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Diablo III General Discussion - Page 301

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DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
September 24 2011 10:19 GMT
#6001
On September 24 2011 19:05 Sgany wrote:
May be off-topic but I have never played Diablo 1 or 2, should I before Diablo 3 is released?


Yeah you should. Not because its needed or anything to better understand D3 but because they are great games.
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
September 24 2011 16:00 GMT
#6002
Regarding Daibos vs other weapons: keep in mind the item base is not complete. Think about D2, compare the Grand Matron Bow to the Hydra Bow.

Well, I just looked it up and actually it was counter to what I expected, the Matron Bow has more DPS- HOWEVER- the fact that I didn't even remember despite maining a Zon means it might be pretty irrelevant.
Bruut99
Profile Joined September 2011
10 Posts
September 25 2011 00:47 GMT
#6003
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.
mtn
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
729 Posts
September 25 2011 00:50 GMT
#6004
On September 25 2011 09:47 Bruut99 wrote:
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.


Stopped reading your post after first sentence.

They said that they WON'T balance they game.
Bruut99
Profile Joined September 2011
10 Posts
September 25 2011 01:03 GMT
#6005
Thanks for the warm welcome. Firstly, I think you are talking about my second sentence.

Ofcourse they are balancing the game. Do you know what balance is? They are creating Items arent they? Not making a 100k-1000k damage sword means they are balancing.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 01:18:35
September 25 2011 01:10 GMT
#6006
On September 25 2011 09:50 mtn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 09:47 Bruut99 wrote:
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.


Stopped reading your post after first sentence.

They said that they WON'T balance they game.


I believe they said they weren't going to focus on PvP balance too much (at least not in the beginning) but I can't Imagine they're going to let the campaign be 3x as easy for a wizard than a monk etc. (And yeah I know they did that in D2 with paladins but still.) WoW started off ridiculously unbalanced, but they worked towards that too
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
memcpy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
September 25 2011 02:25 GMT
#6007
Even at release there will probably be many undiscovered builds. Just like in BW and SC2, it takes a long time to find optimal builds. But regardless, having broken characters isn't really going to hurt PvE that much since you are only ruining the experience for yourself and anything that becomes extremely abusive in PvP will probably just get nerfed into oblivion because Blizzard doesn't care too much about PvP balance.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42416 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-26 11:33:07
September 26 2011 11:24 GMT
#6008
Interesting article on Korean times

US firm to make Diablo 3 ‘cashable’; Korean authority to say no

By Kwaak Je-yup

When does video gaming become gambling? To critics, it is the moment players start spending real money.

Blizzard Entertainment, one of the world’s leading video game companies, plans to introduce a real-currency marketplace in Diablo III, the much-awaited second sequel to the megahit series of the same name.

In a country where young people play games for hours in “PC bang” or Internet cafes, the prospect of a government approving such a trading platform seems out of the question to many.

The “auction house” feature in its current form is expected to fail in its bid at the Game Ratings Board, especially after Korean company IMI’s “Emperor Online” was rebuffed for promoting a similar feature. Without a rating, the game cannot go on sale.

The board’s spokesman declined to comment, saying nothing has been submitted for review. Michael Morhaime, Blizzard’s CEO and co-founder, called it “premature” to speculate on the outcome.

The auction house is a potential jackpot for Blizzard, especially with separate fees for listing, selling and real cash conversion.

According to Robert Bridenbecker, vice president of online technologies, the auction house will exist in a double-tier structure, one based on Diablo-only unit “gold” and another based on real money. The former will use only “in-game” gold while the latter will use Blizzard proprietary unit called “battle coins” as well as cash.

Blizzard is apparently reversing its previous policy: on Diablo II’s FAQ website, it states that “selling of characters or items is not a feature supported,” and that “Blizzard will not facilitate nor mediate in the sale or trading of characters/items.”

The issue of gambling, illegal for Korean nationals, is a sensitive one, especially after a 2005-06 nationwide scandal over the Sea Story game machines that first passed the regulatory body inspection but were removed after the police discovered excessively speculative and addictive behavior among the players.

Due to this controversy, the watchdog and approval committee was created in the Game Rating Board.

A body under the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism, it is scheduled to go under parliamentary inspection next Friday, with the issue of real-money trading in video games expected to take center stage.

The country’s attitude toward gaming involving cash transactions has irked Blizzard’s local staff who are reluctant to deal with the controversy expected with the introduction of the auction house but are forced by headquarters to launch the feature, an industry source familiar with the matter said.

Before the as-yet-undecided date of the official launch of Diablo III, the U.S. games subsidiary of Vivendi invited journalists Thursday to rebut the accusation that its auction house feature is a virtual casino.

“We’ve heard speculation comparing item trading...to some form of gambling, but in gambling you’re putting something at risk to win,” said Morhaime.

“Items” are won by individual players during the game when they complete a mission. Critics say they come through a randomized selection process, which is based on uncertainty like a card game, but Blizzard says it is a product of the player’s efforts.

“(In Diablo III), you’re not risking anything. You’re just investing your time (to win items to sell). It is an important distinction.”

Morhaime and Bridenbecker said they are only providing a “safe and secure environment,” a replacement for outside markets.
“They have allowed...unscrupulous behavior, fraud,” said Morhaime.



Diablo IncGamers article about this

What you guys think? "Exaggeration" or understandable?
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
September 26 2011 11:43 GMT
#6009
On September 26 2011 20:24 Grettin wrote:
Interesting article on Korean times

Show nested quote +
US firm to make Diablo 3 ‘cashable’; Korean authority to say no

By Kwaak Je-yup

When does video gaming become gambling? To critics, it is the moment players start spending real money.

Blizzard Entertainment, one of the world’s leading video game companies, plans to introduce a real-currency marketplace in Diablo III, the much-awaited second sequel to the megahit series of the same name.

In a country where young people play games for hours in “PC bang” or Internet cafes, the prospect of a government approving such a trading platform seems out of the question to many.

The “auction house” feature in its current form is expected to fail in its bid at the Game Ratings Board, especially after Korean company IMI’s “Emperor Online” was rebuffed for promoting a similar feature. Without a rating, the game cannot go on sale.

The board’s spokesman declined to comment, saying nothing has been submitted for review. Michael Morhaime, Blizzard’s CEO and co-founder, called it “premature” to speculate on the outcome.

The auction house is a potential jackpot for Blizzard, especially with separate fees for listing, selling and real cash conversion.

According to Robert Bridenbecker, vice president of online technologies, the auction house will exist in a double-tier structure, one based on Diablo-only unit “gold” and another based on real money. The former will use only “in-game” gold while the latter will use Blizzard proprietary unit called “battle coins” as well as cash.

Blizzard is apparently reversing its previous policy: on Diablo II’s FAQ website, it states that “selling of characters or items is not a feature supported,” and that “Blizzard will not facilitate nor mediate in the sale or trading of characters/items.”

The issue of gambling, illegal for Korean nationals, is a sensitive one, especially after a 2005-06 nationwide scandal over the Sea Story game machines that first passed the regulatory body inspection but were removed after the police discovered excessively speculative and addictive behavior among the players.

Due to this controversy, the watchdog and approval committee was created in the Game Rating Board.

A body under the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism, it is scheduled to go under parliamentary inspection next Friday, with the issue of real-money trading in video games expected to take center stage.

The country’s attitude toward gaming involving cash transactions has irked Blizzard’s local staff who are reluctant to deal with the controversy expected with the introduction of the auction house but are forced by headquarters to launch the feature, an industry source familiar with the matter said.

Before the as-yet-undecided date of the official launch of Diablo III, the U.S. games subsidiary of Vivendi invited journalists Thursday to rebut the accusation that its auction house feature is a virtual casino.

“We’ve heard speculation comparing item trading...to some form of gambling, but in gambling you’re putting something at risk to win,” said Morhaime.

“Items” are won by individual players during the game when they complete a mission. Critics say they come through a randomized selection process, which is based on uncertainty like a card game, but Blizzard says it is a product of the player’s efforts.

“(In Diablo III), you’re not risking anything. You’re just investing your time (to win items to sell). It is an important distinction.”

Morhaime and Bridenbecker said they are only providing a “safe and secure environment,” a replacement for outside markets.
“They have allowed...unscrupulous behavior, fraud,” said Morhaime.



Diablo IncGamers article about this

What you guys think? "Exaggeration" or understandable?


Hard to say. I would definatelly not call it gambling though, since gambling for me requires the risk of losing money. Risking time for potential cash is something that happens everywhere and is not really the same thing.

It's understandable from what I know about the korean culture and its limitations on gaming, but from an outsiders all of it can seem like an exaggeration. It's really not a surprise, and I'm not sure this is bigger than forcing anti-drug adds on Starcraft 2 or requiring KSSN for online play, etc.
NeoLearner
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Belgium1847 Posts
September 26 2011 14:33 GMT
#6010
Real money and video games, ever a dangerous combination. I think it will get more and more socially acceptable. And politics, like in everything, will come around once they smell money... Whoa, that sounded a lot more cynical than I thought it would...
Bankai - Correlation does not imply causation
underthetree
Profile Joined September 2011
3 Posts
September 28 2011 02:17 GMT
#6011
--- Nuked ---
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42416 Posts
September 29 2011 23:54 GMT
#6012


lol
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
AeroGear
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada652 Posts
September 30 2011 00:34 GMT
#6013
The increase in cursor speed goes well with the increase in game speed....what a feeble attempt.
Driven by hate, fueled by rage
ChinaRestaurant
Profile Joined May 2008
Austria324 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-30 02:18:01
September 30 2011 02:11 GMT
#6014
On September 30 2011 09:34 AeroGear wrote:
The increase in cursor speed goes well with the increase in game speed....what a feeble attempt.


Notice the enemies and environment still have the same speed even when he's in "speed mode". Doesnt seem fake to me.
SPAAAAAAACE
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
September 30 2011 03:11 GMT
#6015
On September 30 2011 08:54 Grettin wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O8sQptCTxM

lol


Hacks already lol and it's still in closed beta u_U
poor newb
Profile Joined April 2004
United States1879 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-30 03:44:22
September 30 2011 03:40 GMT
#6016
at first i thought it was fake too, but at 3:33 you can clearly see him running around super fast while the skeleton king gets up at normal speed
How do you mine minerals?
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
September 30 2011 04:45 GMT
#6017
On September 25 2011 09:50 mtn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 09:47 Bruut99 wrote:
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.


Stopped reading your post after first sentence.

They said that they WON'T balance they game.

Diablo isn't balanced, it's pretty much whoever has the best gear wins, no matter what spec you are (at least in D2). For example, a Hdin with complete gear is pretty much unstoppable, only by another hdin...
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-30 16:32:36
September 30 2011 16:29 GMT
#6018
On September 30 2011 13:45 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 09:50 mtn wrote:
On September 25 2011 09:47 Bruut99 wrote:
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.


Stopped reading your post after first sentence.

They said that they WON'T balance they game.

Diablo isn't balanced, it's pretty much whoever has the best gear wins, no matter what spec you are (at least in D2). For example, a Hdin with complete gear is pretty much unstoppable, only by another hdin...

Isn't that the definition of balanced? That it doesn't matter what spec you are and that it's only gear that separates equally good players.

A H-din without enigma isn't that great.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
October 03 2011 09:10 GMT
#6019
On September 25 2011 10:10 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 09:50 mtn wrote:
On September 25 2011 09:47 Bruut99 wrote:
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.


Stopped reading your post after first sentence.

They said that they WON'T balance they game.


I believe they said they weren't going to focus on PvP balance too much (at least not in the beginning) but I can't Imagine they're going to let the campaign be 3x as easy for a wizard than a monk etc. (And yeah I know they did that in D2 with paladins but still.) WoW started off ridiculously unbalanced, but they worked towards that too


wows balance got more shit when they decided that every spec has to be viable, taking their balanced specss from 9 to 30 overnight. thats always been blizzards probem with wow, without actually achieving their missions, they set themselves new ones. if they start the balance scope small its possible to get it right, but then they will decided more builds have to be viable while at the same time wanting to release game changing expansions, then it will just go downhill like wow.


on a similar subject. from watching d3 streams it seems like nothing has changed since d2. gameplay is still the same, the only difference is the graphics make it look like wow. half the UI is stolen from wow too, seems so lazy.
Djagulingu
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany3605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 09:28:03
October 03 2011 09:27 GMT
#6020
On September 25 2011 09:50 mtn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2011 09:47 Bruut99 wrote:
Hi,

Bruut, first time poster but long time lurker on TL here.
From reading/watching a lot about Diablo 3 recently i started to wonder about one major thing: Balance.

It blows my mind, how in the world are they going to balance this game. You have 5 characters with different skills/runestone combo's. They got to have a fluently gradually increasing difficulty level over Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno. Now include items.

For instance, will a lvl 40 barb will be comparable to a lvl 40 wizard, will they focus balance on lvl 60's? How much influence do items make. In Diablo 2 there were classes less depending on gear than others. The recent changes in the damage output (based on weapon damage) might make this not comparable to D2 though.

What players will do in in the first few months after the release of Diablo 3 is finding the most abusive skills/runestone/item combination per class. I bet there will be some HUGE balance patches in the first few months of release. Like 'Wow 2 Barbs with these skills/runestones combined with a Monk with x/y and a Wizard with x/y is WAYYYY overpowered' or 'This class is totally useless in a party'.

They need thousands of people in a beta trying out builds, PVE and PVP, to get the major imbalances out. I just dont trust internal testing.

I obviously did not play Diablo 3 yet, but the thing is, a game might seem very balanced untill a player finds a very abusive way to play. Enough examples out there in history.

Cliffs: Full beta asap please.


Stopped reading your post after first sentence.

They said that they WON'T balance they game.

So it would be just like D2, where bonemancer and hammerdin are fucking unstoppable in PvP and PvE whereas some other characters blatantly suck. Shit
"windows bash is a steaming heap of shit" tofucake
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