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You guys were wrong. The gap between b-teamers and a-teamers mechanics was actually pretty small and ForGG is not automatically better than everyone at sc2 because he was better than everyone at BW. Flash/JD/Bisu would not automatically be crushing MC/MVP/Nestea even if (when) they switch to sc2.
BW experience obviously helped all of the current GSL champs, but most of even the b-teamers were already well beyond the threshold of diminishing returns on the bw skills->sc2 skills curve.
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On January 29 2012 05:48 Drowsy wrote:
You guys were wrong. The gap between b-teamers and a-teamers mechanics was actually pretty small and ForGG is not automatically better than everyone at sc2 because he was better than everyone at BW. Flash/JD/Bisu would not automatically be crushing MC/MVP/Nestea even if (when) they switch to sc2.
i guarantee mc/mvp/nestea would all say that flash/jd/bisu have 10x their mechanical ability.
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On January 29 2012 05:49 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:48 Drowsy wrote:
You guys were wrong. The gap between b-teamers and a-teamers mechanics was actually pretty small and ForGG is not automatically better than everyone at sc2 because he was better than everyone at BW. Flash/JD/Bisu would not automatically be crushing MC/MVP/Nestea even if (when) they switch to sc2. i guarantee mc/mvp/nestea would all say that flash/jd/bisu have 10x their mechanical ability.
And how are we defining mechanical ability? I'm curious.
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On January 29 2012 05:50 BlueBoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:49 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 05:48 Drowsy wrote:
You guys were wrong. The gap between b-teamers and a-teamers mechanics was actually pretty small and ForGG is not automatically better than everyone at sc2 because he was better than everyone at BW. Flash/JD/Bisu would not automatically be crushing MC/MVP/Nestea even if (when) they switch to sc2. i guarantee mc/mvp/nestea would all say that flash/jd/bisu have 10x their mechanical ability. And how are we defining mechanical ability? I'm curious.
the half of the game that isn't strategy/decision making.
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On January 29 2012 05:52 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:50 BlueBoxSC wrote:On January 29 2012 05:49 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 05:48 Drowsy wrote:
You guys were wrong. The gap between b-teamers and a-teamers mechanics was actually pretty small and ForGG is not automatically better than everyone at sc2 because he was better than everyone at BW. Flash/JD/Bisu would not automatically be crushing MC/MVP/Nestea even if (when) they switch to sc2. i guarantee mc/mvp/nestea would all say that flash/jd/bisu have 10x their mechanical ability. And how are we defining mechanical ability? I'm curious. the half of the game that isn't strategy/decision making.
Don't wanna be snarky, just curious. Neophyte SC player here...
I know that the four greats in BW now are respected as the best, but does mechanical ability = speed, precision, etc?
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On January 29 2012 05:34 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 04:14 NoobSkills wrote:On January 29 2012 04:01 1Eris1 wrote:On January 29 2012 03:58 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:53 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:46 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:26 dekarp wrote:On January 28 2012 17:48 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Zenex_Treme just beat BW legend Nada and oGsForGG back-to-back. Did you know that SuperNova was a BW pro? He cleaned up ZeNEX and is in Code S RO16, please add that to the spoiler. I love it when people take individual, isolated results and apply it to this thread. Like when everyone wanted to take forgg's 6-0 w/l in Code A and say he was the GOAT and was going to destroy everyone in Code S blah blahblah. With that being said, in general, CURRENT BW A-teamers would probably mop the floor with non-GSL finalist caliber players. lol no they won't they'll get owned just like forgg has beenn so far, get real. i'd hardly say forgg is getting owned. Last time he won was in code A, yup he's REALLY tearing up the SC2 scene lol. The rest won't do much better. And as I said before, comparing Forgg to current A-Teamers is stupid. A closer comparison would be MVP The thread meant current S Class BW players Flash Jaedong Bisu ect the top 20 or so of BW. But ForGG was still practicing quite a bit, though he wasn't playing at the skill level of his MSL victory which was a mixture of timings and outside the box play which got him an early lead in most of his games. Though I love how everyone seems to be living and dying by ForGG when there are better players who have switched over (at least better at the time of switch over). That isnt what the writer of the article meant. He actually meant that there were about 200 better players who with "2 months of practice could own up the current scene"
This.
I wish people read the actual article first before getting defensive about their top 3 S-class pro. I'm pretty sure that no matter how bad and slump ForGG is, he should belong to top 300 BW pro, and he has been playing this game since season 2, the number of game he played on all his smurf is over 6000+ games, and he joined oGs 3 months ago too. HyuN should also be in top 200 BW pro too, he joined TSL 2 months ago and still lost to players like ToD.
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On January 29 2012 05:40 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:37 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 05:31 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:58 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:53 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:46 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:26 dekarp wrote:On January 28 2012 17:48 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Zenex_Treme just beat BW legend Nada and oGsForGG back-to-back. Did you know that SuperNova was a BW pro? He cleaned up ZeNEX and is in Code S RO16, please add that to the spoiler. I love it when people take individual, isolated results and apply it to this thread. Like when everyone wanted to take forgg's 6-0 w/l in Code A and say he was the GOAT and was going to destroy everyone in Code S blah blahblah. With that being said, in general, CURRENT BW A-teamers would probably mop the floor with non-GSL finalist caliber players. lol no they won't they'll get owned just like forgg has beenn so far, get real. i'd hardly say forgg is getting owned. Last time he won was in code A, yup he's REALLY tearing up the SC2 scene lol. The rest won't do much better. it's pretty clear that you've never played BW from the rest of your posts, but okay: last time he won was in code A? yeah, where he went undefeated on his first try while making people like Polt look like amateurs. Then he loses against Leenock and MC in Code S, one of whom is a previous finalist and the other of whom has won multiple GSLs. And even with all that, it's not like he got crushed; he put up competitive games. i really think you underestimate how good people like flash/bisu/jaedong are. i'm not even a bw fanboy and i can admit that once they get used to the game, their sheer ability to multitask and play at a consistently high APM is going to make them leagues ahead of more or less anybody around right now. What does me playing BW have to do with it? If you want to bring skill into it, you've been diamond forever and will forever remain that way. And I've played SC1 since it first came out way before BW. Granted I never played 1v1, I did UMS and team games since I was still a kid, but that's beside the point. lol "leagues ahead of more or less anybody around right now" If mechanics were the deciding factor Idra would've won a GSL by now since he has by far the best mechannics out of any zerg player in the world right now. IdrA doesn't have the best mechanics of any Zerg player, what are you talking about...
Clearly you don't play SC2. Everyone knows this, even the people casting idra vs nestea have said Idra has much better mechanics than nestea, it's just his decision making. So no sorry, BW pros won't do well just because of mechanics, as we can see with forgg.
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On January 29 2012 06:00 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:34 Adreme wrote:On January 29 2012 04:14 NoobSkills wrote:On January 29 2012 04:01 1Eris1 wrote:On January 29 2012 03:58 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:53 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:46 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:26 dekarp wrote:On January 28 2012 17:48 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Zenex_Treme just beat BW legend Nada and oGsForGG back-to-back. Did you know that SuperNova was a BW pro? He cleaned up ZeNEX and is in Code S RO16, please add that to the spoiler. I love it when people take individual, isolated results and apply it to this thread. Like when everyone wanted to take forgg's 6-0 w/l in Code A and say he was the GOAT and was going to destroy everyone in Code S blah blahblah. With that being said, in general, CURRENT BW A-teamers would probably mop the floor with non-GSL finalist caliber players. lol no they won't they'll get owned just like forgg has beenn so far, get real. i'd hardly say forgg is getting owned. Last time he won was in code A, yup he's REALLY tearing up the SC2 scene lol. The rest won't do much better. And as I said before, comparing Forgg to current A-Teamers is stupid. A closer comparison would be MVP The thread meant current S Class BW players Flash Jaedong Bisu ect the top 20 or so of BW. But ForGG was still practicing quite a bit, though he wasn't playing at the skill level of his MSL victory which was a mixture of timings and outside the box play which got him an early lead in most of his games. Though I love how everyone seems to be living and dying by ForGG when there are better players who have switched over (at least better at the time of switch over). That isnt what the writer of the article meant. He actually meant that there were about 200 better players who with "2 months of practice could own up the current scene" This. I wish people read the actual article first before getting defensive about their top 3 S-class pro. I'm pretty sure that no matter how bad and slump ForGG is, he should belong to top 300 BW pro, and he has been playing this game since season 2, the number of game he played on all his smurf is over 6000+ games, and he joined oGs 3 months ago too. HyuN should also be in top 200 BW pro too, he joined TSL 2 months ago and still lost to players like ToD.
The OP says those players have a potential to dominate, not that they will. When MVP switched there were a TON of people with similar or greater skill. It makes sense, that if he can dominate, they would have at least the potential to dominate.
The only players the OP claims "will dominate" are the S Class
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On January 29 2012 06:02 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:40 Linwelin wrote:On January 29 2012 05:37 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 05:31 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:58 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:53 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:46 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:26 dekarp wrote:On January 28 2012 17:48 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Zenex_Treme just beat BW legend Nada and oGsForGG back-to-back. Did you know that SuperNova was a BW pro? He cleaned up ZeNEX and is in Code S RO16, please add that to the spoiler. I love it when people take individual, isolated results and apply it to this thread. Like when everyone wanted to take forgg's 6-0 w/l in Code A and say he was the GOAT and was going to destroy everyone in Code S blah blahblah. With that being said, in general, CURRENT BW A-teamers would probably mop the floor with non-GSL finalist caliber players. lol no they won't they'll get owned just like forgg has beenn so far, get real. i'd hardly say forgg is getting owned. Last time he won was in code A, yup he's REALLY tearing up the SC2 scene lol. The rest won't do much better. it's pretty clear that you've never played BW from the rest of your posts, but okay: last time he won was in code A? yeah, where he went undefeated on his first try while making people like Polt look like amateurs. Then he loses against Leenock and MC in Code S, one of whom is a previous finalist and the other of whom has won multiple GSLs. And even with all that, it's not like he got crushed; he put up competitive games. i really think you underestimate how good people like flash/bisu/jaedong are. i'm not even a bw fanboy and i can admit that once they get used to the game, their sheer ability to multitask and play at a consistently high APM is going to make them leagues ahead of more or less anybody around right now. What does me playing BW have to do with it? If you want to bring skill into it, you've been diamond forever and will forever remain that way. And I've played SC1 since it first came out way before BW. Granted I never played 1v1, I did UMS and team games since I was still a kid, but that's beside the point. lol "leagues ahead of more or less anybody around right now" If mechanics were the deciding factor Idra would've won a GSL by now since he has by far the best mechannics out of any zerg player in the world right now. IdrA doesn't have the best mechanics of any Zerg player, what are you talking about... Clearly you don't play SC2. Everyone knows this, even the people casting idra vs nestea have said Idra has much better mechanics than nestea, it's just his decision making. So no sorry, BW pros won't do well just because of mechanics, as we can see with forgg.
Are you serious
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Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AlM1E.jpg)
Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is?
Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all.
:D
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On January 29 2012 06:02 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:40 Linwelin wrote:On January 29 2012 05:37 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 05:31 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:58 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:53 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:46 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:26 dekarp wrote:On January 28 2012 17:48 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Zenex_Treme just beat BW legend Nada and oGsForGG back-to-back. Did you know that SuperNova was a BW pro? He cleaned up ZeNEX and is in Code S RO16, please add that to the spoiler. I love it when people take individual, isolated results and apply it to this thread. Like when everyone wanted to take forgg's 6-0 w/l in Code A and say he was the GOAT and was going to destroy everyone in Code S blah blahblah. With that being said, in general, CURRENT BW A-teamers would probably mop the floor with non-GSL finalist caliber players. lol no they won't they'll get owned just like forgg has beenn so far, get real. i'd hardly say forgg is getting owned. Last time he won was in code A, yup he's REALLY tearing up the SC2 scene lol. The rest won't do much better. it's pretty clear that you've never played BW from the rest of your posts, but okay: last time he won was in code A? yeah, where he went undefeated on his first try while making people like Polt look like amateurs. Then he loses against Leenock and MC in Code S, one of whom is a previous finalist and the other of whom has won multiple GSLs. And even with all that, it's not like he got crushed; he put up competitive games. i really think you underestimate how good people like flash/bisu/jaedong are. i'm not even a bw fanboy and i can admit that once they get used to the game, their sheer ability to multitask and play at a consistently high APM is going to make them leagues ahead of more or less anybody around right now. What does me playing BW have to do with it? If you want to bring skill into it, you've been diamond forever and will forever remain that way. And I've played SC1 since it first came out way before BW. Granted I never played 1v1, I did UMS and team games since I was still a kid, but that's beside the point. lol "leagues ahead of more or less anybody around right now" If mechanics were the deciding factor Idra would've won a GSL by now since he has by far the best mechannics out of any zerg player in the world right now. IdrA doesn't have the best mechanics of any Zerg player, what are you talking about... Clearly you don't play SC2. Everyone knows this, even the people casting idra vs nestea have said Idra has much better mechanics than nestea, it's just his decision making. So no sorry, BW pros won't do well just because of mechanics, as we can see with forgg.
hahahahaha wow man. just keep it up. idra best mechanics? maybe when FD was the best player in the world.
And Forgg was known for timing attacks, not super awesome multi-tasking etc. MVP probably had a better overall raw skill when he switched, so that point is moot
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On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D
You're right, Jaedong is horrible
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On January 29 2012 04:38 Taekwon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 04:29 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 04:26 1Eris1 wrote:On January 29 2012 04:09 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 04:01 1Eris1 wrote:On January 29 2012 03:58 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:53 Shiori wrote:On January 29 2012 03:46 hunts wrote:On January 29 2012 03:26 dekarp wrote:On January 28 2012 17:48 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Zenex_Treme just beat BW legend Nada and oGsForGG back-to-back. Did you know that SuperNova was a BW pro? He cleaned up ZeNEX and is in Code S RO16, please add that to the spoiler. I love it when people take individual, isolated results and apply it to this thread. Like when everyone wanted to take forgg's 6-0 w/l in Code A and say he was the GOAT and was going to destroy everyone in Code S blah blahblah. With that being said, in general, CURRENT BW A-teamers would probably mop the floor with non-GSL finalist caliber players. lol no they won't they'll get owned just like forgg has beenn so far, get real. i'd hardly say forgg is getting owned. Last time he won was in code A, yup he's REALLY tearing up the SC2 scene lol. The rest won't do much better. And as I said before, comparing Forgg to current A-Teamers is stupid. A closer comparison would be MVP I can see it all now. A year from now flash switches over to SC2, proceeds to get roflstomped, 1eris1: "Comparing flash to current A-teamers is stupid, he never achieved anything, i now disown him as a star because he didn't dominate the Sc2 scene like the awful thread predicted" Wow, like honestly wow... Forgg was a top level player in 2008. Not in 2010/11 when he switched/retired. What don't you freaking understand about that? Also the fact that you think that would apply to Flash, wow And the fact that you don't think it would apply to flash, wow. Guess what bro? There's no proof either way, and you're getting mad about someone making the same type of assumptions you've been making. My advice? Quit raging, calm down, and relax. Or try to, you're having a hard time doing this whole being calm thing. But try to, at least untill the next Bw player switches and everyone makes a big deal of them everytime they win a game, and then goes "oh well they were bad" when they get stomped. HAHAHAHA good laff thanks
As if it was not the sad truth. 
Just read the part of the this thread that was running when ForGG qualified in Code S.
It was bumped by Hotbit himself with a post like "Ah! A good occasion to bump this thread! LOL"
Read the stuff posted in this very thread back at that time.
EVERYONE raging right now was predicting that this guy to ROFLSTOMP Code S without even blinking.
Now the same guys are coming back and on diss ForGG's career, achievements and overall talent as a Progamer just to save their face. This is sad, pathetic and dishonest.
Keep it classy guys.
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On January 29 2012 06:09 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D You're right, Jaedong is horrible
No he's great, but he's not a flawless god that is going to undo 2 years of SC2 pro-gaming the moment he logs into battle.net.
But you're right its a low blow :D Just to read how people write about the bonjwa's on this board, you would think that event last night totally inconceivable.
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On January 29 2012 06:11 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 06:09 Linwelin wrote:On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D You're right, Jaedong is horrible No he's great, but he's not a flawless god that is going to undo 2 years of SC2 pro-gaming the moment he logs into battle.net.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but in what way the picture of his stuck units proves your point?
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On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D
Wait you mean that giant blobs of units exist in BW???
Have I've been lied to? o_o'
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Every player in the korean scene that is worth something in SC2 was a former BW pro or a high level amateur practise partner to the pros . Of course they won't start dominating the day they switch , but with 3 - 4 months of serious practise they will probably easily compete with the best of what SC2 has to offer . ForGG practising mostly on ladder made Code-S on his first try against solid players.Thats pretty good results if you ask me considering that most foreigners can't even win a game in code A even thought they have been competing in tournaments and sponsored by teams .
On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D
Jaedong still won the game confortable and was never in any real danger despite having units stuck at his ramp from what i saw . This actually can happen to any pro since they move to fast and only notice enemy units on the minimap . Happend to Flash and others in the past .
You would be suprised how fast they will start competing with the current SC 2 pros when they start practising 10+ hours a day with their RTS knowledge and second to non mechanics .
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On January 29 2012 06:12 GreyMasta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D Wait you mean that giant blobs of units exist in BW??? Have I've been lied to? o_o'
BW DeathBall
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On January 29 2012 06:11 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 06:09 Linwelin wrote:On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D You're right, Jaedong is horrible No he's great, but he's not a flawless god that is going to undo 2 years of SC2 pro-gaming the moment he logs into battle.net. But you're right its a low blow :D Just to read how people write about the bonjwa's on this board, you would think that event last night totally inconceivable.
JD isn't a bonjwa
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On January 29 2012 06:12 GreyMasta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 29 2012 06:06 dsousa wrote:Wait, did this last 10 game minutes without Jaedong noticing? Was his BW omnipresence turned off? Did he think he had another base on the minimap, where that giant red blob is? Mouse 1 - Elephant 0. BW players are human beings and will perform as such when they start playing SC2, flaws and all. :D Wait you mean that giant blobs of units exist in BW??? Have I've been lied to? o_o'
I'm sure you're being sarcastic, but just in case you are not. This "blob of units" happened because of the units trying to move up the blocked ramp. If you ever watch a broodwar game, you will see that the units are normally more spread out
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EPT
