EPTMarineKing Fan Club - Page 357
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TsGBruzze
Sweden1190 Posts
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
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SoulReaver306
Australia210 Posts
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SoulReaver306
Australia210 Posts
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ZerphyR
Slovenia275 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Hiea
Denmark1538 Posts
Any heavy roach army has the disadvantage that roaches are so supply inefficient that if you just wait you will crush it. | ||
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mccarthyaw
50 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:24 SoulReaver306 wrote: lol Hyrdas. Anything will do these days. Are you upset that Stephano used hydras instead of massing infestors? He won the game without using one of the most imba units, give the man his due. MKP just didn't know how to respond to that build, hopefully he will learn how. | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:27 ZerphyR wrote: Shitty Eu zergs beating Korean terrans is slowly becoming a trend in SC2.. -.- haha you hillarious | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
And we got him casting with MC, not that bad of a trip Now he is free to get wasted | ||
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SoulReaver306
Australia210 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:35 mccarthyaw wrote: Are you upset that Stephano used hydras instead of massing infestors? He won the game without using one of the most imba units, give the man his due. MKP just didn't know how to respond to that build, hopefully he will learn how. Yea, meaning that Zerg can win with anything... User was warned for this post | ||
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Hiea
Denmark1538 Posts
Game 2 was just MKP gaining an early lead with a 12/13 rax and following it up with cancelling the 3rd, he still played to aggressive and it could have been a lot cleaner. Game 3 was the baneling attack slowing down MKP alot, and MKP had no response to it because it's a random timing and he has to play greedy incase Stephano plays greedy, was a slow death where ultralisk just sorrounded everything. Game 4 MKP got in a pretty good position after a 2rax, Stephano went roach/hydra and MKP just had bad control on his medivacs, almost lost his 3rd to hydras, but then he floated it back into the hydras and it died, then MKP just kept attacking with small armies and died a few minutes later. Overall I'm pretty disappointed in MKP's play those games :/ he was far too aggressive. Worst part is now HSC is just gonna be another ZvZ fest so unless we have MKP casting thats me out :/ | ||
Poopi
France12904 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:30 Hiea wrote: Game 3 was standard ZvT where the terran cant really do anything, game 4 MKP just played it really bad after the start, keep losing medivacs when he shouldn't, flying his CC back mid fight and losing it, aswell as CONSTANTLY attacking. Any heavy roach army has the disadvantage that roaches are so supply inefficient that if you just wait you will crush it. If you wait you won't crush it. It's not that simple. With the creep the zerg's army will be very mobile, and he can pretty easily use counter attacks and take bases, then temporizes in order to pop broodlord/infestor army. Especially on cloud kingdom roach/hydra is very strong with the queen buff. However this game MKP played un-MKP like lol. Losing a CC like that, this was MKP-like but losing that many medivacs lol? I guess he is so unused to take fights against roach hydra that he thought : "oh stim a click and his pop dies" but roach hydras take very long to kill off. Plus he didn't wait for combat shields against the initial roach attack, and this is weird because MKP has his upgrades hotkeyed so he can check them out. Even on the daybreak game, when he attacked into creep he wasn't as cost-effective as he should have been has he microed "MKP-average". Well kinda sad. edit : lol SoulReaver, like we didn't know that already? edit 2 : Stephano is far from being a "shitty eu zerg". I have played against most of the so called "patch zergs" (some in that list aren't considered patchzergs) of these days : VortiX, Slivko, SortOf, JohnnyRecco, XlorD, TLO, Ziktomini, and many others, and also of course Stephano (in his prime, early 2012). It was only ladder and two games, but man it was something else playing against him. It's hard to explain what in his play has this effect, but it opens to you a new perspective in starcraft. So Stephano is far from being a simple eu zerg. | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
Terran? They have to try their best to estimate opponent's unit composition and mass produce barracks/factories/starports to counter it, wrong production choice and your unit composition becomes an expensive paperweight. With how bad mech is these days (until HotS when we will see if it's become a lot better), you're basically pigeonholed into mass bio anyway. Add into the fact that T have the WORST late game armies, and it's a recipe for the race being pretty bad. I would not be surprised in a few years time when the game is figured out - that we will look back and think "how the fuck were Terran even winning games?" Isn't it statistically proven that the majority of T's wins are from early game anyway? I don't see T's winning in any macro game unless they do drops that do much more damage than they should have done. Worst late game armies + Slowest unit production + Worst flexibility in unit composition. That is Terran. Terran can only fix the unit flexibility issue if they spend thousands of resources into building structures which isn't viable at the highest levels of play unless you're very far ahead. It seems these days that playing aggressive or macro is high risk for medium reward while P and Z standard is always medium risk for medium reward. | ||
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SoulReaver306
Australia210 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:41 Poopi wrote: If you wait you won't crush it. It's not that simple. With the creep the zerg's army will be very mobile, and he can pretty easily use counter attacks and take bases, then temporizes in order to pop broodlord/infestor army. Especially on cloud kingdom roach/hydra is very strong with the queen buff. However this game MKP played un-MKP like lol. Losing a CC like that, this was MKP-like but losing that many medivacs lol? I guess he is so unused to take fights against roach hydra that he thought : "oh stim a click and his pop dies" but roach hydras take very long to kill off. Plus he didn't wait for combat shields against the initial roach attack, and this is weird because MKP has his upgrades hotkeyed so he can check them out. Even on the daybreak game, when he attacked into creep he wasn't as cost-effective as he should have been has he microed "MKP-average". Well kinda sad. edit : lol SoulReaver, like we didn't know that already? One of the Stephano fanboys must have leaked into the MKP fanclub. Seems to think that Z wins are legit. | ||
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hillman
United States162 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:27 ZerphyR wrote: Shitty Eu zergs beating Korean terrans is slowly becoming a trend in SC2.. -.- Naw man, Stephano is the best foreign player...he just beat your boy with Hydras and all you can do is call him shitty? | ||
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hillman
United States162 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:46 Consummate wrote: The problem with the game is that P and Z have insane unit production abilities while T don't, so when it hits late game, T ALWAYS have a disadvantage with respect to pushing power. Z and P will insta remax their army and do another 200/200 push while T are stuck on around 170/200 or something. T lack the flexibility in unit composition unlike Z and P, where for Z, they can build every unit from 1 structure which makes predicting army composition literally impossible, while P get most of their important units from Gateways (with only needing a few Robos for collosi.. However slightly changed in HotS). Terran? They have to try their best to estimate opponent's unit composition and mass produce barracks/factories/starports to counter it, wrong production choice and your unit composition becomes an expensive paperweight. With how bad mech is these days (until HotS when we will see if it's become a lot better), you're basically pigeonholed into mass bio anyway. Add into the fact that T have the WORST late game armies, and it's a recipe for the race being pretty bad. I would not be surprised in a few years time when the game is figured out - that we will look back and think "how the fuck were Terran even winning games?" Isn't it statistically proven that the majority of T's wins are from early game anyway? I don't see T's winning in any macro game unless they do drops that do much more damage than they should have done. Worst late game armies + Slowest unit production + Worst flexibility in unit composition. That is Terran. Terran can only fix the unit flexibility issue if they spend thousands of resources into building structures which isn't viable at the highest levels of play unless you're very far ahead. It seems these days that playing aggressive or macro is high risk for medium reward while P and Z standard is always medium risk for medium reward. Yeah but Terran basically doesn't need more than a handful of drones late game if they prepare and make enough CCs. Zerg NEEDS at least 66 drones to survive usually. That's about 30-40 in army supply that Terran can make armies with. But I agree with a lot you are saying there, the only reason I think Terran won so much before was the economic advantage, essentially free economy. Now other races have figured out how to survive the earlier pressure and thrive. Whoever it was that just beat Leenock in Fight Club was playing a really aggressive and cool style of terran. I don't think MKP was playing inspired against Stephano at all. | ||
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hillman
United States162 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:46 SoulReaver306 wrote: One of the Stephano fanboys must have leaked into the MKP fanclub. Seems to think that Z wins are legit. Yeah, that definitely wasn't a legit zerg win...I mean, he only used an innovative build MKP sucked at dealing with, while MKP played pretty bad. But still, that doesn't make it legit, no zerg wins are legit, no matter what. If they don't go mass infestor then it must be some other bullshit going on. | ||
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SoulReaver306
Australia210 Posts
And even then the 30 extra supply that the Terran has rarely translates to battle wins because the Zerg comp is so efficient these days. The fungal nerf might affect this in the future, but right now no Terrans have really taken advantage of it. | ||
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SoulReaver306
Australia210 Posts
On December 23 2012 01:01 hillman wrote: Yeah, that definitely wasn't a legit zerg win...I mean, he only used an innovative build MKP sucked at dealing with, while MKP played pretty bad. But still, that doesn't make it legit, no zerg wins are legit, no matter what. If they don't go mass infestor then it must be some other bullshit going on. You know that Zerg buffs that led to this era of Zerg domination did not touch the infestor right? The early queen defense and the overlord movement speed led to the ability to take 3 bases early, which then led to an absurd infestor count in the midgame. This means that even when they don't go infestors, Zergs are relying on a buff which allows them to power units with all the economy they will ever need. That is probably the reason that going hyrda wasn't possible until now. And that is why I am disregarding Stephano's win. | ||
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ZerphyR
Slovenia275 Posts
On December 23 2012 00:48 hillman wrote: Naw man, Stephano is the best foreign player...he just beat your boy with Hydras and all you can do is call him shitty? He got supply blocked 10 times in the series, which shouldn't happen to 'the best foreigner'.. Also, being the race he is there is no need to micro, so he can just macro. | ||
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