On January 10 2011 03:53 Souma wrote:
As hobbled as Antonio Gates gets, is there really any argument against him being THE BEST TE in the NFL at the moment?

Only if you're a troll

turamn

United States1374 Posts

January 09 2011 18:55 GMT

#3945

I'd pick Vernon Davis over Gates right now. Younger, can play any situation. Creates the same match up problems. Plays more than 4 games a season.

To be fair, If you're disregarding the injury situation, it's a very tough decision, but the fact of the matter is, Davis has better production in a system that doesn't pass as much as the Chargers. The talent surrounding him is also very mediocre when compared to Gates. If he ever plays with a quarterback that isn't absolute garbage, look out.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

January 09 2011 18:59 GMT

#3946

On January 10 2011 03:44 turamn wrote:
I'd be willing to bet my job that Clark and Gates have more snaps flanked out wide than at TE in the last 3 seasons. Vernon Davis is a monster, and that's why it's "possibly". Gonzalez is way past his prime, but still very good. I'm not convinced on Keller as a blocker, but he's got the size to be very good. He's obviously a very solid receiver.

Hmm ok then I guess that just makes them more versatile. Not purely better.

As for Keller I'm not 100% sold on him since I still can't tell if he's really good or if it's the hype machine in New York over blowing everything the Jets do. Having to hear Mark Sanchez is a top QB really kills me.

turamn

United States1374 Posts

January 09 2011 19:02 GMT

#3947

Yes, and that's really my point. I don't know that the Hybird WR/TE can be considered "complete tight ends". When you look at the TE position, you're looking for a guy who can block first and make the safe completions down the middle.

It's entirely possible that Gates/Davis/Clark are the new " complete " tight ends. With the new, more offensive centric NFL, there could be a paradigm shift in the way the position is played and evaluated, where blocking is less valuable and ability to play out wide is more valuable.

Souma

2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts

January 09 2011 19:03 GMT

#3948

On January 10 2011 03:55 turamn wrote:
I'd pick Vernon Davis over Gates right now. Younger, can play any situation. Creates the same match up problems. Plays more than 4 games a season.

To be fair, If you're disregarding the injury situation, it's a very tough decision, but the fact of the matter is, Davis has better production in a system that doesn't pass as much as the Chargers. The talent surrounding him is also very mediocre when compared to Gates. If he ever plays with a quarterback that isn't absolute garbage, look out.

It's only because the Chargers know how to utilize Gates better. You can't pin that against him at all. They use him in that way because they know he can handle it and he never disappoints (till he gets injured). Vernon Davis is a victim of a bad team, yes, but until he produces like Gates you simply can't say he's better.

And saying Antonio Gates doesn't block is like saying Philip Rivers doesn't throw.

turamn

United States1374 Posts

January 09 2011 19:04 GMT

#3949

I didn't say he was better. I said I'd prefer to have him on my team over Gates.

I see your argument about with the bad team issue, and I can agree with that. It's a shame that we may never actually know Davis's true potential, as he may be doomed to the shit hole that is Candlestick Park for the rest of time.

Ferrose

United States11378 Posts

January 09 2011 19:05 GMT

#3950

McCluster got JACKED UP

Ferrose

United States11378 Posts

January 09 2011 19:20 GMT

#3951

Touchdown. 10-7. Flacco has 196 yards already >.>

GoShox

United States1843 Posts

January 09 2011 19:25 GMT

#3952

Two blown chances by the Chiefs (Charles's fumble and the false start on 3rd & 3) and still only down by 3, just have to play well and who knows what will happen.

SweeTLemonS[TPR]

11739 Posts

January 09 2011 20:02 GMT

#3953

On January 10 2011 04:04 turamn wrote:
I didn't say he was better. I said I'd prefer to have him on my team over Gates.

I see your argument about with the bad team issue, and I can agree with that. It's a shame that we may never actually know Davis's true potential, as he may be doomed to the shit hole that is Candlestick Park for the rest of time.

I think the Harbaugh era will be good to the Niners.

I think Souma is only considering the statistical part of the TE position. There's that other part of their position that doesn't make the stat sheet, and it's what Gates lacks in, blocking ability. He's not a great blocker, that's why Manamaleuna played for them in goal line situations when they ran.

Heath Miller, as much as I dislike him, is a very good all-around TE. He can run routes and catch--though not as well as Gates can--and he can stay at home and block a guy when needed. VD can do that as well, and his receiving skills are probably close to Gates, though we may not find out for another season. And if Lewis can repeat his performance this year, he's easily in this conversation as well.

Guys like Clark are not complete TE's in the slightest.