EPT
NBA 09-10: The Roundball Rock - Page 93
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 05 2010 04:34 Ace wrote: Actually no, that just means Kobe had to struggle on 35 shots. Which means the rest of the team probably suffered If Kobe goes 12-35 the rest of his team played like ass as well because he shouldnt need to be taking that many shots. My point is that at the end of the game certain players are unguardable. What you do to them early on means almsot nothing. The goal should be imo to keep the game in reach (ideally youd build a lead duh) and let your star take over at the end. IMO its the reason we see the same teams win every year and there are so few upsets in the NBA compared to other sports. Sure there are dreadful shooting nights but the real game happens with 5 minutes left where each possession is a premium and thats where the great players offense > great defense. Obviously great defense will shut down scrubs, but you can play great defense and people will still hit shots in your face and you cant really do much about it. Its like in the NFL where theres really no defense for a perfect pass. NBA games seem meaningless until the last 5 minutes I guess is the jist of my point. It may be an unpopular opinion. Big leads get lost in the NBA all the time. So its basically a wash at the end anyway. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 05 2010 04:00 Zozma wrote: But isn't that just the point? Even if you defend Kobe perfectly, he's gonna make most of his shots anyway. He's just that good. That's not most of his shots. When you put Kobe into that mode (which I've seen defenders do), he ends up making his team worse. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 05 2010 04:56 Judicator wrote: More like it makes sense when you apply that logic to Kobe, and then you think of Iverson and cringe... Iverson had a worse team than Kobe ever had  If Kobe goes 12-35 the rest of his team played like ass as well because he shouldnt need to be taking that many shots. My point is that at the end of the game certain players are unguardable. What you do to them early on means almsot nothing. The goal should be imo to keep the game in reach (ideally youd build a lead duh) and let your star take over at the end. IMO its the reason we see the same teams win every year and there are so few upsets in the NBA compared to other sports. Sure there are dreadful shooting nights but the real game happens with 5 minutes left where each possession is a premium and thats where the great players offense > great defense. While it's true that end game moments make some players ridiculous, the first 45 minutes of great defenses means you sometimes don't even see that moment. Remember the Bos-LA series? How many times did Kobe ever have a chance to get into unstoppable crunch mode? Not many. And even so a juggernaut defense that holds a superstar to 30 points on bad shooting when he needs 40 to beat you means the D did it's job. What you to do them early means HEAPS. Breaking their rhythm and making them work for every single shot goes a long way. As for the reason we see the same teams win often it's just a product of the NBAs management and basketball itself. Great teams win a lot because it's very hard to win bo5 and then bo7 against a favored opponent. If you have great D you can pretty much grant yourself 2 wins off the bat.In the playoffs every possession counts so whether it's the last 5 minutes or the first 5 the stars are going to take off. Obviously great defense will shut down scrubs, but you can play great defense and people will still hit shots in your face and you cant really do much about it. Its like in the NFL where theres really no defense for a perfect pass. I partially agree. There will be times where you play great defense and the guy hits the shot. What about the next 4 times? It's VERY rare to see a superstar player of even Kobe's level take over a series vs great defenses and come out on top. As for the last sentence I definitely don't agree ^_^. NBA games go down to the wire because of simple things like benches being full of scrubs, bad coaching and just players getting lax. But how is that different from any other sport? Wouldn't hockey be just as meaningless when most teams are only scoring 3,4,5 goals so everything should be meaningless until the last 5 minutes? Same thing in football right? Neither of those sports have a point system as favorable as basketball so why doesn't that apply to them? | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 05 2010 05:49 Ace wrote: Iverson had a worse team than Kobe ever had While it's true that end game moments make some players ridiculous, the first 45 minutes of great defenses means you sometimes don't even see that moment. Remember the Bos-LA series? How many times did Kobe ever have a chance to get into unstoppable crunch mode? Not many. And even so a juggernaut defense that holds a superstar to 30 points on bad shooting when he needs 40 to beat you means the D did it's job. What you to do them early means HEAPS. Breaking their rhythm and making them work for every single shot goes a long way. As for the reason we see the same teams win often it's just a product of the NBAs management and basketball itself. Great teams win a lot because it's very hard to win bo5 and then bo7 against a favored opponent. If you have great D you can pretty much grant yourself 2 wins off the bat.In the playoffs every possession counts so whether it's the last 5 minutes or the first 5 the stars are going to take off. I partially agree. There will be times where you play great defense and the guy hits the shot. What about the next 4 times? It's VERY rare to see a superstar player of even Kobe's level take over a series vs great defenses and come out on top. As for the last sentence I definitely don't agree ^_^. NBA games go down to the wire because of simple things like benches being full of scrubs, bad coaching and just players getting lax. But how is that different from any other sport? Wouldn't hockey be just as meaningless when most teams are only scoring 3,4,5 goals so everything should be meaningless until the last 5 minutes? Same thing in football right? Neither of those sports have a point system as favorable as basketball so why doesn't that apply to them? Its the nature of the game at the professional level imo. In college you cant overcome those huge ass leads as often. Because goals are so important in hockey and soccer it means that the game is important for the entire game. Because so many points are scored in basketball and at the NBA level the games are pretty decently close near the end (i mean its not like teams are winning by 15+ every night. The point differential is relatively small afaik) Its probably due to bad coaching and bad players on the bench like you say. But that doesnt change the way it currently is. Dont get me wrong I love watching the NBA when I get a chance because the talent of the players is so sick. I also disagree about every possesion counting in the playoffs. Down the stretch yes and thats why the better team wins. Players take plays off and shit just happens during the course of the game to make the first 3 quarters kind of unimportant. Why do you think we see so many runs in the NBA? Big leads dont mean much unless they are astronimical or there is a big discrepency in talent. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
For instance, there are great offensive players that will score 30 points, yet are so good defensively they could easily give up 60 points to themselves. Yet, who are they playing against? Zach Randolph might easily get 20/10 against a Francisco Oberto. But how many points is Oberto going to get against Zach No-D Randolph? Probably not much. On the flip side, Oberto's considered "an okay player" because he's pretty decent defensively. So what is he, like a 10/-10? Well how does that work out against a Zach Randolph? It's why Bill Simmons is always ranting about how the NBA keeps track of no statistics when the game is filled with a lot of potential statistical musings. It's also why you tend to see big differences in coaching in the post-season... certain coaches will really work the matchups, like setting Kobe to defend Melo while attacking a PG, etc. while lackadaiscal coaches will just go straight zone and pray, or go man position PF on PF etc. and pray, that sort of thing. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
DWade just tried one of these. Wasn't quite the same. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 05 2010 05:54 Sadist wrote: I also disagree about every possesion counting in the playoffs. Down the stretch yes and thats why the better team wins. Players take plays off and shit just happens during the course of the game to make the first 3 quarters kind of unimportant. Why do you think we see so many runs in the NBA? Big leads dont mean much unless they are astronimical or there is a big discrepency in talent. Points are worth the same minute 2 and 42. You can win the game in the third quarter and you can win it in the fourth. Players that take plays off usually aren't playing defense, since it is more about effort than talent than offense is. That's like saying it doesn't matter if you get up 10 in the third if they make a 10-0 run to start the fourth. No, if you don't go up 10 then you're down -10 later on. Look at the shot Kobe hit over Wallace in G2. It was a great shot and he had a good night, but even that night he was 1-5 on threes. Defense the rest of the night is what allowed it to go into OT when the Pistons had an abysmal night. On average, as we've seen with most of the NBA champions this decade, great defense beats great offense. On an individual play, I'm sure if you actually did a statistical analysis of 1 on 1 scenarios (say, Carmelo's shot over Lebron last week), the defender would be on the winning end. They just don't get as much credit because it's not as exciting as a game winner. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 05 2010 12:44 Xeris wrote: Kobe is a g The shot selection between him and Wade has made me cry this game. Especially Wade since his aren't going in. | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
On March 05 2010 04:58 Jibba wrote: Ah, I mis-read it as 12-25 last night. my badThat's not most of his shots. When you put Kobe into that mode (which I've seen defenders do), he ends up making his team worse. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
On March 05 2010 04:58 Jibba wrote: That's not most of his shots. When you put Kobe into that mode (which I've seen defenders do), he ends up making his team worse. i have to agree yay lakers lost. nice try but no banana | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
better draft pick ftw! i mean seriously this team is trash, at least TRY to get wall or evan turner PLEASE. and for god's sake play spreights more. I swear willie green must be the worst player averaging 20 mpg | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
Baseball Soccer Boxing etc The jazz hella came back hell yeah :D lol | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
btw: happy bday ace! | ||
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