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You know what the best part is m4inbrain? Even gold consumables can be bought with credits since the last patch. No sense arguing though because people don't seem to know the difference between pay to win and just having to work harder for stuff.
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On May 13 2013 21:51 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 21:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:19 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 21:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:46 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:26 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:09 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 19:59 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 19:35 manloveman wrote:[quote] Didnt you just do the exact same thing? Hypocrite much? Here you go http://www.noobmeter.com/player/eu/froxbox. Doesnt change anything about the argument. He is baddie who blames the team rather than looking at why he is bad. Its ok to be bad, just don't blame it on everyone else. I actually did not. Do you see the nametag above my post? Feel free to check it. Voila, there's your comparsion. I'm not flaming people and hide behide a different nick. Also i did not tell you to "grow the fuck up", bad boy, i told you that you're acting childish. I assume you're grown up.
[quote]
Looks like you dont know what pay 2 win means. Setting up a system where clear advantages for the average player can be bought for real money is pay 2 win. If the credit income is low enough on non-prem accounts for them to ever consistently be able to use gold ammo, which a prem account can, then it is pay to win.
Gold consumables, just straight up pay to win.
Xp conversion to avoid playing stuck tanks is arguably pay to win.
They can use premium ammo if they want to. Premium ammo WAS pay to win, and they changed it. Gold consumables, well, they are pay to win, but the advantage is so small that you will never be able to win a match just due to the fact that you have gold consumables on bord. If you actually think so, think again. XP Conversion pay to win? So it's an advantage for me over you if i can jump horrid tincans like the M3 Lee whereas you have to grind through it? Try to get the difference between "advantage" and "convinient". It's more comfortable to jump the M3 Lee, You have to grind it, cry me a river if you want, but thats not "arguably pay to win", its just you being pissed off that i dont have to if i dont want to. I still dont win a match because of that though. About premium ammo: you can use certain kinds of tanks (KV-1 comes to mind) who print money even without premiumaccount. Just to sustain gold-ammo-usage on other, bigger tanks. Someone who buys goldammo with money doesnt. That's the difference. You have to invest way more time for the same advantages (except minor stuff like consumables) - but you can have them if you want to. If youre a cheapskate or a bum, well, too bad. Feel free to be jelly of people that dont have to invest weeks to grind up on credits, still no pay to win. And please, don't try to sell me now that the consumables are important or a huge advantage, I played way too much with them (and in other times, without them, topic clanwars), not buying it. So telling someone to grow up is a flame, but telling someone they are childish is not? Doesn't make much sense. About gold ammo. You still don't get it. When you grind credits on the kv-1, you do not print credits if you use gold ammo. Therefore you cannot use gold ammo all the time, since the time you grind credits you cannot use gold ammo. Aka I have clear advantage over a f2p player. And yes, being able to skip junk-mobiles like the m3 is pay 2 win. Since it is shit. But that is not the major point of free xp. It is being able to skip shitty guns and engines at higher tiers. I'm not selling you anything about consumables. You already said it yourself. They are p2w. You don't need to have gold ammo on the KV-1. That's the whole point which you're not able to see seemingly. You're not playing the KV-1 for fun, you're playing it to sustain other tanks. I thought that is clear, if you want to MAKE money, you don't spend it. That's the difference between premium and nonpremium. I dont have to grind to sustain my playstyle. Nonpremiumusers do. You have to WORK for the same advantages other players get when they invest money, but you STILL get them. Other games don't have that option, check Star Trek Online as a prime example for that. Also, having a gun early on a tank due to free xp just means i don't have to grind it. I still don't have an advantage over you, since you can get the gun anyway. You have an E-75, just like me. Do i have an advantage now, because i played premium and unlocked everything with free XP? You drive the same tank as i do. No advantage. The fact that you consider jumping shit-tanks like the M3 pay 2 win shows me that you have no idea what pay to win actually is. I get to the Sherman/T1 faster than you, but you still get it eventually. You confuse convinience with pay to win, so there's no point in discussing anything with you. Guess by your definition even League of Legends is pay to win, since it's easier to unlock champs with real money than IP (you have to grind it, olol, fuckin pay to win systems!). And yeah. World of Tanks is totally a shitty pay to win game, because, you know, premium supplies. Which come to play in clanwars, meaning that you will almost never face them in a real game. Discussion over for me, you're just butthurt and try to blame others for that. Well I can understand. All your arguments pretty much makes no sense. First its completely not pay to win. Then it is pay to win, but only so little that is doesn't matter. Then it is pay to win, but only until you reach endgame. Then your grind tank doesn't count as pay to win, because it is a grind tank. Dude make up you mind. While you grind you are at a disadvantage. This is pay 2 win. Why would I even be butthurt. I have both premium account and tanks. I play the game a lot and have fun. If I was butthurt where do I try to blame others? This sort of accusation seems sort of childish to me, don't you agree? What can make me butthurt is shit players ping spamming, yelling "lemming train" and "noob team" and being obnoxious when they themselves clearly a no better. I said the gold supplies would count as pay to win, but they don't make you win, so it's a minor advantage. That's it. Compare that with what you said, and you see the difference. Also: while you're grinding, you're not at a disadvantage. You have to spend more time or spend money, it's a decision. Having to grind is not a disadvantage, it's part of the game if you don't want to pay. Gladly, i can tell that i'm a pretty decent player, so i guess it's okay to yell "idiots" from time to time. Especially if i see 5 tanks rushing again the magic forest on Murovanka from the south position. (edit: and yeah, that gets me every single time) Edit: but tell me, do you consider League of Legends to be pay 2 win? Yes, you seem like a good player from your stats, so feel free to yell idiots when people are idiots. I do not have much experience with lol, but from what I have played, I do not consider it p2w. The reason here is, that you are never at a disadvantage while grinding for the next tier or whatever it is called in that game. If you grind in your kv-1 and meet another kv-1 with gold ammo (he can afford it because he is on prem) you at a disadvantage compared to him, Now if you could turn of stats while you grind for example, then I would agree with you. Fact is, I boost my stats, because I can rack up tons of credits fast in my lowe and play pure gold m4 (statpadding op bs). I can make my stats very very good (which I am not) simply by the fact that I have spend real money on the game. I dont have to drive a sup-par t9 with a bad gun, which will hurt my stats, because I just free-xp it. A non-spender could never hope to match that, even though he is better than me. Hm, we might have found the reason why we will not get a conclusion. I give a shit about stats (actually, the only premium ammo i have is on my T92 for CWs, and only three shells), having bad/good stats is not a dis/advantage to me. To me counts: if i'm in my E-75, does the other E-75 have an advantage over me thanks to something he bought where i did not. And in this case, free-xp guns/engines etc don't count, since i will get them eventually as well. I'm talking maxed out E-75 against maxed out E-75, the only thing he could have over me is a 10% better crew, and i'd say that "most of the times" (at least more often than not) i can compensate that with better knowledge of his tank/aiming etc. So if you take your "standards" as definition, the game might be pay to win, in a part of the game where it actually should not matter (that's why noobmeter has the WN7 rating btw, if you don't know what it is, check it in the forums). I for example am incredibly bad with low tier TDs, yet i like to play them, resulting in only a "good" total result. But in the "endgame", where it counts (to me), it is "great". What i'm trying to say is, by your definition the game would be pay to win in the "midgame", yes. Guess it's a matter of perspective then, because i completely don't care what happens to me on T5-T6. I get instablown up so often in my TDs, doesn't matter if it's a sherman or a Hummel, i'll just shrug it off and take the next tank. You know the funniest thing? I didn't even know Noobmeter before you posted it. That's how little i care about my stats, as long as i "win" against people when i'm in higher tier tanks. Or better, not lose because they paid for something (for example, a rammer only via gold would be a huge advantage) that i did not. Edit: to make it even clearer: "stats" don't make you win clanwars/matches. That's my definition. I don't care to much either, except when I sperging retards blaming everything but themselves and yells and screams and whine on forums about how they will quit because of "baddies". And we agree btw. On clan wars or in games that actually matter, there is no clear pay2win advantage. Even in "mid game" or grind games, skill > gold every day. I just wish they would take the stupid gold ammo completely out of the game already. I neither yelled nor screamed. And I won't quit because of it, at least read properly. It was one reason I did it before...and that was actually when my win rate was at 53%. Also, judging me without seeing me play/looking at the tanks I play is pretty retarded. If I wanted to boost my stats, I could do so easily.
Some might say. But you blame the team, when your efficiency stat's says you are not a big contributor. Seems stupid to blame the team, when you yourself is not a factor in pulling the team towards victory. It is not really the teams fault alone then.
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On May 13 2013 22:04 Aesdea wrote:
You know what the best part is m4inbrain? Even gold consumables can be bought with credits since the last patch. No sense arguing though because people don't seem to know the difference between pay to win and just having to work harder for stuff.
Can they? I didn't check since i don't use them at all, but, let's just settle this discussion, it goes nowhere. As i said, to me and my definition, the game is not pay to win (as other games are, where you for example have to buy potions for real money Oo, or star trek online, stuff like that). If you take his definition of pay to win, you could consider it as such, so it's a bit moot to discuss it.
That you can buy consumables with credits now is a good thing though. Not that i'd use them, but i could if i wanted to. Always good.
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On May 13 2013 22:07 manloveman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 21:51 Lucumo wrote:On May 13 2013 21:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:19 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 21:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:46 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:26 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:09 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 19:59 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
I actually did not. Do you see the nametag above my post? Feel free to check it. Voila, there's your comparsion. I'm not flaming people and hide behide a different nick. Also i did not tell you to "grow the fuck up", bad boy, i told you that you're acting childish. I assume you're grown up.
[quote]
They can use premium ammo if they want to. Premium ammo WAS pay to win, and they changed it. Gold consumables, well, they are pay to win, but the advantage is so small that you will never be able to win a match just due to the fact that you have gold consumables on bord. If you actually think so, think again.
XP Conversion pay to win? So it's an advantage for me over you if i can jump horrid tincans like the M3 Lee whereas you have to grind through it?
Try to get the difference between "advantage" and "convinient". It's more comfortable to jump the M3 Lee, You have to grind it, cry me a river if you want, but thats not "arguably pay to win", its just you being pissed off that i dont have to if i dont want to. I still dont win a match because of that though.
About premium ammo: you can use certain kinds of tanks (KV-1 comes to mind) who print money even without premiumaccount. Just to sustain gold-ammo-usage on other, bigger tanks. Someone who buys goldammo with money doesnt. That's the difference. You have to invest way more time for the same advantages (except minor stuff like consumables) - but you can have them if you want to. If youre a cheapskate or a bum, well, too bad. Feel free to be jelly of people that dont have to invest weeks to grind up on credits, still no pay to win.
And please, don't try to sell me now that the consumables are important or a huge advantage, I played way too much with them (and in other times, without them, topic clanwars), not buying it. So telling someone to grow up is a flame, but telling someone they are childish is not? Doesn't make much sense. About gold ammo. You still don't get it. When you grind credits on the kv-1, you do not print credits if you use gold ammo. Therefore you cannot use gold ammo all the time, since the time you grind credits you cannot use gold ammo. Aka I have clear advantage over a f2p player. And yes, being able to skip junk-mobiles like the m3 is pay 2 win. Since it is shit. But that is not the major point of free xp. It is being able to skip shitty guns and engines at higher tiers. I'm not selling you anything about consumables. You already said it yourself. They are p2w. You don't need to have gold ammo on the KV-1. That's the whole point which you're not able to see seemingly. You're not playing the KV-1 for fun, you're playing it to sustain other tanks. I thought that is clear, if you want to MAKE money, you don't spend it. That's the difference between premium and nonpremium. I dont have to grind to sustain my playstyle. Nonpremiumusers do. You have to WORK for the same advantages other players get when they invest money, but you STILL get them. Other games don't have that option, check Star Trek Online as a prime example for that. Also, having a gun early on a tank due to free xp just means i don't have to grind it. I still don't have an advantage over you, since you can get the gun anyway. You have an E-75, just like me. Do i have an advantage now, because i played premium and unlocked everything with free XP? You drive the same tank as i do. No advantage. The fact that you consider jumping shit-tanks like the M3 pay 2 win shows me that you have no idea what pay to win actually is. I get to the Sherman/T1 faster than you, but you still get it eventually. You confuse convinience with pay to win, so there's no point in discussing anything with you. Guess by your definition even League of Legends is pay to win, since it's easier to unlock champs with real money than IP (you have to grind it, olol, fuckin pay to win systems!). And yeah. World of Tanks is totally a shitty pay to win game, because, you know, premium supplies. Which come to play in clanwars, meaning that you will almost never face them in a real game. Discussion over for me, you're just butthurt and try to blame others for that. Well I can understand. All your arguments pretty much makes no sense. First its completely not pay to win. Then it is pay to win, but only so little that is doesn't matter. Then it is pay to win, but only until you reach endgame. Then your grind tank doesn't count as pay to win, because it is a grind tank. Dude make up you mind. While you grind you are at a disadvantage. This is pay 2 win. Why would I even be butthurt. I have both premium account and tanks. I play the game a lot and have fun. If I was butthurt where do I try to blame others? This sort of accusation seems sort of childish to me, don't you agree? What can make me butthurt is shit players ping spamming, yelling "lemming train" and "noob team" and being obnoxious when they themselves clearly a no better. I said the gold supplies would count as pay to win, but they don't make you win, so it's a minor advantage. That's it. Compare that with what you said, and you see the difference. Also: while you're grinding, you're not at a disadvantage. You have to spend more time or spend money, it's a decision. Having to grind is not a disadvantage, it's part of the game if you don't want to pay. Gladly, i can tell that i'm a pretty decent player, so i guess it's okay to yell "idiots" from time to time. Especially if i see 5 tanks rushing again the magic forest on Murovanka from the south position. (edit: and yeah, that gets me every single time) Edit: but tell me, do you consider League of Legends to be pay 2 win? Yes, you seem like a good player from your stats, so feel free to yell idiots when people are idiots. I do not have much experience with lol, but from what I have played, I do not consider it p2w. The reason here is, that you are never at a disadvantage while grinding for the next tier or whatever it is called in that game. If you grind in your kv-1 and meet another kv-1 with gold ammo (he can afford it because he is on prem) you at a disadvantage compared to him, Now if you could turn of stats while you grind for example, then I would agree with you. Fact is, I boost my stats, because I can rack up tons of credits fast in my lowe and play pure gold m4 (statpadding op bs). I can make my stats very very good (which I am not) simply by the fact that I have spend real money on the game. I dont have to drive a sup-par t9 with a bad gun, which will hurt my stats, because I just free-xp it. A non-spender could never hope to match that, even though he is better than me. Hm, we might have found the reason why we will not get a conclusion. I give a shit about stats (actually, the only premium ammo i have is on my T92 for CWs, and only three shells), having bad/good stats is not a dis/advantage to me. To me counts: if i'm in my E-75, does the other E-75 have an advantage over me thanks to something he bought where i did not. And in this case, free-xp guns/engines etc don't count, since i will get them eventually as well. I'm talking maxed out E-75 against maxed out E-75, the only thing he could have over me is a 10% better crew, and i'd say that "most of the times" (at least more often than not) i can compensate that with better knowledge of his tank/aiming etc. So if you take your "standards" as definition, the game might be pay to win, in a part of the game where it actually should not matter (that's why noobmeter has the WN7 rating btw, if you don't know what it is, check it in the forums). I for example am incredibly bad with low tier TDs, yet i like to play them, resulting in only a "good" total result. But in the "endgame", where it counts (to me), it is "great". What i'm trying to say is, by your definition the game would be pay to win in the "midgame", yes. Guess it's a matter of perspective then, because i completely don't care what happens to me on T5-T6. I get instablown up so often in my TDs, doesn't matter if it's a sherman or a Hummel, i'll just shrug it off and take the next tank. You know the funniest thing? I didn't even know Noobmeter before you posted it. That's how little i care about my stats, as long as i "win" against people when i'm in higher tier tanks. Or better, not lose because they paid for something (for example, a rammer only via gold would be a huge advantage) that i did not. Edit: to make it even clearer: "stats" don't make you win clanwars/matches. That's my definition. I don't care to much either, except when I sperging retards blaming everything but themselves and yells and screams and whine on forums about how they will quit because of "baddies". And we agree btw. On clan wars or in games that actually matter, there is no clear pay2win advantage. Even in "mid game" or grind games, skill > gold every day. I just wish they would take the stupid gold ammo completely out of the game already. I neither yelled nor screamed. And I won't quit because of it, at least read properly. It was one reason I did it before...and that was actually when my win rate was at 53%. Also, judging me without seeing me play/looking at the tanks I play is pretty retarded. If I wanted to boost my stats, I could do so easily. Some might say. But you blame the team, when your efficiency stat's says you are not a big contributor. Seems stupid to blame the team, when you yourself is not a factor in pulling the team towards victory. It is not really the teams fault alone then.
But you alone can only do so much. It's not a shooter where you can 1v3 and still win. Unless you are using a heavy tank, it's pretty much impossible. Things bothering me are when people don't move in the beginning, only after 10 seconds or more. That's wasted time to get into a good position. Then scouts not scouting, heavy tanks clumping together in a totally useless position. Arties not doing their job(since I'm playing scouts quite often, I experience it first-hand). Simple maneuvers like attacking one lone tank from two sides. I do certainly lack tank and map knowledge but on the strategy level, I'm fine.
On May 13 2013 22:09 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:04 Aesdea wrote:
You know what the best part is m4inbrain? Even gold consumables can be bought with credits since the last patch. No sense arguing though because people don't seem to know the difference between pay to win and just having to work harder for stuff. Can they? I didn't check since i don't use them at all, but, let's just settle this discussion, it goes nowhere. As i said, to me and my definition, the game is not pay to win (as other games are, where you for example have to buy potions for real money Oo, or star trek online, stuff like that). If you take his definition of pay to win, you could consider it as such, so it's a bit moot to discuss it. That you can buy consumables with credits now is a good thing though. Not that i'd use them, but i could if i wanted to. Always good.
One Jagdpanzer IV premium shell is 4k silver...which is actually ok. Maybe I should buy some too.
/edit: This is what I mean. Team getting completely trashed, can't really do anything.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j2AEWd8.jpg)
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On May 13 2013 22:19 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:51 Lucumo wrote:On May 13 2013 21:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:19 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 21:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:46 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:26 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:09 manloveman wrote:
[quote]
So telling someone to grow up is a flame, but telling someone they are childish is not? Doesn't make much sense.
About gold ammo. You still don't get it. When you grind credits on the kv-1, you do not print credits if you use gold ammo. Therefore you cannot use gold ammo all the time, since the time you grind credits you cannot use gold ammo. Aka I have clear advantage over a f2p player.
And yes, being able to skip junk-mobiles like the m3 is pay 2 win. Since it is shit. But that is not the major point of free xp. It is being able to skip shitty guns and engines at higher tiers.
I'm not selling you anything about consumables. You already said it yourself. They are p2w. You don't need to have gold ammo on the KV-1. That's the whole point which you're not able to see seemingly. You're not playing the KV-1 for fun, you're playing it to sustain other tanks. I thought that is clear, if you want to MAKE money, you don't spend it. That's the difference between premium and nonpremium. I dont have to grind to sustain my playstyle. Nonpremiumusers do. You have to WORK for the same advantages other players get when they invest money, but you STILL get them. Other games don't have that option, check Star Trek Online as a prime example for that. Also, having a gun early on a tank due to free xp just means i don't have to grind it. I still don't have an advantage over you, since you can get the gun anyway. You have an E-75, just like me. Do i have an advantage now, because i played premium and unlocked everything with free XP? You drive the same tank as i do. No advantage. The fact that you consider jumping shit-tanks like the M3 pay 2 win shows me that you have no idea what pay to win actually is. I get to the Sherman/T1 faster than you, but you still get it eventually. You confuse convinience with pay to win, so there's no point in discussing anything with you. Guess by your definition even League of Legends is pay to win, since it's easier to unlock champs with real money than IP (you have to grind it, olol, fuckin pay to win systems!). And yeah. World of Tanks is totally a shitty pay to win game, because, you know, premium supplies. Which come to play in clanwars, meaning that you will almost never face them in a real game. Discussion over for me, you're just butthurt and try to blame others for that. Well I can understand. All your arguments pretty much makes no sense. First its completely not pay to win. Then it is pay to win, but only so little that is doesn't matter. Then it is pay to win, but only until you reach endgame. Then your grind tank doesn't count as pay to win, because it is a grind tank. Dude make up you mind. While you grind you are at a disadvantage. This is pay 2 win. Why would I even be butthurt. I have both premium account and tanks. I play the game a lot and have fun. If I was butthurt where do I try to blame others? This sort of accusation seems sort of childish to me, don't you agree? What can make me butthurt is shit players ping spamming, yelling "lemming train" and "noob team" and being obnoxious when they themselves clearly a no better. I said the gold supplies would count as pay to win, but they don't make you win, so it's a minor advantage. That's it. Compare that with what you said, and you see the difference. Also: while you're grinding, you're not at a disadvantage. You have to spend more time or spend money, it's a decision. Having to grind is not a disadvantage, it's part of the game if you don't want to pay. Gladly, i can tell that i'm a pretty decent player, so i guess it's okay to yell "idiots" from time to time. Especially if i see 5 tanks rushing again the magic forest on Murovanka from the south position. (edit: and yeah, that gets me every single time) Edit: but tell me, do you consider League of Legends to be pay 2 win? Yes, you seem like a good player from your stats, so feel free to yell idiots when people are idiots. I do not have much experience with lol, but from what I have played, I do not consider it p2w. The reason here is, that you are never at a disadvantage while grinding for the next tier or whatever it is called in that game. If you grind in your kv-1 and meet another kv-1 with gold ammo (he can afford it because he is on prem) you at a disadvantage compared to him, Now if you could turn of stats while you grind for example, then I would agree with you. Fact is, I boost my stats, because I can rack up tons of credits fast in my lowe and play pure gold m4 (statpadding op bs). I can make my stats very very good (which I am not) simply by the fact that I have spend real money on the game. I dont have to drive a sup-par t9 with a bad gun, which will hurt my stats, because I just free-xp it. A non-spender could never hope to match that, even though he is better than me. Hm, we might have found the reason why we will not get a conclusion. I give a shit about stats (actually, the only premium ammo i have is on my T92 for CWs, and only three shells), having bad/good stats is not a dis/advantage to me. To me counts: if i'm in my E-75, does the other E-75 have an advantage over me thanks to something he bought where i did not. And in this case, free-xp guns/engines etc don't count, since i will get them eventually as well. I'm talking maxed out E-75 against maxed out E-75, the only thing he could have over me is a 10% better crew, and i'd say that "most of the times" (at least more often than not) i can compensate that with better knowledge of his tank/aiming etc. So if you take your "standards" as definition, the game might be pay to win, in a part of the game where it actually should not matter (that's why noobmeter has the WN7 rating btw, if you don't know what it is, check it in the forums). I for example am incredibly bad with low tier TDs, yet i like to play them, resulting in only a "good" total result. But in the "endgame", where it counts (to me), it is "great". What i'm trying to say is, by your definition the game would be pay to win in the "midgame", yes. Guess it's a matter of perspective then, because i completely don't care what happens to me on T5-T6. I get instablown up so often in my TDs, doesn't matter if it's a sherman or a Hummel, i'll just shrug it off and take the next tank. You know the funniest thing? I didn't even know Noobmeter before you posted it. That's how little i care about my stats, as long as i "win" against people when i'm in higher tier tanks. Or better, not lose because they paid for something (for example, a rammer only via gold would be a huge advantage) that i did not. Edit: to make it even clearer: "stats" don't make you win clanwars/matches. That's my definition. I don't care to much either, except when I sperging retards blaming everything but themselves and yells and screams and whine on forums about how they will quit because of "baddies". And we agree btw. On clan wars or in games that actually matter, there is no clear pay2win advantage. Even in "mid game" or grind games, skill > gold every day. I just wish they would take the stupid gold ammo completely out of the game already. I neither yelled nor screamed. And I won't quit because of it, at least read properly. It was one reason I did it before...and that was actually when my win rate was at 53%. Also, judging me without seeing me play/looking at the tanks I play is pretty retarded. If I wanted to boost my stats, I could do so easily. Some might say. But you blame the team, when your efficiency stat's says you are not a big contributor. Seems stupid to blame the team, when you yourself is not a factor in pulling the team towards victory. It is not really the teams fault alone then. But you alone can only do so much. It's not a shooter where you can 1v3 and still win. Unless you are using a heavy tank, it's pretty much impossible. Things bothering me are when people don't move in the beginning, only after 10 seconds or more. That's wasted time to get into a good position. Then scouts not scouting, heavy tanks clumping together in a totally useless position. Arties not doing their job(since I'm playing scouts quite often, I experience it first-hand). Simple maneuvers like attacking one lone tank from two sides. I do certainly lack tank and map knowledge but on the strategy level, I'm fine.
Most of the time you cant do anything about it alone. But all those factors are on both teams. There is a lot of luck involved in getting on teams, but if you do your part every game, decent damage, spotting, capping etc, your win rate will slowly go up. A solid game from one person, will be the factor in some of those close games (not the stomp ones, where your only t10 drives straight into a lake).
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On May 13 2013 22:32 manloveman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:19 Lucumo wrote:On May 13 2013 22:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:51 Lucumo wrote:On May 13 2013 21:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:19 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 21:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:46 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:26 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
You don't need to have gold ammo on the KV-1. That's the whole point which you're not able to see seemingly. You're not playing the KV-1 for fun, you're playing it to sustain other tanks. I thought that is clear, if you want to MAKE money, you don't spend it. That's the difference between premium and nonpremium. I dont have to grind to sustain my playstyle. Nonpremiumusers do. You have to WORK for the same advantages other players get when they invest money, but you STILL get them. Other games don't have that option, check Star Trek Online as a prime example for that. Also, having a gun early on a tank due to free xp just means i don't have to grind it. I still don't have an advantage over you, since you can get the gun anyway. You have an E-75, just like me. Do i have an advantage now, because i played premium and unlocked everything with free XP? You drive the same tank as i do. No advantage.
The fact that you consider jumping shit-tanks like the M3 pay 2 win shows me that you have no idea what pay to win actually is. I get to the Sherman/T1 faster than you, but you still get it eventually. You confuse convinience with pay to win, so there's no point in discussing anything with you.
Guess by your definition even League of Legends is pay to win, since it's easier to unlock champs with real money than IP (you have to grind it, olol, fuckin pay to win systems!).
And yeah. World of Tanks is totally a shitty pay to win game, because, you know, premium supplies. Which come to play in clanwars, meaning that you will almost never face them in a real game.
Discussion over for me, you're just butthurt and try to blame others for that. Well I can understand. All your arguments pretty much makes no sense. First its completely not pay to win. Then it is pay to win, but only so little that is doesn't matter. Then it is pay to win, but only until you reach endgame. Then your grind tank doesn't count as pay to win, because it is a grind tank. Dude make up you mind. While you grind you are at a disadvantage. This is pay 2 win. Why would I even be butthurt. I have both premium account and tanks. I play the game a lot and have fun. If I was butthurt where do I try to blame others? This sort of accusation seems sort of childish to me, don't you agree? What can make me butthurt is shit players ping spamming, yelling "lemming train" and "noob team" and being obnoxious when they themselves clearly a no better. I said the gold supplies would count as pay to win, but they don't make you win, so it's a minor advantage. That's it. Compare that with what you said, and you see the difference. Also: while you're grinding, you're not at a disadvantage. You have to spend more time or spend money, it's a decision. Having to grind is not a disadvantage, it's part of the game if you don't want to pay. Gladly, i can tell that i'm a pretty decent player, so i guess it's okay to yell "idiots" from time to time. Especially if i see 5 tanks rushing again the magic forest on Murovanka from the south position. (edit: and yeah, that gets me every single time) Edit: but tell me, do you consider League of Legends to be pay 2 win? Yes, you seem like a good player from your stats, so feel free to yell idiots when people are idiots. I do not have much experience with lol, but from what I have played, I do not consider it p2w. The reason here is, that you are never at a disadvantage while grinding for the next tier or whatever it is called in that game. If you grind in your kv-1 and meet another kv-1 with gold ammo (he can afford it because he is on prem) you at a disadvantage compared to him, Now if you could turn of stats while you grind for example, then I would agree with you. Fact is, I boost my stats, because I can rack up tons of credits fast in my lowe and play pure gold m4 (statpadding op bs). I can make my stats very very good (which I am not) simply by the fact that I have spend real money on the game. I dont have to drive a sup-par t9 with a bad gun, which will hurt my stats, because I just free-xp it. A non-spender could never hope to match that, even though he is better than me. Hm, we might have found the reason why we will not get a conclusion. I give a shit about stats (actually, the only premium ammo i have is on my T92 for CWs, and only three shells), having bad/good stats is not a dis/advantage to me. To me counts: if i'm in my E-75, does the other E-75 have an advantage over me thanks to something he bought where i did not. And in this case, free-xp guns/engines etc don't count, since i will get them eventually as well. I'm talking maxed out E-75 against maxed out E-75, the only thing he could have over me is a 10% better crew, and i'd say that "most of the times" (at least more often than not) i can compensate that with better knowledge of his tank/aiming etc. So if you take your "standards" as definition, the game might be pay to win, in a part of the game where it actually should not matter (that's why noobmeter has the WN7 rating btw, if you don't know what it is, check it in the forums). I for example am incredibly bad with low tier TDs, yet i like to play them, resulting in only a "good" total result. But in the "endgame", where it counts (to me), it is "great". What i'm trying to say is, by your definition the game would be pay to win in the "midgame", yes. Guess it's a matter of perspective then, because i completely don't care what happens to me on T5-T6. I get instablown up so often in my TDs, doesn't matter if it's a sherman or a Hummel, i'll just shrug it off and take the next tank. You know the funniest thing? I didn't even know Noobmeter before you posted it. That's how little i care about my stats, as long as i "win" against people when i'm in higher tier tanks. Or better, not lose because they paid for something (for example, a rammer only via gold would be a huge advantage) that i did not. Edit: to make it even clearer: "stats" don't make you win clanwars/matches. That's my definition. I don't care to much either, except when I sperging retards blaming everything but themselves and yells and screams and whine on forums about how they will quit because of "baddies". And we agree btw. On clan wars or in games that actually matter, there is no clear pay2win advantage. Even in "mid game" or grind games, skill > gold every day. I just wish they would take the stupid gold ammo completely out of the game already. I neither yelled nor screamed. And I won't quit because of it, at least read properly. It was one reason I did it before...and that was actually when my win rate was at 53%. Also, judging me without seeing me play/looking at the tanks I play is pretty retarded. If I wanted to boost my stats, I could do so easily. Some might say. But you blame the team, when your efficiency stat's says you are not a big contributor. Seems stupid to blame the team, when you yourself is not a factor in pulling the team towards victory. It is not really the teams fault alone then. But you alone can only do so much. It's not a shooter where you can 1v3 and still win. Unless you are using a heavy tank, it's pretty much impossible. Things bothering me are when people don't move in the beginning, only after 10 seconds or more. That's wasted time to get into a good position. Then scouts not scouting, heavy tanks clumping together in a totally useless position. Arties not doing their job(since I'm playing scouts quite often, I experience it first-hand). Simple maneuvers like attacking one lone tank from two sides. I do certainly lack tank and map knowledge but on the strategy level, I'm fine. Most of the time you cant do anything about it alone. But all those factors are on both teams. There is a lot of luck involved in getting on teams, but if you do your part every game, decent damage, spotting, capping etc, your win rate will slowly go up. A solid game from one person, will be the factor in some of those close games (not the stomp ones, where your only t10 drives straight into a lake).
My games are mostly stomps, that's the problem. That just happened again. Heavy Tanks refuse to go into a proper position(no arties), I have a pretty good one in my TD but are in the front. 5 tanks from the enemy just come and destroy me while the heavies don't even provide support. And on the lower part of the map, we lost 3 tanks without even getting one kill.
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On May 13 2013 23:00 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:32 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 22:19 Lucumo wrote:On May 13 2013 22:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:51 Lucumo wrote:On May 13 2013 21:41 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 21:19 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 21:07 manloveman wrote:On May 13 2013 20:46 m4inbrain wrote:On May 13 2013 20:41 manloveman wrote:
[quote]
Well I can understand. All your arguments pretty much makes no sense. First its completely not pay to win. Then it is pay to win, but only so little that is doesn't matter. Then it is pay to win, but only until you reach endgame. Then your grind tank doesn't count as pay to win, because it is a grind tank. Dude make up you mind.
While you grind you are at a disadvantage. This is pay 2 win.
Why would I even be butthurt. I have both premium account and tanks. I play the game a lot and have fun. If I was butthurt where do I try to blame others? This sort of accusation seems sort of childish to me, don't you agree?
What can make me butthurt is shit players ping spamming, yelling "lemming train" and "noob team" and being obnoxious when they themselves clearly a no better. I said the gold supplies would count as pay to win, but they don't make you win, so it's a minor advantage. That's it. Compare that with what you said, and you see the difference. Also: while you're grinding, you're not at a disadvantage. You have to spend more time or spend money, it's a decision. Having to grind is not a disadvantage, it's part of the game if you don't want to pay. Gladly, i can tell that i'm a pretty decent player, so i guess it's okay to yell "idiots" from time to time. Especially if i see 5 tanks rushing again the magic forest on Murovanka from the south position. (edit: and yeah, that gets me every single time) Edit: but tell me, do you consider League of Legends to be pay 2 win? Yes, you seem like a good player from your stats, so feel free to yell idiots when people are idiots. I do not have much experience with lol, but from what I have played, I do not consider it p2w. The reason here is, that you are never at a disadvantage while grinding for the next tier or whatever it is called in that game. If you grind in your kv-1 and meet another kv-1 with gold ammo (he can afford it because he is on prem) you at a disadvantage compared to him, Now if you could turn of stats while you grind for example, then I would agree with you. Fact is, I boost my stats, because I can rack up tons of credits fast in my lowe and play pure gold m4 (statpadding op bs). I can make my stats very very good (which I am not) simply by the fact that I have spend real money on the game. I dont have to drive a sup-par t9 with a bad gun, which will hurt my stats, because I just free-xp it. A non-spender could never hope to match that, even though he is better than me. Hm, we might have found the reason why we will not get a conclusion. I give a shit about stats (actually, the only premium ammo i have is on my T92 for CWs, and only three shells), having bad/good stats is not a dis/advantage to me. To me counts: if i'm in my E-75, does the other E-75 have an advantage over me thanks to something he bought where i did not. And in this case, free-xp guns/engines etc don't count, since i will get them eventually as well. I'm talking maxed out E-75 against maxed out E-75, the only thing he could have over me is a 10% better crew, and i'd say that "most of the times" (at least more often than not) i can compensate that with better knowledge of his tank/aiming etc. So if you take your "standards" as definition, the game might be pay to win, in a part of the game where it actually should not matter (that's why noobmeter has the WN7 rating btw, if you don't know what it is, check it in the forums). I for example am incredibly bad with low tier TDs, yet i like to play them, resulting in only a "good" total result. But in the "endgame", where it counts (to me), it is "great". What i'm trying to say is, by your definition the game would be pay to win in the "midgame", yes. Guess it's a matter of perspective then, because i completely don't care what happens to me on T5-T6. I get instablown up so often in my TDs, doesn't matter if it's a sherman or a Hummel, i'll just shrug it off and take the next tank. You know the funniest thing? I didn't even know Noobmeter before you posted it. That's how little i care about my stats, as long as i "win" against people when i'm in higher tier tanks. Or better, not lose because they paid for something (for example, a rammer only via gold would be a huge advantage) that i did not. Edit: to make it even clearer: "stats" don't make you win clanwars/matches. That's my definition. I don't care to much either, except when I sperging retards blaming everything but themselves and yells and screams and whine on forums about how they will quit because of "baddies". And we agree btw. On clan wars or in games that actually matter, there is no clear pay2win advantage. Even in "mid game" or grind games, skill > gold every day. I just wish they would take the stupid gold ammo completely out of the game already. I neither yelled nor screamed. And I won't quit because of it, at least read properly. It was one reason I did it before...and that was actually when my win rate was at 53%. Also, judging me without seeing me play/looking at the tanks I play is pretty retarded. If I wanted to boost my stats, I could do so easily. Some might say. But you blame the team, when your efficiency stat's says you are not a big contributor. Seems stupid to blame the team, when you yourself is not a factor in pulling the team towards victory. It is not really the teams fault alone then. But you alone can only do so much. It's not a shooter where you can 1v3 and still win. Unless you are using a heavy tank, it's pretty much impossible. Things bothering me are when people don't move in the beginning, only after 10 seconds or more. That's wasted time to get into a good position. Then scouts not scouting, heavy tanks clumping together in a totally useless position. Arties not doing their job(since I'm playing scouts quite often, I experience it first-hand). Simple maneuvers like attacking one lone tank from two sides. I do certainly lack tank and map knowledge but on the strategy level, I'm fine. Most of the time you cant do anything about it alone. But all those factors are on both teams. There is a lot of luck involved in getting on teams, but if you do your part every game, decent damage, spotting, capping etc, your win rate will slowly go up. A solid game from one person, will be the factor in some of those close games (not the stomp ones, where your only t10 drives straight into a lake). My games are mostly stomps, that's the problem. That just happened again. Heavy Tanks refuse to go into a proper position(no arties), I have a pretty good one in my TD but are in the front. 5 tanks from the enemy just come and destroy me while the heavies don't even provide support. And on the lower part of the map, we lost 3 tanks without even getting one kill.
Yes this is very common. But think of it like this.
Lets say all things equal, you play 20 games.
10 is stomps where your team win, 10 is stomps where the enemy stomps.
Lets assume that one game on each side is actually close. You, doing solid work sway both those games to victory. That will give you 55% over the 20 games, which is pretty solid.
Yet, even though you have been good'ish tier player (with 55%) over the last 20 games, you are still getting a your face stomped in because your team is completely retarded 9 out 20 games.
This fact can be very frustrating, but that is just how WoT is. Once In a while you have influence over the result, most of the time however... Not so much, unless you are god tier pub stomper (or have and m4).
Still, even in games where there is 0 chance of you winning, you should aim to do decent damage, do good spotting or whatever you class needs to be doing.
Edit: About gold ammo. Have a little on every tank. You don't need use very often, but there are situations once in a while, where a single gold shot or 2 can sway the whole battle.
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On May 13 2013 23:14 manloveman wrote:
Edit: About gold ammo. Have a little on every tank. You don't need use very often, but there are situations once in a while, where a single gold shot or 2 can sway the whole battle.
I've been thinking more about this lately. Now that I'm settling in to T4-5 (still not sure what tank(s) I want to play the most though), I'm realizing how many clutch scenarios pop up where theres only a handful of tanks remaining on either side and the difference between winning and losing is one solid (or lucky) shot. Switching up to gold ammo for those tense scenarios, even if it's only 2-3 shells, could be insanely useful without becoming too expensive to maintain (assuming I'd be paying in credits, not gold).
That all being said I still need to work through my identity crisis and figure out what tank/role/country/everything I want to use the most right now. And after reading so much active discussion I'm itching badly to get home and play now, and the work day has only just begun! 
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Yeah, thinking about that. I already wondered why the same tank was doing more damage to me than I to him. Too bad it's not gold only anymore(used more often now -.-).
Another good example of some bad players:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dJxN3AA.jpg)
Twiddling their thumbs south instead of helping gain control of mid(or rather, holding it).
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On May 13 2013 23:35 Lucumo wrote:Yeah, thinking about that. I already wondered why the same tank was doing more damage to me than I to him. Too bad it's not gold only anymore(used more often now -.-). Another good example of some bad players: + Show Spoiler +Twiddling their thumbs south instead of helping gain control of mid(or rather, holding it).
I have been getting a lot of games this past weekend where there were a large number of lights/mediums fiddling around within 1-2 sectors of the base for the entire game, even after one team (ours or theres) was starting to lose tanks like mad. It's really strange. Didn't happen this badly until the past few days. Your screenshot is a pretty fine example.
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Hm, maybe it's because of the XPx5 event :S
Also, we just lost a domination game where no tank of either side died...
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On May 13 2013 23:35 Lucumo wrote:Yeah, thinking about that. I already wondered why the same tank was doing more damage to me than I to him. Too bad it's not gold only anymore(used more often now -.-). Another good example of some bad players: Twiddling their thumbs south instead of helping gain control of mid(or rather, holding it).
I this is nothing. I have lost a game, only last week, which infuriated me to no end.
We have 4 tanks capping, myself included, and the other team have 3. We are ahead in the cap race and everything seems fine, or that's what I think at least. An arty get spotted driving behind a house, so we cannot shoot him from the cap zone.
2 med's, who are inside the enemy cap zone with me, promptly drives out of the cap zone to kill the arty. Needless to say they de-cap us by leaving the zone, and we loose the cap race and the game. Fuckers didn't even get the arty kill either.
Type59's camping on the little hill in mines. Scout tanks hiding behind an arty in our starting area. T10's drowning in water. WoT can be one rage inducing game at times.
The shit I hate the most, is getting in -2 tier game. T7 in a T9 game. Then you are really at the mercy of that one e75, who decides that he can contribute the most to the game by being afk for the first 2 minutes, then drive solo through the middle, only getting a single shot of before he is killed.
Some games just cannot be won.
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On May 13 2013 23:51 manloveman wrote:
I this is nothing. I have lost a game, only last week, which infuriated me to no end.
We have 4 tanks capping, myself included, and the other team have 3. We are ahead in the cap race and everything seems fine, or that's what I think at least. An arty get spotted driving behind a house, so we cannot shoot him from the cap zone.
2 med's, who are inside the enemy cap zone with me, promptly drives out of the cap zone to kill the arty. Needless to say they de-cap us by leaving the zone, and we loose the cap race and the game. Fuckers didn't even get the arty kill either.
Type59's camping on the little hill in mines. Scout tanks hiding behind an arty in our starting area. T10's drowning in water. WoT can be one rage inducing game at times.
The shit I hate the most, is getting in -2 tier game. T7 in a T9 game. Then you are really at the mercy of that one e75, who decides that he can contribute the most to the game by being afk for the first 2 minutes, then drive solo through the middle, only getting a single shot of before he is killed.
Some games just cannot be won.
Lmao that's so ridiculous. What was going through their head...
Lucumo you're probably right, I have a hunch that the 5x weekend did make some games quite a bit different...
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Man, I'm so damn poor, I can't even buy myself a new tank =/
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lol some people actually think wot is pay2win ? this is pretty funny.
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WoT is pay to have fun 
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By the way, is reporting someone even useful? Some retard was damaging me until I was low, so that the enemy could kill me easily. So, do they actually check the reports or something?
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On May 14 2013 04:04 Lucumo wrote:
Man, I'm so damn poor, I can't even buy myself a new tank =/
yeah ,and some people cant even buy food.
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On May 14 2013 06:13 dafnay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 04:04 Lucumo wrote:
Man, I'm so damn poor, I can't even buy myself a new tank =/ yeah ,and some people cant even buy food.
We got 5 of each because of the event though.
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On May 14 2013 06:10 Lucumo wrote:
By the way, is reporting someone even useful? Some retard was damaging me until I was low, so that the enemy could kill me easily. So, do they actually check the reports or something?
Worth a shot?
A couple friends are picking this back up to play with me as well, so I'll be in the 2-5 tiers for a while. Curious on what some of you think some of the best / your favorites are in this range? Have had good fun with the T2 and T3 German TDs. Play arty now and then if I'm bored, trying the SU-26 atm. Other than that I'm pretty much open to suggestions to try out, have decent amount of XP available on a good handful of different tech trees, flexible.
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EPT
