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On February 20 2012 03:01 nekolux wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 02:53 Apoth wrote: Now you want to bring up correlation. Please understand that correlation does not equal causation. By rule of logic, you can never argue that since Flash is better at BW than MVP that Flash will automatically be better at SC2 than MVP because correlation does not equal causation. If you don't understand that concept in argumentation--then you really don't know how to argue. That's not correlation/causation, it's more of extreme extrapolation. The only way we will know if Flash is better than MVP at StarCraft 2 is if/when he switches over. Given his obvious RTS talent, it's not impossible. Correlation/causation would be: Flash does activity X (say, eat crisps) more than any other progamer, Flash also is the best Brood War player. Therefore, the more crisps you eat, the better at Brood war you are (or admittedly, the better at brood war you are, the more crisps you eat). i.e the correlation between Flash's eating crisps and his skill means they are intertwined. Welcome to irony, calling out someone for poor reasoning then screwing up that reasoning yourself. However, I also to some extent agree with you. The actual point you make does hold, there is no 100% guarantee Flash would destroy MVP. Given that he is as well all know exceptionally gifted at RTS, he would almost undoubtedly be straight at the top skill level, but can we really predict he smashes through the best players in the world immediately? Seems possible, even likely from certain viewpoints, but not certain. Are playing BW and playing SC2 not 2 different acitivites? =) They are similar in the sense that they are both strategy games but he deals with that in a later point.
It's not the two activities that makes it correlation. If you have set of people who are average at brood war AND Starcraft two, and a set of people who are good at both, and a set of people whop are bad at both, that would show strong correlation between the two. It's all about the data 
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On February 24 2012 16:17 Apoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 03:01 nekolux wrote:On February 20 2012 02:53 Apoth wrote: Now you want to bring up correlation. Please understand that correlation does not equal causation. By rule of logic, you can never argue that since Flash is better at BW than MVP that Flash will automatically be better at SC2 than MVP because correlation does not equal causation. If you don't understand that concept in argumentation--then you really don't know how to argue. That's not correlation/causation, it's more of extreme extrapolation. The only way we will know if Flash is better than MVP at StarCraft 2 is if/when he switches over. Given his obvious RTS talent, it's not impossible. Correlation/causation would be: Flash does activity X (say, eat crisps) more than any other progamer, Flash also is the best Brood War player. Therefore, the more crisps you eat, the better at Brood war you are (or admittedly, the better at brood war you are, the more crisps you eat). i.e the correlation between Flash's eating crisps and his skill means they are intertwined. Welcome to irony, calling out someone for poor reasoning then screwing up that reasoning yourself. However, I also to some extent agree with you. The actual point you make does hold, there is no 100% guarantee Flash would destroy MVP. Given that he is as well all know exceptionally gifted at RTS, he would almost undoubtedly be straight at the top skill level, but can we really predict he smashes through the best players in the world immediately? Seems possible, even likely from certain viewpoints, but not certain. Are playing BW and playing SC2 not 2 different acitivites? =) They are similar in the sense that they are both strategy games but he deals with that in a later point. It's not the two activities that makes it correlation. If you have set of people who are average at brood war AND Starcraft two, and a set of people who are good at both, and a set of people whop are bad at both, that would show strong correlation between the two. It's all about the data
If you set people in three groups, practice 1 hour a week, 1 hour a day, and 8 hours a day, and measure their success, you will find an even stronger correlation. Just because you are good at BW does not mean you will be good at SC2. Silly thread. I would say the correlation you mentioned would be poor, because success is dependent on practice.
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Overhyping.. See Boxer, nada, fin, July, etc. The faith of the other bw pros including flash will be similar IMO.
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On February 28 2012 12:09 xeo1 wrote:
Overhyping.. See Boxer, nada, fin, July, etc. The faith of the other bw pros including flash will be similar IMO.
If the other BW pros fail, elephant defenders will just say that they are already in decline.
It's like head I win, tails you lose.
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On February 28 2012 12:47 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 12:09 xeo1 wrote:
Overhyping.. See Boxer, nada, fin, July, etc. The faith of the other bw pros including flash will be similar IMO. If the other BW pros fail, elephant defenders will just say that they are already in decline. It's like head I win, tails you lose.
In decline? =S Boxer nada an July had near zero air time at time of switching =S.
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Maruprime is a bigger threat to the sc2 competative scene than any former bw pro. He handled ForGG like a seasoned pro.....kids 14.
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On March 03 2012 11:08 dsousa wrote:
Maruprime is a bigger threat to the sc2 competative scene than any former bw pro. He handled ForGG like a seasoned pro.....kids 14.
Flash won an OSL at 15....jus' sayin'
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On February 22 2012 18:17 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:43 Kreb wrote:
I wonder how long this thread will be allowed to live... elephants have a pretty long life expectancy! i think as long bw is going strong (i hope long for the fans and players) and sc2 is not finished (addonwise) with the occasional switch of a (former) bwpro, there will be friction between fans, and this thread does a nice job concentrating them in one place <.< so it is fine i guess, at least much much better as having it spread through live reports and everything else (which thanks to mods, is not really happening that much) i am always excited if someone "new" enters the proscene, especially since i just read about dove.
That is so not true, This thread is the main reason why half of the other threads on TL degenerate into unreadable bullshit.
By the way, the orginal post in this thread is a monumental guide how to shoot yourself in the leg by TL staff. Belongs to the golden heritage of the internet.
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The elephant is alive forgg in code S.
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I’m coming in a little bit late here, but here are my thoughts on the OP. The most striking thing about it is that it uses so many words to state the obvious: “practice makes perfect”, and that talent is important. Extremely good BW players are probably going to do well in SC2, but that is mainly because these are talented and hard working people. I think this is much more important rather than knowing the BW mechanics in and out.
I also find the continuous and exclusive SC2 comparison to BW a little bit absurd. I think WC3 deserves to be mentioned a lot more, and there are several other games that give players training in RTS thinking. But of course, BW and WC3 are more closely related to SC2 than the C&C series (etc.).
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Yeah, MVP made it to the top 8 of an OSL, losing to the Ultimate Weapon himself. I don't think its' really a valid argument that all BW pros would stomp all the SC2 pros. For example, MC will still do incredibly abusive timing attacks, even If he's up against flash or Jaedong. The games are different, though they are similar, so it would take time to get the hardened BW pros' game sense to transition from the quicker movements and longer games of BW to sc2 where you can win in the first 6 minutes of a game.
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I'm going to make a prediction:
When the much anticipated Kespa proleague starts in 2012, they will not include existing SC2 pro's in the field. It will be made up of all Kespa players who (as of today) aren't playing SC2 competitively.
Kespa will do this, because, obviously...... THERE IS NO ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and if they put the issue to a test, then they'll quickly throw away the lofty place BW pro's hold in their fans minds. (BW players certainly deserve huge praise, but IMO it goes to far when it extends to dominating a different game that they're 2 years behind on... that's just silly)
So, my prediction, is that Kespa will segregate its players as they transition to SC2 so as to protect them from the SC2 pro-gamers.
Because the competition in SC2 isn't a "farce" as the OP says, in fact, its too much for the "elephants" to handle.
Kespa will prove this point for us sometime this year.
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Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, none of the current Brood War legends will ever play Starcraft 2. Too much pressure to succeed wildly in a game they never played before. So either they make the switch and ruin their legacy, or don't make the switch. Hmm seems like an easy choice there.
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On February 22 2012 03:23 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:56 Merfyn wrote:GSL Spoilers: + Show Spoiler +Sorry, just had to post, damn, that code A dominance was awes- Oh... wait nvm, he lost to theStC and looked pretty average overall in the games he played... :D Sup elephant? Meteorite didn't hit earth yesterday, therefore metorite won't hit earth tomorrow.
Meteorite hit earth today; did no damage. Meteorites aren't that strong.
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ForGG just defeated two of FXO's best players in the GSTL.
TIME TO BUMP THIS!
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I thought these bumps every time someone lost or won was kinda cute at first but i think it's getting obnoxious^^
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Fuck TL I hate them. Elitist pricks. Think BW is superior to SC2 just cause its in the stone age as a game and is stupidly hard just to play? BW is no skill for little elitist bitches.
User was banned for this post.
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On March 21 2012 02:05 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, none of the current Brood War legends will ever play Starcraft 2. Too much pressure to succeed wildly in a game they never played before. So either they make the switch and ruin their legacy, or don't make the switch. Hmm seems like an easy choice there.
I doubt they're going to just jump into a GSL without extensive practice, first. If they play in the public eye, it's going to be when they're good and ready.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images.clipartof.com/small/34123-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Tired-Elephant-Snoozing-Soundly-Under-A-Blanket-On-A-Bed-His-Head-On-A-Pillow.jpg)
