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Another elephant in the room is the new blood, the next younger generation people, like Parting (could be royal roader in GSL) and Leenock(the best Zerg to use Banlings landmine). How is the Courage tournament in Broodwar and High school league tournament doing? If we argue SC2 not getting Broodwar superstars. BW is not getting new young blood potential superstars. Atleast, not at the same level it used get before SC2 arrive. Eg. Baby when he just got recruited to Wemade Fox.
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it's hard to say for sure one way or the other on this however i will say that with HOTs coming out i am REALLLY wondering if the BW crazy awesome players will consider moving...that would be VERY interesting to see..
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On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit.
Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD
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On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD
What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack.
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On February 10 2012 12:12 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack.
Yep, this guy is right. I don't mean to intervene, but he IS right, I'm sorry. If Flash, Bisu and Jaedong switch, we're probably gonna see a lot of changes in SC2. BW is way harder to play, and demands a lot more skill than SC2, and that's why not everyone was able to play the game. Also, that's why SC2 is more "noob friendly", and more deathball oriented: it was made to be a best-selling game.
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On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD
Don't worry about it, to believe in the elephant is to believe that somehow the people that played BW are more talented than the younger group of kids that grew up watching them. This has never been true in any sport anywhere that the talent pool decreased while the interest level incerased, but BW players live in a fantasy world where somehow playing BW bestowed upon kids a special irreplaceable talent that will never exist again. Either that.... or they have a bad case of hero worship.
I'm thinking magical RTS powers is more likely, because I've never know the general consensus to be wrong.
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On February 10 2012 12:12 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack.
According to the article--both lists amount to crap and any low level BW player will roflstomp all of them.
If you read the article, praising any present day pro that isn't currently playing BW right now is foolhardy because any random rank 300 BW player can roflstomp the scene in just a few short months.
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On February 10 2012 12:22 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:12 Kiyo. wrote:On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack. According to the article--both lists amount to crap and any low level BW player will roflstomp all of them. If you read the article, praising any present day pro that isn't currently playing BW right now is foolhardy because any random rank 300 BW player can roflstomp the scene in just a few short months.
The OP never said it was guaranteed, just that it was possible. And given the time at which the article was written, it was pretty spot on. Nowadays, I think that "300" has shrunk by a fair amount, but no one can precisely say to where exactly.
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If you look at the EWM brackets, you'll see IU is going to play against Vines! OMG IU is switching from kpop to SC2!
Seriously, if Jangbi was switching and playing in a tourney, it wouldn't be a weekly. There'd also be more hype if it was actually him.
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On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing.
What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war?
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On February 10 2012 12:35 Biggun69 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:On February 09 2012 06:20 Silidons wrote:he is also playing terran NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing. What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war?
All Koreans played BW. Therefore all Korean sc2 pro's played BW. They also breathed air. All of them!
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On February 10 2012 12:48 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:35 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:On February 09 2012 06:20 Silidons wrote:he is also playing terran NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing. What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war? All Koreans played BW.
Not all Koreans played BW professionally
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On February 10 2012 12:49 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:48 dsousa wrote:On February 10 2012 12:35 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:On February 09 2012 06:20 Silidons wrote:he is also playing terran NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing. What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war? All Koreans played BW. Not all Koreans played BW professionally
More true facts.... but where's the elephant?
Stephano vs Flash in SC2 right now! Stephano would mop the floor with him and shame an entire community. Flash knows this, thats why it'll never happen.
If BW players could come to SC2 and dominate, more would have done so. All the best SC2 players have been playing since a year ago..... no new comer has ever just showed up and kicked ass.
Would be cool to see, but its still a fairy tale.
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On February 10 2012 12:53 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:49 jidolboy wrote:On February 10 2012 12:48 dsousa wrote:On February 10 2012 12:35 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:On February 09 2012 06:20 Silidons wrote:he is also playing terran NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing. What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war? All Koreans played BW. Not all Koreans played BW professionally Not all the top sc2 pro's played BW professionally.
You just said every Korean played BW though?
Contradiction?
Anyway on to the topic, almost all successful SC2 players played BW and you cant deny that
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On February 10 2012 12:54 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:53 dsousa wrote:On February 10 2012 12:49 jidolboy wrote:On February 10 2012 12:48 dsousa wrote:On February 10 2012 12:35 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:On February 09 2012 06:20 Silidons wrote:he is also playing terran NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing. What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war? All Koreans played BW. Not all Koreans played BW professionally Not all the top sc2 pro's played BW professionally. You just said every Korean played BW though? Contradiction? Anyway on to the topic, almost all successful SC2 players played BW and you cant deny that
Maybe in Korea, not in the EU, and thats because EVERYONE in Korean played BW.
Its a silly arguement..... of course SC2 is not the first game any of the top people played. Any game is like that, gamers move from game to game and in Korea BW was THE GAME.
It doesn't change the fact that current BW players are almost 2 years behind.
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On February 10 2012 13:03 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:54 jidolboy wrote:On February 10 2012 12:53 dsousa wrote:On February 10 2012 12:49 jidolboy wrote:On February 10 2012 12:48 dsousa wrote:On February 10 2012 12:35 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 10:28 Mohdoo wrote:On February 09 2012 06:20 Silidons wrote:he is also playing terran NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On February 10 2012 10:26 Biggun69 wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. All those players that you mentioned played brood war except for Polt who played WC3 but he would have probably played some bw too anyways. The best sc2 players are from broodwar. I'm honestly surprised people are still making a point to say this sort of thing. What's wrong with what i said? Is it not true that all the top korean SC2 pros all played brood war? All Koreans played BW. Not all Koreans played BW professionally Not all the top sc2 pro's played BW professionally. You just said every Korean played BW though? Contradiction? Anyway on to the topic, almost all successful SC2 players played BW and you cant deny that Maybe in Korea, not in the EU, and thats because EVERYONE in Korean played BW. Its a silly arguement..... of course SC2 is not the first game any of the top people played. Any game is like that, gamers move from game to game and in Korea BW was THE GAME. It doesn't change the fact that current BW players are almost 2 years behind.
Maybe you didnt see. Not all Koreans played BW professionally. There are big differences playing casually and playing for money
Not all the topsc2 pro's played BW professionally.
You mentioned top. I took top players as MC, MVP and other korean pros. Not just random players
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On February 10 2012 12:26 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:22 lorkac wrote:On February 10 2012 12:12 Kiyo. wrote:On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack. According to the article--both lists amount to crap and any low level BW player will roflstomp all of them. If you read the article, praising any present day pro that isn't currently playing BW right now is foolhardy because any random rank 300 BW player can roflstomp the scene in just a few short months. The OP never said it was guaranteed, just that it was possible. And given the time at which the article was written, it was pretty spot on. Nowadays, I think that "300" has shrunk by a fair amount, but no one can precisely say to where exactly.
Just read the pages before this one.
SC2 is considered a farce simply because Flash, Bisu and Jeadong aren't playing. Maybe Fantasy and Jangbi too, I don't know, the number keeps shrinking the more wrong this article is proven.
Here's the thing--the only argument the whole article had going for it was that SC2 is so easy that any random rag tag group of low level BW pros could switch over and dominate. When you start shrinking it down to "when some really high level players switches to SC2 he will be really good at it!" which is akin to saying...
"when the best of the best decide to do things similar to what they're already the best at--they won't suck at it"
In which case there is no argument. There are always top talented people waiting in the wings to swoop in and take over as best in the business. Whether they wait in the wings because they're stuck in code B (MMA and DRG) or they're waiting in the wings because they're playing another game (Flash, Bisu and Jaedong, supposedly) it all amounts to the same thing in the end. Highly talented individuals coming in every now and then to revolutionize the match-ups or even the game itself--that happens all the time.
The whole argument about Elephants is that SC2 is a farce because any random scrub can jump in and dominate. And we're finding that to just not be true. At all.
So the argument shifted, and now the numbers are getting smaller and smaller. Hell, the very "scrubs" that the article makes fun of is now the "evidence" of the Elephant in the room. It's been completely turned upside down. Defending the Elephant in the Room argument with statements like "MVP was a BW player!" is the exact opposite of what the article and the argument of the article is all about.
If the current players like MVP, MC, Nestea, etc... are no longer scrubs but are valid examples of the supremacy of BW--then there was no need for the article to exists before since it was these same players being bad at BW that prompted the article being written in the first place. If the only argument left is
"Those guys who we called scrubs before because they sucked in BW, well they're no longer scrubs and they weren't even that bad in BW"
Then supporters of the article have literally 180'd and are now against the article.
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I don't get you guys... Isn't SC2 dominated by BW has beens and low tier players.
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On February 10 2012 13:09 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:26 1Eris1 wrote:On February 10 2012 12:22 lorkac wrote:On February 10 2012 12:12 Kiyo. wrote:On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack. According to the article--both lists amount to crap and any low level BW player will roflstomp all of them. If you read the article, praising any present day pro that isn't currently playing BW right now is foolhardy because any random rank 300 BW player can roflstomp the scene in just a few short months. The OP never said it was guaranteed, just that it was possible. And given the time at which the article was written, it was pretty spot on. Nowadays, I think that "300" has shrunk by a fair amount, but no one can precisely say to where exactly. Just read the pages before this one. SC2 is considered a farce simply because Flash, Bisu and Jeadong aren't playing. Maybe Fantasy and Jangbi too, I don't know, the number keeps shrinking the more wrong this article is proven. Here's the thing--the only argument the whole article had going for it was that SC2 is so easy that any random rag tag group of low level BW pros could switch over and dominate. When you start shrinking it down to "when some really high level players switches to SC2 he will be really good at it!" which is akin to saying... "when the best of the best decide to do things similar to what they're already the best at--they won't suck at it" In which case there is no argument. There are always top talented people waiting in the wings to swoop in and take over as best in the business. Whether they wait in the wings because they're stuck in code B (MMA and DRG) or they're waiting in the wings because they're playing another game (Flash, Bisu and Jaedong, supposedly) it all amounts to the same thing in the end. Highly talented individuals coming in every now and then to revolutionize the match-ups or even the game itself--that happens all the time. The whole argument about Elephants is that SC2 is a farce because any random scrub can jump in and dominate. And we're finding that to just not be true. At all. So the argument shifted, and now the numbers are getting smaller and smaller. Hell, the very "scrubs" that the article makes fun of is now the "evidence" of the Elephant in the room. It's been completely turned upside down. Defending the Elephant in the Room argument with statements like "MVP was a BW player!" is the exact opposite of what the article and the argument of the article is all about. If the current players like MVP, MC, Nestea, etc... are no longer scrubs but are valid examples of the supremacy of BW--then there was no need for the article to exists before since it was these same players being bad at BW that prompted the article being written in the first place. If the only argument left is "Those guys who we called scrubs before because they sucked in BW, well they're no longer scrubs and they weren't even that bad in BW" Then supporters of the article have literally 180'd and are now against the article.
That's extremely well said. And it's the perfect argument.
If you sir were an anime hero your hair would be yellow and you would have an aura around you by now.
I won't be checking this thread any more, discussion is over.
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On February 10 2012 13:09 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:26 1Eris1 wrote:On February 10 2012 12:22 lorkac wrote:On February 10 2012 12:12 Kiyo. wrote:On February 10 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:On February 10 2012 10:43 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 10 2012 08:44 Steveling wrote:
I just wanna throw into the discussion that many top players are not from bw. MMA, DRG, Leenock, Jjackji, Polt and many others. Most of them just have played bw casually cause it's famous in Korea(except mma who decided very quickly to drop bw for sc2 so you can't really say he was a bw player). So it's wrong to say that the best players come from bw.
I have no doubt that these are the players who would reign after the current generation on bw as well, if sc2 wasn't published. Mvp - Woongjin Stars A-teamer Nesta - KT Rolster A-teamer turned coach Genius played for the well known clan NsP MC - MBC Game Hero A-teamer Supernova - KT Rolster B-teamer Fin - Hwaesung Oz and KT Rolster A-teamer Marineking - MBC Game Hero B(?)-teamer Puzzle - WeMade FOX B-teamer MMA - SK Telecom 1 B-teamer Bomber - eSTRO A-teamer Curious - B-teamer Also you know Boxer, Nada, July. Soooooooooo yeeeeeeeeeaaaah you're full of shit. Woah, easy there keyboard warrior. Now how about actually respond to the names I listed and not make a list of your own? xD What? You said many of the top players are not from brood war but that's just wrong. Even from your list, off the top of my head, MMA and DRG are both from brood war teams. DRG even says he was on CJ's b team for a while during TL Attack. According to the article--both lists amount to crap and any low level BW player will roflstomp all of them. If you read the article, praising any present day pro that isn't currently playing BW right now is foolhardy because any random rank 300 BW player can roflstomp the scene in just a few short months. The OP never said it was guaranteed, just that it was possible. And given the time at which the article was written, it was pretty spot on. Nowadays, I think that "300" has shrunk by a fair amount, but no one can precisely say to where exactly. Just read the pages before this one. SC2 is considered a farce simply because Flash, Bisu and Jeadong aren't playing. Maybe Fantasy and Jangbi too, I don't know, the number keeps shrinking the more wrong this article is proven.Here's the thing--the only argument the whole article had going for it was that SC2 is so easy that any random rag tag group of low level BW pros could switch over and dominate. When you start shrinking it down to "when some really high level players switches to SC2 he will be really good at it!" which is akin to saying... "when the best of the best decide to do things similar to what they're already the best at--they won't suck at it" In which case there is no argument. There are always top talented people waiting in the wings to swoop in and take over as best in the business. Whether they wait in the wings because they're stuck in code B (MMA and DRG) or they're waiting in the wings because they're playing another game (Flash, Bisu and Jaedong, supposedly) it all amounts to the same thing in the end. Highly talented individuals coming in every now and then to revolutionize the match-ups or even the game itself--that happens all the time. The whole argument about Elephants is that SC2 is a farce because any random scrub can jump in and dominate. And we're finding that to just not be true. At all. So the argument shifted, and now the numbers are getting smaller and smaller. Hell, the very "scrubs" that the article makes fun of is now the "evidence" of the Elephant in the room. It's been completely turned upside down. Defending the Elephant in the Room argument with statements like "MVP was a BW player!" is the exact opposite of what the article and the argument of the article is all about. If the current players like MVP, MC, Nestea, etc... are no longer scrubs but are valid examples of the supremacy of BW--then there was no need for the article to exists before since it was these same players being bad at BW that prompted the article being written in the first place. If the only argument left is "Those guys who we called scrubs before because they sucked in BW, well they're no longer scrubs and they weren't even that bad in BW" Then supporters of the article have literally 180'd and are now against the article.
The bolded part x1000. The article says 300. The elephant is 300. You can't just step in a year later and say "oh yeah by 300 we really meant 10." If you think the top 10 BW players would dominate SC2 if they switched, then YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE ARTICLE.
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EPT
