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On January 23 2012 05:59 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:56 mordk wrote:On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Well, Dimaga is the local player. Not just the foreigner, but a Ukranian as well, crowd wanted Dimaga to win. You can still give the winner some creds and not be immature and soar losers about it. And even if you don't feel like it or want to you can do it anyways just to show good manner. Even pretend if you have to.
The fact that the games were awful didn't help very much. MMA deserved to win, but the matches weren't pretty in any way. It's pretty hard to feel excited (or even pretend to be excited) when the games are as disappointing as they were.
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On January 23 2012 06:14 Corsica wrote:Imagine if Kas won WCG in Korea? You think Koreans would cheer him on? LOL Gratz MMA 
Actually I do. I think they will at least give him a big round of applause and send him off feeling like a champion. AFAI Koreans value this sorts of things more than we Europeans do.
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On January 23 2012 05:09 ThatGuy89 wrote:
so he is actually a good figther?
i imagined dimaga going after him when mma said 'dimaga who?'
and i wondered who'd win lol, dimaga is a big guy, and i wasnt sure if MMA actually ever learned MMA (lol thats so strange typing that)
Well according to the old Razer interview, MMA was training to be a pro MMA fighter and focused on Jiu Jitsu so he could take down bigger and stronger guys...
So I'd say MMA has a BO Win right there.
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On January 23 2012 06:16 RageCommodore wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:59 Waterflow wrote:On January 23 2012 05:56 mordk wrote:On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Well, Dimaga is the local player. Not just the foreigner, but a Ukranian as well, crowd wanted Dimaga to win. You can still give the winner some creds and not be immature and soar losers about it. And even if you don't feel like it or want to you can do it anyways just to show good manner. Even pretend if you have to. The fact that the games were awful didn't help very much. MMA deserved to win, but the matches weren't pretty in any way. It's pretty hard to feel excited (or even pretend to be excited) when the games are as disappointing as they were.
The audience didn't seem very enthusiastic in any game of the tournament except for when it was a home player.
Look at MLG, Dreamhack and so on. There the crowd cheers for everyone or atleast gives everyone some applaus. I don't see any reason why the winner shouldn't atleast get a little bit of applaus. It's really bad manners imo.
It's no excuse to not cheer the winner on.
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On January 23 2012 06:21 InternalSync wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 06:14 Corsica wrote:Imagine if Kas won WCG in Korea? You think Koreans would cheer him on? LOL Gratz MMA Actually I do. I think they will at least give him a big round of applause and send him off feeling like a champion. AFAI Koreans value this sorts of things more than we Europeans do.
yeah even though they may not like it im 100% sure that if a foreigner won a WCG in S-Korea he would at least get some applaus for being able to "do the impossible". Same thing if a foreigner won Code-S.
South-Koreans might not think very high of foreigners who haven't done much. But a foreigner who wins WCG S-Korea or Code-S would get hugely popular there because then he have proven that he's on the same level as the absolute best koreans and deserve the praise.
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Germany25658 Posts
Congrats MMA After you defeated Zenio and thereby kicked Teamliquid out of the tournament you were honorbound to win XD
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On January 23 2012 06:21 InternalSync wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 06:14 Corsica wrote:Imagine if Kas won WCG in Korea? You think Koreans would cheer him on? LOL Gratz MMA Actually I do. I think they will at least give him a big round of applause and send him off feeling like a champion. AFAI Koreans value this sorts of things more than we Europeans do.
I dont even think its bad to root for your country people. If you look at Sports (not E-Sports) people dont cheer for people from other countries + when its on a home soil.
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Russian Federation163 Posts
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On January 23 2012 06:24 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 06:16 RageCommodore wrote:On January 23 2012 05:59 Waterflow wrote:On January 23 2012 05:56 mordk wrote:On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Well, Dimaga is the local player. Not just the foreigner, but a Ukranian as well, crowd wanted Dimaga to win. You can still give the winner some creds and not be immature and soar losers about it. And even if you don't feel like it or want to you can do it anyways just to show good manner. Even pretend if you have to. The fact that the games were awful didn't help very much. MMA deserved to win, but the matches weren't pretty in any way. It's pretty hard to feel excited (or even pretend to be excited) when the games are as disappointing as they were. The audience didn't seem very enthusiastic in any game of the tournament except for when it was a home player. Look at MLG, Dreamhack and so on. There the crowd cheers for everyone or atleast gives everyone some applaus. I don't see any reason why the winner shouldn't atleast get a little bit of applaus. It's really bad manners imo. It's no excuse to not cheer the winner on.
I know, but it was still a very lacking series, especially considering the extremely close 3rd place match. You're right tho. All in all this tournament endet in a very anticlimactic way.
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On January 23 2012 06:36 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 06:21 InternalSync wrote:On January 23 2012 06:14 Corsica wrote:Imagine if Kas won WCG in Korea? You think Koreans would cheer him on? LOL Gratz MMA Actually I do. I think they will at least give him a big round of applause and send him off feeling like a champion. AFAI Koreans value this sorts of things more than we Europeans do. I dont even think its bad to root for your country people. If you look at Sports (not E-Sports) people dont cheer for people from other countries + when its on a home soil.
Starcraft is different though. It's not a teamgame. It's 1v1. Individual vs Individual. So there's not that kind of a group thing and tension as it is in some sports. It's a different kind of atmosphere. There's no hooligan fanclubs or whatever ^^
Since it's only about 1 player instead of 5 or whatever people tend to look less at where the player is from. Ofcourse that happens but it's not as clear as it is in other sports. There's not so much of that country vs country thing. Atleast not as strong as it is in other sports. It's more relaxed in Starcraft. People tend to have favourite players from all around the world no matter where their from.
For example in tennis (1v1 sport) people always cheer the winner on no matter what. Because tennis is a sport where sportsmanship is very highly valued. So this can be comparable with Starcraft.
It's considered bad mannered to not applaud the winner in a game of Starcraft. In other sports (except sports that is more about manner and gentleman behaviour like tennis) no one gives a crap. There's more <3 and respect in Starcraft compared to other sports.
And ofcourse it's not bad to root for your country people but it's bad to not root for the winner even if he's not from the same country as yourself.
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On January 23 2012 06:14 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Imagine if Kas won WCG in Korea? You think Koreans would cheer him on? LOL Gratz MMA
Probably....
Remember when Jinro beat MC in GSL? Crowd was actually mostly Korean and cheer was loud...
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On January 23 2012 06:14 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Imagine if Kas won WCG in Korea? You think Koreans would cheer him on? LOL Gratz MMA
Yes they would. They cheered for Jinro in GSL semi finals, and for qxc when he team killed IM.
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Congratulations to MMA! Another foreign tournament victory.
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Sign me up this guy is sick good
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On January 23 2012 06:16 RageCommodore wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:59 Waterflow wrote:On January 23 2012 05:56 mordk wrote:On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Well, Dimaga is the local player. Not just the foreigner, but a Ukranian as well, crowd wanted Dimaga to win. You can still give the winner some creds and not be immature and soar losers about it. And even if you don't feel like it or want to you can do it anyways just to show good manner. Even pretend if you have to. The fact that the games were awful didn't help very much. MMA deserved to win, but the matches weren't pretty in any way. It's pretty hard to feel excited (or even pretend to be excited) when the games are as disappointing as they were.
Yeah I agree, if it had been games like in the 3rd place match, maybe the crowd's reaction would have been a bit different. But it's not like they boo'd MMA off the stage or something! When he came on to receive his trophy they were cheering quite loudly. I think you can't really ask for much more of a crowd that just saw the local hero get crushed. I don't blame them for not going absolutely crazy for MMA. I just hope he understands (and I think he does) and it didn't feel too bad for him.
Gratz on winning btw!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
CONGRATS MMA!!
Knew you could do it!
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On January 23 2012 06:16 RageCommodore wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:59 Waterflow wrote:On January 23 2012 05:56 mordk wrote:On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Well, Dimaga is the local player. Not just the foreigner, but a Ukranian as well, crowd wanted Dimaga to win. You can still give the winner some creds and not be immature and soar losers about it. And even if you don't feel like it or want to you can do it anyways just to show good manner. Even pretend if you have to. The fact that the games were awful didn't help very much. MMA deserved to win, but the matches weren't pretty in any way. It's pretty hard to feel excited (or even pretend to be excited) when the games are as disappointing as they were.
The games were not awful, it all depended on how you looked at it.
Game 1: MMA expects Dimaga to go for mutas, so he hits at pre-spire timing. However, Dimaga was busy making lings instead of droning and overrruns the initial force. Dimaga continues to mass ling/bling, and when MMA moves out, he gets overrun again. Basically Dimaga's unorthodox play hard-countered MMA's build.
Game 2: MMA's hellions and banshees force Dimaga to be on the defense while MMA gets greedy and has 4 orbitals. By losing most of his drones at his 3rd base, as well as some banelings and lings he had made early instead of lings, Dimaga was unable to deal with the mech push. Once again, MMA shows the power of macro Terran: If a zerg lets MMA build up an economy, the game soon reaches a point where victory for the zerg is near impossible short of MMA falling asleep.
Game 3: MMA's reaper expand did a ridiculous amount of damage. Once again, MMA grabs a quick third and gets economically greedy. He prevents Dimaga from attacking him by attacking with hellions and marauders. He later keeps Dimaga occupied by skillfully managed drops. By this point, MMA is 50 supply ahead and 4 bases against a 3 base, lair-tech zerg. Game over for Dimaga
Game 4: MMA notices that Dimaga has always gone for hatch first, late pool. Proxy 2 rax. Wins IEM.
The series showcased MMA's incredible macro style of TvZ, as well as his ability to utilize effective cheese to quickly end a game. If one were only to look at game 4, yes, it would look like a terrible series. But MMA is no BitbyBit. He knew he had a 1 game safety net, where even if the 2 rax failed, he would still have a game left, and noticed how Dimaga opened very greedy. Now that is strategy.
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Nice play at IEM. We didn't really see the best of MMA at this event but when you completely outclass your opponents they don't challenge you enough to bring the best out of your play.
Really impressive to see him take home a major LAN win without ever leaving 2nd gear.
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On January 23 2012 08:39 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 06:16 RageCommodore wrote:On January 23 2012 05:59 Waterflow wrote:On January 23 2012 05:56 mordk wrote:On January 23 2012 05:24 InternalSync wrote:
Such a cold crowd in Kiev, kind of disappointing that he got no cheers. Sure last game was cheesy, but the other 3 were great, he deserved some respect from the crowd. At least he gets my respect, MMA fighting! Well, Dimaga is the local player. Not just the foreigner, but a Ukranian as well, crowd wanted Dimaga to win. You can still give the winner some creds and not be immature and soar losers about it. And even if you don't feel like it or want to you can do it anyways just to show good manner. Even pretend if you have to. The fact that the games were awful didn't help very much. MMA deserved to win, but the matches weren't pretty in any way. It's pretty hard to feel excited (or even pretend to be excited) when the games are as disappointing as they were. The games were not awful, it all depended on how you looked at it. Game 1: MMA expects Dimaga to go for mutas, so he hits at pre-spire timing. However, Dimaga was busy making lings instead of droning and overrruns the initial force. Dimaga continues to mass ling/bling, and when MMA moves out, he gets overrun again. Basically Dimaga's unorthodox play hard-countered MMA's build. Game 2: MMA's hellions and banshees force Dimaga to be on the defense while MMA gets greedy and has 4 orbitals. By losing most of his drones at his 3rd base, as well as some banelings and lings he had made early instead of lings, Dimaga was unable to deal with the mech push. Once again, MMA shows the power of macro Terran: If a zerg lets MMA build up an economy, the game soon reaches a point where victory for the zerg is near impossible short of MMA falling asleep. Game 3: MMA's reaper expand did a ridiculous amount of damage. Once again, MMA grabs a quick third and gets economically greedy. He prevents Dimaga from attacking him by attacking with hellions and marauders. He later keeps Dimaga occupied by skillfully managed drops. By this point, MMA is 50 supply ahead and 4 bases against a 3 base, lair-tech zerg. Game over for Dimaga Game 4: MMA notices that Dimaga has always gone for hatch first, late pool. Proxy 2 rax. Wins IEM. The series showcased MMA's incredible macro style of TvZ, as well as his ability to utilize effective cheese to quickly end a game. If one were only to look at game 4, yes, it would look like a terrible series. But MMA is no BitbyBit. He knew he had a 1 game safety net, where even if the 2 rax failed, he would still have a game left, and noticed how Dimaga opened very greedy. Now that is strategy.
I don't say that MMA did anything wrong. Most good players would have done the same tbh, but that's the point: a player relied on a greedy strategy and got crushed 3 games in a row. The reaper game was especially bad as you could see how Dimaga was falling apart under the pressure. It's not the strategies that bothered me, but the one-sidedness of the games. Seeing somebody go down like that isn't pretty to watch (but that's only my opinion), and it's surely not what you'd expect of the final set of the tournament.
The only reason why somebody could see those as "good" games were if you'd only focus on the employed strategies and the flawless execution on MMA's side. But otherwise, you can't disagree that the finals didn't deliver great games.
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EPT
