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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50692 Posts
On May 14 2011 22:45 TheSubtleArt wrote: *sigh* did you actually read anything other than the first line? oh cool you're back!! yeah callobono you don't understand what the OP is actually trying to say about the SC2 scene.In simplest terms I will say that its a tough love speech to the SC2 guys. | ||
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Callobono
Norway57 Posts
On May 14 2011 22:45 TheSubtleArt wrote: *sigh* did you actually read anything other than the first line? did you? Its not that i dont understand his point or that alot of what he writes are news. That even people like me who dident follow bw knows. Its also clear that op dont really enjoy watching nooby sc2 players over his bw heros and as far as i understood the lvl of the players the skill requiered and detph of bw has a huge gap on sc2. But you cant really begin to compare the two games sc1 was made whit way inferioer ai patching and tools to control you army macroing etc. So the old way of makeing games inadvertidtly made the skill requiered huge alto the basics of the two games can be called simmilar. Units look kinda the same etc you cant really compare the two games on a fair basis and in that regard they allmost shouldent be compared. But on to my point the way the article is writien it got nothing but scorn for the game the players and id allmost dare say the fans. So my point being if you are a huge bw fan and watching bw tournaments and play you dont have to watch sc2 or mock those who do for it play it or are involved in it. I know the article dont outright say it but it clearly shines through. That said i totaly agree on most of his points that i would love to se a really profesional and dedicated teams play. And deliver totaly epic games but i fear it might never happen, and sc2 as it is now probably wont have as long a running time as sc:bw has had. And still haveing thought it only really being in south korea. Cause of the giant gap in design and play diffrence of the two games but time will tell but and in the end makeing these borderline troll articels about sc2 vs bw serves no real point. Except as a means to deliver ones opinion on what is the greater game to a bigger audience. My opinion on the mather at least | ||
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Naid
Sweden73 Posts
if people are as unprofessional and "elitist" as they are now, gaming will never look good in perspective and will remain to be looked childish and unprofessional. evolving the game as a community wether its broodwar or starcraft 2 is far more important than "oh bw players are so much better, bw oldschool people are much cooler, sc2 is crap compared to bw" | ||
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
Sure, we may not be entirely there yet. Sure, you can't compare MC to Bisu. But that's just because the game is new. Would it really be fair to match current BW pros like flash and jaedong against the kids who were winning tournaments the first year starcraft 1 came out (even before broodwar)? No, it wouldn't. And here the thread just ended.Stop shitting on SC2. Obviously the BW scene is far more developed with more than 10 years activity. Why did you need to write a whole article talking about how sophisticated and developed BW and how shitty SC2 is. Given 10 years of SC2 the scene will be up to par with the current BW scene. | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
The skill in almost every single sport increase over time. If BW continues to be as big as it is now(I know that probably will not be the case) there will probably be new star players and eventually people will say that flash was good for his time but that the top players at the moment are much better. Some of the top sc2 players we have today will most likely be in the top in 2 years from now as well and there will most likely be a lot of amazing players in 2 years that no one knows about today. And we can probably be quite sure that the general skill level at the top will be much higher, just like it will most likely be in 4 years compared to 2 years from now. Like with any other sport. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
And did you just call BW childish and elitist lol? Well i actually understand the Elitist part (being elite doesnt really mean being bad, mind), but Childish, cmon -.- empty insults isnt exactly mature either. And it has been said time and again that OP's intention as well as text dont really mean what you are making it out to be. You should read the thread for more explanation, since you dont seem to understand the OP very well.. Or like Blind-Rawr says, you can take his word that its a tough love speech to the SC2 pros. Anw saying the competition is bad doesnt mean the same thing as the scene is bad. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On May 15 2011 00:51 Thorakh wrote: And here the thread just ended. Stop shitting on SC2. Obviously the BW scene is far more developed with more than 10 years activity. Why did you need to write a whole article talking about how sophisticated and developed BW and how shitty SC2 is. Given 10 years of SC2 the scene will be up to par with the current BW scene. That is kind of the point. Unless things change that may not happen. Take WC3 for example, it seems that it only managed to produce players of B-teamers level at its best. And the game's been out for quite a few years. | ||
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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
Now, stop thinking that he's shitting on SC2. If anything in the edit implied that BW > SC2, it is most probably factual and impossible to be argued against, and I'm pretty sure that it's tweaked to sound as unhurting as it can be already. True, those like Flash and Jaedong will dominate RTS games to a ridiculous extent (I love how Bisu wasn't mentioned). Just very recently there was a thread on scouting paths in the FlaSh vs Leta game right? Now just look at discussions of THAT level of micro (micro as in specific not as in micro/macro) and compare it to the balance/new 'astounding' and innovative build orders/unit composition threads in SC2 strategy, and I think it'll be easier to understand why BW is so refined and skill-demanding all the way to the most minute of details. Not only can these super top-tier players come up with a strategy to completely popularise and in some very rare cases revolutionise a matchup every now and then innovatively, but the fact that the multitasking required to carry it out is not even discussed or MENTIONED, it really goes to show how amazing their mechanics are. If Jaedong gets his 3 hatch muta, or I dare say, his 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra timings down to the second, and the builds like K4WG or whatever others are still carried out at the pro level with 3 to 5 second discrepancies, it just goes to show that when these A or S-class progamers transfer over, IF they were to I mean, they would have to be beat by the current players by an OVERWHELMING STRATEGY ADVANTAGE. That's the difference. | ||
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
That's the point. He doesn't hate SC2, or any bull like that, he just wants the community to be aware of how good some of the other players who are going to hit the scene are compared to the people playing now. | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
It's a truely head in hands moment. Well, all i can do is focus on my own individual skill, and know that deep down, i'm better than the OP at sc2 <laugh> | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
I'll have a pretty good reason. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On May 15 2011 03:52 OPL3SA2 wrote: Well all i can say is, when that day comes, and Starcraft 1 BW players start making a switch over to SC2, and they start failing to make it into Code S, and all of the hairy shit that's going to go along with that, i'm going to revisit this thread. It's going to say "I better have a good reason to bump this thread, because it's 2 months old." I'll have a pretty good reason. They haven't failed to qualify so far, in fact, they have actually dominated GSL. Why would the rest, who we have a very good reason think are even better, would do worse? Intrigue also quite well explained why Nada, Boxer and July, although legends, were not top-tier players anymore in BW. I don't know, did you even read the article? | ||
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Felony
United States131 Posts
Edit: Now 29.5k viewers. | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On May 15 2011 00:51 Thorakh wrote: And here the thread just ended. Stop shitting on SC2. Obviously the BW scene is far more developed with more than 10 years activity. Why did you need to write a whole article talking about how sophisticated and developed BW and how shitty SC2 is. Given 10 years of SC2 the scene will be up to par with the current BW scene. Uh no. The whole "BW has had 10 years to develop and SC2 is new" argument doesn't work because the criticism isn't about BW being strategically more sophisticated and developed. This is just simply about raw skill and work ethics. When it comes to the fundamental skills required to be good at RTS games, the SC2 scene is in fact a "farce" compared to BW. Look at the best BW players and their multitasking skills, their insane reaction speed, their macro and micro, their game sense, their ability to have complete map awareness even when there's shit happening all over the map and despite the fact that the macro/micro mechanics are much difficult. When you watch the best BW players, you are just left in awe at how incredibly good they are. I've seen some very exciting, tense, back and forth games in SC2, but the quality of play in terms of sheer talent, even the best SC2 players have almost never elicited such a reaction from me (and for many others who've been watching BW for a while). All of this has nothing to do with how new the game is, the best BW players are just simply far more skilled than the best SC2 players. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On May 15 2011 04:50 DarkMatter_ wrote: Uh no. The whole "BW has had 10 years to develop and SC2 is new" argument doesn't work because the criticism isn't about BW being strategically more sophisticated and developed. This is just simply about raw skill and work ethics. When it comes to the fundamental skills required to be good at RTS games, the SC2 scene is in fact a "farce" compared to BW. Look at the best BW players and their multitasking skills, their insane reaction speed, their macro and micro, their game sense, their ability to have complete map awareness even when there's shit happening all over the map and despite the fact that the macro/micro mechanics are much difficult. When you watch the best BW players, you are just left in awe at how incredibly good they are. I've seen some very exciting, tense, back and forth games in SC2, but the quality of play in terms of sheer talent, even the best SC2 players have almost never elicited such a reaction from me (and for many others who've been watching BW for a while). All of this has nothing to do with how new the game is, the best BW players are just simply far more skilled than the best SC2 players. Honestly, it's a bit of both. No one doing well in Brood War right now is going to want to switch, so the way we'll see SC2 players who are good is if the SC2 scene develops on its own. BW players will not save SC2. SC2 players practicing will. If Slayers has the ethic like Op says, Slayers players will start dominating, and start improving. SC2 can't start from top-tier Brood War because top-tier Brood War players have a ton of incentives not to help. | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On May 15 2011 05:03 Ribbon wrote: Honestly, it's a bit of both. No one doing well in Brood War right now is going to want to switch, so the way we'll see SC2 players who are good is if the SC2 scene develops on its own. BW players will not save SC2. SC2 players practicing will. If Slayers has the ethic like Op says, Slayers players will start dominating, and start improving. SC2 can't start from top-tier Brood War because top-tier Brood War players have a ton of incentives not to help. It's entirely possible that a few years from now, the best SC2 players will be people who have no experience with BW. As time passes, BW experience will become less and less significant because the skill level of the SC2 scene will improve greatly and combine that with the fact that the best SC2 players will have such a superior understanding of the game due to years of experience, it's going to end up being very difficult, even for the likes of Flash and Jaedong, to overcome those disadvantages and start dominating the SC2 scene. At the moment though, I just don't see how Flash and Jaedong wouldn't dominate because they're just simply so much more skilled than any SC2 player and because the game is relatively new, learning the game and honing their SC2 game sense isn't going to be that difficult. | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On May 15 2011 04:24 Felony wrote: So I am watching the TSL3 semis right now along with 27k other people on the HQ channel. Edit: Now 29.5k viewers. But I thought the competition in SC2 is a farce... | ||
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