EPTWhy not take Printing Press; aren't we cottaging up to get the culture victory?
[Civ 4] Game 4 - Team B - Page 7
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Zyphen[p]
United States91 Posts
Why not take Printing Press; aren't we cottaging up to get the culture victory? | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
Not to be a dick, but are you going to read the page I posted or what? It will answer all your questions and make everything clear. | ||
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Zyphen[p]
United States91 Posts
What the hell is "it?" A cottage? | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
If there's some easier way to get it, such as from a friend/rival, then that's obviously a good thing. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
On July 27 2010 17:05 Zyphen[p] wrote: "Not to be a dick," but I did read that page, and I recall that it recommended use of the culture slider over specialists or wonders, which is why I was asking if we were "cottaging up." What the hell is "it?" A cottage? not you zyphen, I meant biochemist. You ninja posted your question while I was replying to him. =] And then you did it again while I was replying to you^^ | ||
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Zyphen[p]
United States91 Posts
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Keilah
731 Posts
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Lunaticman
Sweden1097 Posts
I mean they will steamroll us with their armies unless we can keep them happy, and how do we intend to do that if we don't have any tech to bargain with? | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 27 2010 14:37 Keilah wrote: ugh, it's nice that you got the oracle i suppose, but if any great prophets are generated, it's bad for us overall. If one does pop, i think we should save him for a golden age later on, and make sure that the capital will never give birth to another great person. In case anyone gets the urge, please do NOT get a great scientist for an academy... unless it's to replace a great prophet I suppose. In a culture win, you should be building only the wonders that produce great artists. We also want to save the forests as much as possible for the few wonders we DO want, as well as the big cathedrals. Remember that we want to be working cottages as much as humanly possible, so our main 3 cities won't be generating many hammers. (the GP farm getting food and artists, of course). I posted this link earlier, but if people want to know how to do this, here it is again: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=298093 On July 27 2010 14:39 Keilah wrote: OMG, is that a library building in London? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO that is massive fail. That is a hammer city. It has no need of a library whatsoever. We get libraries in Victoria and York only. Sorry for triple post ^^ Guys, if we're going for culture win, which it looks like we are, PLEASE read the page I linked to. We don't need another disorganized, unfocused fail game like the last one. In the BC the capital will be pumping Settlers and Workers. It will probably build an early library and immediately hire 2 scientists for an Academy. A capital with Bureaucracy, Library and Academy accounts for half of the research your civ has to do all game long. The guide you linked to seems to indicate the exact opposite of what you are saying. Not only does it say we should get Great Scientists, it says we should emphasize them, which makes sense to me if we are trying to win the race to Liberalism (which your guide also says we should be doing). We won't get there first if we don't get any Great Scientists. Well, maybe we will because of the difficulty level, but not on higher ones. So I am a bit confused about your comments now. Please clarify. On July 27 2010 20:12 Lunaticman wrote: I will be very intrested to see how this "GP farm" works. Also we stop researching after music? How will we compete with the other neighbours in coat of arms? I mean they will steamroll us with their armies unless we can keep them happy, and how do we intend to do that if we don't have any tech to bargain with? Generally you race up to to Liberalism at least. A free tech and Free Speech are pretty nice perks for teching a bit more. Free Religion can be a good safety blanket if necessary (but only switch to it as a last resort. Pacifism is way better if you aren't getting religion pressure from multiple civs). Also, it gives you a few nice tech trades if you're lucky. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
On July 27 2010 20:12 Lunaticman wrote: I will be very intrested to see how this "GP farm" works. Also we stop researching after music? How will we compete with the other neighbours in coat of arms? I mean they will steamroll us with their armies unless we can keep them happy, and how do we intend to do that if we don't have any tech to bargain with? Not exactly... The target techs are Drama, Music, Liberalism, Nationalism, and probably Printing Press. Music can be the first or last one to get, but will probably come early in the list since we want the free great artist. The GP farm works like this: Work food resources. Build some farms as well. Grow until we are working all the 4+ food tiles, some 3 food tiles, and we are about to enter unhealth. Then pull as many off of the 3 food tiles as possible, and have them all be artist specialists. In the end it will be only high food tiles, and artists being worked. Oh and, from time to time we will work the hills to build worthwhile buildings such as the national epic. Most of the time we will be working on temples at 2 hammers/turn (because the city will be founded on a plains hill). Nobody is going to steamroll us because everybody is going to be our friend. There comes a point, after we've adopted their religion, given them so many techs, given in to all their demands and played nice for hundreds of years, that they just aren't ever going to start disliking us. We reach that point long before we stop teching. I think you need to look up the definition of 'coat of arms' =] | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
On July 27 2010 21:51 Qatol wrote: The guide you linked to seems to indicate the exact opposite of what you are saying. Please clarify. See the word 'probably'. In our case, we will be getting plenty of research from our secondary cottage city, which also has gems, so we don't really need the academy. It's still not terrible and I wouldn't fuss if anyone did it, except... we're generating great prophet points. We really want the minimum of non-artist great people. So, if we got the scientist INSTEAD of the prophet, it'd be OK. But getting a scientist AS WELL as a prophet would, I think, be a mistake. Even if we get lucky and birth a GS instead of a GP, the GP farm may not be up in time to prevent the oracle from spawning a useless Great Prophet, which would be suboptimal. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 27 2010 22:07 Keilah wrote: See the word 'probably'. In our case, we will be getting plenty of research from our secondary cottage city, which also has gems, so we don't really need the academy. It's still not terrible and I wouldn't fuss if anyone did it, except... we're generating great prophet points. We really want the minimum of non-artist great people. So, if we got the scientist INSTEAD of the prophet, it'd be OK. But getting a scientist AS WELL as a prophet would, I think, be a mistake. Even if we get lucky and birth a GS instead of a GP, the GP farm may not be up in time to prevent the oracle from spawning a useless Great Prophet, which would be suboptimal. But don't we need more than one GS ordinarily to get Liberalism first? Usually you need at least 3 - Academy, Philosophy bulb, and Education bulb. I agree that the GP points are a bit of a hassle. We will just have to minimize the chances of those prophets and hope to not pop too many of them. I guess a holy city wonder isn't the end of the world for when we switch to 100% culture so we don't have to spend as much time accumulating wealth though? | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
We aren't going to need to spend any time at all accumulating wealth. Trading all our happiness resources for gold per turn, and setting our hammer cities to producing wealth, will allow us to run at 100% culture. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 27 2010 23:00 Keilah wrote: Have you seen our land? We are going to beat the next closest AI to liberalism by three techs. We aren't going to need to spend any time at all accumulating wealth. Trading all our happiness resources for gold per turn, and setting our hammer cities to producing wealth, will allow us to run at 100% culture. Only because it is Monarch. I've lost the race to liberalism with better land than this (starting BFC of 3 grassland gems, 4 dyes, and 2 river corns) and a beeline tech on higher difficulties because I got cocky and decided I didn't need to bulb. Good point on the wealth though. I don't know why I didn't think of that. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 28 2010 01:33 Keilah wrote: using 2 great people on tech gets us around 4k beakers, plus a free guaranteed ~4k beaker tech (in our epic game) but costs us 12k culture points in lost great artists, meaning an overall 4k loss. Us being able to manual tech and still win the race to liberalism means an 8k loss. It isn't possible to manual tech and win liberalism at higher difficulty levels. What you are proposing gives people bad habits. Also, bulbing Philosophy gets it faster, which lets you get GP points faster = more Great Artists = more culture. Bulbing up to Liberalism gets you Free Speech/ free tech (Printing Press?) faster, which also mitigates the culture point loss. EDIT: Also, why are you saying 4K for Great Artists? Aren't they worth more than that if you settle them relatively early in the game? | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
On July 28 2010 02:58 Qatol wrote: It isn't possible to manual tech and win liberalism at higher difficulty levels. What you are proposing gives people bad habits. Also, bulbing Philosophy gets it faster, which lets you get GP points faster = more Great Artists = more culture. Bulbing up to Liberalism gets you Free Speech/ free tech (Printing Press?) faster, which also mitigates the culture point loss. EDIT: Also, why are you saying 4K for Great Artists? Aren't they worth more than that if you settle them relatively early in the game? oh yeah, meant to write in 'at least 6k per artist (epic speed)' but didn't phrase it right. It's more if you settle them early of course. The math could be done but I'm almost certain that the few extra turns of pacifism and free speech won't add up to 4k culture, let alone 8k and beyond. And it's possible to manually win the race to liberalism, I've done it up to immortal. To be fair, I DID build an academy. It doesn't matter THAT much if we win the liberalism race or not. In fact, if we were to somehow lose it, that would mean someone was ahead of us in tech and might actually trade us something we want instead of just backfilling for us. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
BTS people get sistine chapel more often +2 culture per specialist in all cities +5 culture from all State Religion buildings | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
On July 28 2010 03:59 igotmyown wrote: You can "accidentally" get legendary culture in 1-2 cities on emperor and below by hogging wonders. The old deity guide advocates academies in your cities if you can spare it, which makes sense since you'll be getting 8 culture per turn from them later on. I thought Academies were a special case that didn't double culture after 1000 years. | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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