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On February 25 2010 17:25 Azerbaijan wrote:Hey everyone, I'm a fairly new LoL player; happened upon this thread just a few days ago, sounded fun so I gave it a try. I played DotA for a long time and I have to say that in my opinion, LoL is far superior in every way. Anyways, I played with the weekly free characters until I had enough to buy Ashe (seemed like a good choice as the Drow Ranger was my first choice in DotA) and so far I feel I have done well. I stand at 16 wins, 9 losses, 256 kills, 91 deaths, and 245 assists. I worry though that this may be only because I have been matched against terrible players lol. I have recently run into a problem of sorts. I wanted to have a tank character so I could fill the role in case no one else in the pubs I play in wanted to, so I purchased Amumu.I found this guide on leaguecraft and tried it out. The build it gives starts with a Heart of Gold and then moves to Merc Treads or Ninja Tabi and next revolves around stacking sunfire capes, with deviations for Thornmail or Banshee's Veil if needed. I found myself feeling extremely uncomfortable with it. I'm not sure if the build isn't viable or maybe I'm just approaching it incorrectly. So if anyone has any experience with Amumu and has some good nice tanking builds for him and even helpful tips in general I'd love to hear all about it =D My in game ID is Azerbaijan if anyone wants to add me to that list on the first page, assuming it is still being updated. Currently level 10 and moving on up! I love this game =D
there was discussion on amumu a couple pages back in this thread if you care to look into it. The end of the discussion was about jungling amumu, which I started trying out and just getting completely run over with, so I'll give you my old laning amumu build since it's what I feel comfortable talking about...
I usually go teleport and flash for my summoner spells. Masteries are a mix of defensive and utility (i think both 0/9/21 and 0/21/9 are viable on him, just depends how you plan on playing), but at the lower levels when you don't have as much to give in masteries, I'd say just stack defensive to stack with your tantrum passive. First Item I get is regrowth pendant which lets me stay out on my first lane for a long time. I open my skills with tantrum -> bandage toss -> tantrum -> despair -> tantrum -> curse and then focus on 1. curse 2. tantrum 3. toss 4. despair. Before your first trip back, you're really just looking to use tantrum to last hit creeps and farm some gold. Since you don't open any mana regen or gain with this build, you have to be judicious with your tantrums, but I've never really had a problem doing so. The goal is that on your first trip back you can at least get philosopher's stone and hopefully also basic boots. Once you get your stone, I usually immediately go after my team's golem buff with despair. After I get the buff, I'll start leading in vs. creep waves and spamming tantrum to farm towards upgrading to ninja tabi or merc treads (tabi vs. attack damage heavy teams, treads otherwise) an my next item which is usually a sunfire cape, but sometimes a spirit visage if I need magic resist (all the other buffs from visage are nice on amumu too). If I go visage first, I work towards a sunfire cape next, if I go cape first I play the game by ear and either stack capes if I'm not dying in team fights and just want extra damage output or start stacking defensive items if I find myself going down too easily in team fights.
So I guess my build boils down to either:
regrowth
philly stone + boots
treads/tabi + cape/spirit visage
cape
cape
cape
or
regrowth
philly stone + boots
treads/tabi + cape/spirit visage
cape/spirit visage (whichever I didn't get before)
frozen heart/force of nature (whichever I need more)
warmog's
frozen heart/force of nature (whichever I didn't get before)
These builds are pretty scrubby and good players will chastise you for them (especially for the philosopher's stone), but they've been pretty effective for me.
Beginner tips on playing:
1. Toss -> Curse -> tantrum is rape in team fights, but always make sure to turn despair on before getting into the thick of things to maximize your AoE damage output.
2. Once you have philly stone, if there's no good lane for farming, jungling is a good option to stay on top of your build and keep up in level.
3. If there's a huge creep-only push after you hit level 9 (level 5 tantrum), you can solo it super super easy by just running in there and spamming tantrum due to the damage redux and cooldown redux on getting hit.
4. Despair is awesome at jungling buff creeps and dragon and even if you're not doing a jungling build, you can solo dragon with level 1 despair pretty damn early (level 7 or 8ish) with golem buff (turn on despair, toss him, spam tantum and auto attack, toss when it's off CD).
5. Your purpose in life is to initiate, snare the whole other team, absorb a bunch of damage, die and get 5 assists. Don't get discouraged if you're dying a lot so long as you're always snaring the other team and costing them valuable time they could've spent attacking your dpser and doing nice AoE burst damage to setup for kills.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
if you want good amumu advice, see if you can friend list Blacksurt and ask him for advice, he plays an extremely good carry amumu. its an AP/tank build that really works. you lane until about level 4 and then demolish the jungle, I think he runs smite/flash. his build ends up looking like mejai's/abysmal sceptre/frozenheart/merc treads/heart of gold/banshee veil
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@ Mogwai
Thanks a lot! Just tried out your build and went 9/3/15. To be specific I went for the second build you listed. Although I skipped the Spirit Visage and went for two capes and then the Frozen Heart. Was going for Force of Nature next because their Ryze had been fed a bit and was really bringing the pain. I ended up trading in my Tabi for the Merc Treads before that to get some MR a little earlier. Not sure if it was the most efficient choice but the game ended before I was able to complete my Force of Nature.
Thanks so much for the tips!
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glad I could help!
For the record you should almost always go merc treads. If the other team has more than 2 or 3 disables that are shortened by merc treads, I will pretty much always get them (also if they have a teemo, rofl). Basically, 95% of the time, even thinking about not getting merc treads is pointless because they're so good (at least on the characters I play, I know some people swear by sorc shoes and boots of mobility on certain heroes).
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On February 25 2010 20:07 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 19:53 ShloobeR wrote:
You'll hear this a lot but if you want to be a cheap tank who is extremely effective then go for alistair... he's only 450IP I believe and he is quite simply the best tank initiator in the game.
I haven't played much Amumu because I rarely find an amumu on the other team who is effective, he's a good initiator but after his ult is blow he hasn't got much left to dictate a fight Why does everyone call him Alistair? It's AliSTAR, with no I, but everyone fucking does it. Also if you play Alistar be prepared to win while never getting a kill.
I get kills on Alistar.... Then again, I go Deathfire Grasp/Sheen on Alistar sooo lulz
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On February 26 2010 07:05 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 20:07 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On February 25 2010 19:53 ShloobeR wrote:
You'll hear this a lot but if you want to be a cheap tank who is extremely effective then go for alistair... he's only 450IP I believe and he is quite simply the best tank initiator in the game.
I haven't played much Amumu because I rarely find an amumu on the other team who is effective, he's a good initiator but after his ult is blow he hasn't got much left to dictate a fight Why does everyone call him Alistair? It's AliSTAR, with no I, but everyone fucking does it. Also if you play Alistar be prepared to win while never getting a kill. I get kills on Alistar.... Then again, I go Deathfire Grasp/Sheen on Alistar sooo lulz
it's cool, with an ult like that, you don't need any tanking gear to tank better than everyone else.
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On February 26 2010 07:16 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 07:05 StorkHwaiting wrote:On February 25 2010 20:07 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On February 25 2010 19:53 ShloobeR wrote:
You'll hear this a lot but if you want to be a cheap tank who is extremely effective then go for alistair... he's only 450IP I believe and he is quite simply the best tank initiator in the game.
I haven't played much Amumu because I rarely find an amumu on the other team who is effective, he's a good initiator but after his ult is blow he hasn't got much left to dictate a fight Why does everyone call him Alistair? It's AliSTAR, with no I, but everyone fucking does it. Also if you play Alistar be prepared to win while never getting a kill. I get kills on Alistar.... Then again, I go Deathfire Grasp/Sheen on Alistar sooo lulz it's cool, with an ult like that, you don't need any tanking gear to tank better than everyone else.
haha yah the AP is cool for heals, but once that ult runs out >.<. Not the best build on Ali i'm sure lol. I haven't played nearly enough games with him to see what works.
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TL-ID - kcaz -> LoL ID - Tarnas
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Whats the opinion on the new champ? seems pretty damn useless from what ive seen of him :p
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Melee hero with no disable.
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He's perfectly unspectacularly well-balanced.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
he either dominates or feeds due to his character design. if he gets the kill with his ult, hes scary as fuck, if not, hes pretty ignorable. taking ignite on him is a must. id say to run ghost/ignite or flash/ignite on him. the good ones ive seen rush force of nature and warmogs since he doesnt even need damage to farm, and then you get a mallet/bloodthirster. then hes pretty much unkillable as his late game is pretty damn good.
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Exhaust/ignite is a good choice too, you really need a disable without a built-in one because your teamfight game is to just take down one character and turn it into a 6v4.
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Do you think he will be viable in a higher leveled skill bracket? I definitely feel like he has potentital compared to other champs if he gets exhasut/ignite. These two spells give him some damage other than his spells that he needs, and if he gets a kill with his ulti, his team cam dominate.
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he's viable in laning stage and not terrible in teamfights, he really needs a snare though. maybe on his pbaoe siphon skill.
add me to the list too please, swiftterror in lol
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On February 26 2010 20:33 mptj wrote:
Do you think he will be viable in a higher leveled skill bracket? I definitely feel like he has potentital compared to other champs if he gets exhasut/ignite. These two spells give him some damage other than his spells that he needs, and if he gets a kill with his ulti, his team cam dominate.
Not really, because he has no CC; at best he's like a tier 3 because he's a DPS hero like Ryze, but I wouldn't even consider him scarier than Ryze, who's still considered a subpar hero at top-tier play. (Udyr is tier 4 by most standards, and I'd take Udyr on my team over Mord in the blink of an eye, 9 times out of 10)
All that said top-tier play is pretty far off, and I wouldn't fret that much over it. Personally he's on a step between Shaco (50-50 hero) and the aforementioned Mundo/Yi/Trynd line (terribad). I don't like playing with him, and playing against him is like yay, but he's perfectly capable of thrashing newbies/feeders and wrecking a game that way.
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my perception of top tier play is that it's decidedly less fun than mid tier play... The thought of a bunch of teams sporting a large number of AoE CCs and team fights boiling down to which team ends up in control of their characters while the other team is disabled for a couple seconds and gets futtbucked just doesn't appeal to me.
I dunno, maybe my perception is off and it's interesting when you get into it, but the impression I've got is that I wouldn't really want to get too competitive with this game.
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Agreed, and a lot of that is because Riot needs to do SOMEthing to stop the 5-man gank squads from dominating the game. As it is, at top-tier play that's the *only viable strategy,* which makes the mass AoE/CCs the "only way to go."
My problem with Mord stems largely from the fact that melee heroes in this game have a pressing need to fulfill multiple roles. After all, melee heroes can and will take the full brunt of "random damage," for instance if an Ashe volleys a Trist the melee heroes are very likely to take the volleys too, just as if Fiddle attacks a carry the melee hero will most likely inadvertently soak up the entire duration of the ult. And because of the crucial, but glass-cannon nature of ranged heroes (of which produce on the whole greater damage and/or teamfight effects via AoE/CC), melee heroes are also expected to protect these back-liners.
That's why a hero like Poppy or Mord (both of which look the same to me) are considered pretty subpar. Poppy in particular is often a detriment to your team in a teamfight, because it's a melee hero that avoids taking damage. Except against retards, but that's a different story. A decent team will see Poppy, and if the Poppy has proven itself to be a good player, will simply look past it and attack your team. Which is great and all but that means one less "wall" for them to worry about - you'd better hope your team has two "walls" to offset the massive amount of hate incoming toward your team's fragile heroes.
Unfortunately this also means you're almost certain to need like a 3 melee 2 range setup on your team, which further means one lane is going to have a double melee lane; I mean it's possible, but it really limits the sort of lineup you can field while still being "competitive." And Poppy's not even *that strong* that it's worth revolving your lineup around.
More often than not you'll just find that your team gets overwhelmed 5v4 before Poppy can make her mark, either because you don't have the necessary walls to prevent the fight being turned into like a 4vPoppy+Tank, or at least one of your lanes gets wrecked, etc.
Mord feels like the same sort of problem. You can do okay with him, but the existence of Mord/Poppy/other similar hero on your team starts limiting the sort of lineup you can field against a decent team. For example, once I picked Nidalee (gasp!) on a team with Poppy. Compared to a game where, say, if I had a Blitz and Alist, where I can focus on damage, with Poppy I have to build as a tank with Nidalee. It's just, bleh. Team handcuffs.
Edit:
I need to be given stuff to do at work ;;
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lol, yea... my office is pretty empty due to snow today so I don't have much to do either :p
what's your feeling on pantheon in that light? he's easily my best character and I absolutely love playing him, but I can't figure out exactly how viable he is (i know most tier lists put him on the very tail end of viablity). having a stun is useful, even if it's only 1 sec and his AoE damage output off of a well placed level 5 heartseeker with even just 1 BF Sword is pretty absurd. But again, even with his passive and some peripheral attention to preventing damage, he is still a melee hero who can't afford to take damage. I've found that if I don't end up carrying, I'm most useful to my team if I focus my attention after the 1st BF Sword on survivability and support items (i.e. boots -> B F Sword -> Starks + Treads -> Veil -> then focus on stacking damage), but this sorta seem to be forcing him in a direction that his base stats don't really support (sorta a support/chaser/pusher). I dunno, he just seems to fill such an awkward role on teams if you don't get early kills to support a greedy attack damage build.
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Pantheons have kinda disappeared from my recent matches, for better or for worse. I've only played him a few times, and I kinda sucked at him, but I can safely say I don't really fear him. Honestly, when I die to him, no matter what hero I'm playing, it's never "oh my god Pantheon is strong!" but rather "damn, I messed up" (usually means I was on low hp and playing greedy instead of going back to heal). That probably doesn't speak too highly as to his general damage output. Im fairly certain most people feel the same.
If you're good at him though, keep using him, until you start finding that you're absolutely being crushed. Just laying that out there: I have great win rates with Ashe and Udyr but they're both supposed to be "average" heroes.
In terms of melee heroes as a whole, I tend to feel like you only have time to make one pure DPS item. Even better if you don't have to make any at all. That's why Udyr and Jax and Nasus (and a few other heroes) are theoretically pretty strong as hybrid tank/DPS melee. They have built-in damage output via skills that make it so you need very, very little investment in damage to make your mark. When I play Udyr, for instance, my only "pure DPS" item is Malady, everything else is tanking gear. Jax is similar, although I still kinda prefer Udyr because he can tank faster and gank better (stun-on-call is nice compared to a stun-that-sometimes-never-comes-during-a-fight). Nasus, as has been mentioned before, functions just fine with Sheen/Trinity Force - you can dump the rest of your money on tanking gear.
The question for Pantheon is whether his skills innately support his damage output or his tanking prowess. From my experience the answer is neither, as Heartseeker is only good for finishing, his stun does no damage and is too short, and the active Heartseeker is only a marginal increase to DPS. So he ends up being this tank that no one cares about, because if you leave him alone he'll do nothing, except maybe vulture a few kills on weakened heroes.
It's why some people at mid-high Elos think his only use is via using Frozen Mallet and Atma's Impaler. At least that way he'll tank, be a nuisance, output "okay" damage, and be able to kamikaze backdoor.
But that's just my personal experience. I've never lost because a Pantheon went insane, nor have I ever won thanks to one.
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EPT
