TL Chess Match 3 - Page 12
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Ikari
United States176 Posts
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jeddus
United States832 Posts
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Mystlord
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United States10264 Posts
15. Nxf6 + Show Spoiler + If we're planning to attack, we better do so now. We should put a knight on e5 and use that as a provocation for Black to attack us. From here, we can activate all of our pieces that are sitting on the d file and play aiming for center control. | ||
jfazz
Australia672 Posts
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
On February 22 2010 04:09 Mystlord wrote: I'm curious to hear an explanation for g3... 15. Nxf6 + Show Spoiler + If we're planning to attack, we better do so now. We should put a knight on e5 and use that as a provocation for Black to attack us. From here, we can activate all of our pieces that are sitting on the d file and play aiming for center control. They're probably being sheeple and are just following the line jfazz posted in the last game: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7.Nf3 Nd7 8.h5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 e6 11.Bf4 Qa5+ 12.Bd2 Qc7 13.0-0-0 Ngf6 14.Ne4 0-0-0 15.g3 (15.Nxf6 Nxf6 16.Qe2 Bd6 17.g3 Rhe8 18.c4 c5 19.Bc3 cxd4 20.Nxd4 a6 21.Kb1 Rd7 =) 15...Nxe4 16.Qxe4 Bd6 Lol. Anyway Nxf6 doesnt seem to get us anywhere. Black just takes back with his knight, and if we play Ne5 immediately, c5 attacks the pinned pawn. Anyway, I don't seem to see whatever "winning chances" that we were supposed to have by playing the h4 line. If someone could show it to me that would be great. | ||
malathion
United States361 Posts
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Mystlord
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United States10264 Posts
On February 22 2010 09:22 Incognito wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 22 2010 04:09 Mystlord wrote: I'm curious to hear an explanation for g3... 15. Nxf6 + Show Spoiler + If we're planning to attack, we better do so now. We should put a knight on e5 and use that as a provocation for Black to attack us. From here, we can activate all of our pieces that are sitting on the d file and play aiming for center control. They're probably being sheeple and are just following the line jfazz posted in the last game: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7.Nf3 Nd7 8.h5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 e6 11.Bf4 Qa5+ 12.Bd2 Qc7 13.0-0-0 Ngf6 14.Ne4 0-0-0 15.g3 (15.Nxf6 Nxf6 16.Qe2 Bd6 17.g3 Rhe8 18.c4 c5 19.Bc3 cxd4 20.Nxd4 a6 21.Kb1 Rd7 =) 15...Nxe4 16.Qxe4 Bd6 Lol. Anyway Nxf6 doesnt seem to get us anywhere. Black just takes back with his knight, and if we play Ne5 immediately, c5 attacks the pinned pawn. Anyway, I don't seem to see whatever "winning chances" that we were supposed to have by playing the h4 line. If someone could show it to me that would be great. + Show Spoiler + You expect White to have a winning advantage 15 moves into a line established by theory as a solid response to the Caro Kann? I doubt we'd be winning with the Nf3 line either. Anyway, we haven't done anything with h5 yet ![]() And lol brain fart with the Ne5. Scratch that move then, and we'll go Rh4 instead ![]() As for g3, I see it as basically a waiting move unless I'm missing something. | ||
malathion
United States361 Posts
The main function of g3 is to threaten an immediate Bf4, which is very annoying. It also takes control of f4 which is useful in some lines where black puts a knight on d5, and anchors h4 for Rh4. tl;dr: Good move all around that accomplishes several useful functions | ||
Incognito
United States2071 Posts
15. g3 | ||
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I know I can't vote since I'm not on the team, but I've been watching all TL chess matches and since now people are complaining about lack of posts, I wanted to share my semi-noob opinion on this. First of all, while g3 seems good, I don't think it's the best idea. It seems kinda forced to me, and you don't need to do it now. There's no way that black can get an "immediate" Bf4, and the knight is not on d5 yet, which means that this move is not necessary just yet. In case a knight goes to d5 or the bishop threatens f4, then you can make the g3 move. If white plays g3, then black can play Kxe4 forcing Qxe4 (which is what I would do pretty much regardless of what white moves), and then perhaps place the bishop on d6 anyway, even if it doesn't threaten f4 immediately. As for right now, I'd play a quiet move, such as Kb1, in order to make an attack on the queen side a bit harder to organize. Right now, a2 seems the only "weak" spot in white's position, even if it's not attacked by anything just yet. Also, it's somewhat "usual" to do this after a 0-0-0 in order to tuck in the king a bit better and make sure all three pawns have some extra coverage. This obviously depends on the placement of other pieces, but I think it would be safe to do it in this game. This also forces black to take initiative for now, while white doesn't have to make any changes to the solid placement of the middle pieces. If black goes Bd5 after this, in order to try Bf4, you can simply trade the Knight on e4 for it with check, forcing a Qd6 and creating a little "breeze" around black's king. After that, a rook on e1 (Rde1) would take control of the open file and white would be in a better position in my eyes. A more interesting alternative after my idea of 15.Kb1 would also be Nc4 16.Nxc4 and then Bxc4, which makes for an interesting placement of the dark squares Bishop, but I don't have a lot of time to analyze this alternative too. I hope this helps in a way. I bold-ed the main ideas to make it easier to read. | ||
Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Played around a little bit with this line and it is pretty interesting. Might be what we need to take down jfazz. I think g3 is not the right move YET, after all we do have the initiative and that is way to pre-emptive for my taste specially versus Caro. And yes jfazz the amount of posts have gone down significantly. Remember the last TL Chess Match was around Christmas time which gave people a lot more free time and when you factor in mid-term season + SC2 beta and getting back into the everyday life gears it's going to take a toll on the amount of people with free time to play chess. | ||
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On February 22 2010 22:12 Arhkangel wrote: I vote Nc4 + Show Spoiler + Played around a little bit with this line and it is pretty interesting. Might be what we need to take down jfazz. I think g3 is not the right move YET, after all we do have the initiative and that is way to pre-emptive for my taste specially versus Caro. And yes jfazz the amount of posts have gone down significantly. Remember the last TL Chess Match was around Christmas time which gave people a lot more free time and when you factor in mid-term season + SC2 beta and getting back into the everyday life gears it's going to take a toll on the amount of people with free time to play chess. Wait I'm confused. Nc4 is not possible. + Show Spoiler + ...and 15. Nc5 leads to Nxc5 which can't be re-captured since the pawn on d4 is pinned to the white Queen by the rook on d8 in this variation. If you mean 15. Nc3, then that can also go into Nc5 which threatens the white queen, and I don't really see an advantage of the white knight on c3. It looks better to me where it is right now so... please go into more detail. | ||
Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
I need to close the other games I'm playing while I read this thread. My apologies. | ||
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On February 23 2010 07:58 Arhkangel wrote: Frak!!! I mean Nxf6 :p I need to close the other games I'm playing while I read this thread. My apologies. + Show Spoiler + With this you're basically trading your e4 knight for his d7 knight (and white's was better placed, so it's a positional advantage for black). Not only that, but then the pawn on d4 will be pinned to the queen which means it's not really covering c5 and e5 until the white queen moves. Overall I think it slightly complicates white's position, even though the material stays even. Not too much though, but I don't see the advantage in doing that. Is there a line I'm missing? But that's just a thought, I was hoping people would jump in with ideas and contradict me, or agree but think of different variations and things like that. Come on TL, don't let this die! | ||
malathion
United States361 Posts
On February 23 2010 08:50 CubEdIn wrote: + Show Spoiler + With this you're basically trading your e4 knight for his d7 knight (and white's was better placed, so it's a positional advantage for black). Not only that, but then the pawn on d4 will be pinned to the queen which means it's not really covering c5 and e5 until the white queen moves. Overall I think it slightly complicates white's position, even though the material stays even. Not too much though, but I don't see the advantage in doing that. Is there a line I'm missing? But that's just a thought, I was hoping people would jump in with ideas and contradict me, or agree but think of different variations and things like that. Come on TL, don't let this die! On top of this, + Show Spoiler + It's generally a bad idea to volunteer trades when you have a space advantage, and I think that generalization holds here- with the good Ne4 traded for the redundant Nd7, the activity of the d8 rook after o-o-o is maximized. This move only improves black's position and not ours. Not a good use of our time. | ||
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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Mystlord
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United States10264 Posts
On February 22 2010 15:46 malathion wrote: + Show Spoiler + The main function of g3 is to threaten an immediate Bf4, which is very annoying. It also takes control of f4 which is useful in some lines where black puts a knight on d5, and anchors h4 for Rh4. tl;dr: Good move all around that accomplishes several useful functions I change my vote to 15. g3. + Show Spoiler + This makes sense. Cramping the kingside even more if you want the game to go that way. | ||
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + We really need the players. With so little active palyers I'm becoming a liability :S Fast! | ||
dozko
United Kingdom160 Posts
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