPTGuild Wars 2 - Page 108
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
Anon06
United States203 Posts
| ||
|
Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 22 2012 00:53 Anon06 wrote: stun and cc where the worst part of wow losing control of your character isn't fun nor fair if you class doesn't have any. =/ I hate to throw the league thing out there, but this is more of a bronze-league-level complaint. I don't profess to be the best SC2 player in the universe, but I don't call the game stupid when I get proxy 2rax'd. If you don't enjoy being chain CC'd, don't stand in the open or coordinate your interrupts/dispells/trinket with the rest of your team. If a team lets my Spriest triplefear their team, then let myself and my druid hardcast, they deserve to eat fear/poly/RoF/DF/Clone while one of them blows up. Good teams don't. I'm trying to discuss this from a 2k+ rating perspective, however. The point made about healing is a very strong one. With less healing power, you require less CC in order to land a kill. In a game without CC or healing, you're going to have VERY short engagements- much like a MOBA. Teamfights in MOBAs last a few seconds. This engagement timer can be changed by the ratio of dps to healthpools, but the engagements will be less dynamic with less healing and CC. It is certainly an interesting concept, but doesn't this feel a little too overly offensive? If everyone is running around and spamcasting damage abilities with less CC and healing? Doesn't this turn into a DPS race? Sorry for my lack of GW experience- if any high rated GW'ers care to enlighten me, I'd be happy to listen. As it is, I can't wait to jump in anyway- WoW was a PvE game with a great PvP scene, I can't wait to play an MMO that was based around PvP from the beginning. | ||
|
Anon06
United States203 Posts
edit: an example to debunk your bronze theory: idra is a pro player right? does it look like he has fun when he gets rushed early game? by all his rage I'm going to go ahead and say no but he's not bronze right? just because it's in the game and/or adapted to (which idra chooses not to) doesn't make it anymore fun. | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
On February 22 2012 01:51 Crownlol wrote: I hate to throw the league thing out there, but this is more of a bronze-league-level complaint. I don't profess to be the best SC2 player in the universe, but I don't call the game stupid when I get proxy 2rax'd. If you don't enjoy being chain CC'd, don't stand in the open or coordinate your interrupts/dispells/trinket with the rest of your team. If a team lets my Spriest triplefear their team, then let myself and my druid hardcast, they deserve to eat fear/poly/RoF/DF/Clone while one of them blows up. Good teams don't. I'm trying to discuss this from a 2k+ rating perspective, however. The point made about healing is a very strong one. With less healing power, you require less CC in order to land a kill. In a game without CC or healing, you're going to have VERY short engagements- much like a MOBA. Teamfights in MOBAs last a few seconds. This engagement timer can be changed by the ratio of dps to healthpools, but the engagements will be less dynamic with less healing and CC. It is certainly an interesting concept, but doesn't this feel a little too overly offensive? If everyone is running around and spamcasting damage abilities with less CC and healing? Doesn't this turn into a DPS race? Sorry for my lack of GW experience- if any high rated GW'ers care to enlighten me, I'd be happy to listen. As it is, I can't wait to jump in anyway- WoW was a PvE game with a great PvP scene, I can't wait to play an MMO that was based around PvP from the beginning. Heals and CC's were a big part of GW PvP. In GW2, from what I've seen, you won't have dedicated healers but everyone is going to have a decent self-heal ability and some of the classess will be able to cast some healing (be it direct or over time) spells on their team(mate) so it's not like healing is completely gone, just the "healer" classes are gone. There's also quite a lot of CC (snares, stuns and other forms of disable) so coordination and tactics are still present. | ||
|
3772
Czech Republic434 Posts
| ||
|
Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 22 2012 02:00 Anon06 wrote: Again all I said was it wasn't fun and it sucks if you don't have any. I never said the game was stupid. I also said it scales. I wasn't bad at the game I dealt with it and adapted but it doesn't mean that made it a fun mechanic. edit: an example to debunk your bronze theory: idra is a pro player right? does it look like he has fun when he gets rushed early game? by all his rage I'm going to go ahead and say no but he's not bronze right? just because it's in the game and/or adapted to (which idra chooses not to) doesn't make it anymore fun. I hear you on the IdrA issue- he doesn't have a very pro mindset, just pro mechanics :D I was arguing that dealing with the opposing team's CC is one of the things that increased skillcap. On a personal standpoint, I didn't intend to disparage you personally ("lol ur bad keke"), just that "I hate getting stunlocked" is more traditionally a lower-level player's complaint. While WoW arena was far from perfect- mostly because it wasn't balanced around 3v3 after BC/WotLK- it is a solid starting point for what an MMO eSport should be. | ||
|
Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
Heals and CC's were a big part of GW PvP. In GW2, from what I've seen, you won't have dedicated healers but everyone is going to have a decent self-heal ability and some of the classess will be able to cast some healing (be it direct or over time) spells on their team(mate) so it's not like healing is completely gone, just the "healer" classes are gone. There's also quite a lot of CC (snares, stuns and other forms of disable) so coordination and tactics are still present. Good to hear. Also, don't forget the cross-class ability combos. This mechanic leads to a huge new area of pvp design in both large engagements and small engagements on a node. I'm very nervous to see how the "we have no healers" gameplay design works out, but also very hopeful. Either way, I'll probably be hitting GW2 the same way I hit WoW: Cataclysm lol- 5 days paid off of work, 20hour sessions, realm 1st and 2nd achieves, top rankings. At least for a little while :D | ||
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
| ||
|
DiLiGu
United States185 Posts
| ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 22 2012 01:51 Crownlol wrote: I hate to throw the league thing out there, but this is more of a bronze-league-level complaint. I don't profess to be the best SC2 player in the universe, but I don't call the game stupid when I get proxy 2rax'd. If you don't enjoy being chain CC'd, don't stand in the open or coordinate your interrupts/dispells/trinket with the rest of your team. If a team lets my Spriest triplefear their team, then let myself and my druid hardcast, they deserve to eat fear/poly/RoF/DF/Clone while one of them blows up. Good teams don't. I'm trying to discuss this from a 2k+ rating perspective, however. The point made about healing is a very strong one. With less healing power, you require less CC in order to land a kill. In a game without CC or healing, you're going to have VERY short engagements- much like a MOBA. Teamfights in MOBAs last a few seconds. This engagement timer can be changed by the ratio of dps to healthpools, but the engagements will be less dynamic with less healing and CC. It is certainly an interesting concept, but doesn't this feel a little too overly offensive? If everyone is running around and spamcasting damage abilities with less CC and healing? Doesn't this turn into a DPS race? Sorry for my lack of GW experience- if any high rated GW'ers care to enlighten me, I'd be happy to listen. As it is, I can't wait to jump in anyway- WoW was a PvE game with a great PvP scene, I can't wait to play an MMO that was based around PvP from the beginning. I can give some insight too I think... In GW2, or at least from what I've seen + what I know about GW1 you have a lot of damage mitigation even without heals. Things like "block next attack", "reflect next projectile", "daze opponent causing their spells to take longer to cooldown" all mix up how damage is dealt. On top of that you have the dodging and other factors that allow for damage to be avoided. Then even again on top of that you have all sorts of different status conditions (deals more damage to burning targets, deals additional damage for each condition on target, etc.) that can reward coordination over a DPS race. Now for how healer-less PvP works. Well AoC has a very similar setup to how GW2 looks. Basically you could be a healer which meant you offered sustainment. You'd protect against occasional or unfocused damage, but wouldn't be able to provide dedicated healing to keep someone alive if they were targeted in a dedicated strike (of note, healers in AoC did pretty decent damage and I mean a strike that's not mitigated by CCs and other support). So the dynamic it created was that you still had to protect healers because without them you'd be at a disadvantage and would far apart to the more minor damage that would become a credible threat without supporting heals. Yet the healers weren't a cornerstone. Locking down or targeting a healer wouldn't be a key to victory and the melee/mage roles had their own importance that made them worth targeting as much as the 'healers'. GW2 is likely to be the same way. You'll probably have people providing support/sustainability to your team which if they die exposes a vulnerability to the rest of the team, but they aren't a piece of the puzzle that will keep an entire team alive indefinitely if not dealt with. | ||
|
Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
I can give some insight too I think... In GW2, or at least from what I've seen + what I know about GW1 you have a lot of damage mitigation even without heals. Things like "block next attack", "reflect next projectile", "daze opponent causing their spells to take longer to cooldown" all mix up how damage is dealt. On top of that you have the dodging and other factors that allow for damage to be avoided. Then even again on top of that you have all sorts of different status conditions (deals more damage to burning targets, deals additional damage for each condition on target, etc.) that can reward coordination over a DPS race. Now for how healer-less PvP works. Well AoC has a very similar setup to how GW2 looks. Basically you could be a healer which meant you offered sustainment. You'd protect against occasional or unfocused damage, but wouldn't be able to provide dedicated healing to keep someone alive if they were targeted in a dedicated strike (of note, healers in AoC did pretty decent damage and I mean a strike that's not mitigated by CCs and other support). So the dynamic it created was that you still had to protect healers because without them you'd be at a disadvantage and would far apart to the more minor damage that would become a credible threat without supporting heals. Yet the healers weren't a cornerstone. Locking down or targeting a healer wouldn't be a key to victory and the melee/mage roles had their own importance that made them worth targeting as much as the 'healers'. GW2 is likely to be the same way. You'll probably have people providing support/sustainability to your team which if they die exposes a vulnerability to the rest of the team, but they aren't a piece of the puzzle that will keep an entire team alive indefinitely if not dealt with. Hey, thanks for this. Healers playing a more offensive/CC/support/sustain role instead of lifebots is a fun concept, and makes healing in PvP much more interesting. To that end, consider the support role in LoL. Most supporters in LoL can burst heal for about 1/4 of someone's HP, maybe twice or three times per teamfight. That isn't much at all. But they provide valuable buffs, debuffs, disables, stuns etc. That is actually a more enjoyable healing model than just keeping people alive indefinitely. Healbotting a random scrub who doesn't put out enough dps to get kills is REALLY frustrating for a skilled healer who is PUGing. I'd have no problem playing a support role without much direct healing as long as there was cool, active mitigation (as you described above). That's actually kind of awesome. I can imagine playing support and throwing around spell reflects and shit on my teammates right as the opposing team tries to burst them. Cool. | ||
|
ydeer1993
United Kingdom569 Posts
| ||
|
IRL_Sinister
Ireland621 Posts
| ||
|
optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:19 ydeer1993 wrote: sorry prob been said a million times before is there an "estimated release date" other than just 2012 depends on the betas, if they go well, itll release sooner. seems like most people are leaning towards a late Q2 or early Q3 release. but again, all depends on how sucessful the betas are. | ||
|
Tsuke
United States52 Posts
| ||
|
Aurra
United States469 Posts
| ||
|
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 22 2012 10:35 Aurra wrote: This game looks approximately a bajillion times better when it's being played by halfway decent players. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4 I want to thank you for this video. This video single handedly made me know I am buying this game 100% day one. That just looked awesome, especially being able to jump out of the way of attacks instead of blindly seeing a "dodge" button :D. It also showed what I am going to be playing a human warrior which is all I want to watch :D So thanks again that video made me realize this games going to be awesome  | ||
|
CuteZergling
641 Posts
| ||
|
Tsuke
United States52 Posts
PCgamer says signups will be active for the next 48 hours, not sure where their source is. Im getting error on page tho  . Will edit if I can get it working or find a source.edit: k its working signed up, one of those system scan signup thingamabobers. | ||
|
Noocta
France12578 Posts
| ||
| ||
