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So I started my turns to find that we are still generally in good shape other than our capital needs more food.
I sent the warrior which had just finished in our town out to fogbust and started on another warrior.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of panthers in the area.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Animals1.jpg)
The southern panther attacked our warrior, the western panther decided it was a bad idea.
A few turns later, our warrior is in danger to another animal.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Animals2.jpg)
4 turns after that, our warrior has finished in the town and is sent out to fogbust. He dodges the panther which had decided not to attack us earlier, only to run into another animal instead.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Animals3.jpg)
He actually manages to win that fight, but then this happens on the next turn from a square I couldn't even see
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Animals4.jpg)
Meanwhile, over in our town, the corn's farm is up and I am desperately trying to secure another source of decent food for our town. I chopped one of the forests next to the lake, putting the chop into our first settler before switching back to another warrior to continue growth.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Chopped.jpg)
Finally, I manage to get our warrior who had been down south up to near Korea so we can scout out Wang's area a bit better. I was hoping to get around his borders and scout behind him, but sadly... Note that the lion is not actually threatening us yet. That screenshot was taken on the last turn. The warrior still has a move.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Animals6.jpg)
And that is where my turns came to an end.
Tech-wise, we have finished The Wheel and Pottery. We are now working on Writing.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/Tech.jpg)
Our capital now has 4 people, a warrior fortified for happiness/defense, and a farm set to finish in 2 or 3 turns on the grassland near the lake. Our capital is working on a work boat to help us scout a little more easily.
I didn't manage to scout much more than what we already knew. The warrior I sent to the west died quickly to the bear + panther, and the warrior to the south was blocked by Louis' borders, so he made the trek back to Wang.
![[image loading]](http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/maidenofmystery/Teamliquid/World.jpg)
For our next steps, I recommend that we finish writing and open borders with Wang relatively quickly. I want to see who (if anyone) is behind him. We can finish our settler once population reaches 5. We also need roads to the copper and the gems in relatively short order. Once we get the road to the gems, we should grow up to happy cap again and start pumping settlers and workers.
Finally, the save: http://www.mediafire.com/?w2gwd0viw6w33nw
Lexpar has been PMed
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On July 24 2010 07:39 igotmyown wrote:
Whipping is mathematically inferior to building workers/settlers straight up, especially without a granary. Whipping with a granary still only generates about 1.5-2 hammers per turn on average.
Example: you grow from size 2 to 3 (12 x 2 = 24 food), taking 5 turns, then start a worker and whip. Those 5 turns of growth, you could generate 7 food+hammers with corn/gems, 7 x 5 = 35 > 30, 10 food+hammers with corn/copper, 10 x 5 = 50 > 30.
As the hammer:food ratio increases, whipping and regrowing gets worse and worse for pure worker/settler production.
If you look up vocum insineratio for whipping, it concludes whipping special tiles and grassland mines is counterproductive, while whipping plains hills is good.
Early copper is far superior to gems for expansion attempts.
A little confusing... for example, where does 12 x 2 come from? In our epic game, growth takes 33 food for 1 -> 2, and 36 for 2 -> 3. I guess the 24 in normal speed = 36 epic, but I still don't understand 12 x 2.
Doesn't change much, but I believe gems + corn = 8 food+hammers, not 7?
Not sure how to calculate this, but don't forget that we can be putting our hammers into something else while growing, then trade some population for an instant worker.
Anyways, without doing the math myself, I suspect working high yield tiles like corn and copper will be more efficient than whipping, but what I would do is allow the city to grow while working our best tiles, perhaps building a granary in the meantime, and then whipping once we get a population point working an inferior tile/being unhappy.
Definitely agree that copper > gems for getting an expansion out fast, but we're in no rush and I think the commerce from the gems would be superior.
@ the guy who just played: In one screenshot I can see you building a settler/worker while working the lake instead of the copper. Definitely not optimal.
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read the article, didn't see anything that said manual building > whipping, but did see him recommend whipping your first worker.
Interesting note, because we are imperialistic we get +50% hammers into settlers, but not +50% food. So a)better to work high hammer than high food tiles when building settlers, and
b)whipping gives hammers and the bonus applies, so at epic speed we get 67.5 (rounding down) hammers/pop when whipping settlers.
*deleted section for incorrectness*
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On July 24 2010 11:35 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 07:39 igotmyown wrote:
Whipping is mathematically inferior to building workers/settlers straight up, especially without a granary. Whipping with a granary still only generates about 1.5-2 hammers per turn on average.
Example: you grow from size 2 to 3 (12 x 2 = 24 food), taking 5 turns, then start a worker and whip. Those 5 turns of growth, you could generate 7 food+hammers with corn/gems, 7 x 5 = 35 > 30, 10 food+hammers with corn/copper, 10 x 5 = 50 > 30.
As the hammer:food ratio increases, whipping and regrowing gets worse and worse for pure worker/settler production.
If you look up vocum insineratio for whipping, it concludes whipping special tiles and grassland mines is counterproductive, while whipping plains hills is good.
Early copper is far superior to gems for expansion attempts.
A little confusing... for example, where does 12 x 2 come from? In our epic game, growth takes 33 food for 1 -> 2, and 36 for 2 -> 3. I guess the 24 in normal speed = 36 epic, but I still don't understand 12 x 2. Doesn't change much, but I believe gems + corn = 8 food+hammers, not 7? Not sure how to calculate this, but don't forget that we can be putting our hammers into something else while growing, then trade some population for an instant worker. Anyways, without doing the math myself, I suspect working high yield tiles like corn and copper will be more efficient than whipping, but what I would do is allow the city to grow while working our best tiles, perhaps building a granary in the meantime, and then whipping once we get a population point working an inferior tile/being unhappy. Definitely agree that copper > gems for getting an expansion out fast, but we're in no rush and I think the commerce from the gems would be superior. @ the guy who just played: In one screenshot I can see you building a settler/worker while working the lake instead of the copper. Definitely not optimal.
Yes. My mistake. I totally forgot to switch over to the copper that turn. However, I only made the settler for a turn to use the chop hammers more productively. So not the end of the world.
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deleted epic post because it was incorrect and will waste people's time
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ohhhh, sadface. Just tested it, and while the overflow LOOKS huge on the turn that you whip, you actually don't get the doubled overflow for whipping your halfprice buildings. The result is that whipping doesn't actually do incredible things for certain buildings - the civ just gets them at half price as intended. siiiiiiigh....
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Got it! Will be taking the turn.
Edit: sorry for the wait taking the turn tonight.
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Although the English people mourned the loss of the great leader Qatol, they found surprising comfort in the hands of his heir Lexpar. This young, somewhat arrogant man, had little experience in leading a nation, yet in his early years of rule he managed to make a series of easy, or lucky, decisions. Unfortunately, history would remember him as a drastically indecisive ruler, preferring safety to risk in most situations.
![[image loading]](http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3685/civ4screenshot0000g.jpg)
Almost immediately Lexpar's ability to lead an army was called into service. A stalwart group of his finest warriors found themselves under attack by a massive pride of "fur"ocious lions. These lions, later found to be bred by the evil tyrant Wang for the express purpose of waging a discreet war against the English empire, more resembled creatures of myth than any true creature of Earth. Their muscles where wound taught over steely bones and their coats splattered with the blood of English farmers. Each had fangs longer than a mans arm, primed to rip through the nearest willing flesh. The battle raged for hours, and many warriors found themselves forgotten in muddy trenches, slowly succumbing to the lion's potent venom. As the last lion retreated up towards the mountains upon it's leathery wings, only one warrior still stood. As a token of appreciation Lexpar promoted the unit, increasing it's general strength by 10%. He then commanded a turn of rest upon the newly reinforced men, before moving them closer to Korean borders.
![[image loading]](http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3413/civ4screenshot0001.jpg)
These early years also served as a time for Lexpar to experiment in the fields of economic growth and infrastructure. He commanded his workers to begin joining the English Empire by great roads, assured that each brick layed upon the ground was a step towards a better tomorrow for the growing Empire. The paths stretched out like a spiders web, and soon the great city of Victoria had immediate access to precious gems, fresh food and sturdy copper. Indeed, Lexpar was shaping up to be a great and powerful leader.
And then, his first (and only) great accomplishment: under his rule the mighty people of the English Empire developed their own system of writing. Though the Emperor himself would never learn this art, his advisors assured him that it was all very important and not to worry about it. Within weeks his fine diplomats had assured open border policies with the French and Korean Empires. At the same time, a first work boat was completed in the city of Victoria. Although it's sails where coarse, it's hull leaked, and it annoyingly veered to the left, the people thought it a grand accomplishment. The ship immediately set sail south along the English borders, intent on discovering new lands past the borders of the French.
![[image loading]](http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6581/civ4screenshot0004c.jpg)
Lexpar's great warriors made quick work of scouting Korean territory. The harsh discovery of the Koreans small spit of land put strong political pressure on the development of a settler to secure a border to the south. Unfortunately, this time proved to be the beginning of the end of Lexpar's great rule. Though the queen would never confirm or deny rumors, tales spread of the great leaders impotency in the marital bed. His greatest apothecaries scoured the lands for herbs that could harden his resolve and steel his will, but none could be found. Quickly the once arrogant and pompous man became a disheveled wreck, refusing to make important decisions for the better of his Empire. He commanded his scouts to the south in order to prod French borders, but upon the completion of his Settler he refused to make a decision. A great man reduced to nothingness, his confidence reduced to shreds. Upon the anniversary of his 14th year in command, he looked in the mirror and found he could not call himself a man. It had been months since he shared a bed with his queen, his self confidence and been shattered by his weakness, and his enemies openly mocked him. He ended his life later that month. In his will, he asked that his great advisor Keilah take up his legacy,
(that last paragraph was about me not wanting to chose where to put a new city. Sorry for ending my turn early! Someone else can pick up the slack -_-)
![[image loading]](http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1070/civ4screenshot0006lz.jpg)
The world as we know it.
[url blocked]
Pm'd Keilah
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kind of sad that people (I'm sure you're not the only one) are unwilling to place a new city in this game because they feel like the more experienced players will complain at them : /
but I enjoyed reading it : )
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Why does the land look so much more pretty on Lexpar's system than anyone else's, including my own? I thought I had the graphics settings turned all the way up. What's your secret Lex?
Place the 2nd city 1 SW of the elephants, it steals land from the capital but it won't ever become an issue. 2S of the elephants could also be good, it loses coastal but it gains spices and maybe dyes? I wasn't too sure when looking at the map.
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oh, i'm next. Downloading the save now. Great writing Lexpar!
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On July 26 2010 10:02 Keilah wrote:
Why does the land look so much more pretty on Lexpar's system than anyone else's, including my own? I thought I had the graphics settings turned all the way up. What's your secret Lex?
Place the 2nd city 1 SW of the elephants, it steals land from the capital but it won't ever become an issue. 2S of the elephants could also be good, it loses coastal but it gains spices and maybe dyes? I wasn't too sure when looking at the map.
It looks like he's using the Blue Marble mod. It modifies the graphics to look less cartoony.
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Lexpar,
whatever, it was a good turn-report at least ^^
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On July 26 2010 10:02 Keilah wrote:
Why does the land look so much more pretty on Lexpar's system than anyone else's, including my own? I thought I had the graphics settings turned all the way up. What's your secret Lex?
Place the 2nd city 1 SW of the elephants, it steals land from the capital but it won't ever become an issue. 2S of the elephants could also be good, it loses coastal but it gains spices and maybe dyes? I wasn't too sure when looking at the map.
No dyes for 2S. One of my screenshots shows that area decently well. Why not aim for a spot which helps block a bit better, has fresh water, or start the GP farm? Your spots don't seem to be as good as the GP farm or have much in the way of blocking power. Personally, I'd start up the GP farm.
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That is a seriously awesome writeup, Lexpar. Especially the bit at the end.
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Ah, the throne. A chance for Keilah to get things done. Well then, let's get to it! First thing's first, tell those uneducated peasant workers to stop making a road and get mining those gems, real snappy-like! Wouldn't want access to copper yet anyways... those complaining army types always expect the best equipment available, and frankly, they don't need it. Don't they know spears are expensive!?!? Clubs will do just fine for now.
Next, it's time to decide on where the settlers will... well, settle. The obvious choice is to settle near the steak and hamburgers, and I think the extra spices in the south more than make up for the loss of being coastal, so I settle to the east of the cows.
![[image loading]](http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8899/screen1plantingacity.png)
For the next several decades, things are simple. The wise men are seeking the secrets of something called 'alfabet' while our productive citizens build a worker, a warrior, a settler, a granary, and another worker. It's time to set about growing and expanding our glorious empire! In the meantime, our borders are approached by strangers in a small ship, hailing from... the north?!!?!? Very interesting... we should build another workboat in a bit, and send it north.
![[image loading]](http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3472/screen2babylon.png)
In short order, our scouting workboat makes contact with Arabia, Inca, Japan, and, just as the glorious but aging ruler known as Keilah is about to kick the bucket, Carthage! This is a great result for having sent out just one workboat. Carthage in particular is excellent, as we see that they are relatively weak but willing to trade to us the one tech we REALLY need and can't get anywhere else... iron working! We gave them writing in exchange for archery, enabling us to give them alphabet for iron working. Overly generous trades on our part, but they greatly boosted our relations and besides, we really wanted iron working ASAP. We also traded writing and fishing to the Babylonians for animal husbandry and mysticism, not a bad trade.
![[image loading]](http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1751/screen6hannibal.png)
Oh yeah, a new city was planted in the middle of the jungle to the southwest. It sucks now, but it'll be great later! We'll need plenty of workers to clear out all the jungles in our grand empire. Screw the environment, we want cottages.
Well, Keilah got some crazy STDs from bangin' all of Lex's unsatisfied womenfolk and died. But hey, these things happen! He had about 700 children, so he's good with it. Anyways, before death, he advised that the next king should be a bright youth by the name of BioChemist, and left recommendations that he 'whip out a granary' (whatever that means!) and work as quickly as possible towards the discovery of a Code of Laws, to ensure another religion for our eventual Cathedral-fueled cultural win. We can't count on having too many religions spread to us from our neighbors, because really, only Korea is very close to us.
The new lands discovered by our hardworking work boat:
![[image loading]](http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4471/screen7theneighbors.png)
And the save:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1HAKB6IA
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Retry with the pics buddy 
Good turn. I was pretty sure if I moved out the settler he would get eaten by cannibalistic barbarians. Luckily you've seemed to have avoided that.
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On July 26 2010 11:07 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 10:02 Keilah wrote:
Why does the land look so much more pretty on Lexpar's system than anyone else's, including my own? I thought I had the graphics settings turned all the way up. What's your secret Lex?
Place the 2nd city 1 SW of the elephants, it steals land from the capital but it won't ever become an issue. 2S of the elephants could also be good, it loses coastal but it gains spices and maybe dyes? I wasn't too sure when looking at the map. No dyes for 2S. One of my screenshots shows that area decently well. Why not aim for a spot which helps block a bit better, has fresh water, or start the GP farm? Your spots don't seem to be as good as the GP farm or have much in the way of blocking power. Personally, I'd start up the GP farm.
Because it's too far away and we didn't have enough workers, a way to pop borders, or iron working yet. Better to start up a nearby city that can be improved, then spread out. We also don't care about fresh water except in our three best cities, and unfortunately there's not much to be found. We'll just have to trade for health resources, which is fine because we're planning to be friendly.
Also I think the spot 2S of the elephants is the only reasonable choice for Korea-blocking, since they aren't going to spread so far as to take our GP farm land just yet. Note: d'oh on missing the horses, but I didn't know they were there until after the city was settled. Oh well.
Note to future leaders: Give in to EVERY demand of every civ, except the ones that cause bad relations with other civs (don't stop trading or declare war just because someone demands it). As long as we aren't killed by a hostile military, nobody is a threat to us because we're going to reach victory hundreds of turns before they come close. So wussified diplomacy is the name of the game. We're going to need more workers than usual (jungles), and less defenders than usual (peacemongering). Remember that we're going to be running pacifism fairly soon. Fogbusting to prevent barbarians >>> having enough units that we completely don't fear barbarians.
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Wow, I was just about to post about little activity in this thread, but what do I know ;o
Great writeup Lexpar! And great writeup Keliah! Truly we have a hero work boat on our hands. Even if it veers to the left.
Lexpar, it's "discreet," not "discrete" - something to point out, those words are pretty frequently confused :X
I didn't understand the placement 1E of cows at first, but I suppose I can agree with the justification. You mentioned that you founded a city in the jungle, but you didn't screen it, so I guess it was just a blocking city?
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EPT
