On December 12 2014 10:03 micronesia wrote: I've been playing go again after a long hiatus, for the past few days, and I'm noticing kgs is a lot less active than it used to be. Where are the happening places for online ranked go, now? I have such a long wait right now for an opponent at my terrible level lol
I don't remember your level, but http://online-go.com has more beginners (KGS DDKs) lately than KGS. And many strong players (KGS 5d+) have migrated to http://www.tygem.com .
- hikaru no go (raised awareness in the west) - professional scene, new professional system in US and Europe - the jubango between lee sedol and gu li (most epic match of this century so far) - computers vs human (see yoda norimoto vs computer : - michael redmond (only western pro to reach 9th dan - go seigen, kitani minoru, lee changho (legendary players, go seigen passed away at 100yo last year)
I'll be referencing Go for several articles. I'm doing one right now where the tools and accessibility of the game are areas that esports can either match or imitate, but the attitudes and values in addition to how integral the game is to mainstream culture in the Eastern hemisphere is something esports has yet to penetrate.
What do you guys think? I think the attitudes and values taught in Go are probably my favourite about this game. Teaching games, Tsumego, Analyze mode on online clients and the sensei/deshi dynamic. Professional Go schools are also very cool.
Any videos about the culture of Go, Go schools, etc. is very neat and interesting. I want to draw parallels to the dynamism (or difference of) in pro teams.
Started playing again recently after a few months of not playing at all. I'm around 3 kyu right now according to KGS (which seems to be around 1 dan on Tygem). Losing games every day because of horrible misreads due to lack of practice. If anyone wants to play shoot me a message, I'm nabya on KGS or crouga on OGS.
On February 04 2015 04:29 Magggrig wrote: I think esport and go are extremely different... Go is driven by passion, esport is driven by thirst for glory.
I think both embody the feeling of a competitive game. Go is very mature and its age shows what values it still holds to: honor, dedication, passion for the game. Esports is young, new and immature; it tries to reach for new heights because of how fast its growing and the general attitude of its enthusiasts.
Doesn't make them all that different and if anything, esports could learn a lot from Go
As for active servers i play on wbaduk and tygem now - when i play online i want fast games. BTW if anyone in manchester uk is reading this - head down to the shakespear on thursday evenings (although i probably wont be there as dealing with a kid atm!) there are at least 8 people there every week of strengths from 15k-2d.
But i mainly play on wbaduk because its hilarious being 7-10 stones weaker on them than i am at home (blitz lol) Also i get the feeling people on there have *much* *MUCH* better fundamentals.
w baduk also has a lot of pro lectures in english which will give you some of those fundamentals. I wish i had resource like that 10 year ago. Then it was only sensei which whilst a good resource is not structured or filtered enough.
goproblems is also excellent but runs slow as fuck these days imo (the guy who made it made star sontata ... sold that and then kinda gave up on everything as far as i can tell)
I think the attitude in go is incredible. There is nowhere else i can play games and see peoples attitudes naturally improve. It is a game of self improvement. The whole playing in a way to help your opponent improve if huge - especially when playing face to face. As a result a lot of attitudes in games sicken me
The only sad thing is that i think go and esports are in competition for players.
online go seems to be good up to 10k, i cant get a game on there though.
failing that let me pimp guo juans website (http://internetgoschool.com/). I have no affiliation just a ton of respect for her and mingjiu I learnt more through them in 6 months than i did in 10 years prior.
There are also some korean inseis offering structured lessons if you are stronger.
I think the Korean semipro/professional esports feeder structure is essentially derived from the Insei/Yeongusung system that have been established for Go schools for centuries. I think players at the professional level take their competition seriously, and culturally it has enough respect to have a well-established business side. "Star culture" is relevant in every field, and professional Go is no exception.
As a game I think it's strategically unmatched, and there are a lot of cool Art-of-War-esque proverbs that apply to games beyond itself.
I think the accessibility of Go is unmatched. It's rules are simple, there's no hierarchy like in Chess and its nature and surrounding welcomes old values that we forget: dedication, diligence, respect and honor. I get a lot of pride saying I know how to play Go/actively (I try to) trying to play. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure.
I feel like with Go, I'm part of something that inherits a lot of what I want in a game and an endless depth that mirrors that of Dota 2 or League as its meta changes (and the balance pushes for change).
I can write a lot about it and I will (: Thanks everyone
Amateur Go is a mix of two things, most people who play it don't approach it as a competitive thing, those who do pursue it certainly do so in a way that western esports does not come even close to doing. Individually it is much closer to chess in the game-sport duality.
The game is no less hierarchical than chess in much of its nature and I think so much of what you're posting is just a western hipster view
On February 04 2015 09:25 Kupon3ss wrote: Amateur Go is a mix of two things, most people who play it don't approach it as a competitive thing, those who do pursue it certainly do so in a way that western esports does not come even close to doing. Individually it is much closer to chess in the game-sport duality.
The game is no less hierarchical than chess in much of its nature and I think so much of what you're posting is just a western hipster view
Really? Because I was paraphrasing the point-of-view of a Chinese sports writer who described the history of the game being non-hierarchical. Chess has ranks and hierarchy of value for units.
Go has none of that and is simplified, stemming from the idea that it was originally played by lower folk with too much time on their hands before later being accepted into higher society.
The bottom-line of what I'm comparing the two from is still valid (in my opinion), labeling my enthusiasm for the other aspects as "western hipster" is just derogatory.
The game historically originated in the upper classes, most likely from divination and from warrior nobles The entire Dan system is based upon ranks and hierarchical designations, and titles that have been governing the game for thousands of years
Bottom line is that you don't know much about the history of Go or Chess or even esports and you're just filling in the blanks to fit your hipster conception of the game
On February 04 2015 09:37 Kupon3ss wrote: The game historically originated in the upper classes, most likely from divination and from warrior nobles The entire Dan system is based upon ranks and hierarchical designations, and titles that have been governing the game for thousands of years
Bottom line is that you don't know much about the history of Go or Chess or even esports and you're just filling in the blanks to fit your hipster conception of the game
With that kind of dismissal, there wouldn't be convincing you otherwise. From what I've read, seen and listened to, I learned otherwise. But if my only crime is your perception of a "hipster conception", then I'm fine with that as I hardly respect your views as is and it only serves to crush my interest, not to educate or inform.
edit: I have the stomach flu, so I couldn't get to work, but my co-worker sent me the files:
On February 04 2015 09:37 Kupon3ss wrote: The game historically originated in the upper classes, most likely from divination and from warrior nobles The entire Dan system is based upon ranks and hierarchical designations, and titles that have been governing the game for thousands of years
Bottom line is that you don't know much about the history of Go or Chess or even esports and you're just filling in the blanks to fit your hipster conception of the game
You discredit yourself with that kind of pathetic offensive post...
I think there are many aspects of Go, many different kind of people that play it in many different context. It is true that go is less hierarchical than other games, it doesn't matter that much what rank you are because you can put handicap stones, go players don't mind as much (talking from the go players I know) for ranking as videogames players do. But it is true that Go is hierarchical, it would be foolish to pretend ranks don't exist at all.
By the way I also read that Go was played by higher classes in Japan.
On February 04 2015 09:37 Kupon3ss wrote: The game historically originated in the upper classes, most likely from divination and from warrior nobles The entire Dan system is based upon ranks and hierarchical designations, and titles that have been governing the game for thousands of years
Bottom line is that you don't know much about the history of Go or Chess or even esports and you're just filling in the blanks to fit your hipster conception of the game
You discredit yourself with that kind of pathetic offensive post...
I think there are many aspects of Go, many different kind of people that play it in many different context. It is true that go is less hierarchical than other games, it doesn't matter that much what rank you are because you can put handicap stones, go players don't mind as much (talking from the go players I know) for ranking as videogames players do. But it is true that Go is hierarchical, it would be foolish to pretend ranks don't exist at all.
By the way I also read that Go was played by higher classes in Japan.
So I wasnt discredited before he put me down lol?
When I meant hierarchy, I meant within the game: like Chess has pawns and queens, but go is just stones. I should have clarifiee. The handicap stones aspect is something i didnt consider thanks!
Where did you read that? Ill read it too, it'l help improve my view
EPT
