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So cool story bro but if you dont like sc2 then noone is forceing you to watch it 
I only came to tl after sc2 like hoards of others and i figure this site also got a huge boost after sc2 came out, and this allmost comes of like tl saying fak sc2 sutch a noob game but it gives revenue so well let it slide. (i know im exagerating here but dont shit where you eat you know)
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On May 14 2011 15:13 ShadeR wrote:
This is why it is indeed the elephant in the room....taboo. Angry mobs will scream BW elitist! But in the end is what Intrigue has written false? The motives of the piece are irrelevant. It is what it is.
Bw by far has the more talent and the more establised scene but does that validate someone shiting over all the people who actualy like watching/playing sc2?
Just cause you like to go to the oprea you cant expect to walk into a sports bar call evryone there low life scum whit no intrest for the arts and dont expect shit to go down.
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On May 14 2011 18:35 Everhate wrote:Specifically talking about MC, after I heard Idra's comments on SotG and decided to take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standard^ Link to the career match list for MC in BW. Now, a few of those were, perhaps, matches he 'should' have won if he were a A-class or so pro, but most of them there is no shame in losing. How many A-class players today, for example, go 0-4 playing Bisu (PvP) twice and ZerO (PvZ) twice? Then add in matches against Stats and Violet, both PvP again. It's possible PvP was just his worse matchup, as it tended to be for quite a few BW players. I'd say there are a fair number of 'top' BW pros that it is reasonable to think they could go 0-6 against this list of opponents. Beating Effort PvZ on HBR I'd have to look back at. I don't have the knowledge level to say if that is impressive or something he should have won. Perhaps he should have won the other 3, or at least 1-2 of those, against the 'lesser' opponents, but I think that, given such a short BW career, it's difficult to say for sure how good he was. Couple days later, the article still has me thinking about these things, so it seems to have its desired result, at least on me. Just thought I'd put these thoughts out there and perhaps see if someone with a heavier history in BW (I am and was more of a casual fan) could inform me about the matches in the list, and whether my thoughts on them are completely off-base.
TLPD for Iron's non standard league matches. These games are usually Offline prelims for OSL and MSL or Dreamleague(proleague for the b-team). As you can see he's 56% 42- 33 a much larger sample size. I suppose you can infer from these results that his skill level was that of a good B-teamer, 56% is a respectable winrate. But was not up to par with the rest of proBW A-teamers as indicated by his abysmal 1-9 record.
Edit: lol forgot to add the link
link
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On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
..
This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me.
It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true.
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On May 14 2011 19:24 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 18:35 Everhate wrote:Specifically talking about MC, after I heard Idra's comments on SotG and decided to take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standard^ Link to the career match list for MC in BW. Now, a few of those were, perhaps, matches he 'should' have won if he were a A-class or so pro, but most of them there is no shame in losing. How many A-class players today, for example, go 0-4 playing Bisu (PvP) twice and ZerO (PvZ) twice? Then add in matches against Stats and Violet, both PvP again. It's possible PvP was just his worse matchup, as it tended to be for quite a few BW players. I'd say there are a fair number of 'top' BW pros that it is reasonable to think they could go 0-6 against this list of opponents. Beating Effort PvZ on HBR I'd have to look back at. I don't have the knowledge level to say if that is impressive or something he should have won. Perhaps he should have won the other 3, or at least 1-2 of those, against the 'lesser' opponents, but I think that, given such a short BW career, it's difficult to say for sure how good he was. Couple days later, the article still has me thinking about these things, so it seems to have its desired result, at least on me. Just thought I'd put these thoughts out there and perhaps see if someone with a heavier history in BW (I am and was more of a casual fan) could inform me about the matches in the list, and whether my thoughts on them are completely off-base. TLPD for Iron's non standard league matches. These games are usually Offline prelims for OSL and MSL or Dreamleague(proleague for the b-team). As you can see he's 56% 42- 33 a much larger sample size. I suppose you can infer from these results that his skill level was that of a good B-teamer, 56% is a respectable winrate. But was not up to par with the rest of proBW A-teamers as indicated by his abysmal 1-9 record. Edit: lol forgot to add the link Iron's stats
Your link leads to editing the post, by the way, which does not work.
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On May 14 2011 19:29 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
..
This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me. It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true.
Would you go up to an obese person and sey hey dude your pretty fat now look at this guy over here hes pretty skinny, and explain it all as you where just stateing a fact and meant no offense. Youd just like to point out to him not cause he cared or it maid a relevant fact or anything but you just felt you had to tell him how it was.
Well thats ok and all but you cant call it anything but insulting.
Point is this kinda thing is highlights that some people feel they follow the superior scene here on tl but are outnummbered and feel they have to rub it in peoples faces.
I could kinda understand sutch a thing but dont try and call it anything but what it is.
Not nesecaraly reffering to the op here but responding to the tone i feel from alot of the replys also.
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You forget about age.
Someone who wants to be Flash-like better be super talented, work incredibly hard, but he also better be damn 13 years old. People underestimate the fact that you learn sooo much more being very young.
I'm sure a 24 years old Jaedong who would transfer to SC2 would dominate. But in the long run, I believe that the best people will be very very young, and therefore won't probably transfer at all. They will just be prodigies of SC2, the same way that Flash was a prodigy of BW.
Now i agree with your analysis of SC2 scene. It blows compared to what it will be if there is a massive switch or if pro-team start to work as hard as they do in BW.
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On May 14 2011 19:45 Callobono wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 19:29 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
..
This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me. It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true. Would you go up to an obese person and sey hey dude your pretty fat now look at this guy over here hes pretty skinny, and explain it all as you where just stateing a fact and meant no offense. Youd just like to point out to him not cause he cared or it maid a relevant fact or anything but you just felt you had to tell him how it was. Well thats ok and all but you cant call it anything but insulting. Point is this kinda thing is highlights that some people feel they follow the superior scene here on tl but are outnummbered and feel they have to rub it in peoples faces. I could kinda understand sutch a thing but dont try and call it anything but what it is. Not nesecaraly reffering to the op here but responding to the tone i feel from alot of the replys also.
If that obese person were lauded as highly fit on a fitness site, I probably would. And considering the situation where I would do it, which would not be to a random stranger on the street, I don't see why would anybody find it insulting. Moreover, the motivation certainly would not be to insult.
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On May 14 2011 19:33 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 19:24 ShadeR wrote:On May 14 2011 18:35 Everhate wrote:Specifically talking about MC, after I heard Idra's comments on SotG and decided to take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standard^ Link to the career match list for MC in BW. Now, a few of those were, perhaps, matches he 'should' have won if he were a A-class or so pro, but most of them there is no shame in losing. How many A-class players today, for example, go 0-4 playing Bisu (PvP) twice and ZerO (PvZ) twice? Then add in matches against Stats and Violet, both PvP again. It's possible PvP was just his worse matchup, as it tended to be for quite a few BW players. I'd say there are a fair number of 'top' BW pros that it is reasonable to think they could go 0-6 against this list of opponents. Beating Effort PvZ on HBR I'd have to look back at. I don't have the knowledge level to say if that is impressive or something he should have won. Perhaps he should have won the other 3, or at least 1-2 of those, against the 'lesser' opponents, but I think that, given such a short BW career, it's difficult to say for sure how good he was. Couple days later, the article still has me thinking about these things, so it seems to have its desired result, at least on me. Just thought I'd put these thoughts out there and perhaps see if someone with a heavier history in BW (I am and was more of a casual fan) could inform me about the matches in the list, and whether my thoughts on them are completely off-base. TLPD for Iron's non standard league matches. These games are usually Offline prelims for OSL and MSL or Dreamleague(proleague for the b-team). As you can see he's 56% 42- 33 a much larger sample size. I suppose you can infer from these results that his skill level was that of a good B-teamer, 56% is a respectable winrate. But was not up to par with the rest of proBW A-teamers as indicated by his abysmal 1-9 record. Edit: lol forgot to add the link Iron's stats Your link leads to editing the post, by the way, which does not work.
thanks for letting me know i fixed it.
On May 14 2011 19:45 Callobono wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 19:29 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
..
This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me. It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true. Would you go up to an obese person and sey hey dude your pretty fat now look at this guy over here hes pretty skinny, and explain it all as you where just stateing a fact and meant no offense. Youd just like to point out to him not cause he cared or it maid a relevant fact or anything but you just felt you had to tell him how it was. Well thats ok and all but you cant call it anything but insulting. Point is this kinda thing is highlights that some people feel they follow the superior scene here on tl but are outnummbered and feel they have to rub it in peoples faces. I could kinda understand sutch a thing but dont try and call it anything but what it is. Not nesecaraly reffering to the op here but responding to the tone i feel from alot of the replys also.
You answered yourself. It might be insulting but it IS RELEVANT.
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On May 14 2011 20:07 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 19:33 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 19:24 ShadeR wrote:On May 14 2011 18:35 Everhate wrote:Specifically talking about MC, after I heard Idra's comments on SotG and decided to take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standard^ Link to the career match list for MC in BW. Now, a few of those were, perhaps, matches he 'should' have won if he were a A-class or so pro, but most of them there is no shame in losing. How many A-class players today, for example, go 0-4 playing Bisu (PvP) twice and ZerO (PvZ) twice? Then add in matches against Stats and Violet, both PvP again. It's possible PvP was just his worse matchup, as it tended to be for quite a few BW players. I'd say there are a fair number of 'top' BW pros that it is reasonable to think they could go 0-6 against this list of opponents. Beating Effort PvZ on HBR I'd have to look back at. I don't have the knowledge level to say if that is impressive or something he should have won. Perhaps he should have won the other 3, or at least 1-2 of those, against the 'lesser' opponents, but I think that, given such a short BW career, it's difficult to say for sure how good he was. Couple days later, the article still has me thinking about these things, so it seems to have its desired result, at least on me. Just thought I'd put these thoughts out there and perhaps see if someone with a heavier history in BW (I am and was more of a casual fan) could inform me about the matches in the list, and whether my thoughts on them are completely off-base. TLPD for Iron's non standard league matches. These games are usually Offline prelims for OSL and MSL or Dreamleague(proleague for the b-team). As you can see he's 56% 42- 33 a much larger sample size. I suppose you can infer from these results that his skill level was that of a good B-teamer, 56% is a respectable winrate. But was not up to par with the rest of proBW A-teamers as indicated by his abysmal 1-9 record. Edit: lol forgot to add the link Iron's stats Your link leads to editing the post, by the way, which does not work. thanks for letting me know i fixed it. Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 19:45 Callobono wrote:On May 14 2011 19:29 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
..
This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me. It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true. Would you go up to an obese person and sey hey dude your pretty fat now look at this guy over here hes pretty skinny, and explain it all as you where just stateing a fact and meant no offense. Youd just like to point out to him not cause he cared or it maid a relevant fact or anything but you just felt you had to tell him how it was. Well thats ok and all but you cant call it anything but insulting. Point is this kinda thing is highlights that some people feel they follow the superior scene here on tl but are outnummbered and feel they have to rub it in peoples faces. I could kinda understand sutch a thing but dont try and call it anything but what it is. Not nesecaraly reffering to the op here but responding to the tone i feel from alot of the replys also. You answered yourself. It might be insulting but it IS RELEVANT.
Thx for not reading i never stated anything about it not being relevant but trying to pass it off as not being insulting was just rediculous.
But agien at this point you could also argue it not being relevant since a majot switch has not happend and dont look to happen in the near furture least not in the wery top lvl.
I wouldent mind if the lvl of competition increased since i mainly watch sc2.
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I never played BW as the fixed 640x480 res did my eyes in. I looked for a resolution fix everywhere but none to be found so I gave-up trying to play the most balanced RTS known to Human-kind (with a sad face). So I missed the whole BW-thing. Luckily there was Dawn of War (which has/d a ton of balance issues tho).
Intrigue's article was quite eye opening for me (some1 who didnt play/follow BW). The points it makes are logical and backed up.
Why didnt Blizzard just use the same BW-game with new graphics ? ... that is the question I would like answered.
Balancing RTS games is like the holy grail. And only BW has achieved it, now Sc2 will take years to get close to BW's balance.
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On May 14 2011 18:51 ffreakk wrote:
If you think it obvious, you ll be surprised how many people actually disagree with it and/or revere those Champions as the best already.
Also its one thing to be hopeful about the future, but the facts and analysis of this article is about the present. And presently the pros arent working hard enough, is what he says.
Hmm. I guess my point is that I don't see why we should criticize pros for not "working hard enough" or in such a regimented way, when the game-state is still in so much flux. Patch changes keep coming out pretty regularly, and there are still two expansions to go. If the game-state were as solid as, for example, broodwar, it would make a lot more sense to have a higher standard. Still, though, I agree with his main point, that pros should be working harder.
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On May 14 2011 19:05 Callobono wrote:So cool story bro but if you dont like sc2 then noone is forceing you to watch it I only came to tl after sc2 like hoard [...] shit where you eat you know)
you should reread the article. They are not saying that sc2 is bad, they are only talking about the current state of the progaming scene.
On May 14 2011 20:28 Parcelleus wrote:
Balancing RTS games is like the holy grail. And only BW has achieved it, now Sc2 will take years to get close to BW's balance.
Sorry to dissapoint you, but BW was in no way the most balanced game ever. Progamers made it balanced. There was a time where protoss couldn't win anything, and rather than whining on forums they (meaning Bisu) came up with something that completely changed the meta game.
Also almost everything in BW was OP.
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On May 14 2011 20:24 Callobono wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 20:07 ShadeR wrote:On May 14 2011 19:33 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 19:24 ShadeR wrote:On May 14 2011 18:35 Everhate wrote:Specifically talking about MC, after I heard Idra's comments on SotG and decided to take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standard^ Link to the career match list for MC in BW. Now, a few of those were, perhaps, matches he 'should' have won if he were a A-class or so pro, but most of them there is no shame in losing. How many A-class players today, for example, go 0-4 playing Bisu (PvP) twice and ZerO (PvZ) twice? Then add in matches against Stats and Violet, both PvP again. It's possible PvP was just his worse matchup, as it tended to be for quite a few BW players. I'd say there are a fair number of 'top' BW pros that it is reasonable to think they could go 0-6 against this list of opponents. Beating Effort PvZ on HBR I'd have to look back at. I don't have the knowledge level to say if that is impressive or something he should have won. Perhaps he should have won the other 3, or at least 1-2 of those, against the 'lesser' opponents, but I think that, given such a short BW career, it's difficult to say for sure how good he was. Couple days later, the article still has me thinking about these things, so it seems to have its desired result, at least on me. Just thought I'd put these thoughts out there and perhaps see if someone with a heavier history in BW (I am and was more of a casual fan) could inform me about the matches in the list, and whether my thoughts on them are completely off-base. TLPD for Iron's non standard league matches. These games are usually Offline prelims for OSL and MSL or Dreamleague(proleague for the b-team). As you can see he's 56% 42- 33 a much larger sample size. I suppose you can infer from these results that his skill level was that of a good B-teamer, 56% is a respectable winrate. But was not up to par with the rest of proBW A-teamers as indicated by his abysmal 1-9 record. Edit: lol forgot to add the link Iron's stats Your link leads to editing the post, by the way, which does not work. thanks for letting me know i fixed it. On May 14 2011 19:45 Callobono wrote:On May 14 2011 19:29 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
..
This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me. It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true. Would you go up to an obese person and sey hey dude your pretty fat now look at this guy over here hes pretty skinny, and explain it all as you where just stateing a fact and meant no offense. Youd just like to point out to him not cause he cared or it maid a relevant fact or anything but you just felt you had to tell him how it was. Well thats ok and all but you cant call it anything but insulting. Point is this kinda thing is highlights that some people feel they follow the superior scene here on tl but are outnummbered and feel they have to rub it in peoples faces. I could kinda understand sutch a thing but dont try and call it anything but what it is. Not nesecaraly reffering to the op here but responding to the tone i feel from alot of the replys also. You answered yourself. It might be insulting but it IS RELEVANT. Thx for not reading i never stated anything about it not being relevant but trying to pass it off as not being insulting was just rediculous. But agien at this point you could also argue it not being relevant since a majot switch has not happend and dont look to happen in the near furture least not in the wery top lvl. I wouldent mind if the lvl of competition increased since i mainly watch sc2.
You made a direct comparison of the article with an analogy you gave where an insulting statement was irrelevant....
I did not try to pass it off as not insulting... i did not type very much how do you miss the "It MIGHT be insulting but it is relevant." part? Perhaps english isn't your first language.
Now you are trying to make the point that because a switch has not occurred that the article is not relevant.... WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN!!! Did you even read the article? Or have have you misunderstood everything in it? Intrigue's piece is relevant simply BECAUSE a mass transition has not occurred.
I'm starting to think all of your posts in this thread have been in response to an imaginary article...certainly not the OP. Not to mention the logical fallacy that since there has not been a major switch that the article is irrelevant when it is in fact the opposite...
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I get what the OP is saying now that Tyler summed it up on SotG.
I completely agree now. Not in the sense that i think Brood War professional are going to come dominated Starcraft 2. But in the sense of entertainment value and wanting to watch pros go at it.
I get a thrill over seeing someone play the game nearly completely perfect like MVP and when he plays against MKP and 4-0 / 4-2's him and makes it one sided it doesn't feel like a championship match... and it isn't. Seeing 2 people who have completely figured out the game and have near flawless mechanics is more interesting and more intense to a lot of people then watching someone completely slaughter their opponent.
I really feel bad because i was one of those people who completely disagreed with this thread and thought of it as dumb. Very interesting point. It makes you think. But its sad that the future of what the OP is talking about is years away with 2 more expansions coming out.
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ugh, im watching the gsl finals vods on gomtv and i noticed that sc2 finals have kpop too ><
NO GAME IS SAFE
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On May 14 2011 20:51 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 20:24 Callobono wrote:On May 14 2011 20:07 ShadeR wrote:On May 14 2011 19:33 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 19:24 ShadeR wrote:On May 14 2011 18:35 Everhate wrote:Specifically talking about MC, after I heard Idra's comments on SotG and decided to take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standard^ Link to the career match list for MC in BW. Now, a few of those were, perhaps, matches he 'should' have won if he were a A-class or so pro, but most of them there is no shame in losing. How many A-class players today, for example, go 0-4 playing Bisu (PvP) twice and ZerO (PvZ) twice? Then add in matches against Stats and Violet, both PvP again. It's possible PvP was just his worse matchup, as it tended to be for quite a few BW players. I'd say there are a fair number of 'top' BW pros that it is reasonable to think they could go 0-6 against this list of opponents. Beating Effort PvZ on HBR I'd have to look back at. I don't have the knowledge level to say if that is impressive or something he should have won. Perhaps he should have won the other 3, or at least 1-2 of those, against the 'lesser' opponents, but I think that, given such a short BW career, it's difficult to say for sure how good he was. Couple days later, the article still has me thinking about these things, so it seems to have its desired result, at least on me. Just thought I'd put these thoughts out there and perhaps see if someone with a heavier history in BW (I am and was more of a casual fan) could inform me about the matches in the list, and whether my thoughts on them are completely off-base. TLPD for Iron's non standard league matches. These games are usually Offline prelims for OSL and MSL or Dreamleague(proleague for the b-team). As you can see he's 56% 42- 33 a much larger sample size. I suppose you can infer from these results that his skill level was that of a good B-teamer, 56% is a respectable winrate. But was not up to par with the rest of proBW A-teamers as indicated by his abysmal 1-9 record. Edit: lol forgot to add the link Iron's stats Your link leads to editing the post, by the way, which does not work. thanks for letting me know i fixed it. On May 14 2011 19:45 Callobono wrote:On May 14 2011 19:29 Squeegy wrote:On May 14 2011 14:57 Probulous wrote:On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
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This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games. As I see it, you quite clearly call SC2 competition a farce and that the current competition is cheapened because the BW pros haven't moved over. How is this not BW elitism? It is clearly stating that my competition is better than yours so yours is a farce. You wrote above that "to get divisive "you're a brood war elitist!!" and "you hate sc2!!" reactions was absolutely not the point." If so why insult SC2? Why not write the rest of the article without the sensationalist tone? It doesn't help your point and it just alienates people. I'm sorry I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you have to result to insulting people. I understand your reasoning around practice regimes etc. But my point is that these few sentences, which you knew would cause controversy, you even state so, ruin the whole article for me. It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true. Would you go up to an obese person and sey hey dude your pretty fat now look at this guy over here hes pretty skinny, and explain it all as you where just stateing a fact and meant no offense. Youd just like to point out to him not cause he cared or it maid a relevant fact or anything but you just felt you had to tell him how it was. Well thats ok and all but you cant call it anything but insulting. Point is this kinda thing is highlights that some people feel they follow the superior scene here on tl but are outnummbered and feel they have to rub it in peoples faces. I could kinda understand sutch a thing but dont try and call it anything but what it is. Not nesecaraly reffering to the op here but responding to the tone i feel from alot of the replys also. You answered yourself. It might be insulting but it IS RELEVANT. Thx for not reading i never stated anything about it not being relevant but trying to pass it off as not being insulting was just rediculous. But agien at this point you could also argue it not being relevant since a majot switch has not happend and dont look to happen in the near furture least not in the wery top lvl. I wouldent mind if the lvl of competition increased since i mainly watch sc2. You made a direct comparison of the article with an analogy you gave where an insulting statement was irrelevant.... I did not try to pass it off as not insulting... i did not type very much how do you miss the "It MIGHT be insulting but it is relevant." part? Perhaps english isn't your first language. Now you are trying to make the point that because a switch has not occurred that the article is not relevant.... WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN!!! Did you even read the article? Or have have you misunderstood everything in it? Intrigue's piece is relevant simply BECAUSE a mass transition has not occurred. I'm starting to think all of your posts in this thread have been in response to an imaginary article...certainly not the OP. Not to mention the logical fallacy that since there has not been a major switch that the article is irrelevant when it is in fact the opposite...
go back read the whole thing and you might spot it was a reply to the poster not the writer of the article i now se you thought i was replying to op.
So agien thx for not reading and makeing wild statements put of context not to say i dident minsunderstand you as well but i never actualy talked about the relevecne of the article in that reply just about how he tried to pass it off as not being insulting.
Hope this confused you further even thought it wasent my intention.
So in the end it could be a response to some imaginary article since it wasent a response to this one.
It's not an insult. It's not elitism. It's stating a fact. When people claim that Finland or Sweden (whoever happens to win gold on Sunday) would not get so far with Canada having their best team is not being an elitist. It's just pointing out something that is obvious and true
(this section is not from the article as you might se witch was what i responded to)
Ps: ye my main language isent english so what im trying to say might not come across as clear as i want it to. (Norway= not english country)
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So well written.
I really hope some of the top dogs switch over, you're getting my all excited
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On May 14 2011 21:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:
ugh, im watching the gsl finals vods on gomtv and i noticed that sc2 finals have kpop too ><
NO GAME IS SAFE
GSL finals are basically kpop concerts followed by a sc2 bo7
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On May 14 2011 19:05 Callobono wrote:So cool story bro but if you dont like sc2 then noone is forceing you to watch it I only came to tl after sc2 like hoards of others and i figure this site also got a huge boost after sc2 came out, and this allmost comes of like tl saying fak sc2 sutch a noob game but it gives revenue so well let it slide. (i know im exagerating here but dont shit where you eat you know)
*sigh* did you actually read anything other than the first line?
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EPT
