EPT[Mahjong]Tenhou Thread - Page 45
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UZ75ReP.png) Game link in case you want to see: http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091915gm-0029-0000-bfbf4341&tw=0&ts=8 | ||
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KyuuSC
United States36 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On August 30 2015 00:16 spinesheath wrote: I'm at I won 1 match last month, so I ended that one 1-6-8-5. This month I'm doing way better: 2-5-12-6. It's ridiculous. I'm still playing in the lower dan room like I've been for ages now. But these last 2 months have been nothing but frustrating matches unlike everything I have experienced before. I'm not even losing that much - I just can't win anything. I don't even notice any big or frequent mistakes I'm making. I'm pretty certain that I couldn't possibly be winning as many quick high value hands as my opponents do and I'm almost tempted to actually verify that... | ||
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 26 2015 01:29 Benawii wrote: Spines, if you want, post the game links for at least a few games you lost, and we can take a look and try to see if you make systematic mistakes anywhere. From the results it looks like you might be playing too defensively, but we need to see the replays to verify that. IMO, letting other people review your games is really helpful and we should do it more often. Thanks! Frankly, I was hoping someone would suggest that. My own judgement obviously is clouded by frustration - even though I try to never play when frustrated. + Show Spoiler + 08/23 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082316gm-0089-0000-e2200c56&tw=3 3位 D:spines(-15.0) A:akatm(-53.0) B:ろべかるくん(+63.0) C:momokazu(+5.0) 08/23 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082316gm-0089-0000-9dda0d34&tw=0 4位 A:spines(-52.0) B:オディオ(+50.0) C:isaburou(-12.0) D:ちるぼと(+14.0) 08/23 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082323gm-0089-0000-8184e234&tw=1 2位 B:spines(+12.0) C:bois18(+66.0) D:牌の声が聞える男(-27.0) A:弾耕作(-51.0) 08/24 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082402gm-0089-0000-9106c5f2&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-16.0) B:りつか(-35.0) C:いくらどん(+6.0) D:GoSTraft(+45.0) 08/24 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082403gm-0089-0000-aa86200d&tw=0 4位 A:spines(-43.0) B:東松原(+1.0) C:ハイパリ(-27.0) D:xinsuile(+69.0) 08/25 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082502gm-0089-0000-c77acedd&tw=3 2位 D:spines(+9.0) A:MasA(+45.0) B:なおき79(-35.0) C:pogiro(-19.0) 08/25 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082504gm-0089-0000-3e97d8de&tw=3 3位 D:spines(-20.0) A:arnoux(+46.0) B:バンコク応援団(-35.0) C:にこみ(+9.0) 08/26 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082603gm-0089-0000-5f513ffb&tw=2 3位 C:spines(-17.0) D:inya(+8.0) A:ぬおるじ(+47.0) B:StAnger(-38.0) 08/27 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082703gm-0089-0000-2a90bf4a&tw=0 2位 A:spines(+9.0) B:poppoyaZ(-16.0) C:LYOπ(-33.0) D:NKVD(+40.0) 08/28 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082802gm-0089-0000-f8db64d0&tw=1 3位 B:spines(-20.0) C:joeing(-50.0) D:カルー(+19.0) A:綿菓子職人(+51.0) 08/28 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082802gm-0089-0000-a4bdec0e&tw=1 4位 B:spines(-48.0) C:メビウス０１(+66.0) D:とんちき(-29.0) A:yunno.(+11.0) 08/29 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082922gm-0089-0000-8ba8e3e3&tw=0 2位 A:spines(+6.0) B:gikkuri5(-47.0) C  HILIP(-15.0) D:MOMOTAKA(+56.0)08/29 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082923gm-0089-0000-a390bf46&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-14.0) B:まだい(-57.0) C:COYS(+17.0) D:Ralf(+54.0) 08/30 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015083002gm-0089-0000-a71379d1&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-11.0) B:黒井白子(+10.0) C:チャコティ(+46.0) D:しみきぃ(-45.0) 08/30 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015083020gm-0089-0000-2e59fc96&tw=1 1位 B:spines(+51.0) C:gogogoro(+2.0) D:kotafb(-35.0) A:暢一(-18.0) 09/09 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015090904gm-0089-0000-cbe4dae8&tw=2 4位 C:spines(-55.0) D:カープ兄さん(+92.0) A:りこ嬢ぉ(-7.0) B:爽原子獅(-30.0) 09/10 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091004gm-0089-0000-5784a753&tw=0 4位 A:spines(-52.0) B:r_mmng(+52.0) C:魚谷鮪味(-21.0) D:コウシモ(+21.0) 09/11 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091104gm-0089-0000-34245b19&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-12.0) B:羅剛恩(-55.0) C:7段建築士(+51.0) D:間違の喜劇(+16.0) 09/12 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091216gm-0089-0000-71447140&tw=1 1位 B:spines(+53.0) C:takehopu(-20.0) D:onihei55(+21.0) A:Laura(-54.0) 09/13 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091320gm-0089-0000-5cf8f628&tw=3 3位 D:spines(-15.0) A:CHAPP(+7.0) B:momokazu(+40.0) C:焦肉DN(-32.0) 09/13 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091322gm-0089-0000-b22a3ce4&tw=3 3位 D:spines(-16.0) A:_Sa_ya(-40.0) B:Southksd(+44.0) C:pkm.red(+12.0) 09/14 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091401gm-0089-0000-42618e6b&tw=3 2位 D:spines(+2.0) A:ちょんまげ(-19.0) B  智花*(-38.0) C:saw(+55.0)09/15 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091518gm-0089-0000-307fc1e6&tw=1 3位 B:spines(-24.0) C:shuxgure(+6.0) D:zszsvtzせ(-37.0) A:￥Ｆｉｔ￥(+55.0) 09/15 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091523gm-0089-0000-a33c14af&tw=2 3位 C:spines(-16.0) D:naoayumi(-51.0) A:Sado(+11.0) B:Leia.m(+56.0) 09/16 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091601gm-0089-0000-6e1346a1&tw=2 2位 C:spines(+9.0) D:zxcv5844(-53.0) A:身代り人形(-14.0) B:エピタフ１３(+58.0) 09/16 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091604gm-0089-0000-39e6c5bf&tw=2 2位 C:spines(+17.0) D:Bouli-T(-46.0) A:ゆっくりのんびり(-25.0) B:ツモツモツモツモ(+54.0) 09/16 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091616gm-0089-0000-5a615d77&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-18.0) B:パワーメジャー(-36.0) C:chico(+5.0) D:凡人健ちゃん(+49.0) 09/17 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091719gm-0089-0000-fc1a0481&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-16.0) B:y-tatsuo(-31.0) C:ちょんまげ(+5.0) D:medama(+42.0) 09/18 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091800gm-0089-0000-05cec28a&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-19.0) B:mnbtshy(+4.0) C:ヒモ(-36.0) D:ふぇぇ変な液出る(+51.0) 09/18 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091802gm-0089-0000-520ca531&tw=3 3位 D:spines(-23.0) A:スリーインワン(+50.0) B:banri90(-35.0) C:いろはじゃん(+8.0) 09/18 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091818gm-0089-0000-d05e9ea6&tw=0 4位 A:spines(-43.0) B:雀アレジω(-23.0) C:シューマイチャン(+54.0) D:天に星(+12.0) 09/18 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091820gm-0089-0000-95791cd4&tw=0 2位 A:spines(+13.0) B:風花雪月(-17.0) C:Goru(-47.0) D:OMOCHI(+51.0) 09/19 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091900gm-0089-0000-b4b1edf7&tw=0 2位 A:spines(+10.0) B:Northest(+47.0) C:副作用４番(-43.0) D:rinmao(-14.0) 09/19 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015091902gm-0089-0000-a8bacb5a&tw=1 1位 B:spines(+46.0) C:Kiina(+14.0) D:482118(-36.0) A:tarou.k(-24.0) 09/21 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092100gm-0089-0000-d2c9e8b6&tw=0 3位 A:spines(-21.0) B:shido2(+1.0) C:httpwdr(-52.0) D:wton.d.d(+72.0) 09/21 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092101gm-0089-0000-f516dc30&tw=2 4位 C:spines(-44.0) D:A型男子(+67.0) A:胡蝶剣Ⅲ(+11.0) B:nyama(-34.0) 09/22 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092221gm-0089-0000-ec919ede&tw=1 3位 B:spines(-30.0) C:冬眠羽(-41.0) D:まるとごん(+15.0) A:りゅーちゃん(+56.0) 09/23 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092322gm-0089-0000-c5880147&tw=2 3位 C:spines(-22.0) D:館カフェ(+44.0) A:がちこうむち(-34.0) B:RtDome(+12.0) 09/25 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092502gm-0089-0000-4257c4d1&tw=3 4位 D:spines(-37.0) A:後藤信康(+44.0) B:ハローこんにちは(-22.0) C:lua(+15.0) 09/25 | 牌譜 | 上南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092520gm-0089-0000-3c048c47&tw=3 4位 D:spines(-43.0) A:eichan15(-25.0) B:ダンデライチ(+14.0) C:kuro16(+54.0) | ||
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + East 1 Turn 3 (draws 6m): You are the dealer, so you want to get to tenpai as soon as possible. Most of the time your shanten number should never increase. Sanshoku is not an option here because it will slow you down. Three groups are pretty much set in stone, 789p, 56s, and 999s. With 8s next to 999s that group can turn into pair + group relatively easily (if you draw 7s then one of 4578s will do the trick). 6679m is your potential fourth group + pair. You need to discard 5p here. East 2-0 Turn 5 (draws another 6s): Don't view 4566778m as two complete groups plus one extra tile. This is an extremely good shape which can be viewed as 4567 + 678m or 456 + 6778m. Both can easily turn into 3 groups if you draw one of 35689m. You should discard 2s here. At turn 11 (draws 8s), you should discard 2s because 668s can turn into 678s. It also gives you slightly better chance of chiitoitsu tenpai. East 3-1 Turn 8 (draws 3s): Not sure why you discarded 7s. The only correct discard here is pei (North). East 4-0 Turn 5 (draws another 7m): It's true that two 7p are out, but with your 4p discard it makes a good suji trap. Between 3m and 7m I would discard 3m because 7m gives you a small chance of iipeikou and one of each 124m is out already. South 1-0 Turn 7 (draws 3m): Pairs are easy to get, so don't break your 999s. Discard 1s or 2s. South 4 Turn 4 (draws first 9m): To avoid last place, either the dealer has to deal into your mangan or the game has to continue to the next round. So, your goal is to make a mangan hand and hope the dealer deals in. If that does not happen you should at least be in tenpai. Do this while avoiding dealing into anyone. Your best bet to getting a mangan hand would be the dora chun. It should be the last thing you discard from your hand. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 26 2015 07:27 Benawii wrote: Looks like your biggest problem is tile efficiency. Instead of giving general guidelines I think it is better to delve into specific situations. Here are my comments from this game: http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015082316gm-0089-0000-9dda0d34&tw=0. + Show Spoiler + East 1 Turn 3 (draws 6m): You are the dealer, so you want to get to tenpai as soon as possible. Most of the time your shanten number should never increase. Sanshoku is not an option here because it will slow you down. Three groups are pretty much set in stone, 789p, 56s, and 999s. With 8s next to 999s that group can turn into pair + group relatively easily (if you draw 7s then one of 4578s will do the trick). 6679m is your potential fourth group + pair. You need to discard 5p here. East 2-0 Turn 5 (draws another 6s): Don't view 4566778m as two complete groups plus one extra tile. This is an extremely good shape which can be viewed as 4567 + 678m or 456 + 6778m. Both can easily turn into 3 groups if you draw one of 35689m. You should discard 2s here. At turn 11 (draws 8s), you should discard 2s because 668s can turn into 678s. It also gives you slightly better chance of chiitoitsu tenpai. East 3-1 Turn 8 (draws 3s): Not sure why you discarded 7s. The only correct discard here is pei (North). East 4-0 Turn 5 (draws another 7m): It's true that two 7p are out, but with your 4p discard it makes a good suji trap. Between 3m and 7m I would discard 3m because 7m gives you a small chance of iipeikou and one of each 124m is out already. South 1-0 Turn 7 (draws 3m): Pairs are easy to get, so don't break your 999s. Discard 1s or 2s. South 4 Turn 4 (draws first 9m): To avoid last place, either the dealer has to deal into your mangan or the game has to continue to the next round. So, your goal is to make a mangan hand and hope the dealer deals in. If that does not happen you should at least be in tenpai. Do this while avoiding dealing into anyone. Your best bet to getting a mangan hand would be the dora chun. It should be the last thing you discard from your hand. Thanks! For some of these I really don't quite know why I did it like that. Especially that 3-1 turn 8 one is super weird. I'll have to find out why I am doing that. I'll probably also do some actual uke ire counting practice as your points suggest that my judgement is off in that area. I don't actually count much, I mostly play by instinct. | ||
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
Also, one way to practice by yourself is to look at replays of high-level players. Try to guess what the player will discard in each turn. If the actual discard made is something you would not discard, then stop and think why the player discarded it. For different ways to get these replays see https://www.reddit.com/r/Mahjong/comments/3lttig/how_to_find_good_tenhou_replays/. | ||
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merchant01
3 Posts
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
On September 28 2015 02:24 merchant01 wrote: I am still in the process of verifying Tenhou's ranking algorithm but once I have done so, I may post my findings here. So far, it is still going on track within my current expectations. I still have about 1100 games left to play. I hope to hit 7 dan this time. Played over 8000 games, mostly east only games. Still doing everything i can do avoid bullshit 4th place finishes. Are you talking about the R rating system? The formula is known and it's probably correct. Also it's not very important unless you play in a lower room than your current level. 1100, huh? That's actually not too bad for east-only games. I imagine the variance would be pretty high though. With some luck you might hit 7 dan much earlier than that. | ||
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merchant01
3 Posts
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
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merchant01
3 Posts
On September 29 2015 02:43 Benawii wrote: Then you mean the dan/points system. Isn't that quite straightforward? There's a table for it in the Tenhou manual. No. These elements are irrelevant. What the most important thing is tracking a specific amount of games and tracking your 1st and 4th place. These are part of the algorithm. Tsuno tracks cheaters by checking the 4th place % at specific points. Each rooms have specific high and low cap % on 1st and 4th place. Generally higher level rooms have lower 1st place cap % and higher 4th place cap %. Hearthstone uses the similar type of algorithm using percentage caps over a set of games. out of those two, Tenhou has the worst grind amount. | ||
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Benawii
United States51 Posts
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KyuuSC
United States36 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fQhfty4.jpg) | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Anyways, I just found a link to this on Osamuko's blog: A Mahjong Strategy Primer for European Players by Daina Chiba (if anyone knows that person, never heard the name before). It also says "Riichi Book I", which suggests that there is more to come  Haven't read it yet, but I'm looking forward to. Also, if you haven't heard yet, there was an Akagi drama series aired a while ago. It only covers Washizu Mahjong, but this time with real people. And fake blood, I guess. Update on the book: You can safely skip to page 80 / chapter 3 if you are a regular on tenhou already. That first part only explains how to play there. It also covers some interesting information about tenhou itself and a vague comparision on how ranks there compare to japanese mahjong parlors and leagues. There's also an explanation for the stats screen. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
I actually came back month ago after my ragequit and intended to post after I reach 4 Dan again, but I'm prodding water ineffectively atm. Hard to find something to talk about. The book does give some interesting recommendations - the fact one of its inspirations is "Utahime Obakamiko" is plus for me, since it's first external material that actually shaped my current Mahjong playing style. Although the manga I do not believe translates perfectly into the doctrine Tenhou demands. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IvksQc4.png) That was... interesting. Half way through the match tacwan was ahead by over 70000 points. I managed to reduce that all the way down to ~3000 points. The match was terminated because those other guys (hardly noticed them) went flying with my last tsumo. | ||
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