EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 232
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:28 Talack wrote: I wish ForGG had smashed the competition so that I wouldn't have to be so ashamed of the comments in this thread. It's okay. Nestea, MC, and others did. Did you forget they were BW players too? | ||
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Galleon.frigate
Canada721 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:28 Talack wrote: I wish ForGG had smashed the competition so that I wouldn't have to be so ashamed of the comments in this thread. prob would have just been almost just as ashamed, sry to admit it. it will be interesting to see what would happen if a true s class player switched in thier prime... only they would and will likely not have little incentive as bw still running reasonably strong, and sc2 actually having less money in it. | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:45 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It's okay. Nestea, MC, and others did. Did you forget they were BW players too? While I agree that one player's loss alone doesn't necessarily prove much, forGG is unique in that none of the above were A-team BW players at their time of switching. Also, ForGG has a pretty notable MSL win that is pretty recent [compared to the other "old-timer" BW players like Boxer or even Nada]. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:23 Mothra wrote: ForGG was S-Class for a time though, and that was during the current era of Flash/Jaedong/Bisu etc. It's true though that when he retired he was way below S-Class level. S-Class is such a small and elite group. That's why I think it's exciting to follow ForGG. July, Nada and Boxer reached that level too but in eras that were not as fiercely competitive as now. He was God Mode for a single tournament during the beginning of Jaedong's Reign of Terror during Bisu's heyday right before Flash's 14CC OCD thing. Other than that he was a pretty good player with sometimes great play and sometimes not so great. S-Class is really only for the great players who are a cut above and remain consistent with high win rates for years. Not many of those guys around. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
What is definition of "s-class"? I mean, the real, the official, the undeniable definition? | ||
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Azzur
Australia6253 Posts
On January 12 2012 15:01 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Guys, let me bother you for a second with a stupid question. What is definition of "s-class"? I mean, the real, the official, the undeniable definition? S-class is a BW-term and is an unofficial term to denote the highest level BW-player. Players such as Flash, Jaedong and Bisu are S-class. The term is very exclusive and is not given to just any good player - for example, some ppl don't consider Fantasy S-class. In contrast, in SC2, Code S just means the players in that particular tournament. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: While I agree that one player's loss alone doesn't necessarily prove much, forGG is unique in that none of the above were A-team BW players at their time of switching. Also, ForGG has a pretty notable MSL win that is pretty recent [compared to the other "old-timer" BW players like Boxer or even Nada]. ForGG fell off really hard after his MSL win in 2008, and before switching to SC2, he was about to fall to B-team status. He just burned out and/or lost focus and determination like Boxer and Nada did. He isn't in Arena MSL shape by any means lol. In any case, ForGG is still learning the game. He's only been a pro SC2 player for 3 months. He's a bad example to use imo. MVP is a better one especially considering he didn't walk into competitive SC2 yesterday, and as we can see, he's the top SC2 player. Of course, the newer people would like to ignore the fact he was a BW player. It would kill their sanctified claim. The reason why the new kids on the block are bringing up ForGG because it's their only "evidence" they have that there is no elephant in the room. For one, they're shooting themselves in the face because they're intentionally ignoring the fact that most of the other Korean SC2 players came from BW, especially the big ones, which completely contradicts their argument. Secondly, the top SC2 players were subpar BW players. This is why I said it's okay. Related to that is the fact that SC2 in Korea is practically negligible comparing to BW there, neither in fandom, recognition, nor player skill / talent. This is pretty much the "I didn't know Starcraft before SC2" test. By adamantly arguing there is no "elephant in the room", these people are not only calling the OP an idiot, they're calling the TL staff idiots, the TL SC team idiots, and everyone and anyone who ever knew anything about BW idiots. | ||
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MaZza[KIS]
Australia2110 Posts
Never, ever, ever put you trust in forGG. He's just unreliable. NOTE: Granted, I was happy to see him achieving success, because when he plays good it's really really really fun to watch! | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
That statement is fallacy. Boxer never got worse really, as far as I know. Boxer was always as good as he was, or even got better. Everyone else just got better and for some reason boxer could not compete. Protip: his age has nothing to do with the fact that he could no compete anymore with new talents. He was something like 23-25 when he started to be comparatively bad. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
I've been following BW and reading TL in some way or another since around 2006. Not exactly a member of the old guard, but that's when I first got Internet in my room (ie. frequent access to the Internet) and was able to find out about Starcraft. You seem to be implying that only when you register on TL do you become cognizant of Starcraft and TL. Protip: his age has nothing to do with the fact that he could no compete anymore with new talents. He was something like 23-25 when he started to be comparatively bad. Also, players get burned out. Consciously or not, they just don't focus and try as hard as they did in their biggest years. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On January 12 2012 15:25 Mongolbonjwa wrote: People time to time mention how "boxer was goooooood but then got old" That statement is fallacy. Boxer never got worse really, as far as I know. Boxer was always as good as he was, or even got better. Everyone else just got better and for some reason boxer could not compete. Protip: his age has nothing to do with the fact that he could no compete anymore with new talents. He was something like 23-25 when he started to be comparatively bad. He went for the military and when he came back he couldn't catch up. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: While I agree that one player's loss alone doesn't necessarily prove much, forGG is unique in that none of the above were A-team BW players at their time of switching. Also, ForGG has a pretty notable MSL win that is pretty recent [compared to the other "old-timer" BW players like Boxer or even Nada]. That bolded part has no meaning. It has no meaning that someone was "ateamer at the time of their switch" Being ateamer 2010 was different thing than being ateam in 2005 for an example. If sc2 would have came out 2005, being ateamer would have not been as impactful as in 2011 | ||
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Bengui
Canada775 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:28 Talack wrote: I wish ForGG had smashed the competition so that I wouldn't have to be so ashamed of the comments in this thread. It would probably have been just as shameful, but with a different part of the crowd being the buffons. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
On January 12 2012 17:24 Inori wrote: What's the difference between "S-class" and bonjwa? sclass is league of bad players, and bonjwa means good | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
On January 12 2012 17:28 Inori wrote: Wait, so Flash, Jaedong and Bisu are bad players? I'm confused now.. flash is bonjwa, jaedong is bonjwa, bisu is bonjwa no issue here | ||
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InDaHouse
Sweden956 Posts
On January 12 2012 17:25 Mongolbonjwa wrote: sclass is league of bad players, and bonjwa means good What are you talking about? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bonjwahttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bonjwa Short answer about S-class in bw: When people used to ladder in bw their skill were divided from D (lowest) to A-class (highest). But certain progamers could be exceptionally good and they were considered S-class e.g. Jaedong, Flash, Stork, Bisu, Savior etc etc. You could also be S-class in a certain matchup e.g. Firebathero was considered a S-class player in the TvT matchup at his prime. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On January 12 2012 17:30 Mongolbonjwa wrote: flash is bonjwa, jaedong is bonjwa, bisu is bonjwa no issue here What? Bisu was never considered a bonjwa. A bonjwa is a player who dominated the competition for a period of time. As far as I know, the only bonjwas are Boxer, Savior, Jaedong, iloveoov and Flash. edit: InDaHouse explained S-class better. | ||
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