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On December 23 2012 01:33 hillman wrote:
You do that, soulReaver - disregard away. I actually think they did a little too much nerfing to terran...followed by some necessary zerg buffs. The result has lead to some tough sledding for terrans. But Yeah, I play Zerg so I'm aware of what happened in the patch 6 months ago. It's funny though, because I remember a time when zerg was stuck on two base and it was everything we could do to break out of the terran contain...now it has swung the other way and Scarlett takes 2 bases at a time against MKP.
But MKP usually expands up to three base nearly as quickly as zerg most of the time...then gets free mineral mining with MULES. It's not an economy issue, it's what he does with it. Terran should never get caught off guard, they have free scouting...perfect information, especially late game. And yet I've seen MKP gets surprised by broodlords and drop 3 starports to compensate...when a terran misses the Ultra switch and gets raped they blame it on balance...get beat without mass infestor, blame it on balance.
Watch beat Sting Leenock, how could he win if it's so unfair? MKP used to be agressive like that, which is why I enjoyed watching him...haven't seen that out of him lately. Sting just poured on the early aggression and never let up - he basically said "ok, late game sucks right now, I'll make sure it doesn't get that far". Either way, hopefully HoTS will make everyone feel better....still a toss up though on that.
Ok. I think that's when I realized you don't know what you're talking about.
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did he cast some games after he was out? are there any watch worthy vods?
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On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now  Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups).
Yes I agree with you.
MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics..
What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling.
They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players.
The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing.
Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol
I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same.
Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k +
Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game.
Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors.
I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game.
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On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game.
even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best
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On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best
first of all i said "one of the most" not "the most" .
i am not trying to convince you or anyone if you disagree but tbh if you play and understand high level play you will realize that he is easily top5 most gifted mechanical players in sc2.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
yeah mkp has some sick macro and micro skills (his multitasking is not that great though). he's easily top5 macro + micro together when he's on his game
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On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best
MKP`s mechanics are actually one of the best in SC2.Not even speaking of his micro.His Macro is absolutely excellent.If you watch some replays from him you see how incredible on point he is.
The only players that have better mechanics than the likes of MKP,MVP etc are the Kespa players,which are actually insane mechanically
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France12912 Posts
On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best
Who else?
His control is amazing and he is capable of controling what it seems to be everything at the same time, making him very strong in basetrades.
MKP was Polt's choice as the most mechanically sound player (or terran, don't remember but we can't compare with other races).
Like I don't see any terran yet as good overall mechanicaly. You can see that MMA and BabY have amazing multitask but BaBy's macro isn't spot on, Bomber has impressive macro and micro but not perfected enough.
Polt is as efficient as MKP apm-wise (they both have something like 20% redundancy which is the lowest terrans pros have) but Polt is slower, with as or almost as good control in "main fights" but not doing it fast enough to do it in multi fights.
Edit : about his multitasking, I think he is sometimes slower to react than expected when it's happening at unusual places, often when he is the defender, because he has a slow mouse sensivity, which you counter with camera hotkeys, double tap at army, stuff like that. However most terrans have troubles dealing with harass (TaeJa...) because the race is not really meant to be harassed.
It's quite subjective but honestly MKP losses aren't often, if ever, because he got mechanically outplayed.
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On December 23 2012 10:46 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best Who else? His control is amazing and he is capable of controling what it seems to be everything at the same time, making him very strong in basetrades. MKP was Polt's choice as the most mechanically sound player (or terran, don't remember but we can't compare with other races). Like I don't see any terran yet as good overall mechanicaly. You can see that MMA and BabY have amazing multitask but BaBy's macro isn't spot on, Bomber has impressive macro and micro but not perfected enough. Polt is as efficient as MKP apm-wise (they both have something like 20% redundancy which is the lowest terrans pros have) but Polt is slower, with as or almost as good control in "main fights" but not doing it fast enough to do it in multi fights. It's quite subjective but honestly MKP losses aren't often, if ever, because he got mechanically outplayed.
marineking has the best mechanics in the game. Perhaps Flash and Innovation can keep up with him, but noone else does.
He is pretty stubborn regarding his playstyle and builds though. If he would play a little more safe, he would have so much success, but I guess, it's no fun for him. (I say this without having watched the Stephano series - Nowadays there are a lot reasons to lose a TvZ series without making any major mistake and/or being outplayed mechanically) He loses quite often to simple early game pushs in TvZ and because of strange strategies in TvP. Besides that he might be the perfect terran.
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On December 23 2012 10:54 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:46 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best Who else? His control is amazing and he is capable of controling what it seems to be everything at the same time, making him very strong in basetrades. MKP was Polt's choice as the most mechanically sound player (or terran, don't remember but we can't compare with other races). Like I don't see any terran yet as good overall mechanicaly. You can see that MMA and BabY have amazing multitask but BaBy's macro isn't spot on, Bomber has impressive macro and micro but not perfected enough. Polt is as efficient as MKP apm-wise (they both have something like 20% redundancy which is the lowest terrans pros have) but Polt is slower, with as or almost as good control in "main fights" but not doing it fast enough to do it in multi fights. It's quite subjective but honestly MKP losses aren't often, if ever, because he got mechanically outplayed. marineking has the best mechanics in the game. Perhaps Flash and Innovation can keep up with him, but noone else does. He is pretty stubborn regarding his playstyle and builds though. If he would play a little more safe, he would have so much success, but I guess, it's no fun for him. (I say this without having watched the Stephano series - Nowadays there are a lot reasons to lose a TvZ series without making any major mistake and/or being outplayed mechanically) He loses quite often to simple early game pushs in TvZ and because of strange strategies in TvP. Besides that he might be the perfect terran.
I would not say they are definetly the best.There are other players who are up to par,take Bomber for example who has sick macro and very good micro.
Oh and I would actually say Flash`s overall mechanics are still better.That goes for a lot of the Kespa players which are always spot on
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France12912 Posts
Flash is far from being known for his mechanics though.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
hm, nah. flash and bomber may have similar macro but their micro is not as good as mkp e.g. storm splits
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On December 23 2012 10:57 IMinato wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:54 TeeTS wrote:On December 23 2012 10:46 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best Who else? His control is amazing and he is capable of controling what it seems to be everything at the same time, making him very strong in basetrades. MKP was Polt's choice as the most mechanically sound player (or terran, don't remember but we can't compare with other races). Like I don't see any terran yet as good overall mechanicaly. You can see that MMA and BabY have amazing multitask but BaBy's macro isn't spot on, Bomber has impressive macro and micro but not perfected enough. Polt is as efficient as MKP apm-wise (they both have something like 20% redundancy which is the lowest terrans pros have) but Polt is slower, with as or almost as good control in "main fights" but not doing it fast enough to do it in multi fights. It's quite subjective but honestly MKP losses aren't often, if ever, because he got mechanically outplayed. marineking has the best mechanics in the game. Perhaps Flash and Innovation can keep up with him, but noone else does. He is pretty stubborn regarding his playstyle and builds though. If he would play a little more safe, he would have so much success, but I guess, it's no fun for him. (I say this without having watched the Stephano series - Nowadays there are a lot reasons to lose a TvZ series without making any major mistake and/or being outplayed mechanically) He loses quite often to simple early game pushs in TvZ and because of strange strategies in TvP. Besides that he might be the perfect terran. I would not say they are definetly the best.There are other players who are up to par,take Bomber for example who has sick macro and very good micro. Oh and I would actually say Flash`s overall mechanics are still better.That goes for a lot of the Kespa players which are always spot on
Flash was never known to have best mechanics in BW lol - why do you say "still best" ?
He had insanely good decision making and godly map-awareness, that's why he won.
Sure his mechanics are good but it wasn't his strongest point.
As it's been said, his mechanics, micro/macro are absolutely insane and more often than not, he looses because of weird choices or because he plays too greedy and does not make a bunker in TvZ or stuff like that.
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On December 23 2012 10:54 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:46 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best Who else? His control is amazing and he is capable of controling what it seems to be everything at the same time, making him very strong in basetrades. MKP was Polt's choice as the most mechanically sound player (or terran, don't remember but we can't compare with other races). Like I don't see any terran yet as good overall mechanicaly. You can see that MMA and BabY have amazing multitask but BaBy's macro isn't spot on, Bomber has impressive macro and micro but not perfected enough. Polt is as efficient as MKP apm-wise (they both have something like 20% redundancy which is the lowest terrans pros have) but Polt is slower, with as or almost as good control in "main fights" but not doing it fast enough to do it in multi fights. It's quite subjective but honestly MKP losses aren't often, if ever, because he got mechanically outplayed. marineking has the best mechanics in the game. Perhaps Flash and Innovation can keep up with him, but noone else does. He is pretty stubborn regarding his playstyle and builds though. If he would play a little more safe, he would have so much success, but I guess, it's no fun for him. (I say this without having watched the Stephano series - Nowadays there are a lot reasons to lose a TvZ series without making any major mistake and/or being outplayed mechanically) He loses quite often to simple early game pushs in TvZ and because of strange strategies in TvP. Besides that he might be the perfect terran.
I'm a MKP fan, but he has for sure not the best mechanics, if you see all 3 races he would probably not even be in the top 10.
Best micro yes but not more.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 23 2012 13:31 WeRRa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 10:54 TeeTS wrote:On December 23 2012 10:46 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 10:21 X3GoldDot wrote:On December 23 2012 10:17 WhiteSatin wrote:On December 23 2012 06:11 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:08 MangoSnap wrote:On December 23 2012 06:06 Poopi wrote:On December 23 2012 06:05 MangoSnap wrote:Hmm, a bit disappointed in the result, but glad to see he's just getting hammered now Strange, I figured he was just hiding builds against ret and xlord, but he just used the same 1 rax FE into mech, and then the CC first into 3CC's. I would have liked to see that build he used against Goswser in their first match set 2. It was very Polt-inspired and just abused the crap out of greedy Zergs. There is no such things as hiding builds anymore. Especially not for terrans lol. Every variety we had got shut down by blizzard. Haha, true, it's sad to see that top tier Korean Terrans (not just MKP) have to use their best builds to get past fairly "easy" foreigner zergs. MKP got beaten by a trash mid master zerg on ladder when streaming with reis account lol. It was an allin on daybreak but it tells something about sc2 when such a player can even lose a game against such less skilled opponents (I'm talking about volatility not balance here, could have happened in other match-ups). Yes I agree with you. MKP, is by far one of the most mechanically gifted players that has ever played SC2... and it's so sad to see that Blizzard has made total different skill ceilings in SC2 for the different races. He should be totally outclassing his opponents simply based on his insane mechanics.. What they do not seem to understand is that Different mechanics != Different skill ceiling. They could try to have each race as much micro as possible instead of creating such bullshit like they did with Z where you simply have to macro. I remember when people thought it was hard to play Z (OMG don't miss larva inject) but by now it's quite the opposite. It takes an insane amount of skill as P and especially as T to beat Z players. The fact that they are leaving WoL on its destiny while they are focusing on HotS so heavily is also pretty disappointing. Top 4 Z at HSC despite having invited less Zergs.. lol I personally did not watch from RO4 and forward and most of my friends did the same. Sure people can still say "30k wasn't bad" but the old ones had 50, 60k + Blizzard is leaving the game by itself and the viewership count lowering is nothing more than the spectators getting tired of the same shit every game. Every PvZ is either a sentry-immortal push or a Broodlord infestor A-move across the map where you hope P somehow doesn't die. TvZ is a 1 rax into 3 CC into GG out from broodlord infestors. I would have never thought the most interesting match up was going to be TvP - but it says a lot about the very poor status of the game. even as an mkp fan i disagree that mkp is the most mechanical player of sc2, hes really really good at mechanics but he definitely is not the best Who else? His control is amazing and he is capable of controling what it seems to be everything at the same time, making him very strong in basetrades. MKP was Polt's choice as the most mechanically sound player (or terran, don't remember but we can't compare with other races). Like I don't see any terran yet as good overall mechanicaly. You can see that MMA and BabY have amazing multitask but BaBy's macro isn't spot on, Bomber has impressive macro and micro but not perfected enough. Polt is as efficient as MKP apm-wise (they both have something like 20% redundancy which is the lowest terrans pros have) but Polt is slower, with as or almost as good control in "main fights" but not doing it fast enough to do it in multi fights. It's quite subjective but honestly MKP losses aren't often, if ever, because he got mechanically outplayed. marineking has the best mechanics in the game. Perhaps Flash and Innovation can keep up with him, but noone else does. He is pretty stubborn regarding his playstyle and builds though. If he would play a little more safe, he would have so much success, but I guess, it's no fun for him. (I say this without having watched the Stephano series - Nowadays there are a lot reasons to lose a TvZ series without making any major mistake and/or being outplayed mechanically) He loses quite often to simple early game pushs in TvZ and because of strange strategies in TvP. Besides that he might be the perfect terran. I'm a MKP fan, but he has for sure not the best mechanics, if you see all 3 races he would probably not even be in the top 10. Best micro yes but not more.
macro-wise there are very very few who can keep up with him on a good day
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I don't wanna sound like a douche but it's so obvious his mechanics are top5 that if you think otherwise you have a pretty bad understanding of SC2. As opterwon said, there's very few people who can keep up with his macro, perfect upgrade timings, perfect splits and micro on a good day.
I was 99% sure that you did not needed to be a high master player to realize that but I guess that is not the case as it seems.
Even between pros, he is regarded as one of the most gifted so I am not sure how people can think otherwise.
Anyway, I love him 
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On December 23 2012 13:48 WhiteSatin wrote:I don't wanna sound like a douche but it's so obvious his mechanics are top5 that if you think otherwise you have a pretty bad understanding of SC2. As opterwon said, there's very few people who can keep up with his macro, perfect upgrade timings, perfect splits and micro on a good day. I was 99% sure that you did not needed to be a high master player to realize that but I guess that is not the case as it seems. Even between pros, he is regarded as one of the most gifted so I am not sure how people can think otherwise. Anyway, I love him
Tbh you sound like a bronze fangirl and no progamer ever said MKP is known for being very gifted or having the best mechanics. Half of the kespa players have better mechanics than him, wich is not suprising if you see how hard they practice.
MKP is my favorite player by far, but i'm no little fangirl who thinks MKP is the best player, cause he is not. Last GSL the players said MKP would be one of the easier opponents in the GSL.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
MKP is an easy opponent because he's stupid, not because his mechanics are bad lol.
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On December 23 2012 14:19 opterown wrote:
MKP is an easy opponent because he's stupid, not because his mechanics are bad lol.
Who said his mechanics are bad?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
if half the kespa players have better mechanics than him, that means that MKP would have to have bad mechanics haha. i honestly believe that apart from flash and bomber, noone is quite as good as mkp at macroing
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EPT
