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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On April 04 2011 20:09 Razzah wrote: Im guessing you have a degree in human psyche? People in anything have always enjoyed others getting hurt, comedians, and people like idra. Sometimes I think that no degree in "human psyche" would help me understand some people. You guys are impossible. Oh, and you're wrong by the way. | ||
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Raavi
Denmark156 Posts
Maybe the emotions, rivalry, drama is the reason why Starcraft 2 is about to explode in the west? | ||
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Davidmu
28 Posts
On April 04 2011 20:00 Talin wrote: Creating drama attracts the wrong kind of viewers to the scene. It turns it into the cesspool that a lot of FPS communities are. Realize that if you want e-sports to grow, you DO NOT want a trashtalking nerd gamer kid stereotype representing it and you DO NOT want fans of similar mentality. That kind of scene might attract some extra viewers in some cultures (that the community is better off without anyway), but in a long run it will only block any further growth and keep it away from mainstream. Also, compare some other western e-sports that generate that kind of "drama" to the Korean BW scene which is strictly professional and holds up to very high standards of behaviour - it's not that hard to see which one is more successful, more popular, more profitable and more mainstream. So how about we look up to something that's actually proven to work instead? So no, personal drama and childishness isn't a recipe for the success of e-sports. That stuff can only help some fringe competitive video games or some "sports" specifically designed to cater to that kind of "audience". Starcraft is neither, at least I hope. I hope for your sake your not in advertising or marketing or something like that. Also you're in the wrong thread. | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On April 04 2011 20:32 Talin wrote: Sometimes I think that no degree in "human psyche" would help me understand some people. You guys are impossible. Oh, and you're wrong by the way. Great argument, saying he's wrong. The fatal flaw in your poor argument is that you compare IdrA with the "cesspool" CS pro's and community. IdrA is cool, compossed, never screams (like just about every FPS player) and he doesn't ever base his arguments opinion on worthless arguments such as "you're wrong by the way". He always has an argument based on empiric facts... now those facts may or may not be right and that is another discussion but what the point is is that IdrA thinks they're right and thus he'll argue through them; He won't ever talk pure shit, he'll always atleast believe he is 100% right through facts not opinions. That is why most of us loves his badassery, sure we all know he spices up his version through his vision and feelings but it's atleast always partly valid. IdrA has been a black knight for along time but he's also the only one who can speak his mind even when it's not positive giving alot of things valuable feedback. Example is his argument in TSL_Rain vs Nestea (Micro vs Macro) where he put it quite bluntly and simplisticlly perfect: "I don't argue wether rain's rushes are a valid play of sc2 or not, even if they were, it still produces boring games for people to watch and is detrimental to the sport as whole." Now stop trolling a topic dedicated to a person since it's as retarded as putting ones dick in a ants nest. | ||
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zedi
165 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On April 04 2011 20:47 Krehlmar wrote: Great argument, saying he's wrong. Oh, you mean like "Do you have a degree in 'human psyche'" great? Good then. I didn't think I needed to make an argument against something that's factually incorrect, people just need to look it up or know what they're talking about. There are examples of e-sports being insanely successful without any of the elements he thinks are "necessary" for media attention or w/e. There are even more examples of people who don't follow an (e)sport so they can enjoy "seeing people get hurt" or trash talking - in fact I'd say people who take pleasure in that kind of stuff are kind of weird to say the least. So yeah, he's pretty much wrong. On April 04 2011 20:47 Krehlmar wrote: The fatal flaw in your poor argument is that you compare IdrA with the "cesspool" CS pro's and community. IdrA is cool, compossed, never screams (like just about every FPS player) and he doesn't ever base his arguments opinion on worthless arguments such as "you're wrong by the way". now those facts may or may not be right and that is another discussion but what the point is is that IdrA thinks they're right and thus he'll argue through them; He won't ever talk pure shit, he'll always atleast believe he is 100% right through facts not opinions. I don't care about his opinions (or "what he 100% believes are facts" which is otherwise known as an opinion as well), I care about behaviour and sportsmanship - or in Idra's case, lack of. I also care about people trying to turn that into a positive thing for the game and the scene. Just because he doesn't scream and talks in an even tone doesn't mean he's composed and cool. He's been far from a composed professional in pretty much any recent interview or public appearance. He's easily irritable and has unprofessional, disrespectful and childish outbursts all the time. I'm not questioning his belief that his opinions are based on facts, nor how right or wrong he usually is, just the way he's expressing it. And by the way, "fuck off" has nothing to do with opinions or facts. And I'm not just talking about yesterday's games vs HuK, he's consistently insulted players before (while streaming in KR, in between games etc). Also, his judging of other players' skill is more insulting than objective or insightful. On April 04 2011 20:47 Krehlmar wrote: Now stop trolling a topic dedicated to a person since it's as retarded as putting ones dick in a ants nest. The thread may be dedicated to a single person, but the recent topic on the thread was about what is good for e-sports. I coudn't care less about the thread or the person, but I do have an opinion on the current topic of discussion - that I didn't start, by the way. Some people have very delusional views on that which I would like to respond to, which is what I'm doing. On April 04 2011 20:49 zedi wrote: Sorry, but the cultural differences between USA and Korea are a reason big enough why the same scheme won't work outside Korea. This is actually a very valid point (unlike most others). However, most of the original Starcraft community has been influenced by Korean e-sports a lot more than the western gaming culture. This community already has the "right" foundations. And all cultural differences aside, if you want Starcraft to reach the point where kids can enjoy watching it on TV or even online at home anywhere in the world, you can't base it around concepts of "trashtalk drama marketing". Eventually it'll hit a wall and won't ever progress beyond the typical gamer audience (and gamer audience is usually fickle and disloyal / unreliable). User was warned for this post | ||
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Davidmu
28 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBitterTV#p/u/1/fLCYKWIX3x4 | ||
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Mycl
Australia1370 Posts
On April 04 2011 21:27 Talin wrote: And all cultural differences aside, if you want Starcraft to reach the point where kids can enjoy watching it on TV or even online at home anywhere in the world, you can't base it around concepts of "trashtalk drama marketing". Eventually it'll hit a wall and won't ever progress beyond the typical gamer audience (and gamer audience is usually fickle and disloyal / unreliable). Well we haven't hit that wall yet have we? So till the day comes when we all become boring robotic people lets enjoy players like Idra while we can. | ||
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Snettik
Finland186 Posts
Idra is just and honest guy and i love that. I hate it when it is impossible to say if somebody is really intrested in the thing you are saying or just being good mannered in real life so i naturally like idra a lot. I'm not sure is it good for e-sports or not but i don't really care at all... | ||
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Harrow
United States245 Posts
Been loving the interesting plays Idra pulled out at MLG, especially stuff like fast tunneling claws. Even if it is a bit of a guessing game, I'm still gonna try and work some stuff like that into my game. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
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number1gog
United States1081 Posts
On April 04 2011 21:37 Davidmu wrote: Im with nazgul http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBitterTV#p/u/1/fLCYKWIX3x4 I like that. You can always rely on Naz for a mature, well spoken opinion. Thanks for the link. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 04 2011 22:31 Harrow wrote: I think if music is ever going to be enjoyed by people anywhere in the world we need to stop supporting arrogant, trash talking artists like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, NWA, The Smiths, Bob Dylan, Kanye West. Eventually it'll hit a wall and won't ever progress beyond the typical music-listener audience. Been loving the interesting plays Idra pulled out at MLG, especially stuff like fast tunneling claws. Even if it is a bit of a guessing game, I'm still gonna try and work some stuff like that into my game. Yeah I thought it was a good step forward too. Mixing it up certainly improved his chances and in the end it wasn't a Protoss that took him out. By the way as I said in the LR thread; I wonder if IdrA tilted himself with those comments after the HuK game? I know personally if I make a controversial comment like that, even if it's justified, it's hard to get it off your mind. Having made that comment and got so emotional about the win it must've been almost impossible to focus on the next game. | ||
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walklightwhat
Australia752 Posts
On April 04 2011 23:02 Klive5ive wrote: Yeah I thought it was a good step forward too. Mixing it up certainly improved his chances and in the end it wasn't a Protoss that took him out. By the way as I said in the LR thread; I wonder if IdrA tilted himself with those comments after the HuK game? I know personally if I make a controversial comment like that, even if it's justified, it's hard to get it off your mind. Having made that comment and got so emotional about the win it must've been almost impossible to focus on the next game. I doubt the comments had anything to do with it. He said in his interview with MrBitter that he was too relaxed going into it. IdrA just got beaten (primarily) by some nicely executed aggression by TLO. | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
I mean just because you are better and that things you say might be true, does not mean you have to say them. If you do, you are arrogant and cocky simple as that. And also Idra often say stuff that is just plain wrong. Like Morrow not winning anything if he switched to zerg. morrow today is not far from Idras zerg. And even the comment about Huk not winning anything if he did not play protoss, man does even Idra belive that himself? Some stuff is fun, others are not. Idra is the type of person who say what he wants and he will get people who love him for it but he has to accept that a shitload will hate him for it aswell and he deservs that. | ||
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nWong
Canada145 Posts
keep it up idra | ||
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Divine_
Sweden115 Posts
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Asparagus
United States269 Posts
On April 04 2011 23:27 purpose wrote: lol why do people care so much tbh? Is Idra bad for esports....fuck no, is he good for esport, he might actually be. Is he also arrogant and cocky....for sure. Idra is not the best SC2 player in the world, he is note even close so when he walks around smacking down on lesser skilled players it smells bad. I mean just because you are better and that things you say might be true, does not mean you have to say them. If you do, you are arrogant and cocky simple as that. And also Idra often say stuff that is just plain wrong. Like Morrow not winning anything if he switched to zerg. morrow today is not far from Idras zerg. And even the comment about Huk not winning anything if he did not play protoss, man does even Idra belive that himself? Some stuff is fun, others are not. Idra is the type of person who say what he wants and he will get people who love him for it but he has to accept that a shitload will hate him for it aswell and he deservs that. Note another foreign zerg that has even compares to his standing record, or any other foreign zerg that has performed well in every gsl? I think retaining class-S every season is hardly "not even close" He tells it how it is, and anyone who tells him otherwise or calls him on his shit better have the credentials or better not be protoss. | ||
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Squirrel_x360a
Australia305 Posts
Good luck in future endeavours, Greg. | ||
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