EPTTldr: unless you think MVP is a horrible player that could get roflstomped by low level BW pros in SC2--you're actually defending SC2 according to this article.
The Elephant in the Room - Page 256
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
Tldr: unless you think MVP is a horrible player that could get roflstomped by low level BW pros in SC2--you're actually defending SC2 according to this article. | ||
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
Not only was it a pretty stupid post at its time (for a various number of reasons that the bias writer didn't care to mention), but now it is stupid AND irrelevant because the competition is no longer a "farce". | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On February 06 2012 08:09 lorkac wrote: I wonder how many people are actually defending the original article's argument (MVP and others are a sham because current BW pros are better) and are actually defending SC2 (MVP and others are great examples of why BW experience is superior to non-BW experience but Forgg's lack of results show that it's not the be all end all of SC2) Tldr: unless you think MVP is a horrible player that could get roflstomped by low level BW pros in SC2--you're actually defending SC2 according to this article. Nobody said MVP would get roflstomped by low level pros. What was said that there are many low level pros who can match MVP and then the A- and S-class people would show who's the boss, so to speak. Not much has changed. Former BW players dominate this game and they are all low level. That gives a good reason to think that the top players from BW will do even better. Top players haven't switched. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On February 07 2012 05:41 Squeegy wrote: Nobody said MVP would get roflstomped by low level pros. What was said that there are many low level pros who can match MVP and then the A- and S-class people would show who's the boss, so to speak. Not much has changed. Former BW players dominate this game and they are all low level. That gives a good reason to think that the top players from BW will do even better. Top players haven't switched. Assuming you're right--which 300 players are the "top players" that you're thinking of? Or by "top players" do you Flash, Jaedong, Bisu? Maybe even Fantasy, Zero and Jangbi? Is it simply the top 10 players of BW? Maybe top 20? Would the article be impressive if it said something along the lines of "One or two dozen people in Broodwar might be good enough to not get knocked out of Code S if they switched to SC2--maybe/hopefully." Would the article be impressive if it said "If the top players of BW switched, they might possibly be as good as one of the players of SC2, hopefully, keeping fingers crossed." Would the article be relevant if the article said "I think it might be possible that a few players in BW might almost be as relevant as MVP if they switched to BW." The article is saying that MVP is mediocre. What do you think "mediocre" means? | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On February 06 2012 08:09 lorkac wrote: I wonder how many people are actually defending the original article's argument (MVP and others are a sham because current BW pros are better) and are actually defending SC2 (MVP and others are great examples of why BW experience is superior to non-BW experience but Forgg's lack of results show that it's not the be all end all of SC2) Tldr: unless you think MVP is a horrible player that could get roflstomped by low level BW pros in SC2--you're actually defending SC2 according to this article. MVP was actually on a hugestreak before he switched...a streak that included wins over Snow, Flash, Baby, Best, Stork, Bogus and Kal, which is an incredibly strong lineup of players. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch Is wrong. Any revisionist justification of this is rubbish. Flash will be amazing at SC2, Bisu will be amazing at SC2. But the point of the article is just wrong. This thread should be closed. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On February 07 2012 21:47 TheSubtleArt wrote: MVP was actually on a hugestreak before he switched...a streak that included wins over Snow, Flash, Baby, Best, Stork, Bogus and Kal, which is an incredibly strong lineup of players. So are you saying that good BW players (like MVP) can be as good in SC2 as bad BW players (like Nestea/MMA/MC) proving that how good you are in BW does not directly relate to how well you'll do in SC2--but does help. + Show Spoiler + Which would mean you disagree with the article. Or Do you mean that SC2 is not a sham because it already has good BW players in it meaning that the competition it's had has actually been impressive because good BW players have been in it since the beginning. + Show Spoiler + Which also means you disagree with the article. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On February 07 2012 22:01 MCDayC wrote: Is wrong. Any revisionist justification of this is rubbish. Flash will be amazing at SC2, Bisu will be amazing at SC2. But the point of the article is just wrong. This thread should be closed. 100% agree. I think we are past the point where this thread is meaningful in any way shape or form. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On February 07 2012 23:04 valaki wrote: I love how everytime this thread gets bumped I instantly know ex-bw players lost some games. It was first bumped when fOrGG had his Code A streak. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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Sarang
Australia2363 Posts
On February 06 2012 08:09 SovSov wrote: This thread is so irrelevant now. Not only was it a pretty stupid post at its time (for a various number of reasons that the bias writer didn't care to mention), but now it is stupid AND irrelevant because the competition is no longer a "farce". Exactly! The overall skill of Starcraft 2 players has risen dramatically since this article was written Imagine if you could transport NesTea or Mvp back to face FruitDealer in GSL1. Or MMA, DongRaeGu or Leenock. Or Oz, MC, Happy, GuMiHo, Bomber, SuperNoVa, Polt, GanZi, Jjakji ... the list goes on. Any of the players listed would absolutely destroy the FruitDealer who won the first GSL. In fact I believe that every single player I just listed now plays on a much higher standard than we saw in the first 3 GSL's. It was a stupid article when it was written and it's an even stupider one now. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On February 07 2012 22:44 lorkac wrote: So are you saying that good BW players (like MVP) can be as good in SC2 as bad BW players (like Nestea/MMA/MC) proving that how good you are in BW does not directly relate to how well you'll do in SC2--but does help. + Show Spoiler + Which would mean you disagree with the article. Or Do you mean that SC2 is not a sham because it already has good BW players in it meaning that the competition it's had has actually been impressive because good BW players have been in it since the beginning. + Show Spoiler + Which also means you disagree with the article. My opinion is that the article is over 9 months old and thus obsolete. The scene has changed, players are more skilled, players practice more, and most team houses have more rigid practice schedules than they did last may, making this article irrelevant and a waste of time to discuss | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On February 07 2012 23:41 TheSubtleArt wrote: My opinion is that the article is over 9 months old and thus obsolete. The scene has changed, players are more skilled, players practice more, and most team houses have more rigid practice schedules than they did last may, making this article irrelevant and a waste of time to discuss Cool  glad we agree that the article is bogus. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On February 07 2012 23:59 lorkac wrote: Cool glad we agree that the article is bogus.Not saying it was bogus, it might have been true at the time, but it's just outdated now. It's like looking at current balance in a matchup by analysing games and winrates that are almost a year old....it's useless and far too much has changed. | ||
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Spitmode
Germany1510 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On February 08 2012 01:24 Azzur wrote: Was the Hyun that lost today the same Hyun that was a pretty good BW player? Yes, hence why this horrible thread was bumped. It was resting peacefully until hotbid came and resurrected it when forgg won a few code a games, and it has ever since been beaten mercilessly with a stick by bw fanboys and then by sc2 players that would bump it every time forgg would lose. | ||
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foxmulder_ms
United States140 Posts
After HOTS release, I believe some top Koreans, A- and maybe some S-class will switch to sc2 (most of them will retire but some will switch) and they have extremely strong chance to be very good on sc2, too. There is another possibility, though. If Koreans still favor to follow broodway even after HOTS release, we may never know.. And if the real switch for Korea delays until Legacy of the Void, I expect almost all broodwar legends to retire. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On February 08 2012 01:24 Azzur wrote: Was the Hyun that lost today the same Hyun that was a pretty good BW player? If you consider a 36% lifetime winrate pretty good (might be slightly higher, I can't find his stats right now), then yeah sure. edit: damnit, wasn't thinking, why the hell did I post in this thread | ||
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