EPT[Civ 4] Succession Game 3 - Page 9
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Manit0u
Poland17183 Posts
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jfourz
Ireland421 Posts
On June 09 2010 10:16 Manit0u wrote: Not to mention that 2 cities are stealing tiles from the capital now... yep this will be a valid complaint if someone wanted the capital at level 16+ or whatever with absolutely no specialists, but i doubt anyone does | ||
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
Expansionists ShloobeR Mystlord catabowl nosliw j4s Pyramidists Keilah Others RisingTide Energizer (will go with either) mcneebs miseiler h3r1n6 duckett Dobrev Soda | ||
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JustAnotherKnave
United States67 Posts
On June 09 2010 10:16 j4s wrote: did you see our economy? and how far the others were ahead? spamming prets is well and good but it would have left us crippled if i had gone straight for that imo. units disbanding while we're at war is never a good thing. besides everyone plays differently, i thought that was the fun of a succession game! sign up yourself if u want things done your way  and happy birthday  Cottages could have been placed where the forests were chopped to praetorians. Sure they might be a few turns behind yours, but the size of the other city/capital would have been able to put them to good use. Anyways, you're totally entitled to play differently (as you did and i'm not asking you to re-do your turns) but it seemed to me that you were jeopardizing the primary strength of the civ (medieval praet destruction) for a little money in the next era when the fast courthouses (Organized civ) could have been online before disbanding was close to a necessary option. Am I not allowed to critique? | ||
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
On June 09 2010 10:38 catabowl wrote: Yeah, I don't mind the closeness to the capital. I don't even mind the city placement. Just who is next actually? The game is running via the roster at the first post. Or should be doing so if it isnt | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
Could we get a final roster up with everyone's names and the order to play in? I joined late, and so did a few others iirc. | ||
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
As j4s was last to play, it should be RisingTide's turn now. However going back over the thread, catabowl PM'ed the wrong person and skipped Keilah and Dobrev. To fix this, I've reordered the roster and moved Keilah and Dobrev so they dont miss out on this round of turns. Please stick to the roster on the front page | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
from a quick survey of where we stand, i notice: a)we suck in points b)we suck in economy c)we're ready to build a big army fast d)saladin doesn't seem to have more than 2-3 units/town, so it should be easy to take him out e)our units will go on strike if I build more/take cities/don't build up our economy f)???? g)profit | ||
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
Looked through the thread though and I've got a few points to make. We can't rush someone. For the love of god, our cities are too far apart and maintenance is already killing us, even if we managed to take a bunch of cities, we wouldn't be able to support them. Also, our two closest neighbors are Sally and Church. Both are protective. Sure Praets are all sorts of imba, but we aren't going to be getting good enough odds to make it work. Also also, I REAAAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYY should have brought this up earlier, but this is an Emperor Large Inland Sea map with no additional civs. I'm not sure what the sea level is, but it seems to be on the Low side. You can see it on the mini-map, there is soooo much empty space, even if we take another civs sites, other civs are just going to expand into the gaps and fuck us up in the long run. In this sense it's better to have two relative lightweights on either side of us than to inadvertently let Hannibal get 45 cities. As much as I'm sure everyone would like to see the legions stomping all over everything, it isn't going to happen on Emperor on this map. My suggestions: -Put cottages on every workable green tile around. We'll need every ounce of commerce to keep afloat. -Get alpha ASAP, use it to build research to currency. Once we have that, we should be able to avert any massive financial breakdown -During this time we spam settlers and workers to carve out by blocking, enough room for 10 or so cities which will allow us to keep up with the AI, we can decide what to do then -We need to decide on a vague unified plan. Do we want to chase Lib? Are we going for a peaceful culture/space win? Are we going to mass cannons or go on a good 'ol fashioned cavalry romp? The sooner we figure all this out the sooner we can optimise city sites and improvements. So, I guess Energizer is next from the roster, but what's this thing with Keilah? I'll put of the PMing until I know who to talk to. | ||
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
On June 10 2010 14:29 RisingTide wrote: Ok, firstly, I can't play this round. I have exams starting in 2 days, so I'll probably be indisposed until ~the 23rd. Sorry, I'll PM the next guy. Looked through the thread though and I've got a few points to make. We can't rush someone. For the love of god, our cities are too far apart and maintenance is already killing us, even if we managed to take a bunch of cities, we wouldn't be able to support them. Also, our two closest neighbors are Sally and Church. Both are protective. Sure Praets are all sorts of imba, but we aren't going to be getting good enough odds to make it work. Also also, I REAAAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYY should have brought this up earlier, but this is an Emperor Large Inland Sea map with no additional civs. I'm not sure what the sea level is, but it seems to be on the Low side. You can see it on the mini-map, there is soooo much empty space, even if we take another civs sites, other civs are just going to expand into the gaps and fuck us up in the long run. In this sense it's better to have two relative lightweights on either side of us than to inadvertently let Hannibal get 45 cities. As much as I'm sure everyone would like to see the legions stomping all over everything, it isn't going to happen on Emperor on this map. My suggestions: -Put cottages on every workable green tile around. We'll need every ounce of commerce to keep afloat. -Get alpha ASAP, use it to build research to currency. Once we have that, we should be able to avert any massive financial breakdown -During this time we spam settlers and workers to carve out by blocking, enough room for 10 or so cities which will allow us to keep up with the AI, we can decide what to do then -We need to decide on a vague unified plan. Do we want to chase Lib? Are we going for a peaceful culture/space win? Are we going to mass cannons or go on a good 'ol fashioned cavalry romp? The sooner we figure all this out the sooner we can optimise city sites and improvements. So, I guess Energizer is next from the roster, but what's this thing with Keilah? I'll put of the PMing until I know who to talk to. Keilah and Dobrev missed their turns because catabowl PM'ed the wrong person. I reorganised the Roster so that Keileh and Dobrev get their turns before the roster goes for another cycle. So it's not your turn until theyve had their turns, and therefore you don't need to PM anyone. I'll put a pass note on the roster for your next turn so play skips you. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
Expansion was messed up because we took some crap city locations, including expanding too far away. Now I can't build any new cities until the current ones get the cash flowing. War was messed up because of the too many cities thing, plus we have way too many useless units that are just costing us gold in supply. Do we REALLY need 2 archers in every city, plus 2 spare warriors, PLUS some chariots, just to defend against barbarians? And our cities are messed up, like for example I see some libraries being built before granaries and I'm wondering what could possibly be the purpose of that... Anyways, I see two possibilites - 1)do as the guy above suggested and cottage up, hope for the best. 2)cottage up a little slower, use excess population and the prechopped forests to build as many praetorians as we can, then use them to take a few cities from Saladin. The gold from looting will keep us afloat until the cottages are up, and we should be able to get alphabet from him in exchange for peace after we own him really hard. Personally I like 2) anything to say? | ||
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HolydaKing
21253 Posts
2) could be a lifesafer but if it doesn't work it's lost, but i'd do that too. Anyway, it's not your fault if you guys lose this game, do what you think. As you said people just did what they thought and really didn't follow a strategy (which is not wrong, but i don't see this working on emperor ^^)! good luck guys anyway, really wanting to see you win this. I doubt it though! :p | ||
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Biochemist
United States1008 Posts
On June 10 2010 19:24 Keilah wrote: uuggghhhhhh i am hating this game so far... it's so disorganized and crap. Expansion was messed up because we took some crap city locations, including expanding too far away. Now I can't build any new cities until the current ones get the cash flowing. War was messed up because of the too many cities thing, plus we have way too many useless units that are just costing us gold in supply. Do we REALLY need 2 archers in every city, plus 2 spare warriors, PLUS some chariots, just to defend against barbarians? And our cities are messed up, like for example I see some libraries being built before granaries and I'm wondering what could possibly be the purpose of that... Anyways, I see two possibilites - 1)do as the guy above suggested and cottage up, hope for the best. 2)cottage up a little slower, use excess population and the prechopped forests to build as many praetorians as we can, then use them to take a few cities from Saladin. The gold from looting will keep us afloat until the cottages are up, and we should be able to get alphabet from him in exchange for peace after we own him really hard. Personally I like 2) anything to say? I say go for 2 and if we don't win we've learned a few things about how not to be a jack-of-all-trades and still try to praetorian rush in an emperor game. | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Well, that means it's time to switch plans. Cottaging up as of now is useless. We spent far too many turns acquiring Iron Working, and we're now behind because we didn't pump the praets and demolish a nearby civvie. We won't have a chance to catch up if we cottage up, military is our only answer. If I was to outline a plan, I'd have to favor using our Praets to wipe out a civ, possibly Saladin, and start setting up a Specialist economy. We have a lot of cities on river tiles, so let's farm them now and get some semblance of an economy up and running before we switch over to cottaging everything. I don't want any cottaging to occur until Emancipation else we risk straight out losing the technological battle. Our only power at this point in the game are our Praets and city placement, which I think we have to abuse to squeak out a victory. That's the third option from my perspective. But it's ultimately up to the next guy to see what he'll want to do. Edit: As soon as I pressed "post", I realized that I forgot to say some things: -Why are any of our cities unhappy? We should be whipping them down to size! -Since we have pottery, we should be putting Granaries in all of our cities to abuse the whip. That's the other thing that we need to abuse. We'll use the excess food that we get from whipping to run specialists. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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Biochemist
United States1008 Posts
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On June 12 2010 05:07 Biochemist wrote: What game factors influence the decision to pursue a specialist economy vs the traditional cottage economy? Do some civs/leadertraits lend themselves more to one than the other, or is geography like terrain/resources a big consideration? There's been a lot of discussion over these two, and in my opinion, the Specialist economy works best pre-emancipation/bureaucracy/commerce and science national wonders. It's extremely powerful in the early stages of the game, especially on higher difficulties. It's very customizable, and if you have semi-decent land, you'll save yourself a lot of trouble early on because you aren't vulnerable to pillaging. The reason why, I believe, the specialist economy is so powerful early game and perhaps even favored in Emperor+ games is because it lends itself to military expansion + a warmongerer early game. You don't need to babysit cottages, and your science slider will be sitting at 0% most of the time, but that's good because you'll be expanding your empire like no tomorrow, pillaging stuff, and getting GREAT PEOPLE. That last part is vital to a Specialist economy, because you can pretty much control the type of great people that you get. Rome is good for the SE because of both its traits and also its UB, which grants +25% GP points. Not to mention that our UU allows us to basically skip Machinery on a beeline for Liberalism! (We might be able to get it!) The two major techs that we need to grab are Alphabet to trade for techs and Code of Laws for Caste System, Courthouses, and also opening up tech lines to CS and Philosophy. But for now we should focus on war, and setting up farms and specialists where we can. | ||
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NIJ
1012 Posts
On June 12 2010 05:07 Biochemist wrote: What game factors influence the decision to pursue a specialist economy vs the traditional cottage economy? Do some civs/leadertraits lend themselves more to one than the other, or is geography like terrain/resources a big consideration? Yes to all. If leader is financial vs philosophical If your territory yields lot of food (people farming) vs lots of coasts, rivers or other rich in gold spot. | ||
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