Friday, July 9th 9AM-noon Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Pool Play noon-midnight SSFIV Pool Play
Saturday, July 10th 9am - 1pm Tekken 6 Pool Play 1pm - 3pm Tekken 6 Semi-Final Bracket (highlighed matches between the top 64 players) 3pm - 9pm SSFIV Semi-Final Bracket (highlighed matches between the top 64 players)
Sunday, July 11th 10am-12pm Melty Blood, Actress Again Tournament finals 12pm-2pm Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Tournament Finals 2pm-4pm Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Tournament Finals 4pm-4:30pm SSFIV Women’s Invitational Finals 4:30-6pm Super SFII HD Remix Tournament Finals 6pm-8pm Tekken 6 Tournament Finals 8pm-9pm Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Exhibition 9pm-11pm SSFIV Tournament Finals
Evo is the largest fighting game tournament in the world, held yearly in Las Vegas, NV, where people from all over the world fly out to compete. Last year there were over 1,000 entrants for Street Fighter 4, and expect there to be more this time. However the big question is: Will the USA come out on top this year? Or will the Japanese show their dominance once again?
Daigo says he's going to bring the pain:
List of tournament games Super Street Street Fighter IV (PS3) Super Turbo HD Remix (PS3) Tekken 6 (PS3) Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (PS3) Melty Blood: Actress Again (PS2) Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars (Wii) SSFIV Female Only Invitational! (PS3)
Prize money distributed as 70/20/10 of total pool. Also, top 8 for SSF4 and winner of the ladies tournament will receive a limited edition Gold Madcatz TE.
Los Angeles, CA, July 2, 2010 – Fans of fighting series “Street Fighter” and “Marvel vs. Capcom” prepare for battle as G4 is set to rock your virtual world. This July 9-11 the greatest virtual gladiators known to man will descend upon Caesar’s Palace Resort and Casino in Las Vegas for EVO 2010, the world’s most impressive fighting game competition, and G4 will provide coverage of the three-day tournament as never before. 45 hours of live streaming coverage at http://G4tv.com/EVO and a 30-minute X-Play special airing on July 20th makes G4 the place to be for the most comprehensive coverage of this year’s massive competition.
“The excitement and growth of EVO have been incredible, and I’m thrilled to bring the heat of competitive fighting games like Super Street Fighter IV to G4’s audience,” says Tom Cannon, Founder, EVO Championship Series.
Beginning at 9:00am PT July 9th, G4TV.com, powered by Stickam, the first live streaming video network, will offer unprecedented access to the EVO 2010 world championships with 45 hours of non-stop live streaming coverage. The exclusive stream will feature tournament matches between top players, with live crowd audio accompanied by expert commentary to explain all the onscreen action. This streaming event will run from the start of the tournament on July 9th through the finals on July 11th.
“Live streaming really ups the ante for viewer engagement,” said Steven Fruchter, CEO of Stickam. “Since 2006, Stickam has truly paved the way for real-time interactive Web television, and we’re excited to see how G4 fans react when they can truly take part in the EVO world championships.”
Streamed coverage will broadcast matches featuring the world’s top players flying in from 20 countries, including Japan’s Daigo Umehara, EVO 2009 World Champion, as well as special guest “Super Street Fighter IV” producer Yoshinori Ono and “Marvel vs. Capcom 3″ producer Ryota Niitsuma.
From the preliminaries to the finals and everything in between, G4tv.com’s live streaming will highlight all the action of the six featured tournaments:
Super Street Fighter IV Tekken 6 Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Melty Blood: Actress Again
On Tuesday, July 20 at 6:30 pm, a special episode of “X-Play”, TV’s most watched videogame show, will be completely devoted to EVO 2010. X-Play vs. Capcom: EVO 2010 World Fighting Finals will delve into the legacy of Capcom’s legendary fighting games, and give viewers an all-access look at the history of EVO as it’s developed from a fledgling format to a mega-successful fighting institution. The show will include a new preview of “Marvel vs. Capcom 3,” as well as complete coverage of the “Super Street Fighter IV” World Finals, with color commentary from Adam Sessler and special guest Seth Killian, for whom a character in “Street Fighter IV” was named.
“The passion and enthusiasm surrounding EVO is infectious and when you see the skill level of the top players, even those who don’t dabble in fighting games will be slack-jawed,” says Adam Sessler, X-Play Host and Editor-in-Chief of Games Content.
This year’s coverage is unlike anything ever presented before, and marks an ongoing commitment from G4 to employ both on-air and online strategies to provide fans with the most complete and explosive gaming coverage anywhere.
• Juicebox Abel (Abel) eliminates Wolfkrone (C. Viper) 2-0.
• Daigo Umehara (Ryu) beat Lamerboi (Guile) 2-0.
• EG.Justin Wong (Rufus) beat Arubi "RB" Kao (Guy, Rufus) 2-0.
• Ricky Ortiz (Rufus) beat Ari "fLoE" Weintraub (Sagat) 2-0.
• Henry Cen (E. Honda) beat Rico Suave (Abel) 2-1.
• Mike Ross (E. Honda) beat J.R. Rodriguez (Akuma) 2-1
• Vangief (Zangief) beat Banana Ken (Ken) 2-1.
• Infiltration (Akuma) eliminated Big Marcus (M. Bison) 2-0.
Top 32
Winners bracket: • Daigo Umehara (Ryu) vs. Lamerboi (Guile) • Shizza (Chun-Li) vs. Alex Valle (Ryu) • J.R. Rodriguez (Akuma) vs. Mike Ross (E. Honda) • Dr. Chaos (Ken) vs. Soon Young Yim • Justin Wong vs. Arubi "RB" Kao • Vance "Vangief" Wu (Zangief) vs. Banana Ken • Henry Cen vs. Rico Suave (Abel) • Ricky Ortiz (Rufus) vs. Ari "fLoE" Weintraub (Chun-Li, Rufus, Sagat)
Losers bracket: • John Choi (Ryu) vs. Sanford Kelly (Sagat, Cammy) • Big Marcus vs. Infiltration (Akuma, Juri) • Tokido (Akuma) vs. Hugo101 (M. Bison) • Juicebox Abel (Abel) vs. Wolfkrone (C. Viper) • Arturo "Sabin" Sanchez (Rose, Dhalsim) vs. WarahK (Guile) • Eita (Akuma) vs. GamerBee • L.I. Joe vs. FYC Ryder (Abel) • Tatsu (Vega) vs. Online Tony (Seth)
Last year the stream was pretty disappointing, and the commentary started to grate on me with the exception of Dog and Seth. Skisonic is cool but only in small doses. If they raise the framerate and the bandwidth things will be really sweet, but I can only imagine the bandwidth demands of a tournament like this.
Skisonic is probably the closest person they have as a commentator that can technically commentate at least 3 of the games (almost 4 if you include his small stints with Melty knowledge). I guess people don't like when he randomly gets into it, but hey what can you do.
not sure how accurate this is but apparently 2k people signed up for ssf4 alone 0.0 also for ssf4 pot prize alone is 20k and counting. should be hella hype. cant wait for mvc2/t6/ssf4 ^^
I thought the best match of the morning from what I saw was Wolfkrone (pad Viper) vs. Neo (Juri). It was settled in the last round where both players were down to less than 3% health in just twenty seconds in to the round. Neo, who is from Korea, pulled it out for the win.
Some Blanka player got mad salty and threw his stick after he lost to Juicebox Abel and threatened to kick his ass. lol
Winners bracket: • Daigo Umehara (Ryu) vs. Lamerboi (Guile) • Shizza (Chun-Li) vs. Alex Valle (Ryu) • J.R. Rodriguez (Akuma) vs. Mike Ross (E. Honda) • Dr. Chaos (Ken) vs. Soon Young Yim
Losers bracket: • John Choi (Ryu) vs. Sanford Kelly (Sagat, Cammy) • Big Marcus vs. Infiltration (Akuma, Juri) • Tokido (Akuma) Hugo101 (M. Bison) • Juicebox Abel (Abel) vs. Wolfkrone (C. Viper)
On July 10 2010 13:07 GreEny K wrote: Wow, this is pretty sweet. I used to love playing Tekken, btw, why aren't there any games for xbox?
EVO has been using Sony's consoles for a very long time. They had the PS3's since the days of vanilla SF4. The reason is because the PS3 version of SF4 was more closer to the arcade version than the 360. The PS3 is more reliable and they didn't have to worry about the 360 getting the RROD. Also In vanilla SF4 it was easier to unlock everything on the PS3's and many people still used the PS2 sticks, which were easier to adapt to a PS3 without any lag.
On July 10 2010 15:13 Bill307 wrote: Edma eliminates Marn in losers:
That match was sick. Glad to see Ma win it because he's been MIA for nearly a year while playing SSF4 online mainly. Hopefully he does well like last year's EVO.
The PS3 has 1 extra frame of input lag compared to the XBox, actually.
A big problem with using PS3s for major tournaments is that you need to get a license from Sony to do so. Microsoft allows you to use the XBox for money events like tournaments, but Sony does NOT allow you to use the PS3 without a license from them. Evidently Evo is licensing the PS3s, but I don't think any other majors do.
Last year they put up HQ recordings (i.e. 720p for the HD games at decent quality settings) online for a price. I'm not sure what's happening this year. Previously they released physical DVDs of some matches, while last year they had that digital release via IGN. I think if you just subscribed to IGN for a year at a reduced price of $15 or so, you got access.
Weird, I just noticed that my old man spells "Hsien" as "Hsein," unlike most people. -_-;;
edit: Is Bob the cheapest character in Tekken 6? I don't know anything about Tekken, but Tokido picked him on stream!
stream working perfect for me this morning, lets hope it stays that way
On July 11 2010 01:08 Myrmidon wrote: edit: Is Bob the cheapest character in Tekken 6? I don't know anything about Tekken, but Tokido picked him on stream!
Bob's pretty high up on the tier list, only below the mishimas iirc
lol, clown game? I don't think so. I don't want to get into a huge discussion over it, but Tekken does require a lot of skill, timing, etc just as any other fg. A lot of top ssf4 players can't even hang with Tekken if they do try to switch over.
its a stupid clown game. here's what you do in tekken:
+
let's watch two chumps flail at each other and then see who can juggle the most!!!! booya!!!! i've never seen so many whiffed moves go unpunished in a top level fighting tournament. yes i know next to nothing about tekken, but goddamn is it ever a game for clowns
i'm glad you think the inability of top ssf4 players to compete in a game that is drastically different from the game they play validates the quality of tekken though
i just saw a guy playing law whiff the SAME KICK three times before tokido stopped twitching just out of range and walked into the fourth. riveting.
Of course juggling is a big deal about Tekken because that is what makes the game. Juggles are the limit break,ultra, neo max of Tekken. At an amateur level, you can win in Tekken easily by mashing, no doubt, but like any other fg, you have to know the game inside and out. What Tekken has over fg's like SSF4 is a wider variety of ways of expressing yourself. Not only through juggles, but through a number of options: stance changes, fakes, flowcharts (the good kind, not things like flowchart Ken), etc. It all creates a deeper sense of mind games whereas in SSF4, it boils down to reacting to crossups, throws, overheads and footsies. Generally though, in Tekken, the play style is dependent more on the player than the character whereas the reverse is true in SSF4. And that's my opinion anyway.
EDIT I don't hate vanilla or SSF4 since I play that more than Tekken 6 itself. I just hate it when common shit like SSF4 vs Tekken is brought up. It's like arguing over PS3 vs 360, SC vs SC2, Counter-Strike 1.6 vs Counter-Strike: Source, etc.
the concept of footsies in ssf4 is far more complicated than anything i've seen in tekken. i can't agree with your conclusion that ssf4 is all about reaction time
the playstyle being more dependent on the player in tekken is largely a product of far, FAR less variety in what characters can do. most characters in ssf4 can, though not necessarily optimally, fight from any range. characters who can't have very strong mixup games at close range and tools to get past other characters' zoning. watch a close abel vs rufus match between two top players and tell me it's all about reaction time.
a stance change is nothing but a substitution of move sets with a very clear visual cue. how this is an aspect of tekken's mind games i surely can't comprehend. it ought to be an automatic adjustment on the opponent's part.
i can see how the concept of 'fakes' is more pronounced in a 3d game like tekken, where the 3d model-based engine gives a murkier picture of what your opponent is throwing out than in a bright, 2d, frame-based game like ssf4. since the concept of 'faking' is called 'baiting' in ssf4, there is some common ground between the games here. i don't know enough about tekken to determine which system is more complex, but i can sure as hell say that ssf4 has it in spades.
the ability to adhere to a flowchart in competitive play is disgraceful to me
I used to be a tekken only fan, now that I played SSF4, I just dont really find Tekken nearly as interesting as SSF4. Tho I still think its a wonderful game requiring a ton of skills.
On July 11 2010 06:02 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the concept of footsies in ssf4 is far more complicated than anything i've seen in tekken. i can't agree with your conclusion that ssf4 is all about reaction time
the playstyle being more dependent on the player in tekken is largely a product of far, FAR less variety in what characters can do. most characters in ssf4 can, though not necessarily optimally, fight from any range. characters who can't have very strong mixup games at close range and tools to get past other characters' zoning. watch a close abel vs rufus match between two top players and tell me it's all about reaction time.
a stance change is nothing but a substitution of move sets with a very clear visual cue. how this is an aspect of tekken's mind games i surely can't comprehend. it ought to be an automatic adjustment on the opponent's part.
i can see how the concept of 'fakes' is more pronounced in a 3d game like tekken, where the 3d model-based engine gives a murkier picture of what your opponent is throwing out than in a bright, 2d, frame-based game like ssf4. since the concept of 'faking' is called 'baiting' in ssf4, there is some common ground between the games here. i don't know enough about tekken to determine which system is more complex, but i can sure as hell say that ssf4 has it in spades.
the ability to adhere to a flowchart in competitive play is disgraceful to me
I think the thing that bothers me most about Tekken is that many moves cause a deceptive amount of blockstun and recovery. Moves that you think are punishable because they involve an opponent lunging at you body and limb, leaving them wide open, are actually safe and it's very confusing. I do like Namco fighting games because they involve stages more than other fighting games, making the environment more than just a pretty background and adding a certain element of strategy. When it comes to competitive play for Tekken and to a lesser extent Soulcalibur, though, there are a lot of intricacies that players and spectators need to know to be able to follow along, moreso than SF4 in my opinion.
seriously let's just take a moment and reflect on this horrible post
starcraft, the most complex and evolved competitive game. teamliquid, a website dedicated to said game with extensive databanks and theorycraft taking place daily.
flowchart? really? what are you, a D rank protoss?
ssf4 semis aren't scheduled for another 6 minutes, may need some setup time. it could also just be a rough itinerary, maybe HDR is taking a little longer to complete than they thought.
Oh forgive me it's not a flow chart at all, it's just heavily practiced, predetermined responses to common scenarios that may occur during the course of a match; responses that often occur at the level of reaction rather than decision making in professional level play, due to the heavy practice time with which to drill these predetermined responses. Especially in 10+ year old games where many details have been optimized and practiced into muscle memory.
Completely different from following a flow chart, which is what Tekken players do; I know this despite having nearly zero comprehension of Tekken, which is fine because it is a game for CLOWNS because clowns do a lot of JUGGLING and I am not a clown because I don't really juggle ever. Except for EX legs into ultra. That doesn't count, because I'm not a clown, nor am I following a flow chart because my decision to do an ultra after EX legs is an on-the-spot, improvised decision rather than a decision informed by the knowledge that every time I connect EX legs in that situation, I can juggle my ultra after it. Oh I mean COMBO the ultra, not juggle it. No clowning around here, sir.
Besides, Koreans play SC on TV, not Tekken, and Korean SC players get flown out to international tournaments while Korean Tekken players do not. Ever. Because Tekken is for clowns.
Case closed, it's as easy as following a flow chart.
On July 11 2010 07:17 MCMcEmcee wrote: Oh forgive me it's not a flow chart at all, it's just heavily practiced, predetermined responses to common scenarios that may occur during the course of a match; responses that often occur at the level of reaction rather than decision making in professional level play, due to the heavy practice time with which to drill these predetermined responses. Especially in 10+ year old games where many details have been optimized and practiced into muscle memory.
Completely different from following a flow chart, which is what Tekken players do; I know this despite having nearly zero comprehension of Tekken, which is fine because it is a game for CLOWNS because clowns do a lot of JUGGLING and I am not a clown because I don't really juggle ever. Except for EX legs into ultra. That doesn't count, because I'm not a clown, nor am I following a flow chart because my decision to do an ultra after EX legs is an on-the-spot, improvised decision rather than a decision informed by the knowledge that every time I connect EX legs in that situation, I can juggle my ultra after it. Oh I mean COMBO the ultra, not juggle it. No clowning around here, sir.
Besides, Koreans play SC on TV, not Tekken, and Korean SC players get flown out to international tournaments while Korean Tekken players do not. Ever. Because Tekken is for clowns.
Case closed, it's as easy as following a flow chart.
Actually there's a TV show called Tekken Crash on MBC Game. Of course Tekken is not as popular as BW in Korea, but I would consider Tekken as 2nd biggest esports game in Korea.
On July 11 2010 07:17 MCMcEmcee wrote: Oh forgive me it's not a flow chart at all, it's just heavily practiced, predetermined responses to common scenarios that may occur during the course of a match; responses that often occur at the level of reaction rather than decision making in professional level play, due to the heavy practice time with which to drill these predetermined responses. Especially in 10+ year old games where many details have been optimized and practiced into muscle memory.
Completely different from following a flow chart, which is what Tekken players do; I know this despite having nearly zero comprehension of Tekken, which is fine because it is a game for CLOWNS because clowns do a lot of JUGGLING and I am not a clown because I don't really juggle ever. Except for EX legs into ultra. That doesn't count, because I'm not a clown, nor am I following a flow chart because my decision to do an ultra after EX legs is an on-the-spot, improvised decision rather than a decision informed by the knowledge that every time I connect EX legs in that situation, I can juggle my ultra after it. Oh I mean COMBO the ultra, not juggle it. No clowning around here, sir.
Besides, Koreans play SC on TV, not Tekken, and Korean SC players get flown out to international tournaments while Korean Tekken players do not. Ever. Because Tekken is for clowns.
Case closed, it's as easy as following a flow chart.
it was a really really dumb comparison and this post is also dumb
Instead of all this whatever the hell is going on, maybe people should talk about EVO as it's awesome. Fighting games are the 2nd best spectator game behind Starcraft obviously . So exciting and so easy to follow along with.
On July 11 2010 08:11 Logo wrote: Daigo vs Cole in HDR was nuts!
Instead of all this whatever the hell is going on, maybe people should talk about EVO as it's awesome. Fighting games are the 2nd best spectator game behind Starcraft obviously . So exciting and so easy to follow along with.
On July 11 2010 06:39 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously let's just take a moment and reflect on this horrible post
starcraft, the most complex and evolved competitive game. teamliquid, a website dedicated to said game with extensive databanks and theorycraft taking place daily.
flowchart? really? what are you, a D rank protoss?
It's a game. There exists by definition perfect play. This perfect play is, as a result of the game being a strategy game, composed of game decisions made in response to information available. For any given set of information, there exists an optimal decision to be made.
This is, in theory, precisely representable as a flow chart.
Mind you, the post is still horrible, because any and all games, played perfectly, are identical to following a flowchart.
On July 11 2010 06:02 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the concept of footsies in ssf4 is far more complicated than anything i've seen in tekken. i can't agree with your conclusion that ssf4 is all about reaction time
the playstyle being more dependent on the player in tekken is largely a product of far, FAR less variety in what characters can do. most characters in ssf4 can, though not necessarily optimally, fight from any range. characters who can't have very strong mixup games at close range and tools to get past other characters' zoning. watch a close abel vs rufus match between two top players and tell me it's all about reaction time.
a stance change is nothing but a substitution of move sets with a very clear visual cue. how this is an aspect of tekken's mind games i surely can't comprehend. it ought to be an automatic adjustment on the opponent's part.
i can see how the concept of 'fakes' is more pronounced in a 3d game like tekken, where the 3d model-based engine gives a murkier picture of what your opponent is throwing out than in a bright, 2d, frame-based game like ssf4. since the concept of 'faking' is called 'baiting' in ssf4, there is some common ground between the games here. i don't know enough about tekken to determine which system is more complex, but i can sure as hell say that ssf4 has it in spades.
the ability to adhere to a flowchart in competitive play is disgraceful to me
I think the thing that bothers me most about Tekken is that many moves cause a deceptive amount of blockstun and recovery. Moves that you think are punishable because they involve an opponent lunging at you body and limb, leaving them wide open, are actually safe and it's very confusing. I do like Namco fighting games because they involve stages more than other fighting games, making the environment more than just a pretty background and adding a certain element of strategy. When it comes to competitive play for Tekken and to a lesser extent Soulcalibur, though, there are a lot of intricacies that players and spectators need to know to be able to follow along, moreso than SF4 in my opinion.
This. First time I watched high level Tekken play was today, I thought there was a lot of punishable stuff as well but some weren't at all. Definitely deep game based on what was shown, namely a good spread of characters, with some pretty tense mind games. This coming from a MvC2 player.
On July 11 2010 06:39 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously let's just take a moment and reflect on this horrible post
starcraft, the most complex and evolved competitive game. teamliquid, a website dedicated to said game with extensive databanks and theorycraft taking place daily.
flowchart? really? what are you, a D rank protoss?
It's a game. There exists by definition perfect play. This perfect play is, as a result of the game being a strategy game, composed of game decisions made in response to information available. For any given set of information, there exists an optimal decision to be made.
This is, in theory, precisely representable as a flow chart.
Mind you, the post is still horrible, because any and all games, played perfectly, are identical to following a flowchart.
except there are multiple paths that could be considered equally optimal at any given time (or most junctions i guess i should say in case someone feels like quoting me and arguing semantics -_____-) which is why starcraft enjoys such stunning variety in gameplay
On July 11 2010 06:39 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously let's just take a moment and reflect on this horrible post
starcraft, the most complex and evolved competitive game. teamliquid, a website dedicated to said game with extensive databanks and theorycraft taking place daily.
flowchart? really? what are you, a D rank protoss?
It's a game. There exists by definition perfect play. This perfect play is, as a result of the game being a strategy game, composed of game decisions made in response to information available. For any given set of information, there exists an optimal decision to be made.
This is, in theory, precisely representable as a flow chart.
Mind you, the post is still horrible, because any and all games, played perfectly, are identical to following a flowchart.
no, this is wrong and ignorant, because there is such a thing as psychology; "mind games"
On July 11 2010 09:02 travis wrote: no, this is wrong and ignorant, because there is such a thing as psychology; "mind games"
At most this addition gets you to the point of having multiple paths/branches that are equally optimal. A flowchart can still represent such a situation, and I wouldn't even grant that mindgames somehow stop there from being an optimal way of playing.
I don't see why people think its somehow a bad thing that you can represent a game as a flowchart. The only thing you can't represent as a flowchart is something which involves no user decisions whatsoever.
On July 11 2010 09:02 travis wrote: no, this is wrong and ignorant, because there is such a thing as psychology; "mind games"
At most this addition gets you to the point of having multiple paths/branches that are equally optimal. A flowchart can still represent such a situation, and I wouldn't even grant that mindgames somehow stop there from being an optimal way of playing.
to claim that one could use a flowchart to learn to play optimally belittles one's ability to creatively "out-think" your opponent, which is a huge part of starcraft.
yes, mindgames stop there from being an optimal way of playing. you clearly haven't played much broodwar, at least not at a very high level. it's like saying you can use a flowchart to map out how to play poker optimally. no, no you can't.
you couldn't even make a flowchart to demonstrate it, because there are infinite levels to mind games, they are infinitely complex.
On July 11 2010 09:12 travis wrote: to claim that one could use a flowchart to learn to play optimally belittles one's ability to creatively "out-think" your opponent, which is a huge part of starcraft.
I'm pretty sure I never said you could use it to learn. I specifically said starcraft was in theory representable as a flowchart because that flowchart would be utterly ridiculous in size.
it's like saying you can use a flowchart to map out how to play poker optimally. no, no you can't.
Uh, yes, you can? [edit] in theory [/edit] Mindgames are simply another game being played on top of whatever the game in question is. They are characterized, as always, by decisions made under conditions of uncertainty. Mindgames themselves can be represented as flowcharts - there is no reason mindgames will prevent a game they take place within from being represented similarly.
you couldn't even make a flowchart to demonstrate it, because there are infinite levels to mind games, they are infinitely complex.
The only mindgames that are infinitely complex are variations of the "he knows that I know that he knows that I know..." series, and there is already an optimal way of playing such situations out.
On July 11 2010 09:12 travis wrote: to claim that one could use a flowchart to learn to play optimally belittles one's ability to creatively "out-think" your opponent, which is a huge part of starcraft.
I'm pretty sure I never said you could use it to learn. I specifically said starcraft was in theory representable as a flowchart because that flowchart would be utterly ridiculous in size.
it's like saying you can use a flowchart to map out how to play poker optimally. no, no you can't.
Uh, yes, you can? [edit] in theory [/edit] Mindgames are simply another game being played on top of whatever the game in question is. They are characterized, as always, by decisions made under conditions of uncertainty. Mindgames themselves can be represented as flowcharts - there is no reason mindgames will prevent a game they take place within from being represented similarly.
you couldn't even make a flowchart to demonstrate it, because there are infinite levels to mind games, they are infinitely complex.
The only mindgames that are infinitely complex are variations of the "he knows that I know that he knows that I know..." series, and there is already an optimal way of playing such situations out.
if your argument boils down to "it could be a flowchart of infinite size" then it's a stupid argument
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
I was personally rooting for Tatsu because he is sooooo underrated. Mainly folks from the west coast knows why I'm saying that. Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
I was personally rooting for Tatsu because he is sooooo underrated. Mainly folks from the west coast knows why I'm saying that. Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
The only Adon player right now.
Hardly bm, he just went 4 straight after getting rolled for the first 3, I would be hyped too.
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
I was personally rooting for Tatsu because he is sooooo underrated. Mainly folks from the west coast knows why I'm saying that. Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
The only Adon player right now.
Hardly bm, he just went 4 straight after getting rolled for the first 3, I would be hyped too.
Sanford such a Marvel player lol.
In the tournament? There were plenty of Adon's and there are some good Adon's replays on YouTube too. Actually, Neo is kinda bm if you seen his other matches before.
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
I don't know. FBH has some creative bm; that guy just looked like a dick. It was probably because he came back after losing the first match.
Adon looks like a fun character because of how fast he is. Again, I know very little about SF4 and learning simple things about the super characters from the commentators.
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
I was personally rooting for Tatsu because he is sooooo underrated. Mainly folks from the west coast knows why I'm saying that. Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
The only Adon player right now.
Hardly bm, he just went 4 straight after getting rolled for the first 3, I would be hyped too.
Sanford such a Marvel player lol.
In the tournament? There were plenty of Adon's and there are some good Adon's replays on YouTube too. Actually, Neo is kinda bm if you seen his other matches before.
Pretty sure he's the only Adon left. I take YouTube videos with a large helping of salt especially with a large and popular community like (S)SF4.
It doesn't matter about Neo's bm history, he's hardly bm in that instance. He did it towards the crowd, shook with Tatsu and came out on top of a close match.
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
I was personally rooting for Tatsu because he is sooooo underrated. Mainly folks from the west coast knows why I'm saying that. Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
The only Adon player right now.
Hardly bm, he just went 4 straight after getting rolled for the first 3, I would be hyped too.
Sanford such a Marvel player lol.
In the tournament? There were plenty of Adon's and there are some good Adon's replays on YouTube too. Actually, Neo is kinda bm if you seen his other matches before.
It doesn't matter about Neo's bm history, he's hardly bm in that instance. He did it towards the crowd, shook with Tatsu and came out on top of a close match.
I don't know. Doing bm towards the crowd and shaking hands are standard practice. It's basically a habitual way to do it. Regardless, this is ridiculous overanalysis.
P.S. These commentators pronounce the char names quite differently from me. Dhalsim in this match. Edit: Read "Dhalseem"
On July 11 2010 10:42 Durak wrote: That guy is bm. I hope he gets knocked out.
I was personally rooting for Tatsu because he is sooooo underrated. Mainly folks from the west coast knows why I'm saying that. Neo is kinda bm, but he's entertaining like FBH.
EDIT I didn't even know gamer bee was in this until a couple of matches earlier. Definitely one of the best Adon's right now.
The only Adon player right now.
Hardly bm, he just went 4 straight after getting rolled for the first 3, I would be hyped too.
Sanford such a Marvel player lol.
In the tournament? There were plenty of Adon's and there are some good Adon's replays on YouTube too. Actually, Neo is kinda bm if you seen his other matches before.
It doesn't matter about Neo's bm history, he's hardly bm in that instance. He did it towards the crowd, shook with Tatsu and came out on top of a close match.
I don't know. Doing bm towards the crowd and shaking hands are standard practice. It's basically a habitual way to do it. Regardless, this is ridiculous overanalysis.
P.S. These commentators pronounce the char names quite differently from me. Dhalsim in this match.
No, if you're next to the person, you can easily do it in their face or even facing the screen. He did it in justified situations. If the man wants to celebrate, let him. It's not like he's talking shit after every fucking move like I have seen some Marvel players do when they got the upper hand.
Funnily enough, the fastest game with the greatest swings in game states (HDR) had a pause and both players just unpaused and didn't miss a beat continuing.
On July 11 2010 11:23 SingletonWilliam wrote: Hoping gamerbee beats neo, Neo is a little bm.
I want gamerbee to win because Adon is one of the many unpopular characters and that I'm a fellow Adon player as well.
Gamer bee -> Player of the tournament IMO. So amazing.
Wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Adon players surface after EVO lol. Just like how there was a ton of Guile players after Daigo used him vs J. Wong at LA Fight Club.
Mentally technical maybe, it tests the player's patience more than anything if you know the match up, lamer once again did a great job figuring out what works and what doesn't, art looked like he just mentally failed after lamer took a game.
On July 11 2010 13:03 Demoninja wrote: Damn causing srk to crash? That's crazy as F. I might buy this game now.
Why wouldn't you in the first place? The game is very cheap compared to game prices now a days. Last time I checked, SSF4 (both PS3 and 360) were around $27.99 (orig. is $40) at GameStop.
I'm completely clueless about the scene/game, I only recognize JWong from his history with Daigo, didn't even know much about Adon except people disparaging him (stream + this thread as the match started), but I still gotta say I've been getting goosebumps from that last set, hahah.
On July 11 2010 12:21 Chill wrote: lol i yelled out too haha im 2 hours late for a birthday party but i cant leave because this stream is so fucking amazing holy shit
That was so freaking good.
Honestly, I can't even watch BW that long. It's like long distance running and I'm going to pass out at 5AM, even if it's like SPL Finals. SF games are sprints, and I was watching the stream from like 11:30-now and I didn't even notice the time until some sun came in the window and it was fucking 6am.
Jesus I need to sleep now but that was just fantastic. Esp. the end.
On July 11 2010 13:03 Demoninja wrote: Damn causing srk to crash? That's crazy as F. I might buy this game now.
Why wouldn't you in the first place? The game is very cheap compared to game prices now a days. Last time I checked, SSF4 (both PS3 and 360) were around $27.99 (orig. is $40) at GameStop.
Poor poor student haha. The spending I have is being saved for SC2.
Southlight, even I've never heard of a lot of these players before. Shizza, Vangief, Lamerboi, GamerBee: this is the first time I've heard of any of them. :O
On July 11 2010 13:05 Southlight wrote: I'm completely clueless about the scene/game, I only recognize JWong from his history with Daigo, didn't even know much about Adon except people disparaging him (stream + this thread as the match started), but I still gotta say I've been getting goosebumps from that last set, hahah.
Adon is from the Alpha series, he wasn't in regular SF4. that means this guy had from april 27th until now to learn how to play as Adon in SSF4. Fucking SAVAGE, man.
It looks fun too! My chun is all about the rushdown, maybe I should give Adon a mess around
On July 11 2010 13:06 Bill307 wrote: HOLY SHIT, JUSTIN WONG ELIMINATED BEFORE TOP 8!!
Southlight, even I've never heard of a lot of these players before. Shizza, Vangief, Lamerboi, GamerBee: this is the first time I've heard of any of them. :O
how the fuck you never heard of shizza?! he's the sickest chun outside of japan!
On July 11 2010 13:06 Bill307 wrote: HOLY SHIT, JUSTIN WONG ELIMINATED BEFORE TOP 8!!
Southlight, even I've never heard of a lot of these players before. Shizza, Vangief, Lamerboi, GamerBee: this is the first time I've heard of any of them. :O
how the fuck you never heard of shizza?! he's the sickest chun outside of japan!
Isn't he relatively new? I'm terrible at the game, but I follow the scene, I hadn't heard of him either.
I saw a little bit of Vangief and Lamerboi last month on a few streams/replays, but not much. I think people were probably expecting a much more classic lineup. No Art, Valle, Choi, Ed etc.
Really refreshing top 8. Not too many repeat Chars. AND NO ABELS! HURRRAYYY
Man I'm kicking myself for not going to UGTL competitions to meet some of these guys, heres to hoping SoCal/LA brings it home! Grats to Ross especially on top 8!
On July 11 2010 13:11 Bill307 wrote: The viewer count on the stream has been CRAZY, too. Over 22,000 viewers at the end of the day!
I remember talking to some nerds on the Devastation stream, and when someone asked about 09's viewers I guessed about 20-25k and was immediately BLASTED.
"LOL YEA RIGHT, 15K TOPPS"
and now 23k before even finals and up to like 17000 in pool play. Insane!
On July 11 2010 13:06 Bill307 wrote: HOLY SHIT, JUSTIN WONG ELIMINATED BEFORE TOP 8!!
Southlight, even I've never heard of a lot of these players before. Shizza, Vangief, Lamerboi, GamerBee: this is the first time I've heard of any of them. :O
Hahha, I have since I'm from the west coast, and they attend almost every west coast tournament. Look up lamerboi vs kai or lamerboi vs justin wong at NCR. He's a VERY clutch player.
Funny thing is that Adon was the first character that I played when I first bought SSF4. I didn't stick w/ him that long and went on to try the new characters. Glad that I made the right choice to stick w/ him over my old main in vanilla. Gamerbee, you did an amazing job repping all Adon players.
On July 11 2010 13:06 Bill307 wrote: HOLY SHIT, JUSTIN WONG ELIMINATED BEFORE TOP 8!!
Southlight, even I've never heard of a lot of these players before. Shizza, Vangief, Lamerboi, GamerBee: this is the first time I've heard of any of them. :O
Hahha, I have since I'm from the west coast, and they attend almost every west coast tournament. Look up lamerboi vs kai or lamerboi vs justin wong at NCR. He's a VERY clutch player.
Funny thing is that Adon was the first character that I played when I first bought SSF4. I didn't stick w/ him that long and went on to try the new characters. Glad that I made the right choice to stick w/ him over my old main in vanilla. Gamerbee, you did an amazing job repping all Adon players.
The only reason I know the name Lamerboi is he's a regular at one of the biweekly meetups in Milpitas. Do you go there? A friend and I are thinking of going to the next one which is in 2 weeks I believe. Vangief made a big name for himself at NCR getting super far with nerfed Zangief.
I still don't know what people are talking about when they say Gief has an advantage over Rufus. I think those matches proved that Gief has to work incredibly hard to break a turtling Rufus (and when you play Gief, everyone is a turtle).
^ its in gief's favor. 6-4 maybe 7-3 gief can kinda freely s.strong (his ric flair chop) freely if rufus has no meter. plus rufus's footsies kinda meh except his long range c.fierce but u saw vangief focus forward c.lk ex pimpslap. lariet shuts down rufus's divekick obviously its a bad matchup but still a hella upset thou
On July 11 2010 13:19 Bill307 wrote: LOTS of big names are missing from the top 8: - Justin Wong - Arturo - Tokido - Eita - Alex Valle - John Choi
And even failing to get into the top 32: - Marn (lol, that's what he gets for sandbagging with Dudley ) - Ed Ma - Flash Metroid
Lastly, LOT of relatively new players made it to the top 32.
It's really incredible to see how many players have stepped up to this level since SF4 and Super came out.
I think we knew just from seeing who was going to Evo just how brutal and bloody the brackets were going to be. It's still surprising to see some of these guys eliminated so early. You put too many lions in the same cage and eventually they'll maul each other.
So who else is gonna be watching MBAA top 8 on the live stream tomorrow afternoon (starts at 1 pm EDT / 10 am PDT)? There are a lot of strong, high-level players in top 8, and I guarantee the matches will be at least as hype as what we saw today in SSF4. The fast pace and added game mechanics will probably make it a bit hard to follow at times, although I'm sure Spooky and Bell will help clarify a lot of the differences from SSF4 in their commentating. On the other hand, the pace and action of the matches makes the game very entertaining to watch.
I'm really looking forward to MBAA, MvC2, and TvC in the early afternoon. (Canadian Psychochronic is representing in TvC top-8 in winners! To be honest I'm a bit jealous, but such is the price of not having the means to enter Evo. Regardless, I'm hoping he'll get really far, though I think he'll lose if his PTX runs into a half-decent counterpick like T.Blade, and if he refuses to switch to his non-PTX team. >_< )
On July 11 2010 13:38 sung_moon wrote: lordknight reppin EC in dat MBAA. no idea wtf aobut that game but lordknight pretty much takes all teh MBAA tournaments over here
needa c srk for mahvel brackets but hella laggy TT
On July 11 2010 13:27 zoLo wrote: In other news, 400+ viewing the Adon sub forums on SRK lol.
always nice when a brilliant new players shows off the potential of a character, especially when that potential is largely unrealized by most players
I think the hate for Adon is legacy hate. Pretty much immediately after SSF4's release when the preliminary tier lists came out, Adon was dead last. That was of course before anyone knew shit about the new characters. But people tend to blindly follow tier lists, so they continued to laugh at and deride Adon's potential. Now if you look at the new tier lists, Adon is actually in a decent spot. A lot of people though still expect him to be as scrubby as originally guessed. Hopefully this is a nice wake-up call for them.
I always have a very hard time fighting Adon online. Once I heard that his Jaguar Kick (the one you can do airborne, I think that's the name of it) was like -1 or -2 or something on block, I was in shock at how safe it was and the arc that it is capable of covering.
On July 11 2010 13:36 Bill307 wrote: So who else is gonna be watching MBAA top 8 on the live stream tomorrow afternoon (starts at 1 pm EDT / 10 am PDT)? There are a lot of strong, high-level players in top 8, and I guarantee the matches will be at least as hype as what we saw today in SSF4. The fast pace and added game mechanics will probably make it a bit hard to follow at times, although I'm sure Spooky and Bell will help clarify a lot of the differences from SSF4 in their commentating. On the other hand, the pace and action of the matches makes the game very entertaining to watch.
I'm really looking forward to MBAA, MvC2, and TvC in the early afternoon. (Canadian Psychochronic is representing in TvC top-8 in winners! To be honest I'm a bit jealous, but such is the price of not having the means to enter Evo. Regardless, I'm hoping he'll get really far, though I think he'll lose if his PTX runs into a half-decent counterpick like T.Blade, and if he refuses to switch to his non-PTX team. >_< )
I am so watching it.
I was part of the very early doujin game scene (EFZ/Melty/IaMP days) and I am very happy to see a game that started as the laughing stock of the FG community make it as a main event. Its good to see how the efforts of sp00ky, Bellreisa, Zar and the rest are bearing fruit.
On July 11 2010 13:38 sung_moon wrote: lordknight reppin EC in dat MBAA. no idea wtf aobut that game but lordknight pretty much takes all teh MBAA tournaments over here
There was a great hotel-room casual match a couple days ago between Lord Knight (who's probably top-3 in the US, from what I've seen) vs the Japanese player Garu.
I can't say MBAA will be hype for me because I'll have almost no idea what's going on. When I can follow the action and analyze it myself I get a lot more emotional.
On July 11 2010 13:38 sung_moon wrote: lordknight reppin EC in dat MBAA. no idea wtf aobut that game but lordknight pretty much takes all teh MBAA tournaments over here
There was a great hotel-room casual match a couple days ago between Lord Knight (who's probably top-3 in the US, from what I've seen) vs the Japanese player Garu.
Fast forward to 1:13:35. The whole match is incredible.
man bill i dont understand wtf is goin on but goddam mbaa/that match is crazy. everything combos i guess lol i only recognize kohaku cuz LK is usually the black kid who looks underage whopping ass with the maid wielding broom and hidden sword :p
edit: o bill my friend whos best friends with LK wanta know who u think gonna win in MBAA (or at least top 3?)
o yea i also know nero as the pale vampire looking dude with his coat and throws a sick zoo at u and the shiki brothers with the knives (sry for the terribad descriptions. plus these 3 chars might not even be in AA loool. sry for the choboness)
goddam how many chars in this game? like 20-30 chars and then each char has like 3 different moons 0.0.
Salty suite event run by Gootecks and Team Spooky. High steaks tournament with some big names, and everyone wanting to to money match Gamerbee. Maybe a run back of last year Aturo Vs Daigo and SoCal vs East coast 5v5.
I thought a lot more people would know GamerBee by now considering he's had 30 recorded XBL matches against Daigo on Youtube. In any case, for him to come out to his first US tournament (EVO no less) in front of that crowd and beat out Justin is amazing.
On July 11 2010 13:26 Trumpet wrote: I feel like everything I thought I knew in this world is a lie.
JWong missing punishes?
JWong doing random ultras!?
JWong with BAD BLOCKING!????
What has EG done to you JWong!?
This is worse than when vegita X lost to a button mashing thawk T_T
speaking of vegita-x, me and ssj george bush played marvel today... i have been practicing rogue/storm/tron on my own. and i played him with it today and ssj's reaction was "holy shit this explains EVERYTHING weird that vegita-x does with gief when we play online". his reaction was decidedly that the team is some serious bullshit despite being "low tier" (quotes because it has storm and tron).
On July 11 2010 13:46 Bill307 wrote: There was a great hotel-room casual match a couple days ago between Lord Knight (who's probably top-3 in the US, from what I've seen) vs the Japanese player Garu.
Fast forward to 1:13:35. The whole match is incredible.
man bill i dont understand wtf is goin on but goddam mbaa/that match is crazy. everything combos i guess lol i only recognize kohaku cuz LK is usually the black kid who looks underage whopping ass with the maid wielding broom and hidden sword :p
edit: o bill my friend whos best friends with LK wanta know who u think gonna win in MBAA (or at least top 3?)
o yea i also know nero as the pale vampire looking dude with his coat and throws a sick zoo at u and the shiki brothers with the knives (sry for the terribad descriptions. plus these 3 chars might not even be in AA loool. sry for the choboness)
goddam how many chars in this game? like 20-30 chars and then each char has like 3 different moons 0.0.
I can try to explain some stuff about Melty later: currently watching the Salty Suite Stream (which has over 3500 viewers right now: that's more than most tournaments, lol). I've only recently started getting into the game and the community, so my opinion doesn't mean much. But I'd guess top 3 will be: 1. Garu 2. LordKnight 3. Brandino/Kusanagi/Xie
All of the top-8 players that I've seen play look scary to face, but Garu and Lord Knight look the scariest and the highest-level. E.g. Garu was able to catch a lot of the other players with shields (basically parries), but LK was always conscious to avoid being predictable. I don't think he got shielded once in that casual match. They also main top-tier characters, so that helps.
3rd place is hard to predict. Brandino and Kusanagi seem like favourites, being in winners, but I've seen some really good play from Xie in the past, too.
Garu is the runaway favorite for first in Melty, he's one of the top in Japan and flew out for this. Kusanagi somehow beat him twice in the teams tournament today (in which Garu played as his own one man team vs all the other 3 man teams), and Brandino took one game from him in casuals - aside from that I don't think he's lost at all this weekend. He might drop a game or two again but it'd take a miracle for him to not win.
Past that... the winners bracket basically. LK and Kusanagi are both ridiculously strong, and Brandino is on fire this weekend. General opinion (aka bell and #mbaa) didn't favor Brandino to make top 8, but he's there anyway, playing better than expected (easy bracket notwithstanding), and he did show he can theoretically beat Garu! I don't really like Xie but anything's possible I guess.
Maybe, anyhow. Garu, like most Japanese players, is used to the arcade version and not entirely experienced with console changes. Brandino beat him by using F-Ciel, a character that was absolute trash in the arcade but buffed in console, and exploiting Garu's obvious lack of matchup knowledge there. Not only that, he beat H-Kohaku, which is actually one of Garu's alt characters and the other reason he looked touchable in the hotel stream Bill linked. For tournament play he's been running H-Tohno and possibly his old main, H-VSion.
Anyhow, MBAA is a really nice game and interested folks should definitely check out some of the recordings in Team Spooky's ustream archives!
On July 11 2010 17:58 jaymik wrote: wow huge money matches comin up.
Anyone watching right now at this time?
I believe money matches happening on sunday cause people are tired, but looks like they will be streamed.
Technically they are happening on Sunday. But they're happening right now. I'm too tired to stay up though: I'll just check them out on Team Spooky or Youtube later.
On July 11 2010 13:11 Bill307 wrote: The viewer count on the stream has been CRAZY, too. Over 22,000 viewers at the end of the day!
I remember talking to some nerds on the Devastation stream, and when someone asked about 09's viewers I guessed about 20-25k and was immediately BLASTED.
"LOL YEA RIGHT, 15K TOPPS"
and now 23k before even finals and up to like 17000 in pool play. Insane!
stream was actually at 31k, 22 on ustream, 9 on stickam
On July 11 2010 13:11 Bill307 wrote: The viewer count on the stream has been CRAZY, too. Over 22,000 viewers at the end of the day!
I remember talking to some nerds on the Devastation stream, and when someone asked about 09's viewers I guessed about 20-25k and was immediately BLASTED.
"LOL YEA RIGHT, 15K TOPPS"
and now 23k before even finals and up to like 17000 in pool play. Insane!
stream was actually at 31k, 22 on ustream, 9 on stickam
On July 11 2010 10:48 Judicator wrote: Sanford such a Marvel player lol.
going back and reading comments lol o lol'd at this. must've been when sanford accidentally paused when he was mashing for no reason lolol
this actually happened to me when i was mashing hailstorm on my friends custom stick. Thanks MadCatz for putting the pause on the back of the TE's!
and btw i enjoy watching tekken when its koreans who play. their movement just seems faster, smoother, and more calculated to me. hope there's a devin jin up there in top8
edit: anyway im up now so i guess ill root for LK's maid with the broom lolllll rep da EC LK
On July 12 2010 01:12 sung_moon wrote: and btw i enjoy watching tekken when its koreans who play. their movement just seems faster, smoother, and more calculated to me. hope there's a devin jin up there in top8
I missed it cause of playing hon with friends! Stream hasn't started for today yet it seems :S Chill, theres a link over at eventhubs.com or through shoryuken.com
Ok so, since Melty is coming on soon, here's a quick list of some (but not all) of its game mechanics that differ from SSF4. Hopefully this'll make it easier for you guys to follow what's going on.
Crescent, Half, and Full moon
Like Grooves in CvS2, these give the characters a few different normals, a few different specials, and a bunch of other differences. I'll mention some of the differences below.
Chains, Target Combos, and "Reverse Beat"
You know Juri's Ultra 1, where she can chain any weaker attack into any stronger attack? Every character in MBAA has this ability, so combos look a lot like Juri's U1 combos.
Crescent and Half moon characters also have "Reverse Beat", which allows them to chain stronger attacks back to weaker attacks as well! E.g. if someone blocks your heavy kick, you can chain it into a standing jab to cancel the recovery, allowing you to continue your pressure. The one restriction is that you cannot reverse beat to an attack you used earlier in your chain combo, e.g. if you start your combo with standing jab, then you cannot reverse beat into it until the chain ends.
Double Jumps and Air Dashes
Every character in this game can double jump and air dash. They can also super jump and super double jump. Most normals can be jump-cancelled on hit, so most combos end with a launcher followed by a brief air combo and an air throw.
Air Unblockables
Almost all ground-based moves in this game are air-unblockable. So as a rule of thumb, you can only airblock projectiles and other air moves.
EX Moves and Supers
EX moves in MBAA have the same kind of "super flash" or "super freeze" that you see in other games when someone does a super. They cost 100 meter. "Arc Drives" are the real supers in the game: generally, you can only do them when your meter fills completely and you go into Max (or Heat) mode.
Max, Heat, and Circuit Spark
Max mode: when Crescent or Full moon gets a full 300 meter, they enter Max mode and they can use EX moves and supers for free! After Max ends, you get back 100 or 200 meter.
Heat mode: your character slowly regains their red life, as long as they're not blocking or being hit. When Crescent moon enters Heat, it pushes the opponent away, so it's a useful get-off-me option. When Half moon gets a full 200 meter, they enter Heat mode instead of Max mode.
Circuit Spark: the "Burst" in this game. Uses your whole meter to break out of a combo. Can be done only when your meter fills up and you go into Max mode. Half moon circuit sparks automatically on hit when they're in Heat mode, a disadvantage of that moon.
Guard Bar
MBAA has a guard bar like CvS2 and BlazBlue. The more hits you block, the lower your guard bar goes. If you block too many hits and your guard bar reaches 0, your guard breaks and the opponent gets a free combo.
Shields (parrying), Dodges, and Bunkers (alpha counters)
Shielding is basically parrying in 3s, except if you miss, your guard bar becomes weaker (decreases faster) and you have some recovery frames. Like in 3s, you'll see things like characters empty jumping to bait a shield attempt: the punishment for missing a shield in that situation is very painful, so they're not used as frequently as 3s parries.
Dodging is exactly what it sounds like. It also weakens your guard bar if you miss (i.e. you dodge and the opponent doesn't do anything).
Bunkers are basically alpha counters. Usually this happens when a Half moon character is blocking: they'll cancel out of blockstun into an invincible attack, costing 100 meter.
On July 12 2010 02:13 kyarisan wrote: there isnt really any good footage of wong vs the zangief player but you can watch the set between gamerbee and j wong here
On July 12 2010 01:59 keV. wrote: I'm predicting Daigo > Gamer Bee in SSF4 finals. 3-1.
I duno man, on youtube they kept downloading each other and winning 4-5 in a row and then vice versa. Just depends whos day it is really.
Yea. Both have been absolutely rock solid. I couldn't believe how badly Gamer Bee cleaned up last night at the salty suite tournament.
Predictions:
Winners bracket: Daigo Umehara (Ryu) > Mike Ross (E. Honda) -Beast is too strong
Vance "Vangief" Wu (Zangief) > EG.Ricky Ortiz (Rufus) -If RickyO stays on Rufus, I've got Vangief. I'm confident that Jwong's Rufus is the best in the USA and we all saw what happened. I wouldn't be surprised to see a character switch from RickyO
Daigo Umehara (Ryu) > Vance "Vangief" Wu (Zangief) -Daigo has played against plenty of really good giefs in Japan and I think Vangief will just get boxed out all game.
Losers bracket: Henry Cen (E. Honda, Dhalsim) < GamerBee (Adon) -No way is Gamer Bee losing to either E. Honda or Dhalsim. You just can't turtle against him period and he took Arturo out so many times both as Seth and as Dhalsim last night.
Infiltration (Akuma, Juri) > Shizza (Chun-Li) - Maybe Shizza can beat Infiltration, but he plays a really intelligent Akuma and I have him taking this one. I don't think we will see a Juri switch, but it is possible. This one could really go either way.
GamerBee (Adon) > Infiltration (Akuma, Juri) - I think Adon is a bad match-up for Akuma. He can't mix up nearly as effectively because of Adon's insane recovery speed on so much of his stuff. I'm guessing that Infiltration will give Juri a go before he loses, not sure when. I don't think it is going to matter though. Infiltration's Juri has pulled out some remarkable wins, but like Neo he has been shaky at many points throughout.
I see Gamer Bee advancing after cleaning up the losers from winners with little difficulty. It would be really interesting to see Gamer Bee vs Vangief... Only thing I really have no idea about.
Here are some of the common pressure and mixup attempts you'll see in games. This should help a lot in understanding what people are doing.
Air Counterhits
If you score a counter hit in the air, even with a jab, you can juggle your opponent afterwards: they cannot recover until they land. You'll see this happening a lot.
Tech Punishing
In MBAA, your "quick-rise" or fast wake-up on the ground is called teching. The character looks like they bounce off the ground, usually bouncing to the left or right. Unlike SSF4, after you quick-rise you are vulnerable for a few frames before you can move, so people can get a free combo if they were expecting it. This is called tech-punishing.
Frame Traps and Stagger Strings
Same as in SSF4: you do a move, wait a sec, then do another move, leaving a 1-3 frame gap between your hits. If the opponent pressed a button, they get counterhit.
Stagger Strings are pressure strings with frame traps in them.
Whiff-Cancelling in Pressure Strings
Like I mentioned before, Crescent and Half moon can cancel their heavy attacks into light attacks to eliminate the long recovery. This can be very confusing for both the stream viewer and the opponent. E.g. you might see someone do a few hits into a blocked sweep, then cancel into a whiffed light attack, then do one of the following: - dash in for a throw - dash in to continue pressure - do another attack to counter-hit the opponent (frame trap) - instant airdash (airdash low to the ground) to continue pressure
High-Low Mixups
Many characters have overheads like in SSF4, but there is another high-low mixup that you'll see a lot.
When someone jumps in on you and does an air attack, after you block it your instinct is to start blocking low to continue blocking when they land. But in MBAA, they can double jump after the air attack, airdash, and do a second air attack: this happens so fast that it can be hard to react to it and block high again.
Another example: mixing up between an empty jump into a low or throw, and air-dashing at the last second to do a delayed air attack.
Cross-Ups
MBAA has an unusual cross-up protection: when your opponent jumps over you, you usually don't have to block backwards! If the opponent has their back to you in the air, then you can block their air attack in either direction.
As a result, you'll see 3 different kinds of cross-ups that avoid this protection:
1. Jump over their head, then airdash backwards over their head, basically crossing them up twice. In this situation, the attack has to be blocked from the front.
2. Jump over their head, then double-jump so that the character faces the opponent. Cross-up protection won't save you if your opponent is facing you.
2. Jump and land directly on top of a character on wake-up, so that you land on either the front side or the back side. Cross-up protection won't help you against ground attacks.
WOW, Mexican player Kusanagi comes out of nowhere and BEATS TOP JAPANESE PLAYER GARU! (2-1) Garu is now in the losers bracket, and he's the only Japanese player in top-8.
That smash bros argument has been beaten to death by GFAQs people, not sure about other communities like SRK (I don't care about smash to check SRK on it, I usually check there for Marvel or SFIV). Personally I don't think it is, but I really don't give a crap if they consider it one or not.
Bill, I used to remember (also when the stream mentioned) Arlieth getting mad hype for this game a long time back, I was wondering, what the hell happened to arlieth?
Edit: @islandsnake. You said it. Whenever I see a jump forward airdash back crossup hit I just leap off my seat )
Although LK might have more experience with this character, it seems like Garu is better at neutral since he knows the mirror matchup spacing better. :S
LK missed about half of his combos in the grand finals. Mentally broken. He's not gonna be happy about that... hopefully he can at least get a runback MM or something before Garu and Chelsea go back to Japan.
apologies for interrupting this awesome MBAA discussion going on, but I found an interesting post at SRK regarding the Salty Suite tourney and GamerBee.
"Yesterday Night, Team Spooky Held a stream and they did a money match tourney, $100 each, and 16 people entered. Gamerbee was fucking "Downloading" everyone and took everything. Last night, some people were giving him the name Gamer "Downloader" Bee. Funny, people were saying that Gamerbee couldn't beat Arturo's Rose, and he downloaded her as he did everyone else."
that is just awesome. Looking forward to see the Main Event later tonight.
On July 12 2010 04:13 jtbem wrote: what does "downloading" mean
"Downloading" your opponent means you learn their playing style and change your own playing style to counter theirs.
It also means you learn how to anticipate and counter their unique tricks and tactics, even if you've never seen them before.
Example: Justin Wong vs GamerBee: Justin Wong on at least 2 occasions did an EX messiah kick (blocked by GamerBee), FADC, dashed up, and instead of throwing like most players do, he did an instant air divekick to beat GamerBee's throw and got a combo out of it. So in the last round, when Justin Wong tried to do this a 3rd time, GamerBee jumped straight up instead as a counter to Justin Wong's divekick. GamerBee was able to combo off of this and that basically won him the match and the set.
Clockwork came here to the Philippines once. Was lucky enough to play him
Me and a friend were actually making fun of him at first because he was putting good matches, winning some but getting raped a lot often as well (Philippine marvel is at level 1 damage settings, boo. ), then he was like "He actually looks like clockwork, I remember an old video of him vs Genghis"
then after a few games I was like.. "Isn't that clockwork's colors?"
Needless to say, we approached him and he was, in fact clockwork. Had our pics taken with him as well. XD
I guess you're right. Although You'd probably see a lot more Santhraxes or Matrixes over Cables when paired with Storm/Sent there, (Or at least, that's what I think.)
Honestly, I fricking hate level 1 setting, it makes me feel as if Philippine marvel will never reach top potential with level 1 since its not standard. Although maybe its also just my bias that Sentinel isn't as scary here. Storm/Ironman scares the be-jeesus out of everyone and magneto's can run into commando's and cyclops's all day without care T_T
Missed a very nice match bill And yeah ski blew his voice in the first matches lol. Man I dont know why I have chat open in the stream so much trolling guess its fun
Yipes' resets are insane. Great DHC to kill magneto too
I think Crizzle should've just DHC'd to psylocke to kill Yipes' magneto, he would've had around 1.5 meters and would easily build it back to dhc to storm. >_<
I wonder how long I can keep chasing storm with normal jump lp air rush here before people figure out that that trick seems pretty good risk vs reward storm vs strider
On July 12 2010 05:04 myrmidon2537 wrote: I guess you're right. Although You'd probably see a lot more Santhraxes or Matrixes over Cables when paired with Storm/Sent there, (Or at least, that's what I think.)
Honestly, I fricking hate level 1 setting, it makes me feel as if Philippine marvel will never reach top potential with level 1 since its not standard. Although maybe its also just my bias that Sentinel isn't as scary here. Storm/Ironman scares the be-jeesus out of everyone and magneto's can run into commando's and cyclops's all day without care T_T
A lower damage setting than the default and tournament standard (which I think is 2?). So basically that hurts trap teams the most since they get so much damage from chip.
I would say it hurts sent based teams more than trap teams.
Chipdamage still does the same amount and it means that strider and such would survive a lot longer (in exchange for less damage when they connect, but their main source of damage, chip, is still pretty intact)
On July 12 2010 05:34 myrmidon2537 wrote: I would say it hurts sent based teams more than trap teams.
Chipdamage still does the same amount and it means that strider and such would survive a lot longer (in exchange for less damage when they connect, but their main source of damage, chip, is still pretty intact)
It ended the way it should have. Justin vs Sanford grand finals, Justin clawing his way out of loser's yet again and showing why he's the best ever. Only thing missing was the Dreamcasts and Happ sticks.
hmmm damn, kinda disappointing final compared to sanford vs wong gf @ season's beatings. Ton of clever shit though, was fun to watch.
I was really impressed with clockwork, sad how badly wong just ran him over though.
Also for the people randomly showing up in this thread and not in the fighting games thread, you're all bastards. And by that I mean please come join us in the other thread, you bastards. c:
Dogface (talking about the stage background): "These Servbots don't know how to handle the conflict."
rofl
I wish Psychochronic (from Ontario ) had used his Doronjo/Souki team instead against Marn. The giants just can't win against some characters. (They're also boring as hell to play as and to fight against, no offense to Psychochronic. )
Very nice stuff from KBeast and Kurasa. Their level of play is impressive. That comeback was clutch, too.
While I kinda wish one of the commentators would explain the game mechanics (since this game isn't very well known, like MBAA), Dogface more than makes up for it. <3
On July 12 2010 06:58 Bill307 wrote: Dogface is a GREAT commentator on point, but he needs an assist with strong game knowledge to complete the package, imo.
Yeah, Dogface reminds me of DjWheat a lot in that regard, both of them are good charismatic hosts and reasonably good at casting even when out of their element.
They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
Uh, most of these commentators are the players themselves. The fg community don't really have "professional" commentators since the community is mainly volunteer based. I.E. at NorCal Regionals, the commentators were well known local fg players who volunteered to commentate whenever they are not playing in their matches. I personally love most of these commentators such as Dogface, James Chen, S-kill, etc. If you expect professional commentators then just turn off the volume and just watch it silently.
Yea I don't know what you are talking about HeartOfTofu.
If you think someone like Seth K doesn't know what he is talking about and is stuck in the "grade school" mentality then you are just dumb. I'm not wild about some of the commentators, but you are drawing impossible comparisons. Professionalism isn't a desirable or necessary quality at ALL in most e-sport commentary.
TvC was indeed great. I was hoping for KBeast to win, but he looked like he didn't have a lot of tournament experience and so he made some bad decisions in the grand finals. Despite that, he pulled off some clutch shit despite being 1 game away from losing.
Haven't seen a lot of girls playing SSF4, but watching kayane yesterday was amazing. She is definitely gonna win the female tournament. Hopefully, EVO will have a female tournament next year and get choco to come out.
On July 12 2010 08:59 Shikyo wrote: Even though kayane is semi-good, she too still spams the same combo every time :/ It's so predictable, it hurts
u mean block strings? if u do teh same combos it doesnt matter if its predictable cuz its gonna all hit..... and she wasnt even being predictable.... she was doing a good job mixing up her tick throws and using c.RH and s.MP as pokes. both burnyourbra and kayane were legit thou
On July 12 2010 02:48 Bill307 wrote: WOW, Mexican player Kusanagi comes out of nowhere and BEATS TOP JAPANESE PLAYER GARU! (2-1) Garu is now in the losers bracket, and he's the only Japanese player in top-8.
old comment, but garu is not a top japanese player, if he's top theres probably another 2 dozen top japanese players
^ yea it was def. damdai. damdai plays HDR religiously. i remember during one tournament when akuma was allowed he had 2 guys straight up ragequit when he did meaty air FB demon
On July 12 2010 07:54 zoLo wrote: Uh, most of these commentators are the players themselves. The fg community don't really have "professional" commentators since the community is mainly volunteer based. I.E. at NorCal Regionals, the commentators were well known local fg players who volunteered to commentate whenever they are not playing in their matches. I personally love most of these commentators such as Dogface, James Chen, S-kill, etc. If you expect professional commentators then just turn off the volume and just watch it silently.
Yes, I'm very well aware that most of the commentators are players who volunteer to do the job. It's pretty clear when they walk on and off and switch off or start talking about their own matches while they're commentating on a match that's going on. There are a few commentators that are actually quite good, but the majority of them are pretty obnoxious. Maybe you like it because it makes you feel like you're in the middle of the event, but I personally hate it because I feel that there should be a certain maturity level present when you're doing a broadcast. EVO is one of the biggest fighting game tournaments in the world and I think it's a damned shame when just about every single person I try to get to watch it so I can show them fighting games at a high level can't sit through it because commentators are shouting like children, going completely off topic, or making dumb comments about what a player is wearing half the time.
On July 12 2010 07:54 keV. wrote: Yea I don't know what you are talking about HeartOfTofu.
If you think someone like Seth K doesn't know what he is talking about and is stuck in the "grade school" mentality then you are just dumb. I'm not wild about some of the commentators, but you are drawing impossible comparisons. Professionalism isn't a desirable or necessary quality at ALL in most e-sport commentary.
Did I say something specific about Seth Killian? No, I didn't. I was speaking about the commentators generally and while some of them are certainly good, a lot of them are not for the reasons the guy above stated: They're just players volunteering their time in-between matches. Yes, a good number of them do speak like they're stuck in a grade school mentality despite their age. It could be because that's just how they're used to expressing themselves when they're excited or something, but it doesn't change the fact that it often sounds like I'm back in an arcade full of children during my JHS days. I'm sure there are people like you that may appreciate that kind of commentary and atmosphere. I personally don't and yes, I will admit it's simply my own preference.
I do, however, believe that professionalism to a certain degree should always be a desirable quality at a major event. I'm not talking about having two old people in suits and ties sitting at a desk droning on and on. I'm talking about simple things like talking about the match that's going on rather than talking about Marvel vs. Capcom 2 during a Tatsunoko vs. Capcom match or having a discussion about a player's clothes or hair while there's action going on. How about simply having the same people at the table for a group of matches rather than constantly having people switching off? It wouldn't take THAT much effort to plan these things.
The fact is that these things are really distracting and take away from the match taking place. There are some matches where almost the entire match will go on without the commentators talking about it at all. Instead they'll be talking about something completely different as if the match at hand doesn't matter or they clearly don't care enough to talk about what's going on. I don't see how that does anything to help or add any credibility to an event. Big events like this are a great way to spread interest in competitive gaming. It's just a shame when that kind of opportunity is somewhat squandered by the lack of care given to the production quality of the stream. Sure, I don't care about people screaming when something amazing happens, but when every word out of your mouth is coming out at top volume from beginning to end, it gets pretty obnoxious after a while and it's really difficult on the ears...
And yes, I have spent a lot of time watching the stream with the volume down simply because the few tidbits of insight are not worth having to subject my ears to a guy screaming into his mic at top volume and having the sound constantly clipping and distorting due to it for the entire match... I know it's probably loud in that room, but the damned mic is positioned right in front of your mouth. You don't need to scream for us to hear you.
On July 12 2010 07:54 zoLo wrote: Uh, most of these commentators are the players themselves. The fg community don't really have "professional" commentators since the community is mainly volunteer based. I.E. at NorCal Regionals, the commentators were well known local fg players who volunteered to commentate whenever they are not playing in their matches. I personally love most of these commentators such as Dogface, James Chen, S-kill, etc. If you expect professional commentators then just turn off the volume and just watch it silently.
Yes, I'm very well aware that most of the commentators are players who volunteer to do the job. It's pretty clear when they walk on and off and switch off or start talking about their own matches while they're commentating on a match that's going on. There are a few commentators that are actually quite good, but the majority of them are pretty obnoxious. Maybe you like it because it makes you feel like you're in the middle of the event, but I personally hate it because I feel that there should be a certain maturity level present when you're doing a broadcast. EVO is one of the biggest fighting game tournaments in the world and I think it's a damned shame when just about every single person I try to get to watch it so I can show them fighting games at a high level can't sit through it because commentators are shouting like children, going completely off topic, or making dumb comments about what a player is wearing half the time.
On July 12 2010 07:54 keV. wrote: Yea I don't know what you are talking about HeartOfTofu.
If you think someone like Seth K doesn't know what he is talking about and is stuck in the "grade school" mentality then you are just dumb. I'm not wild about some of the commentators, but you are drawing impossible comparisons. Professionalism isn't a desirable or necessary quality at ALL in most e-sport commentary.
Did I say something specific about Seth Killian? No, I didn't. I was speaking about the commentators generally and while some of them are certainly good, a lot of them are not for the reasons the guy above stated: They're just players volunteering their time in-between matches. Yes, a good number of them do speak like they're stuck in a grade school mentality despite their age. It could be because that's just how they're used to expressing themselves when they're excited or something, but it doesn't change the fact that it often sounds like I'm back in an arcade full of children during my JHS days. I'm sure there are people like you that may appreciate that kind of commentary and atmosphere. I personally don't and yes, I will admit it's simply my own preference.
I do, however, believe that professionalism to a certain degree should always be a desirable quality at a major event. I'm not talking about having two old people in suits and ties sitting at a desk droning on and on. I'm talking about simple things like talking about the match that's going on rather than talking about Marvel vs. Capcom 2 during a Tatsunoko vs. Capcom match or having a discussion about a player's clothes or hair while there's action going on. How about simply having the same people at the table for a group of matches rather than constantly having people switching off? It wouldn't take THAT much effort to plan these things.
The fact is that these things are really distracting and take away from the match taking place. There are some matches where almost the entire match will go on without the commentators talking about it at all. Instead they'll be talking about something completely different as if the match at hand doesn't matter or they clearly don't care enough to talk about what's going on. I don't see how that does anything to help or add any credibility to an event. Big events like this are a great way to spread interest in competitive gaming. It's just a shame when that kind of opportunity is somewhat squandered by the lack of care given to the production quality of the stream. Sure, I don't care about people screaming when something amazing happens, but when every word out of your mouth is coming out at top volume from beginning to end, it gets pretty obnoxious after a while and it's really difficult on the ears...
And yes, I have spent a lot of time watching the stream with the volume down simply because the few tidbits of insight are not worth having to subject my ears to a guy screaming into his mic at top volume and having the sound constantly clipping and distorting due to it for the entire match... I know it's probably loud in that room, but the damned mic is positioned right in front of your mouth. You don't need to scream for us to hear you.
All i have to say is QQ dude. Fighting games are run in a grassroot tournament style and if youre annoyed that they are expressing energy and being entertaining all i have to say is get over it. Most people enjoy fighting commentators because of what you are complaining about. Also if you really think people playing fighting games should commentate in a mature manner i got to say you have never played a fighting game before. Its supposed to be hyped and high energy
On July 12 2010 12:01 Zona wrote: lol - one of the tekken devs verbally jabbing at one of the sf devs because capcom reserved one of their announcements for comiccon
ah i was wondering wut they were talking about for so long lol
Are you sure Myrmidon cause I seriously do not remember seeing the PC shooting at an angle. Shinkuu can be aimed because we all saw that and Seth said it could be.
I saw Proton cannon fire forwards and at an angle upwards.
Of course I just woke up (slept after Marvel 2) so I could be wrong, but I swear I saw it. Its either Proton cannon always fired at that one angle or something >_<
I am always confused about the people who are so critical about the commentary, it's great for me who doesn't understand any of it anyways. But then again, they could probably be saying random made up words and just acting excited and I'd like it.
On July 12 2010 13:19 Fatmatt2000 wrote: Awesome first game that Adam Sessler almost manged to ruin with worthless commentary.
I'm a newbie to street fighter, can you tell me what he's getting wrong with the commentary?
he doesn't belong there, seth does a fine job explaining concepts during match commentary -- adam is just trying to fit in and it's really not the best time, being the grand finals and all
I'm a newbie to street fighter, can you tell me what he's getting wrong with the commentary?
Hes not doing anything "wrong" its just we are used to having 2 people that know the game in and out on the mic and not one person who is there to ask newbie friendly questions and take a more supportive roll.
lol. The guy is just like when DJwheat or some other non sc playing commentators get on the mic. Nothing against the guy he just doesnt know jack and to people who play nonstop it shows =P
I dont hate, I just wish we could get ski / dogface / yipes / whoever back =)
On July 12 2010 13:19 Fatmatt2000 wrote: Awesome first game that Adam Sessler almost manged to ruin with worthless commentary.
I'm a newbie to street fighter, can you tell me what he's getting wrong with the commentary?
It's not that he's has almost no idea what's going on but he's asking good questions and catching on very quickly. There's nothing wrong with his commentary in my opinion.
Having seen Sessler ruin many things, this is one of the more harmless things I've seen him do. Seems fine to me. I'd rather have a different group, but at least Seth is holding it down.
On July 12 2010 13:59 eMbrace wrote: so when you get knocked to losers you can't come back right?
You can, but when you enter the grand finals on the loser's side you need to win two Bo5's to win, since the first win sends your opponent to join you in the loser's.
Adam isn't as bad as djwheat though, at least when adam doesn't know something he asks and provides some 'useful' commentary. DJwheat doesn't know much and makes even lamer commentary with that small pool of knowledge. Like Adam's observations after the Daigo vs Ricky Ortiz were smart, even if he doesn't know a lot about the game.
On July 12 2010 13:59 eMbrace wrote: so when you get knocked to losers you can't come back right?
THere is winners and losers if you get knocked into losers as long as you dont lose AGAIN you can play in the losers finals(which is whoever is the last alive in losers and the loser of the winners finals), and finally the Grand Finals.
On July 12 2010 13:59 Monokeros wrote: Adam isn't as bad as djwheat though, at least when adam doesn't know something he asks and provides some 'useful' commentary. DJwheat doesn't know much and makes even lamer commentary with that small pool of knowledge. Like Adam's observations after the Daigo vs Ricky Ortiz were smart, even if he doesn't know a lot about the game.
I STILL PREFER SKISONIC or just ANYONE else.
DJWheat plays and watches a lot of SC2 and has decent knowledge of the game. He also has a really good rapport with Day9 and Chill (who are the only guys I've heard him co-commentate with).
Sessler is both completely clueless about the game, event and players he's commentating on and has zero chemistry with his co-commentator.
He also still hasn't figured out that games are Bo3 rounds. I think they did a little side talk to tell him now, but really that's something he should've been told about beforehand.
On July 12 2010 13:59 Monokeros wrote: Adam isn't as bad as djwheat though, at least when adam doesn't know something he asks and provides some 'useful' commentary. DJwheat doesn't know much and makes even lamer commentary with that small pool of knowledge. Like Adam's observations after the Daigo vs Ricky Ortiz were smart, even if he doesn't know a lot about the game.
I STILL PREFER SKISONIC or just ANYONE else.
DJWheat plays and watches a lot of SC2 and has decent knowledge of the game. He also has a really good rapport with Day9 and Chill (who are the only guys I've heard him co-commentate with).
Sessler is both completely clueless about the game, event and players he's commentating on and has zero chemistry with his co-commentator.
DJwheat commentated at Devastation and commentary from him was basically useless haha but he's trying hard to further esports so I'm not gonna say anything negative about him anymore.
Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
it'd be fine if he actually knew how the matches worked.
On July 12 2010 14:32 TieN.nS) wrote: shout-outs to suits profiting off gaming communities and not putting in the slightest effort to pretend they give a fuck
The sponsorship money has to come from somewhere... Plus it's a nice touch that both Capcom and Namco Bandai sent a core dev for SF and Tekken to attend - the latter watched all the Tekken matches.
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
it'd be fine if he actually knew how the matches worked.
Yeah, I don't think he watched any of what went on before he was involved, and was not briefed on the format of the matches.
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
it'd be fine if he actually knew how the matches worked.
Yeah, I don't think he watched any of what went on before he was involved, and was not briefed on the format of the matches.
then he should have asked instead of assuming whatever he thought the format was was correct
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
it'd be fine if he actually knew how the matches worked.
Yeah, I don't think he watched any of what went on before he was involved, and was not briefed on the format of the matches.
It'd be horrific planning if he wasn't briefed at least. Maybe he's so out of touch with any sort of sports tournament he couldn't grasp the concept quickly? After all with many 1v1 or 2v2 sports (like tennis, etc) we have the concepts of sets, games, and matches.
On July 12 2010 14:32 TieN.nS) wrote: shout-outs to suits profiting off gaming communities and not putting in the slightest effort to pretend they give a fuck
The sponsorship money has to come from somewhere... Plus it's a nice touch that both Capcom and Namco Bandai sent a core dev for SF and Tekken to attend - the latter watched all the Tekken matches.
Of course I'm not talking about all of the sponsors. Much love to Mad Catz, Capcom, and Namco Bandai. YOU KNOW the ones I'm talking about. lol
It's honestly not level|up's fault, the internet at the venue was cutting out. Now, as far as being on stickam initially, I'm pretty sure that was G4's brilliant idea.
Oh well, at the end of the day I'm still really happy with how Ricky played. He was fantastic, really showed the beauty of playing smart and blocking.
Such a good mixture of perfect offense and defense always keeping Daigo on edge and baiting him into uppercuts, I'm just sad he couldn't finish it.
Close matches the whole though, great final to the tournament =)
Also: for those that dont play fighters much but watched this tournament, if you'd like any explanation of the way things happened or why a player would make a seemingly odd choice in a specific situation etc, stop by our lovely fighting game thread! We need some new discussions over there :>
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
Sess had absolutely ZERO knowledge about the game. He actually thought that rounds were set points. Seth Killian's commentary energy literally dropped to nothing whenever Seth would say things that are totally ignorant of the game. That man's had no business doing commentary for the main event for SSFIV, and it's unfortunate that his commentary really killed Seth's hype.
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
Does FOX put Hugh Laurie in the commentating booth when they show NFL games?
On July 12 2010 14:31 neohero9 wrote: Sess is there merely as a connect between the G4 audience and the SSF4 audience. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have deeper knowledge of the game considering the magnitude of the event and the extreme nuance of play at this level, and really his delivery style isn't fit for commentating (he's always a bit stuttery, not optimal). Think of him as the "big name" to G4 game fans, and he's essentially being used to further recognition of EVO to them.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if G4 has any screen personalities who are experts in fighting games.
Does FOX put Hugh Laurie in the commentating booth when they show NFL games?
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
S-kill's certainly the safest pick, incapable of offending anyone. :p Wish he'd just drop knowledge like everyone knows he can but he sticks to just explaining stuff for the casual viewer.
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
So god damn true. He's amazingly good. Can you really beat a: Developer, Producer, CR rep and high level player all in one? Pretty much commentary god.
On July 12 2010 14:52 Islandsnake wrote: So did they give away the golden stick on the stream? Or did they forget too I may of missed the giveaway
they gave a gold TE away in a raffle to the crowd. it was incredibly akward just watching some hobo walk up to the stage, take the stick, and leave with no noise from the crowd.
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
So god damn true. He's amazingly good. Can you really beat a: Developer, Producer, CR rep and high level player all in one? Pretty much commentary god.
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
So god damn true. He's amazingly good. Can you really beat a: Developer, Producer, CR rep and high level player all in one? Pretty much commentary god.
Isn't Seth just a community guy for Capcom USA?
Correct, he's the NA community manager for Capcom. He is also a high-level player though and I don't know Capcom takes his feedback in for development. So while he isn't a producer level, I'd say he had influence in the development of SSF4.
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
So god damn true. He's amazingly good. Can you really beat a: Developer, Producer, CR rep and high level player all in one? Pretty much commentary god.
Isn't Seth just a community guy for Capcom USA?
His official title is community manager, but he has stated on multiple occasions that his duties include a bit of development. He's also an OG traveling arcade hustler. Only thing I'm not sure about is producer, but I remember hearing that somewhere. Could be wrong.
Evo was fun. I didn't stay to watch finals because I hate watching people play fighting games, especially if I'm not cheering for anyone.
I caught some of the semifinals and man, it's like these guys have never seen an SF match in their life. If Daigo played and did an uppercut on a jump-in the entire crowd would go nuts. =) I could not get hype at all, hahah. I think there was one match when Tokido played a Ken, Ken could've been chipped to death, but Tokido was in the corner. Tokido did hurricane kick to get out, Ken did a U2 that had no chance of hitting, but the entire crowd was like "WOWTUIOWUOSFOIWAHOHVHASPOFGW.... awwww."
Except for Shizza, nobody I know personally made it to semi-finals, which was disappointing. I think we had one guy that was 1 game away from hitting semis.
Also in a strange twist of fate, I met up with one of my friends from high school who moved out to Vegas to go eat lunch. He saw our other friend's brother passing by. It turns out that our friend's brother was HF Blade and he just finished getting 4th in the MB tournament. I had no idea...
On July 12 2010 15:15 kainzero wrote: Evo was fun. I didn't stay to watch finals because I hate watching people play fighting games, especially if I'm not cheering for anyone.
I caught some of the semifinals and man, it's like these guys have never seen an SF match in their life. If Daigo played and did an uppercut on a jump-in the entire crowd would go nuts. =) I could not get hype at all, hahah. I think there was one match when Tokido played a Ken, Ken could've been chipped to death, but Tokido was in the corner. Tokido did hurricane kick to get out, Ken did a U2 that had no chance of hitting, but the entire crowd was like "WOWTUIOWUOSFOIWAHOHVHASPOFGW.... awwww."
Except for Shizza, nobody I know personally made it to semi-finals, which was disappointing. I think we had one guy that was 1 game away from hitting semis.
Also in a strange twist of fate, I met up with one of my friends from high school who moved out to Vegas to go eat lunch. He saw our other friend's brother passing by. It turns out that our friend's brother was HF Blade and he just finished getting 4th in the MB tournament. I had no idea...
it's evo, a lot is on the line so every little thing is going to get some noise. i watched a lot of the stream and for the most part the crowed acted pretty smart with the cheering. the game is still a bit new and the new ultras have some randomn moments still left in them -- like no one knew why the korean akuma was picking ultra 2 against rufus until it countered the messiah.
anyways, i only get excited over fighting game tournys if an underdog character is doing well (Adon), and if Daigo is in the finals =D
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
let me guess, you've never actually been to a fighting game tournament this isn't esports where we have sponsors (i mean now evo, and like 4 players do), we just show up... enter the tournament... moneymatch people (oh i'm sorry have a "2-man tournament"), take they money, and everyone gets fucking hype. people screaming getting hype for their player from their region, the player from their hometown, the player who plays their character, whatever. it is about pride, and the expectation is that you are intelligent enough to know what is going on, because if you don't the explanation would take longer than the match. you can see what is happening on the screen. djwheat's "professional" commentary is trash because he says what is happening on the screen. "oh look at that 5 hit combo". oh yeah, look at it. we can fucking see it, we don't need you to point it out for us, we are not morons. the streams are first and foremost for us, the fighting game community
in essence, we, as a community, don't care about you and your perceived "maturity", and the large majority of us don't WANT "professionalism", "maturity", esports or sponsorships. we want good competition, a good community, tournaments anyone can go to and anyone can enter. stream watchers should have no say about how we do or act because you aren't a part of who we are
On July 12 2010 14:22 cuppatea wrote: DJWheat plays and watches a lot of SC2 and has decent knowledge of the game. He also has a really good rapport with Day9 and Chill (who are the only guys I've heard him co-commentate with).
Sessler is both completely clueless about the game, event and players he's commentating on and has zero chemistry with his co-commentator.
so you mean like the times that djwheat commentated at devastation
On July 12 2010 14:34 keV. wrote: I believe Khan put together some MAHVEL money matches.
there better be vids
gonna be f5ing preppy's site in the days to come like a madman
On July 12 2010 14:43 Chill wrote: That Capcom commentator is the best commentator for video games I've ever heard.
heh @ calling him "capcom commentator" you know he wrote "domination 101" http://shoryuken.com/f176/ (those were much different times back then when he wrote those though he has changed a lot in the opinions he voices because now he has to be all friendly b/c he works for capcom)
though funny thing is that he isn't entirely aware on sf4's strategies, for example more than once daigo did that to ricky and s-kill said "nice guess dp"
EVO is the type of event that makes me really want to get into fighters. But I feel like if I try to pick up SSF 4 right now another one will come out before im even average .
On July 12 2010 17:03 Serpico wrote: EVO is the type of event that makes me really want to get into fighters. But I feel like if I try to pick up SSF 4 right now another one will come out before im even average .
SSF4 will be the last Street Fighter for a while, so it will remain relevant for the foreseeable future. Most current fighting games don't play anything like SSF4 (SSF2THDR being the closest), so even new releases won't draw away all the player base.
The console release of BlazBlue: Continuum Shift is coming this month or sometime soon if you'd rather learn that. But other than BBCS, the next release won't be until Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in spring 2011, or possibly King of Fighters 13 sometime next year.
Somebody please correct me if I'm forgetting something I shouldn't be.
edit: about Seth Killian commentary and option selects, I thought he was just trying to minimize the technical jargon for the sake of the G4/general audience?
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
let me guess, you've never actually been to a fighting game tournament this isn't esports where we have sponsors (i mean now evo, and like 4 players do), we just show up... enter the tournament... moneymatch people (oh i'm sorry have a "2-man tournament"), take they money, and everyone gets fucking hype. people screaming getting hype for their player from their region, the player from their hometown, the player who plays their character, whatever. it is about pride, and the expectation is that you are intelligent enough to know what is going on, because if you don't the explanation would take longer than the match. you can see what is happening on the screen. djwheat's "professional" commentary is trash because he says what is happening on the screen. "oh look at that 5 hit combo". oh yeah, look at it. we can fucking see it, we don't need you to point it out for us, we are not morons. the streams are first and foremost for us, the fighting game community
in essence, we, as a community, don't care about you and your perceived "maturity", and the large majority of us don't WANT "professionalism", "maturity", esports or sponsorships. we want good competition, a good community, tournaments anyone can go to and anyone can enter. stream watchers should have no say about how we do or act because you aren't a part of who we are
This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
Obviously the community is trying to reach a wider audience, that is why they put in Seth K and that G4 guy at the end of the night but for players it is boring as hell to listen to. The commentary this weekend was a mixed bag, obviously due to the constant rotation across different games; but the general consensus is that the best commentators are the ones that are high level players themselves. I enjoy listening to Seth K commentate, but he really does have to be paired with someone who knows the nuances of the game.
What they need to do is do what the UFC did, and put in a guy who is professional and good at speaking (Seth K / Mike Goldberg), and pair him up with a guy who knows his shit (Joe Rogan / whoever). Then Seth asks questions like 'Why did player A do this instead of that', and the other guy explains it for all the newer players/random viewers.
As for the people who think that trash-talking doesn't belong in major tournaments - it's a game where the goal is to beat the shit out of your opponent. Maybe for someone who isn't familiar with the scene it seems disrespectful and unnecessary, but it really is what makes the community what it is. Rivalries between players and cities are really what fuels us and what makes us put in those countless hours playing the game, and what motivates us to make that shitty 8 hour drive to tournaments.
On July 12 2010 07:20 HeartOfTofu wrote: They REALLY need to hire some regular professional commentators next time. Preferably people that don't sound like they're stuck in a grade school mentality, blurting out stupid comments and constantly going off topic. EVO's come a long way, but the quality (or lack thereof) of professionalism and production shows that it's still got a long way to go... Despite the world class players, I could not get anybody I know to watch these streams with me simply because they were turned off by the loud, childish commentary to the point where they couldn't take it seriously as a world-class event...
While I don't argue that the level of immaturity certainly reflects the majority of the fighting game community, I don't understand why this has to carry over into major events. People talk trash and say stupid crap when you play basketball on the schoolyard court, but despite this, you don't see this kind of mentality cross over into the commentary for any serious basketball tournament or competition. Leave that crap at the arcades and local meets...
On the bright side, they've at least gotten rid of most of the swearing from the stream and the games so far have been very good as always...
let me guess, you've never actually been to a fighting game tournament this isn't esports where we have sponsors (i mean now evo, and like 4 players do), we just show up... enter the tournament... moneymatch people (oh i'm sorry have a "2-man tournament"), take they money, and everyone gets fucking hype. people screaming getting hype for their player from their region, the player from their hometown, the player who plays their character, whatever. it is about pride, and the expectation is that you are intelligent enough to know what is going on, because if you don't the explanation would take longer than the match. you can see what is happening on the screen. djwheat's "professional" commentary is trash because he says what is happening on the screen. "oh look at that 5 hit combo". oh yeah, look at it. we can fucking see it, we don't need you to point it out for us, we are not morons. the streams are first and foremost for us, the fighting game community
in essence, we, as a community, don't care about you and your perceived "maturity", and the large majority of us don't WANT "professionalism", "maturity", esports or sponsorships. we want good competition, a good community, tournaments anyone can go to and anyone can enter. stream watchers should have no say about how we do or act because you aren't a part of who we are
This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
Stunt it how? What you saw is the community, it's hype, it's rowdy, it's salty, it's crazy. That's the arcade scene. People yell and scream. It's great. Turn off potential sponsors how? Just because that particular scene is apparently too exciting for you doesn't mean the sponsors view it the same. Considering the creator of both Tekken and SF were both there in person and were really excited by the scene's overall energy at Evo says otherwise to what you just posted.
Secondly, you complain about the casters, what do you want them to say? They were pretty good mixing color and technical stuff, they also did a good job balancing game lingo and explaining it. You have some arbitrary sense of maturity and professionalism. These casters did a great job and I hope they keep it up and Evo does not adopt some bullshit cookie cutter casters like you see in professional sports these days.
On July 12 2010 17:03 Serpico wrote: EVO is the type of event that makes me really want to get into fighters. But I feel like if I try to pick up SSF 4 right now another one will come out before im even average .
edit: about Seth Killian commentary and option selects, I thought he was just trying to minimize the technical jargon for the sake of the G4/general audience?
That was my thought too. G4 was recording the final match so Seth didn't want to get bogged down too much in technical information that has no meaning to the average viewer. I do wonder though how many average fighting game players watching live or on the stream are aware of option selects, because when Mike Ross fought Gamerbee I'm pretty sure his nj.hk was being option selected into c.lp or dp but nobody seemed to mention it then, either. Maybe the commentators just aren't aware of Adon's possible OS's but that sure looked like one to me.
Seth is definitely my favorite commentator though, and I'm sure he's quite aware of the various strategies that high level players employ.
On July 12 2010 17:35 InToTheWannaB wrote:This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
First of all, did you even watch the Evo stream this weekend? Was there even ONE case of "having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream"? Aside from the SSF4 top 8, all of the commentators this weekend did a great job, and they did it without cursing or being offensive.
Second, every game community NEEDS to have strict limits on what they are and are NOT willing to concede to gain sponsorship. What's the point of being sponsored if the game is only half as fun to play or watch as it was before? The community is always the most important thing, because without the community there is nothing. Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them. But when they start being unreasonable, communities need to man-up and say NO: we don't need you to have fun and become more popular: we're not going to run a crappy event just to gain your money.
It's like dating: if you're desperate for girls and are willing to do anything for them, then people are going to take advantage of you and while you may get the girl, you'll be much less happy than you were before.
IMO, there need to be limits on how bad the commentary can be. Imagine all big events had to be commentated like the SSF4 top-8: a random guy from sponsor X, plus an experienced player who is forced to dumb-down his commentary for people who only care about watching a fight. Both of them commentating with no hype or energy in their voices. Not only would this suck for us, but the game would actually become LESS popular, because the "fans" you gain from having commentary-for-idiots would not replace the fans and future players you lose from not having funny, exciting, and informative commentary.
And then there are the fanbase demographics.
Look at how many people posted here commenting on how the commentators explained things for them. We are all gamers who enjoy seeing the strategies and mindgames involved in competitive gaming, along with the action and intensity. Contrast that to the audience the G4 commentary was aimed at: random people who have no interest in the thinking behind the game. Now, I think it's obvious which of these demographics we'd like to draw our fans from, and therefore which demographic our commentary should be aimed at.
Lastly, games are supposed to be fun. Tournaments are supposed to be fun. For 99.9% of us, sponsorship is beneficial only as long as it makes things more fun. Would I give up the fun and exciting atmosphere of today's FG events in exchange for a 1 in 1000 chance of earning big money by playing practicing 80 hours a week? Definitely not.
On July 12 2010 21:24 DBunny wrote: As for the people who think that trash-talking doesn't belong in major tournaments - it's a game where the goal is to beat the shit out of your opponent. Maybe for someone who isn't familiar with the scene it seems disrespectful and unnecessary, but it really is what makes the community what it is. Rivalries between players and cities are really what fuels us and what makes us put in those countless hours playing the game, and what motivates us to make that shitty 8 hour drive to tournaments.
+1
Some of the things we don't have or ban if it happens: - People getting into fistfights. - People screaming at each other with hate and rage. - People destroying stage or event equipment (as opposed to their own sticks ). - People getting shitfaced and causing problems such as the above.
I think there are good, sane limits on how far the real disrespect is allowed to go.
And even when real jerks do show up, nobody likes them. So a guy might piss you off by being a dick after he beats you, but then you talk to other guys at the event and realize everyone who's met him thinks he's a dick. Then you feel a lot better. It's justice, basically.
(Contrast that to elementary school or high school, where you can wind up with assholes who are popular, so other people join him in being an asshole instead of siding against him. That shit doesn't fly with us.)
Besides, like DBunny said, most of the "disrespect" is just competitive rivalry, not "I hate you."
The community as a whole is much more mature than an average group of kids.*
(* may not apply to all Smash Bros. Brawl communities, which really can be an average group of kids )
(Btw DBunny, you're not the same person as drunkenbunny, are you? I thought you were at first, but then I ran into him recently and was confused 'cause he didn't look anything like you. )
Can anyone point me to the Tekken grand finals? I looked on the youtube and I've seen a few fights but none after that, something happened to the camera work of the finals? Although...watching Bryan and Bob's and Lars'...shame that Lei got knocked out early Might have to start playing T6 again and bust some Jin, get my own style going
actually that's a good idea...never really did play T6 online much. I got to Warrior rank on T5 until I got scared about losing my rank and stopped playing. Beat a Raijin once too. YE YE YE
Can anyone point me to the Tekken grand finals? I looked on the youtube and I've seen a few fights but none after that, something happened to the camera work of the finals? Although...watching Bryan and Bob's and Lars'...shame that Lei got knocked out early Might have to start playing T6 again and bust some Jin, get my own style going
actually that's a good idea...never really did play T6 online much. I got to Warrior rank on T5 until I got scared about losing my rank and stopped playing. Beat a Raijin once too. YE YE YE
Sadly the tekken online in tekken 6 is complete crap and pretty laggy. It's only worth playing if you have a group of friends going on, or have your own arcade scen nearby.
Here are the links to the games I found for the T6 GF
You can also watch the devastation t6 finals(not evo, but great nevertheless) on djwheat's streaming site: http://djwheat.blip.tv/
Have fun
Edit: I just watched the finals. And I recommend against watching the grand finals, complete and total rape, watch the deva2010 games on djwheat which are much better. And check out jon747 vods of tekken crash on youtube.
On July 12 2010 17:35 InToTheWannaB wrote:This attitude the fighting game community has is fascinating to me. Why would you ever want to stunt the growth of your own game, community, and Esports in general? Don't you want these fantastic players to maybe one day earn a living for what they are great at? Don't you want your community and game to reach a wider audience, so it can grow?
I think people geting hype and screaming is great, but having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream will turn off potential sponsors. Its just seems very counterproductive to everything all gaming communitys should be working towards. Not to mention that people in suits and ties tend to lump us all together. So when the fighting game community turns off any sponsors it hurts us all.
First of all, did you even watch the Evo stream this weekend? Was there even ONE case of "having the caster and players acting like jack asses over the stream"? Aside from the SSF4 top 8, all of the commentators this weekend did a great job, and they did it without cursing or being offensive.
Second, every game community NEEDS to have strict limits on what they are and are NOT willing to concede to gain sponsorship. What's the point of being sponsored if the game is only half as fun to play or watch as it was before? The community is always the most important thing, because without the community there is nothing. Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them. But when they start being unreasonable, communities need to man-up and say NO: we don't need you to have fun and become more popular: we're not going to run a crappy event just to gain your money.
It's like dating: if you're desperate for girls and are willing to do anything for them, then people are going to take advantage of you and while you may get the girl, you'll be much less happy than you were before.
IMO, there need to be limits on how bad the commentary can be. Imagine all big events had to be commentated like the SSF4 top-8: a random guy from sponsor X, plus an experienced player who is forced to dumb-down his commentary for people who only care about watching a fight. Both of them commentating with no hype or energy in their voices. Not only would this suck for us, but the game would actually become LESS popular, because the "fans" you gain from having commentary-for-idiots would not replace the fans and future players you lose from not having funny, exciting, and informative commentary.
And then there are the fanbase demographics.
Look at how many people posted here commenting on how the commentators explained things for them. We are all gamers who enjoy seeing the strategies and mindgames involved in competitive gaming, along with the action and intensity. Contrast that to the audience the G4 commentary was aimed at: random people who have no interest in the thinking behind the game. Now, I think it's obvious which of these demographics we'd like to draw our fans from, and therefore which demographic our commentary should be aimed at.
Lastly, games are supposed to be fun. Tournaments are supposed to be fun. For 99.9% of us, sponsorship is beneficial only as long as it makes things more fun. Would I give up the fun and exciting atmosphere of today's FG events in exchange for a 1 in 1000 chance of earning big money by playing practicing 80 hours a week? Definitely not.
(Edit: my posts are about to go over 9000. )
Ahhh see this makes me want to bang my head into a wall. You make it sound like a sponsor requesting no one curses, or that commentators act in a professional manner at all times on stream is a unreasonable request. One that you may or may not follow anyway because "We don't need the sponsors. No one going tell us how to run our tournys!". There is a reason the fighting game community is the oldest competitive gaming community around, but one of the least sponsored. Its because YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! Sponsors don't want to deal with any type of controversy and you guy are the riskiest community to sponsor by far.
Also you make it sound like if you get sponsors it will somehow kill the fun of the game. You can still have your community run events. Where you can curse and act like a fool on the mic. Then you can have your sponsored tournys where you are there just to compete, win the cash, and go home. That's what every other community does and it seems to work out well for us. More tournaments can only help. No matter how "bad" the tourney is run, more is always better.
Also having a "noob" commentator there to explain things for new viewers is a proven formula. Poker being the closest thing on TV to competitive gaming is the best example. While the commentator explaining the rules and basic strategies of poker every show pisses off the hardcore fan. It helps pull the causal fans into the game. The hardcore fans are going to bitch, but they are not going to stop watching. That's why they are the hardcore fans. If you want a game to grow, get used to that casting formula because its what works.
As for the players getting that extra 1/1000 chance at winning some money for all the practicing they do. I don't know, how about we try instead to get enough sponsors that maybe one day you can have a league. Where players earn a salary regardless of what place they finish in any individual tournament. Sounds fun to me.
On July 13 2010 04:21 InToTheWannaB wrote:Ahhh see this makes me want to bang my head into a wall. You make it sound like a sponsor requesting no one curses, or that commentators act in a professional manner at all times on stream is a unreasonable request.
... Wow. Just wow.
First of all, I said the exact opposite of that in my post:
On July 13 2010 01:34 Bill307 wrote: Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them.
Every time I referred to bad commentary, I explicity used the SSF4 top 8 as an example, while I used the rest of Evo as an example of great commentary that is both professional and cursing-free.
I asked at the start of my post if you had even listened to the Evo commentary besides the top-8. Now, I'm sure you didn't and that you have no idea what you are talking about. The entire Evo commentary had to adhere to certain standards because Evo is already sponsored by a number of companies. The SSF4 top-8 is a special case because it had extra requirements for G4 and because it was awful as a result.
Nothing personal, but I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because I feel like it'd be a waste of my time.
On July 13 2010 01:34 Bill307 wrote: Lastly, games are supposed to be fun. Tournaments are supposed to be fun. For 99.9% of us, sponsorship is beneficial only as long as it makes things more fun. Would I give up the fun and exciting atmosphere of today's FG events in exchange for a 1 in 1000 chance of earning big money by playing practicing 80 hours a week? Definitely not. (Edit: my posts are about to go over 9000. )
sorry for snipping your post bill but this pretty much summed it up lol also rewatching some of the finals and wow i didnt realize how bad adam sessler is. guess since i don't have g4 i don't realize who adam was, but i guess ill cut the guy a break
btw with seth being there and g4 broadcasting this, it just means all the more exposure to the FG community
edit: also amazed at how well ricky played in the finals. such patient blocking. i lol'd a lil when ricky ran over to justin and tried to hug him after beating infiltration haha Hello Kitty Manbag FIGHTING
I watched probably 50% of the entire stream and had the stream on the entire time so that I could listen to the audio while doing other things around the house. I can say I only heard one profanity the entire time, and it was by UltraDavid who was a guest commentator. He corrected himself a few seconds later and seemed apologetic for making a mistake.
The commentary was very professional the entire tournament. It wasn't until the Top 8 SSFIV where you had a commentator with zero knowledge of the game that the commentary became unprofessional.
Well, to be fair, I think that a large part of why the SSF4 top-8 commentary was so bad was Sessler specifically and not G4/sponsorship/appealing to average people/whatever. It was truly offensive how little he prepared and how badly he interacted with s-kill. Any professional sportscaster who knows nothing about video games could skim through a page of notes and do much better. You can cut somebody some slack for not knowing any nuances of the game, but not having the respect or professionalism to prepare at all...
Sessler's awesome "omg did he get a perfect or not?" analysis and "now they're tied 2-to-2" play-by-play was legendary.
On July 13 2010 05:47 Myrmidon wrote: Well, to be fair, I think that a large part of why the SSF4 top-8 commentary was so bad was Sessler specifically and not G4/sponsorship/appealing to average people/whatever. It was truly offensive how little he prepared and how badly he interacted with s-kill. Any professional sportscaster who knows nothing about video games could skim through a page of notes and do much better. You can cut somebody some slack for not knowing any nuances of the game, but not having the respect or professionalism to prepare at all...
Sessler's awesome "omg did he get a perfect or not?" analysis and "now they're tied 2-to-2" play-by-play was legendary.
Honestly I would just be happy if the stream was just working fine. The commentators were doing fine in my opinion. Seth Killian was pretty funny at times in his commentary.
Honestly, I'm embarassed by the fact that the part of Evo being shown on G4 is the part with by far the worst commentary.
I have no doubt that the usual SSF4 commentary team would have been far more enjoyable for everyone.
I realize Sessler was there partly to represent the viewers who don't know anything about fighting games. But he doesn't need to be on the stream the entire time. They could explain basic concepts like lifebars or rounds before the top 8 started. And they could bring him on in-between sets and that'd give him a chance to ask the "newbie questions" that came to mind during the previous set. But during the games themselves, a commentator like Keits or James Chen (or Skisonic, if he still had his voice ) could have contributed a LOT more to the commentary than Sessler did.
On July 13 2010 05:55 lac29 wrote: Yeah, the commentary could have been much worse. As a newbie to fighting games I thought it was alright in general.
If you only saw the SSF4 top 8, and not the rest of the event, then you really missed out. The commentary for the rest of the event was a LOT better. Lots of people said they learned a lot about fighting games from those other commentators (i.e. excluding the SSF4 top 8 commentary, which was actually much less informative, let alone funny or exciting).
On July 13 2010 04:21 InToTheWannaB wrote:Ahhh see this makes me want to bang my head into a wall. You make it sound like a sponsor requesting no one curses, or that commentators act in a professional manner at all times on stream is a unreasonable request.
... Wow. Just wow.
First of all, I said the exact opposite of that in my post:
On July 13 2010 01:34 Bill307 wrote: Sponsors can make requests, like run this tournament on PS3 only or on Xbox only, or avoid cursing on the stream, and if they don't interfere then it's good to honour them.
Every time I referred to bad commentary, I explicity used the SSF4 top 8 as an example, while I used the rest of Evo as an example of great commentary that is both professional and cursing-free.
I asked at the start of my post if you had even listened to the Evo commentary besides the top-8. Now, I'm sure you didn't and that you have no idea what you are talking about. The entire Evo commentary had to adhere to certain standards because Evo is already sponsored by a number of companies. The SSF4 top-8 is a special case because it had extra requirements for G4 and because it was awful as a result.
Nothing personal, but I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because I feel like it'd be a waste of my time.
I'm not talking about this evo cast. Do you see in any of my post me talking about this evo cast in particular? No, I'm talking about the fight game community attitude towards sponsorship and the way they present themself in general. Hell, you guys have community leaders go on LO3, and the way they talk makes it sound as if sponsors are the enemy.
On July 13 2010 05:55 lac29 wrote: Yeah, the commentary could have been much worse. As a newbie to fighting games I thought it was alright in general.
If you only saw the SSF4 top 8, and not the rest of the event, then you really missed out. The commentary for the rest of the event was a LOT better. Lots of people said they learned a lot about fighting games from those other commentators (i.e. excluding the SSF4 top 8 commentary, which was actually much less informative, let alone funny or exciting).
I actually saw a lot ... lots of the 32 all the way up to the final. And yeah you're right ... the top 8 onwards wasn't as good as the rest. And I did think "doh" that guy who said it was tied 2-2 was pretty terribad (he sounded kinda drunk).
On July 13 2010 05:56 Bill307 wrote: Honestly, I'm embarassed by the fact that the part of Evo being shown on G4 is the part with by far the worst commentary.
I have no doubt that the usual SSF4 commentary team would have been far more enjoyable for everyone.
I realize Sessler was there partly to represent the viewers who don't know anything about fighting games. But he doesn't need to be on the stream the entire time. They could explain basic concepts like lifebars or rounds before the top 8 started. And they could bring him on in-between sets and that'd give him a chance to ask the "newbie questions" that came to mind during the previous set. But during the games themselves, a commentator like Keits or James Chen (or Skisonic, if he still had his voice ) could have contributed a LOT more to the commentary than Sessler did.
To be fair, Sessler only broadcasted the final match so it's not like he dragged down the entirety of the Top 8 (and I'd argue that some of those matches were quite entertaining, commentary included). In addition, he's the host of X-Play, so from the show's perspective, he needs to have some kind of persistent presence throughout the segment. The real shame is of course that his role as a co-commentator requires that he participate regularly, but he had nothing worthwhile to contribute. I agree that he could have done some independent research or simply bow out of co-commentating altogether and allow some of the other commentators to take over. If anything, his questions before and during the match should have been more broad and intelligent to better familiarize average viewers with the game. There were several different alternatives that G4 could have used that would have been preferred to what actually happened, but what's done is done =(
Adam Sessler is a cool guy, I met him at WCG 2004 and he really is into games, but I don't know if his ignorance in SF4 was feigned for the attempted benefit of the audience or genuine. The fact that he didn't know some arguably simple concepts that needed no explanation was insulting to me.
On July 13 2010 06:00 InToTheWannaB wrote:I'm not talking about this evo cast. Do you see in any of my post me talking about this evo cast in particular? No, I'm talking about the fight game community attitude towards sponsorship and the way they present themself in general. Hell, you guys have community leaders go on LO3, and the way they talk makes it sound as if sponsors are the enemy.
So you entered a topic about Evo, where we were just mentioning how bad the casting was for the SSF4 top 8 grand finals, and made a post about unprofessional commentary, referring to apparently other events besides the Evo in question.
Alright then. Moving on...
On July 13 2010 04:21 InToTheWannaB wrote: Also you make it sound like if you get sponsors it will somehow kill the fun of the game. You can still have your community run events. Where you can curse and act like a fool on the mic. Then you can have your sponsored tournys where you are there just to compete, win the cash, and go home. That's what every other community does and it seems to work out well for us. More tournaments can only help. No matter how "bad" the tourney is run, more is always better.
The fighting game community is not a bunch of loners.
We don't go to tournaments to win money: the hotel fees and the gas / flight cost will always far outweigh any gains, except for a small handful of people (like Justin Wong). We go for the atmosphere, for playing other people, and for meeting friends and others from across the continent. Obviously you don't understand this at all.
A poorly run tournament always hurts the community. This covers everything from scumbag sponsors who promise prizes and then never deliver them, to events that are just so badly organized that you don't enjoy them. These things discourage players from entering future tournaments and makes the community look bad.
Also having a "noob" commentator there to explain things for new viewers is a proven formula. Poker being the closest thing on TV to competitive gaming is the best example. While the commentator explaining the rules and basic strategies of poker every show pisses off the hardcore fan. It helps pull the causal fans into the game. The hardcore fans are going to bitch, but they are not going to stop watching. That's why they are the hardcore fans. If you want a game to grow, get used to that casting formula because its what works.
Who are you even arguing against, here?
As for the players getting that extra 1/1000 chance at winning some money for all the practicing they do. I don't know, how about we try instead to get enough sponsors that maybe one day you can have a league. Where players earn a salary regardless of what place they finish in any individual tournament. Sounds fun to me.
If there were sponsored leagues, the odds of making any money at all would be a LOT lower than 1 in 1000. Look at SC or any professional sport to see what I mean.
Besides, no one said sponsors couldn't do any good. The point is that we won't be desperate and do anything just to get them, because then we'd be enjoying our games less overall.
Daigo vs Sabin money match for those who missed it. Don't know how long it will be up, but watching them when I can. Team Spooky hasn't up'd em yet so this is just a stream capture.
Eita and Tokido on the mic! Commentary is pretty hilarious even though I don't understand it.
On July 13 2010 07:54 Pineapple wrote: Does anyone know what's happened to the frameadvantagedotcom YouTube channel?
Seb has all but retired from stream capturing. He moved onto a different site, not exactly sure what the aims of this one are: http://stillmashing.com/wp/
Hopefully this doesn't mean the end of Battlefield Arcadia videos. At least we still get Team Spooky stuff but I hate how crowded and busy their layout is.
On July 13 2010 02:33 Bill307 wrote: (Btw DBunny, you're not the same person as drunkenbunny, are you? I thought you were at first, but then I ran into him recently and was confused 'cause he didn't look anything like you. )
Incidently my SRK is DrunkBunny but I never post so I don't think anyone refers to me by that name. Its been awhile though, I think the last time we ran in to each other was two waterloo tournaments ago.
Evo was fun as hell this year, lookin forward to next years. I'm only active in the Blazblue and Guilty scene so I don't know the SF4 players well, but maybe that'll change. If any of you were at evo, I'm the asian guy with brown hair that wore a Hwaseung Jacket on Day 1, I met Infested in the bathroom lewl
EPT![[image loading]](http://img.shoryuken.com/gallery3/var/albums/Evo/Evo2010Logo.png)
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