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On September 28 2010 17:53 Shizuru~ wrote:actually, i don't understand why do they split the glyph, seal and marks into 9 pieces, it would be much easier to organise and easier for us to purchase the stuff without clicking on the samething over and over again for 9 times -.- should've just make it 3 pieces each for the runes imo Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 17:49 BraveGhost wrote:
The problem is how passives are looked at, same as ultimates... not everyone can have a godly passive like Annies, that's her special trait. look at nidalee's passive for example...which im not a fan of... but not everyone can have a godly ultimate like amummus that's one of his special traits, and he has a medicore passive.. but does have its uses...
also... I love TFs passive, how do you justify Alistars passive then? or maybe even eve's?
Sometimes you split the 9, for example, activating akali's passive at level 1 does not require all 9 slots to be devoted to attack power, since armor pen is the better stat, it would be in your best interest to only use sufficient slots to activate the passive, then put armor pen in the rest.
As for TF's passive, the problem is the timing of it. by the end of the game if everyone gets 150 creep kills, thats 300 gold each or 1500 gold for the team. However, in the early game, when getting items is the most important, 40 creep kills can get you 80 gold, thats not even enough for a ward. So, its not enough of an impact to get out any one item quicker on a champion.
When we look at a passive or skill, we should be looking at its synergy with the rest of the skills, TF's passive doesn't do much, perhaps it even forces him to play as a late game carry when he's carrying just isn't that good now compared to the likes of kogmaw, hence, people dont like the passive.
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On September 28 2010 18:12 kdgns wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 17:53 Shizuru~ wrote:actually, i don't understand why do they split the glyph, seal and marks into 9 pieces, it would be much easier to organise and easier for us to purchase the stuff without clicking on the samething over and over again for 9 times -.- should've just make it 3 pieces each for the runes imo On September 28 2010 17:49 BraveGhost wrote:
The problem is how passives are looked at, same as ultimates... not everyone can have a godly passive like Annies, that's her special trait. look at nidalee's passive for example...which im not a fan of... but not everyone can have a godly ultimate like amummus that's one of his special traits, and he has a medicore passive.. but does have its uses...
also... I love TFs passive, how do you justify Alistars passive then? or maybe even eve's? Sometimes you split the 9, for example, activating akali's passive at level 1 does not require all 9 slots to be devoted to attack power, since armor pen is the better stat, it would be in your best interest to only use sufficient slots to activate the passive, then put armor pen in the rest. As for TF's passive, the problem is the timing of it. by the end of the game if everyone gets 150 creep kills, thats 300 gold each or 1500 gold for the team. However, in the early game, when getting items is the most important, 40 creep kills can get you 80 gold, thats not even enough for a ward. So, its not enough of an impact to get out any one item quicker on a champion. When we look at a passive or skill, we should be looking at its synergy with the rest of the skills, TF's passive doesn't do much, perhaps it even forces him to play as a late game carry when he's carrying just isn't that good now compared to the likes of kogmaw, hence, people dont like the passive.
But your point still stands, thatin late game its 3 towers or 3 dragons.
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On September 28 2010 17:53 Shizuru~ wrote:actually, i don't understand why do they split the glyph, seal and marks into 9 pieces, it would be much easier to organise and easier for us to purchase the stuff without clicking on the samething over and over again for 9 times -.- should've just make it 3 pieces each for the runes imo Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 17:49 BraveGhost wrote:
The problem is how passives are looked at, same as ultimates... not everyone can have a godly passive like Annies, that's her special trait. look at nidalee's passive for example...which im not a fan of... but not everyone can have a godly ultimate like amummus that's one of his special traits, and he has a medicore passive.. but does have its uses...
also... I love TFs passive, how do you justify Alistars passive then? or maybe even eve's?
I can't justify it
I don't think the heroes are balanced(or ever will be)... I was just saying not everyone is gonna have the same value passives... obviously some heroes are gonna be stronger than others, and some will be weaker than others..
Compare udyr ult, teemo ult, and amummu ult
compare nidalee passive, tf passive, Kayle passive
Im not a big fan of crying bout imbalance though.. we just need to accept it as part of the game.. It's really hard to balance out 2 heroes to be fair against eachother..let alone 60. the only way they can do it is to make it so you can only play mirror matches.. .. I have a friend who does nothing but cry when he dies about how whatever killed him was op.. It used to be great when he wasn't lvl 30 and he blamed his deaths entirely on runes  .... so much time spent raging in /all, not enough time figuring out how not to feed
I stand by my statement that tf's passive is excellent... i mean you guys say thats an avg of 1000 gold over a game>? That's 10 wards...
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Yeah complaining about a character's passive without looking at the character as a whole is kind of silly.
All I really want to add is that, as a person who likes to jungle, having both Zilean and TF on my team is very nice.
With the exception that having TF and Zilean on a team is usually not a very good team composition.
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i don't think nidalees passive is weak at all, in fact its basically what makes her played the way she's played, the fact that she can push towers like its her job and then avoid a 5 man gank by flashing over a wall and running away through the jungle makes her insanely powerful and gives her ridiculous map control.
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5461 Posts
nidalee's passive allows her to be one of the best top laners. but overall, i'm of the opinion that katarina has the best passive in the game. voracity imba omg.
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On September 28 2010 19:25 Scamp wrote:
All I really want to add is that, as a person who likes to jungle, having both Zilean and TF on my team is very nice.
With the exception that having TF and Zilean on a team is usually not a very good team composition.
You proved urself right by saying this  . passive skills alone does not make a champ good as a whole.
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Well if you are one of those pro ashe that max hawkshot by lvl 9, that's 7 more gold/kill!!!
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On September 28 2010 20:33 BlackPaladin wrote:
Well if you are one of those pro ashe that max hawkshot by lvl 9, that's 7 more gold/kill!!!
i did that, the one time i played ashe, just cause thats how i play ranged carries, chill in lane and farm for about 25 mins, so when im playing as passively as i do, i see no reason not to max hawkshot early, *shrug*
oh, and dont bother arguing with me kus im probably not ever gonna play ashe again
this guy i play with named jevvbagels only plays ashe, i think hes only clocked like 10 total games with other heroes, lol, so he always takes her haha. sad thing is, hes not even that good at ashe T.T
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On September 28 2010 17:18 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 12:00 gtrsrs wrote:On September 28 2010 11:37 patochaos wrote:
Sup, new player here.
I'm thinking of buying Mordekaiser, what's TL's opinion on him? I mostly enjoy playing Amumu or Garen. if you are playing against baddies (you probably are at this point) he's great. i've seen friends get ludicrous numbers as mordekaiser and never dip below 90% health. good players, however, will completely ignore you because attacking a mordekaiser is futile, and since you only do very small chip damage, you will have 0 impact in real fights the key to playing morde well is ulting their hardest carry (tristana especially) just before they die so they become your slave, then using them to tear apart your opponents. that's really morde's only threat if the enemy is smart enough to ignore him Mordekaiser is very underestimated. Building CDR and tank shit on him gives more than enough damage threat for all but the latest phase of the game (and by the time everyone hits 18 your real carries should start carrying). I'd say he actually does a lot of damage even without any damage items. His true weaknesses are: 1) Lack of CC/escape. He cannot chase, he cannot escape. He's very one-sided in that regard, much like Garen. That also limits his teamfight effectiveness, but just standing there and doing damage all the while having their Tristana ulted is good enough. Building Rylai's is fun, but it's a huge amount of gold thrown into the window because his AP ratios are atrocious, CDR is so much better for his damage. 2) Reliance on heavy pushing in the laning phase. Morderkaiser lanes are very very vulnerable to ganks. He looks invincible in lane, but as soon as it's 3v2 or 2v1, he suddenly becomes very fragile and dies quickly because he cannot escape anything in the world. Situation gets even worse if there are no creeps around. 2) Very weak ganker and requires a solo lane to be truly efficient.
Mordekaiser doesn´t need a sololane, he needs a 2v1 lane - he relies on the level advantage to be an actual offensive threath.
His AP ratios are actually quite good given: All his skills benefit, 3 out of 4 are AoE and it serves a double purpose: more damage charges his shield more. Still, you´d rather weant CDR first until it´s maxed.
The real "secret" to Mordekaiser success is killing with his ultimate. If he can spawn the ghost it´s almost a free Towerkill. He NEEDS ignite to prevent his victim from simply outhealing it and cooperation from his teammates to kill the marked one - it´s unlikely that Mordekaiser can kill anyone 1v1.
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On September 28 2010 20:49 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 17:18 BluzMan wrote:On September 28 2010 12:00 gtrsrs wrote:On September 28 2010 11:37 patochaos wrote:
Sup, new player here.
I'm thinking of buying Mordekaiser, what's TL's opinion on him? I mostly enjoy playing Amumu or Garen. if you are playing against baddies (you probably are at this point) he's great. i've seen friends get ludicrous numbers as mordekaiser and never dip below 90% health. good players, however, will completely ignore you because attacking a mordekaiser is futile, and since you only do very small chip damage, you will have 0 impact in real fights the key to playing morde well is ulting their hardest carry (tristana especially) just before they die so they become your slave, then using them to tear apart your opponents. that's really morde's only threat if the enemy is smart enough to ignore him Mordekaiser is very underestimated. Building CDR and tank shit on him gives more than enough damage threat for all but the latest phase of the game (and by the time everyone hits 18 your real carries should start carrying). I'd say he actually does a lot of damage even without any damage items. His true weaknesses are: 1) Lack of CC/escape. He cannot chase, he cannot escape. He's very one-sided in that regard, much like Garen. That also limits his teamfight effectiveness, but just standing there and doing damage all the while having their Tristana ulted is good enough. Building Rylai's is fun, but it's a huge amount of gold thrown into the window because his AP ratios are atrocious, CDR is so much better for his damage. 2) Reliance on heavy pushing in the laning phase. Morderkaiser lanes are very very vulnerable to ganks. He looks invincible in lane, but as soon as it's 3v2 or 2v1, he suddenly becomes very fragile and dies quickly because he cannot escape anything in the world. Situation gets even worse if there are no creeps around. 2) Very weak ganker and requires a solo lane to be truly efficient. Mordekaiser doesn´t need a sololane, he needs a 2v1 lane - he relies on the level advantage to be an actual offensive threath. His AP ratios are actually quite good given: All his skills benefit, 3 out of 4 are AoE and it serves a double purpose: more damage charges his shield more. Still, you´d rather weant CDR first until it´s maxed. The real "secret" to Mordekaiser success is killing with his ultimate. If he can spawn the ghost it´s almost a free Towerkill. He NEEDS ignite to prevent his victim from simply outhealing it and cooperation from his teammates to kill the marked one - it´s unlikely that Mordekaiser can kill anyone 1v1.
2v1 lanes are hard to come by the higher up you go in elo, since both teams will typically have a jungler. Morde typically solos top afaik, just cause his gank potential is pretty low due to his lack of cc of any kind. He excels against ppl who try to push really hard to win lanes (morgana, malz, heimer (altho i dont play him that way, but many do), sivir, mf) since he can push back just as hard, hes also quite irritating to kill in lane due to his sheild, which also makes him fairly decent at zoning.
imo, morde clones are quite overrated for the most part, certainly not the 'secret' to mordekaiser. i think that just using the standard tank strategy of 'get up in their face and piss them off so they attack you' is the best way to play morde (granted im not much of a morde player, but the good ones i see seem to do this)
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I enjoy playing 6v4.
I focus whoever morde ults. Simple.
I played a few games as jungle rammus last night. Talk about fun! With powerball you're everywhere on the map and the jungle speed is fantastic. he's not as good 1v1 as olaf, but usually holds on to more HP in the early game due to the nature of both champs. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a powerful early gank at all. I try at level 5 against baddies, or wait until 7-8 against a good team.
Starting blue buff is a breeze with normal jungle setup. I end up with 50-60% health and it goes up from there. Buff mobs and wraiths die instantly due to having 3 AoE's. The ult timer is nice and short that you can almost guarantee it will be up whenever you need it. It's not an initiator like ashe's ult so it doesn't *have* to be up at the start of a team fight.
Lane rammus is dead to me. he might be the second worst laner after WW compared to godly jungling.
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4v5ed like 5 games in row, wtf
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0-8 kog in mid after a failed surrender vote sits idle on the fountain for the rest of the game. God I love solo queue.
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some guy in liquidparty 'avidstimpackuser' (iirc?) sent me a link: http://tinyurl.com/34923eu
survey for some lol stuff. I told him to put it in the thread, but 1hr later and its not here, so w/e
ill put it in wiki too.
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On September 28 2010 12:07 gtrsrs wrote:
it's just dumb to make this assumption that saving 15 seconds is going to make any impact on the game
is passive gold BAD? no of course not. but is TF's passive underrated? are you shitting me? it's easily one of the weakest passives in the game
And it's equally as retarded to assume that not saving 15 seconds is bad.
Your argument is flawed.
TF's passive can do nothing but improve your performance.
-Not playing your best game and trailing a little behind in CS? No prob, a free global passive is keeping you in the game.
-Playing pretty well and doing well, Sweet, a free global passive is making you even better.
-Completely dominating your lane, owning your enemies, you're +50 CS and 2 levels ahead, GFG, a free global passive is snowballing you even harder. Now you'll easily have that extra gold for some free wards to ward jungle while you build your main items.
-You're playing like complete garbage and getting owned, whatever, maybe you'll be lucky and a free global passive will give you just enough gold to buy that one item and get back into the game, if not you'd lose anyway.
So yeah, free gold is clearly so weak and bad. Make a proper argument ffs please.
It's called diminishing returns and number theory. EVERY. LITTLE. BIT. HELPS. Get over yourself.
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ill just pop in on this tf gold discussion to say that i really <3 seeing the little +2s come up, so it kinda helps out my last hitting
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On September 28 2010 22:48 barbsq wrote:ill just pop in on this tf gold discussion to say that i really <3 seeing the little +2s come up, so it kinda helps out my last hitting
same, it feels so "yay" ish
Also it proccs of GP's denial, so clearly we haz imba synergy here oO
Oh and had my first ranked game as jungle tanktheon, worked wonders 11-2-4, being carry early game and tank later (opened lantern, boots, hog, bruta, banshees game end)
Thanks for the awesome guide mog, gonna play with this some ! :D
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On September 28 2010 15:56 Iplaythings wrote:
I just use mogwais jungle masterys 24/7 nowadays
What's the setup on masteries?
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On September 28 2010 22:34 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 12:07 gtrsrs wrote:
it's just dumb to make this assumption that saving 15 seconds is going to make any impact on the game
is passive gold BAD? no of course not. but is TF's passive underrated? are you shitting me? it's easily one of the weakest passives in the game
And it's equally as retarded to assume that not saving 15 seconds is bad. Your argument is flawed. TF's passive can do nothing but improve your performance. -Not playing your best game and trailing a little behind in CS? No prob, a free global passive is keeping you in the game. -Playing pretty well and doing well, Sweet, a free global passive is making you even better. -Completely dominating your lane, owning your enemies, you're +50 CS and 2 levels ahead, GFG, a free global passive is snowballing you even harder. Now you'll easily have that extra gold for some free wards to ward jungle while you build your main items. -You're playing like complete garbage and getting owned, whatever, maybe you'll be lucky and a free global passive will give you just enough gold to buy that one item and get back into the game, if not you'd lose anyway. So yeah, free gold is clearly so weak and bad. Make a proper argument ffs please. It's called diminishing returns and number theory. EVERY. LITTLE. BIT. HELPS. Get over yourself.
hint: this is why you were banned...
regardless of passive, TF is in my opinion in the top 5 worst characters. Squishy, short ranged, and the only thing he brings to the table is a stun on a carry if you can call him that. Pantheon and Shen do everything he does better, especially pantheon.
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EPT
