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On November 17 2010 08:14 Snipinpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 16:36 GTR wrote:
It's ridiculous how he hasn't thrown an interception at all. I expected him to fuck up sooner rather than later but he hasn't fucked up once in the games he has played all 80 minutes through. The ints are definitely coming. Vick's play has been very good, but it's not like it's completely mistake free. I can't point out when, but I'm sure there's been dropped interceptions. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that Eagle's offensive is really, really explosive right now. I'm not sure how you would stop it, but I think probably bringing up pressure up the middle is the best bet. Try to force Vick into throwing the ball early and maybe forcing mistakes, but that remains to be seen. Still, this is pretty crazy how good he's gotten.
That's the problem with mobile QB's. Middle pressure doesn't effect them in the same way it effects pocket passers. That's WHY he's so dangerous. Middle pressure on Vick means he's moving, possibly running. In the past you'd just contain the edges and force him to pass, but he's throwing so well this year, teams can't do that to him.
I think I'd still attempt that, though, since many of the biggest plays are coming from broken plays. Even so, DJack, and Maclin are so dangerous in space, if you don't have great containment, in addition to middle pressure, eventually those two will get open and torch your team. Plus Celek is very good, too. The team is suddenly loaded with weapons, it seems.
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No to mention that in Atlanta his best receiver was Alge Crumpler. He never really had anyone to throw it to.
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On November 17 2010 08:27 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 08:14 Snipinpanda wrote:On November 16 2010 16:36 GTR wrote:
It's ridiculous how he hasn't thrown an interception at all. I expected him to fuck up sooner rather than later but he hasn't fucked up once in the games he has played all 80 minutes through. The ints are definitely coming. Vick's play has been very good, but it's not like it's completely mistake free. I can't point out when, but I'm sure there's been dropped interceptions. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that Eagle's offensive is really, really explosive right now. I'm not sure how you would stop it, but I think probably bringing up pressure up the middle is the best bet. Try to force Vick into throwing the ball early and maybe forcing mistakes, but that remains to be seen. Still, this is pretty crazy how good he's gotten. That's the problem with mobile QB's. Middle pressure doesn't effect them in the same way it effects pocket passers. That's WHY he's so dangerous. Middle pressure on Vick means he's moving, possibly running. In the past you'd just contain the edges and force him to pass, but he's throwing so well this year, teams can't do that to him. I think I'd still attempt that, though, since many of the biggest plays are coming from broken plays. Even so, DJack, and Maclin are so dangerous in space, if you don't have great containment, in addition to middle pressure, eventually those two will get open and torch your team. Plus Celek is very good, too. The team is suddenly loaded with weapons, it seems.
Hmmm, yeah I dunno. I feel like dropping 7-8 back just won't work with Vick on the field cause even if you cover everyone, DeSean is gonna stretch the field so much it's gonna be really hard when he starts running.
I don't think he's faced any really strong pass rushes aside from maybe Green Bay earlier this year, who didn't prepare any sort of game plan for him, and naturally he'd just run all over them. Maybe exotic looks and blitzes from places he doesn't expect? Dunno, it's pretty dang hard with the way he's playing right now. I don't ever remember this sort of accuracy ever from him.
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He's absolutely never had it before. It's the reason so many of us didn't believe in him at the beginning of the season. I don't know how long this level of play will last for him, but for right now, he's playing incredibly, and I can't take that away from him. This is exactly what coaches all over the NFL dreamed of when he came into the league. This sort of play is the reason that so many mobile busts were taken. Like the guy that played for Dallas, Aaron something? I don't remember, but he sucked.
This is incredible what we're seeing out of him right now. I guarantee you that DC's all across the league are asking this same question "How do you beat this guy right now?"
I think that's the best idea, if you have the personnel, though. Contain the edges, and push up the middle. You're going to lose sometimes, but if you don't contain, it becomes too hard to stop him. I still think I would try to force him to pass almost exclusively on me. And I think the Bears have a good shot at doing this, considering the speed on their team. He's played incredibly from all over the field, but I'd much rather try to make him one dimensional than allow him to run and pass on me. At least then you have a chance.
The problem with Chicago is lack of control over the middle. I guess you could spy with Urlacher, or leave him more shallow than usual, but then you're giving up a huge hole at the ~15 yard range. Peppers and Izzy should keep the edges pretty well, though both like to chase at times, and that won't work vs Vick... Maybe you spy with Peppers, he's quick enough to maybe cut his run off, or redirect it for long enough to get someone else down... but then that's exactly how he's wrecked so many teams this year. I'd almost certainly try to DE contain, and bring blitzes from various areas. 2 LB blitz up the middle, NB blitzes, etc. That is how he used to get played, and despite throwing MUCH better, I think it'd still be effective. You'd have to mask them really well though. If he reads them pre-snap, then you'd have to audible to a different coverage, imo... Maybe the guy that gets picked as a blitzer drops into coverage... say the NB gets spotted, you audible to an MLB blitz, because the hot route should come just over where the NB's zone would be....
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I think that mobile QBs, if they don't work as mobile QBs in the NFL, should be used elsewhere. Look at Antwan Randle-El (sp) at Pittsburgh.
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Poor Brent Celek is the only person who isn't lightning fast on the Eagles and he gets instantly SMASHED literally every time he touches the ball.
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On November 17 2010 08:49 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
He's absolutely never had it before. It's the reason so many of us didn't believe in him at the beginning of the season. I don't know how long this level of play will last for him, but for right now, he's playing incredibly, and I can't take that away from him. This is exactly what coaches all over the NFL dreamed of when he came into the league. This sort of play is the reason that so many mobile busts were taken. Like the guy that played for Dallas, Aaron something? I don't remember, but he sucked.
This is incredible what we're seeing out of him right now. I guarantee you that DC's all across the league are asking this same question "How do you beat this guy right now?"
I think that's the best idea, if you have the personnel, though. Contain the edges, and push up the middle. You're going to lose sometimes, but if you don't contain, it becomes too hard to stop him. I still think I would try to force him to pass almost exclusively on me. And I think the Bears have a good shot at doing this, considering the speed on their team. He's played incredibly from all over the field, but I'd much rather try to make him one dimensional than allow him to run and pass on me. At least then you have a chance.
The problem with Chicago is lack of control over the middle. I guess you could spy with Urlacher, or leave him more shallow than usual, but then you're giving up a huge hole at the ~15 yard range. Peppers and Izzy should keep the edges pretty well, though both like to chase at times, and that won't work vs Vick... Maybe you spy with Peppers, he's quick enough to maybe cut his run off, or redirect it for long enough to get someone else down... but then that's exactly how he's wrecked so many teams this year. I'd almost certainly try to DE contain, and bring blitzes from various areas. 2 LB blitz up the middle, NB blitzes, etc. That is how he used to get played, and despite throwing MUCH better, I think it'd still be effective. You'd have to mask them really well though. If he reads them pre-snap, then you'd have to audible to a different coverage, imo... Maybe the guy that gets picked as a blitzer drops into coverage... say the NB gets spotted, you audible to an MLB blitz, because the hot route should come just over where the NB's zone would be....
Sadly giving up that hole hasn't stopped Chicago before. That being said, I think spying Urlacher with the Dline playing zone control is probably the best bet. If he gets around them, hope the OLBs can get to him. Contain his running and force him to be only a passing threat and then just play solid coverage. It isn't easy to do, but it is probably Chicago's best bet.
And I agree that Chicago matches up better than most because they have so much speed in their front 7. But Fewell is a pretty smart guy up there in New York. Maybe he has thought of something we haven't.
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Hard to contain vick when he's a better athlete than the guys trying to contain him.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
There's one way to stop Vick, and that would be having a good enough secondary that can shut down DeSean and Maclin long enough for the front seven to get to Vick. Sure, they have Celek, but it's not like he's nearly as explosive. The only secondary that I think could stop DeSean and Maclin are the Jets' though, and maybe the Packers. I'm not too familiar with the secondaries nowadays, but Panthers seem to have an extremely good one as well (but it doesn't matter since they have 0 offense).
Another way to blow up the Eagles? Have your offense play even better. Good luck with that though.
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As impressive as his game was, I think the most impressive thing was actually his post-game interview. He's different than he was when he was in Atlanta.
When watching him in the game, he seemed far more relaxed than he used to be. He was looking downfield, even when he was right at the line of scrimage during a scramble. That is fucking dangerous.
His arm strength and speed is absolutely incredible. If he doesn't get hurt, I'd expect absolutely amazing things from him. Not only that, but teams prepare for facing a right-handed quarterback more often than a leftie, so facing Vick is a little different and can cause some issues.
But not just him - it's the entire offense. And it showed in the game. Even Vick said that his offensive line was blocking for him better than ever. We know how good his recievers are. And the Eagles still have a pretty awesome running game.
If their special teams can do a decent job, and the defense can get Vick and the offense the ball often, they look like they could handle the rest. I can see great things coming out of Philly this year.
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On November 17 2010 10:41 Souma wrote:
There's one way to stop Vick, and that would be having a good enough secondary that can shut down DeSean and Maclin long enough for the front seven to get to Vick. Sure, they have Celek, but it's not like he's nearly as explosive. The only secondary that I think could stop DeSean and Maclin are the Jets' though, and maybe the Packers. I'm not too familiar with the secondaries nowadays, but Panthers seem to have an extremely good one as well (but it doesn't matter since they have 0 offense).
Another way to blow up the Eagles? Have your offense play even better. Good luck with that though.
Kind of, but you don't want to get him with too much pressure, because of his escape-ability. If your defenders are slightly out of position, or miss him on the tackle, he could run for thirty yards, no problem.
Like someone else said about him though, he's actually looking down field for a pass until the LOS. So, if a defender comes down to attack him, he'll toss it over them. That's not something he did very often in Atlanta. This is the Madden NFL Michael Vick that everyone used. And back then there were one or two teams that could handle Vick? You know how? Spy him with a MLB, contain with the DE's, and have a fast-as-fuck team. I realize this isn't a video game, but the strategies employed in Madden are not to dissimilar from real strategies (if you're good). If people here think I know anything about football, most of what I've learned has come from that game, but I digress.
Coverage breaks down eventually, no matter what. I think the best thing is to try and force him into mistakes. Zone blitzes, CB blitzes, exotic four man rushes... I'm not completely sold on his ability as a QB yet--I haven't seen enough of it, and neither has anyone else to say that this guy has suddenly become legit--so I would do everything in my power to force him to be a standard QB. I'd try to take everything that makes him Michael Vick away from him.
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On November 17 2010 11:49 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 10:41 Souma wrote:
There's one way to stop Vick, and that would be having a good enough secondary that can shut down DeSean and Maclin long enough for the front seven to get to Vick. Sure, they have Celek, but it's not like he's nearly as explosive. The only secondary that I think could stop DeSean and Maclin are the Jets' though, and maybe the Packers. I'm not too familiar with the secondaries nowadays, but Panthers seem to have an extremely good one as well (but it doesn't matter since they have 0 offense).
Another way to blow up the Eagles? Have your offense play even better. Good luck with that though. Kind of, but you don't want to get him with too much pressure, because of his escape-ability. If your defenders are slightly out of position, or miss him on the tackle, he could run for thirty yards, no problem. Like someone else said about him though, he's actually looking down field for a pass until the LOS. So, if a defender comes down to attack him, he'll toss it over them. That's not something he did very often in Atlanta. This is the Madden NFL Michael Vick that everyone used. And back then there were one or two teams that could handle Vick? You know how? Spy him with a MLB, contain with the DE's, and have a fast-as-fuck team. I realize this isn't a video game, but the strategies employed in Madden are not to dissimilar from real strategies (if you're good). If people here think I know anything about football, most of what I've learned has come from that game, but I digress. Coverage breaks down eventually, no matter what. I think the best thing is to try and force him into mistakes. Zone blitzes, CB blitzes, exotic four man rushes... I'm not completely sold on his ability as a QB yet--I haven't seen enough of it, and neither has anyone else to say that this guy has suddenly become legit--so I would do everything in my power to force him to be a standard QB. I'd try to take everything that makes him Michael Vick away from him.
Talking about Madden - me and some friends did a fantasy draft one time. Most of my first picks went to my 5 O-line, 2 good recievers, 1 good tight end, 1 good RB/SB, one good player to play as a RB/FB and 1 player to play TE/SB, and I took Vince Young for my QB with a much later pick, because he is similar to Vick in playstyle and I missed out on drafting Vick (I didn't have an early pick in the first round and a friend in an earlier spot took him). I used the Colt's playbook (I happen to really, really like their playbook, even though that is a little unconventional) I ended up winning every single game, even though my defense was crap (I basically went with a 34 defense since I had access to some decent LBs with my picks, but no good DTs, and I ether went cover 4 with or without a QB spy, or I went for a 4 DB deep all LB blitz every time), because I had an offense that was fucking amazing, could control the tempo of the game, and be able to do anything I needed them to do, and I could score at the last second in each half, winning the game by as little as 1 score, but knowing that was all I needed. I had it down to a fucking art. I don't think I even faced a 4th down (realistically, that doesn't happen in real life, but everyone knows what Madden is like).....
I look at the Eagles, and I see that same type of team, except they actually have a pretty good defense and special teams as well. If they keep it rolling, they look like they could be unstoppable.
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Ohh man, I could talk about my Madden glory days forever. I had so much fun with '09. Texans were the best team to use, imo. It's a shame their real team can't be as good as the Madden team.
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It's looking more and more like the NFL is going to have an 18 game season with two bye weeks. God, I hope that that doesn't happen. And if it does, they better not have any stupid shit like the Pats playing a late afternoon game against the Colts Sunday, then playing at 12:30 on Thanksgiving. Good scheduling, NFL. You really care about those players, don't you?
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Thursday games fuck everything up for rest for the one week. The only fair ways of doing Thursday games are to make sure both teams play at the same time, on the same day the week prior, or give them a bye week before the Thursday game.
I'm not sure how to feel about an 18 game season. I think they'll need to expand the active roster. I'd love to see more games, but I don't want more NFL seasons like this one, where there's a bunch of mediocre football being played. The funny thing about this season is that it's an uncapped year, and there's more parity than there has been during all the capped years. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if this is all part of the players' master plan to get paid loads of money. "We don't need a cap! There's more parity than ever before, and there's no cap!" Then multiple guys on the same team get $100 mil, five year deals.
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The players association said that if they're gonna have 18 games, they want the rosters expanded to 57 slots.
In my mind, two more games is just going to mean two more weeks for concussions and shit. Also, two more weeks of teams going into Colts mode and playing the bench players. And two more weeks of the Lions making me cry myself to sleep.
Also, did you guys see TO liken Andy Reid to the Pillsbury Dough Boy? lmao
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On November 18 2010 08:22 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
Thursday games fuck everything up for rest for the one week. The only fair ways of doing Thursday games are to make sure both teams play at the same time, on the same day the week prior, or give them a bye week before the Thursday game.
I'm not sure how to feel about an 18 game season. I think they'll need to expand the active roster. I'd love to see more games, but I don't want more NFL seasons like this one, where there's a bunch of mediocre football being played. The funny thing about this season is that it's an uncapped year, and there's more parity than there has been during all the capped years. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if this is all part of the players' master plan to get paid loads of money. "We don't need a cap! There's more parity than ever before, and there's no cap!" Then multiple guys on the same team get $100 mil, five year deals.
Thursday games are just terrible. Neither team is very well prepared. Also, the teams tend to be more banged up than usual because they haven't had a full week to recover from the previous game. I really think that teams should only play Thursday games the week after a bye.
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Too bad it's a really boring matchup tomorrow. Although i guess it will be interesting to see how Thigpen does. I wonder if they will bring back some more of the wildcat.
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On November 18 2010 13:00 DannyJ wrote:
Too bad it's a really boring matchup tomorrow. Although i guess it will be interesting to see how Thigpen does. I wonder if they will bring back some more of the wildcat.
I hope they run the ball a lot more, since I'm playing Ronnie Brown vs Chicago over Bush vs Pittsburgh. I'm pretty excited for the game, myself. I think it takes a Chicago fan to really enjoy this match up, but many Chicago fans are still bitter about the '85 game, and the subsequent choke in the playoffs that made revenge impossible.
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On November 19 2010 01:16 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 13:00 DannyJ wrote:
Too bad it's a really boring matchup tomorrow. Although i guess it will be interesting to see how Thigpen does. I wonder if they will bring back some more of the wildcat. I hope they run the ball a lot more, since I'm playing Ronnie Brown vs Chicago over Bush vs Pittsburgh. I'm pretty excited for the game, myself. I think it takes a Chicago fan to really enjoy this match up, but many Chicago fans are still bitter about the '85 game, and the subsequent choke in the playoffs that made revenge impossible.
I don't know if that is even true. The Dolphins are in shambles after the Tennessee game. This just feels like picking on the retarded kid. Either you beat them, but they weren't really in a position to be competitive, or you lose and you just lost to a team full of holes. Not really the best outcome either way. That being said, I will be glued to my chair probably yelling at the TV when the game is on either way.
Ronnie Brown vs. the Bears? That takes some pretty serious guts considering what they have been doing to running games so far this season. I guess Bush has a pretty bad matchup too though. Just bad luck that your backs face the #1 and #2 rushing defenses in the league the same week.
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EPT
