Evo was fun. I didn't stay to watch finals because I hate watching people play fighting games, especially if I'm not cheering for anyone.
I caught some of the semifinals and man, it's like these guys have never seen an SF match in their life. If Daigo played and did an uppercut on a jump-in the entire crowd would go nuts. =) I could not get hype at all, hahah. I think there was one match when Tokido played a Ken, Ken could've been chipped to death, but Tokido was in the corner. Tokido did hurricane kick to get out, Ken did a U2 that had no chance of hitting, but the entire crowd was like "WOWTUIOWUOSFOIWAHOHVHASPOFGW.... awwww."
Except for Shizza, nobody I know personally made it to semi-finals, which was disappointing. I think we had one guy that was 1 game away from hitting semis.
Also in a strange twist of fate, I met up with one of my friends from high school who moved out to Vegas to go eat lunch. He saw our other friend's brother passing by. It turns out that our friend's brother was HF Blade and he just finished getting 4th in the MB tournament. I had no idea...
On July 12 2010 15:15 kainzero wrote: Evo was fun. I didn't stay to watch finals because I hate watching people play fighting games, especially if I'm not cheering for anyone.
I caught some of the semifinals and man, it's like these guys have never seen an SF match in their life. If Daigo played and did an uppercut on a jump-in the entire crowd would go nuts. =) I could not get hype at all, hahah. I think there was one match when Tokido played a Ken, Ken could've been chipped to death, but Tokido was in the corner. Tokido did hurricane kick to get out, Ken did a U2 that had no chance of hitting, but the entire crowd was like "WOWTUIOWUOSFOIWAHOHVHASPOFGW.... awwww."
Except for Shizza, nobody I know personally made it to semi-finals, which was disappointing. I think we had one guy that was 1 game away from hitting semis.
Also in a strange twist of fate, I met up with one of my friends from high school who moved out to Vegas to go eat lunch. He saw our other friend's brother passing by. It turns out that our friend's brother was HF Blade and he just finished getting 4th in the MB tournament. I had no idea...
it's evo, a lot is on the line so every little thing is going to get some noise. i watched a lot of the stream and for the most part the crowed acted pretty smart with the cheering. the game is still a bit new and the new ultras have some randomn moments still left in them -- like no one knew why the korean akuma was picking ultra 2 against rufus until it countered the messiah.
anyways, i only get excited over fighting game tournys if an underdog character is doing well (Adon), and if Daigo is in the finals =D
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
let me guess, you've never actually been to a fighting game tournament this isn't esports where we have sponsors (i mean now evo, and like 4 players do), we just show up... enter the tournament... moneymatch people (oh i'm sorry have a "2-man tournament"), take they money, and everyone gets fucking hype. people screaming getting hype for their player from their region, the player from their hometown, the player who plays their character, whatever. it is about pride, and the expectation is that you are intelligent enough to know what is going on, because if you don't the explanation would take longer than the match. you can see what is happening on the screen. djwheat's "professional" commentary is trash because he says what is happening on the screen. "oh look at that 5 hit combo". oh yeah, look at it. we can fucking see it, we don't need you to point it out for us, we are not morons. the streams are first and foremost for us, the fighting game community
in essence, we, as a community, don't care about you and your perceived "maturity", and the large majority of us don't WANT "professionalism", "maturity", esports or sponsorships. we want good competition, a good community, tournaments anyone can go to and anyone can enter. stream watchers should have no say about how we do or act because you aren't a part of who we are
On July 12 2010 14:22 cuppatea wrote: DJWheat plays and watches a lot of SC2 and has decent knowledge of the game. He also has a really good rapport with Day9 and Chill (who are the only guys I've heard him co-commentate with).
Sessler is both completely clueless about the game, event and players he's commentating on and has zero chemistry with his co-commentator.
so you mean like the times that djwheat commentated at devastation
On July 12 2010 14:34 keV. wrote: I believe Khan put together some MAHVEL money matches.
there better be vids
gonna be f5ing preppy's site in the days to come like a madman
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
heh @ calling him "capcom commentator" you know he wrote "domination 101" http://shoryuken.com/f176/ (those were much different times back then when he wrote those though he has changed a lot in the opinions he voices because now he has to be all friendly b/c he works for capcom)
though funny thing is that he isn't entirely aware on sf4's strategies, for example more than once daigo did that to ricky and s-kill said "nice guess dp"
EVO is the type of event that makes me really want to get into fighters. But I feel like if I try to pick up SSF 4 right now another one will come out before im even average .
On July 12 2010 17:03 Serpico wrote: EVO is the type of event that makes me really want to get into fighters. But I feel like if I try to pick up SSF 4 right now another one will come out before im even average .
SSF4 will be the last Street Fighter for a while, so it will remain relevant for the foreseeable future. Most current fighting games don't play anything like SSF4 (SSF2THDR being the closest), so even new releases won't draw away all the player base.
The console release of BlazBlue: Continuum Shift is coming this month or sometime soon if you'd rather learn that. But other than BBCS, the next release won't be until Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in spring 2011, or possibly King of Fighters 13 sometime next year.
Somebody please correct me if I'm forgetting something I shouldn't be.
edit: about Seth Killian commentary and option selects, I thought he was just trying to minimize the technical jargon for the sake of the G4/general audience?
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
let me guess, you've never actually been to a fighting game tournament this isn't esports where we have sponsors (i mean now evo, and like 4 players do), we just show up... enter the tournament... moneymatch people (oh i'm sorry have a "2-man tournament"), take they money, and everyone gets fucking hype. people screaming getting hype for their player from their region, the player from their hometown, the player who plays their character, whatever. it is about pride, and the expectation is that you are intelligent enough to know what is going on, because if you don't the explanation would take longer than the match. you can see what is happening on the screen. djwheat's "professional" commentary is trash because he says what is happening on the screen. "oh look at that 5 hit combo". oh yeah, look at it. we can fucking see it, we don't need you to point it out for us, we are not morons. the streams are first and foremost for us, the fighting game community
in essence, we, as a community, don't care about you and your perceived "maturity", and the large majority of us don't WANT "professionalism", "maturity", esports or sponsorships. we want good competition, a good community, tournaments anyone can go to and anyone can enter. stream watchers should have no say about how we do or act because you aren't a part of who we are
This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
Obviously the community is trying to reach a wider audience, that is why they put in Seth K and that G4 guy at the end of the night but for players it is boring as hell to listen to. The commentary this weekend was a mixed bag, obviously due to the constant rotation across different games; but the general consensus is that the best commentators are the ones that are high level players themselves. I enjoy listening to Seth K commentate, but he really does have to be paired with someone who knows the nuances of the game.
What they need to do is do what the UFC did, and put in a guy who is professional and good at speaking (Seth K / Mike Goldberg), and pair him up with a guy who knows his shit (Joe Rogan / whoever). Then Seth asks questions like 'Why did player A do this instead of that', and the other guy explains it for all the newer players/random viewers.
As for the people who think that trash-talking doesn't belong in major tournaments - it's a game where the goal is to beat the shit out of your opponent. Maybe for someone who isn't familiar with the scene it seems disrespectful and unnecessary, but it really is what makes the community what it is. Rivalries between players and cities are really what fuels us and what makes us put in those countless hours playing the game, and what motivates us to make that shitty 8 hour drive to tournaments.
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
let me guess, you've never actually been to a fighting game tournament this isn't esports where we have sponsors (i mean now evo, and like 4 players do), we just show up... enter the tournament... moneymatch people (oh i'm sorry have a "2-man tournament"), take they money, and everyone gets fucking hype. people screaming getting hype for their player from their region, the player from their hometown, the player who plays their character, whatever. it is about pride, and the expectation is that you are intelligent enough to know what is going on, because if you don't the explanation would take longer than the match. you can see what is happening on the screen. djwheat's "professional" commentary is trash because he says what is happening on the screen. "oh look at that 5 hit combo". oh yeah, look at it. we can fucking see it, we don't need you to point it out for us, we are not morons. the streams are first and foremost for us, the fighting game community
in essence, we, as a community, don't care about you and your perceived "maturity", and the large majority of us don't WANT "professionalism", "maturity", esports or sponsorships. we want good competition, a good community, tournaments anyone can go to and anyone can enter. stream watchers should have no say about how we do or act because you aren't a part of who we are
This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
Stunt it how? What you saw is the community, it's hype, it's rowdy, it's salty, it's crazy. That's the arcade scene. People yell and scream. It's great. Turn off potential sponsors how? Just because that particular scene is apparently too exciting for you doesn't mean the sponsors view it the same. Considering the creator of both Tekken and SF were both there in person and were really excited by the scene's overall energy at Evo says otherwise to what you just posted.
Secondly, you complain about the casters, what do you want them to say? They were pretty good mixing color and technical stuff, they also did a good job balancing game lingo and explaining it. You have some arbitrary sense of maturity and professionalism. These casters did a great job and I hope they keep it up and Evo does not adopt some bullshit cookie cutter casters like you see in professional sports these days.
On July 12 2010 17:03 Serpico wrote: EVO is the type of event that makes me really want to get into fighters. But I feel like if I try to pick up SSF 4 right now another one will come out before im even average .
edit: about Seth Killian commentary and option selects, I thought he was just trying to minimize the technical jargon for the sake of the G4/general audience?
That was my thought too. G4 was recording the final match so Seth didn't want to get bogged down too much in technical information that has no meaning to the average viewer. I do wonder though how many average fighting game players watching live or on the stream are aware of option selects, because when Mike Ross fought Gamerbee I'm pretty sure his nj.hk was being option selected into c.lp or dp but nobody seemed to mention it then, either. Maybe the commentators just aren't aware of Adon's possible OS's but that sure looked like one to me.
Seth is definitely my favorite commentator though, and I'm sure he's quite aware of the various strategies that high level players employ.
On July 12 2010 17:35 InToTheWannaB wrote:This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
First of all, did you even watch the Evo stream this weekend? Was there even ONE case of "having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream"? Aside from the SSF4 top 8, all of the commentators this weekend did a great job, and they did it without cursing or being offensive.
Second, every game community NEEDS to have strict limits on what they are and are NOT willing to concede to gain sponsorship. What's the point of being sponsored if the game is only half as fun to play or watch as it was before? The community is always the most important thing, because without the community there is nothing. Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them. But when they start being unreasonable, communities need to man-up and say NO: we don't need you to have fun and become more popular: we're not going to run a crappy event just to gain your money.
It's like dating: if you're desperate for girls and are willing to do anything for them, then people are going to take advantage of you and while you may get the girl, you'll be much less happy than you were before.
IMO, there need to be limits on how bad the commentary can be. Imagine all big events had to be commentated like the SSF4 top-8: a random guy from sponsor X, plus an experienced player who is forced to dumb-down his commentary for people who only care about watching a fight. Both of them commentating with no hype or energy in their voices. Not only would this suck for us, but the game would actually become LESS popular, because the "fans" you gain from having commentary-for-idiots would not replace the fans and future players you lose from not having funny, exciting, and informative commentary.
And then there are the fanbase demographics.
Look at how many people posted here commenting on how the commentators explained things for them. We are all gamers who enjoy seeing the strategies and mindgames involved in competitive gaming, along with the action and intensity. Contrast that to the audience the G4 commentary was aimed at: random people who have no interest in the thinking behind the game. Now, I think it's obvious which of these demographics we'd like to draw our fans from, and therefore which demographic our commentary should be aimed at.
Lastly, games are supposed to be fun. Tournaments are supposed to be fun. For 99.9% of us, sponsorship is beneficial only as long as it makes things more fun. Would I give up the fun and exciting atmosphere of today's FG events in exchange for a 1 in 1000 chance of earning big money by playing practicing 80 hours a week? Definitely not.
On July 12 2010 21:24 DBunny wrote: As for the people who think that trash-talking doesn't belong in major tournaments - it's a game where the goal is to beat the shit out of your opponent. Maybe for someone who isn't familiar with the scene it seems disrespectful and unnecessary, but it really is what makes the community what it is. Rivalries between players and cities are really what fuels us and what makes us put in those countless hours playing the game, and what motivates us to make that shitty 8 hour drive to tournaments.
+1
Some of the things we don't have or ban if it happens: - People getting into fistfights. - People screaming at each other with hate and rage. - People destroying stage or event equipment (as opposed to their own sticks ). - People getting shitfaced and causing problems such as the above.
I think there are good, sane limits on how far the real disrespect is allowed to go.
And even when real jerks do show up, nobody likes them. So a guy might piss you off by being a dick after he beats you, but then you talk to other guys at the event and realize everyone who's met him thinks he's a dick. Then you feel a lot better. It's justice, basically.
(Contrast that to elementary school or high school, where you can wind up with assholes who are popular, so other people join him in being an asshole instead of siding against him. That shit doesn't fly with us.)
Besides, like DBunny said, most of the "disrespect" is just competitive rivalry, not "I hate you."
The community as a whole is much more mature than an average group of kids.*
(* may not apply to all Smash Bros. Brawl communities, which really can be an average group of kids )
(Btw DBunny, you're not the same person as drunkenbunny, are you? I thought you were at first, but then I ran into him recently and was confused 'cause he didn't look anything like you. )
Can anyone point me to the Tekken grand finals? I looked on the youtube and I've seen a few fights but none after that, something happened to the camera work of the finals? Although...watching Bryan and Bob's and Lars'...shame that Lei got knocked out early Might have to start playing T6 again and bust some Jin, get my own style going
actually that's a good idea...never really did play T6 online much. I got to Warrior rank on T5 until I got scared about losing my rank and stopped playing. Beat a Raijin once too. YE YE YE
Can anyone point me to the Tekken grand finals? I looked on the youtube and I've seen a few fights but none after that, something happened to the camera work of the finals? Although...watching Bryan and Bob's and Lars'...shame that Lei got knocked out early Might have to start playing T6 again and bust some Jin, get my own style going
actually that's a good idea...never really did play T6 online much. I got to Warrior rank on T5 until I got scared about losing my rank and stopped playing. Beat a Raijin once too. YE YE YE
Sadly the tekken online in tekken 6 is complete crap and pretty laggy. It's only worth playing if you have a group of friends going on, or have your own arcade scen nearby.
Here are the links to the games I found for the T6 GF
You can also watch the devastation t6 finals(not evo, but great nevertheless) on djwheat's streaming site: http://djwheat.blip.tv/
Have fun
Edit: I just watched the finals. And I recommend against watching the grand finals, complete and total rape, watch the deva2010 games on djwheat which are much better. And check out jon747 vods of tekken crash on youtube.
On July 12 2010 17:35 InToTheWannaB wrote:This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
First of all, did you even watch the Evo stream this weekend? Was there even ONE case of "having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream"? Aside from the SSF4 top 8, all of the commentators this weekend did a great job, and they did it without cursing or being offensive.
Second, every game community NEEDS to have strict limits on what they are and are NOT willing to concede to gain sponsorship. What's the point of being sponsored if the game is only half as fun to play or watch as it was before? The community is always the most important thing, because without the community there is nothing. Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them. But when they start being unreasonable, communities need to man-up and say NO: we don't need you to have fun and become more popular: we're not going to run a crappy event just to gain your money.
It's like dating: if you're desperate for girls and are willing to do anything for them, then people are going to take advantage of you and while you may get the girl, you'll be much less happy than you were before.
IMO, there need to be limits on how bad the commentary can be. Imagine all big events had to be commentated like the SSF4 top-8: a random guy from sponsor X, plus an experienced player who is forced to dumb-down his commentary for people who only care about watching a fight. Both of them commentating with no hype or energy in their voices. Not only would this suck for us, but the game would actually become LESS popular, because the "fans" you gain from having commentary-for-idiots would not replace the fans and future players you lose from not having funny, exciting, and informative commentary.
And then there are the fanbase demographics.
Look at how many people posted here commenting on how the commentators explained things for them. We are all gamers who enjoy seeing the strategies and mindgames involved in competitive gaming, along with the action and intensity. Contrast that to the audience the G4 commentary was aimed at: random people who have no interest in the thinking behind the game. Now, I think it's obvious which of these demographics we'd like to draw our fans from, and therefore which demographic our commentary should be aimed at.
Lastly, games are supposed to be fun. Tournaments are supposed to be fun. For 99.9% of us, sponsorship is beneficial only as long as it makes things more fun. Would I give up the fun and exciting atmosphere of today's FG events in exchange for a 1 in 1000 chance of earning big money by playing practicing 80 hours a week? Definitely not.
(Edit: my posts are about to go over 9000. )
Ahhh see this makes me want to bang my head into a wall. You make it sound like a sponsor requesting no one curses, or that commentators act in a professional manner at all times on stream is a unreasonable request. One that you may or may not follow anyway because "We don't need the sponsors. No one going tell us how to run our tournys!". There is a reason the fighting game community is the oldest competitive gaming community around, but one of the least sponsored. Its because YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! Sponsors don't want to deal with any type of controversy and you guy are the riskiest community to sponsor by far.
Also you make it sound like if you get sponsors it will somehow kill the fun of the game. You can still have your community run events. Where you can curse and act like a fool on the mic. Then you can have your sponsored tournys where you are there just to compete, win the cash, and go home. That's what every other community does and it seems to work out well for us. More tournaments can only help. No matter how "bad" the tourney is run, more is always better.
Also having a "noob" commentator there to explain things for new viewers is a proven formula. Poker being the closest thing on TV to competitive gaming is the best example. While the commentator explaining the rules and basic strategies of poker every show pisses off the hardcore fan. It helps pull the causal fans into the game. The hardcore fans are going to bitch, but they are not going to stop watching. That's why they are the hardcore fans. If you want a game to grow, get used to that casting formula because its what works.
As for the players getting that extra 1/1000 chance at winning some money for all the practicing they do. I don't know, how about we try instead to get enough sponsors that maybe one day you can have a league. Where players earn a salary regardless of what place they finish in any individual tournament. Sounds fun to me.
On July 13 2010 04:21 InToTheWannaB wrote:Ahhh see this makes me want to bang my head into a wall. You make it sound like a sponsor requesting no one curses, or that commentators act in a professional manner at all times on stream is a unreasonable request.
... Wow. Just wow.
First of all, I said the exact opposite of that in my post:
On July 13 2010 01:34 Bill307 wrote: Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them.
Every time I referred to bad commentary, I explicity used the SSF4 top 8 as an example, while I used the rest of Evo as an example of great commentary that is both professional and cursing-free.
I asked at the start of my post if you had even listened to the Evo commentary besides the top-8. Now, I'm sure you didn't and that you have no idea what you are talking about. The entire Evo commentary had to adhere to certain standards because Evo is already sponsored by a number of companies. The SSF4 top-8 is a special case because it had extra requirements for G4 and because it was awful as a result.
Nothing personal, but I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because I feel like it'd be a waste of my time.
EPT
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