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On March 28 2011 08:53 xaneda wrote:
Meh, it was idra's own fault for losing g1 and g3... g1 zergs already know that on the old shakuras plateau, pvz is extremely difficult when they forge fe and go collosus voidray and you have to trade armies to counter this - drops/muta switches/roach corruptor using the gas you would have used on hydras into corruptors to just keep killing voids/collosus are 3 ways of dealing with this. What i don't know is why idra didn't decide to do this... i have seen him beat this exact same strategy on cross positions on his stream using roach corruptor
g3 he made drones after seeing a large gateway army coming at him, which didn't make any sense to me... based on the stalker heavy composition he could have deterred that that was at least 5gateways. cruncher obviously made hallucination to trick idra since you usually get this upgrade when you intend to tech after expanding with 3gate sentry and the terrain is extremely good for warpgate rushes since it is easy to put very protected pylons on the cliffs and the expansion outside the main is very wide open.
it sucks that idra lost because imo he is the better player, but in these games he deserved to lose and now hes out
Idra didnt see all of the warpgates so it could have easily been a poke or bluff to force him into making units while the toss turtled up and macrod more. Idra had to make a guess to make drones or make units.
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787 Posts
On March 28 2011 08:27 jdseemoreglass wrote:Could someone inform me why IdrA refuses to switch races? I understand he prefers zerg play style, and I understand he has invested so much time in zerg, but honestly neither of those things justifies getting continuously crushed by exploitive gimmicks like massing void rays. I mean looking at the long run, I don't see why he doesn't reach this conclusion. I've decided to switch after this ladder reset and I know many other zerg's who are following suit. And don't tell me he has "self-respect" that joke is old. 
I keep thinking the game thing... He would do great if he went back to Terran like in his BW days. I would love to see Idra play as Terran.
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On March 28 2011 08:53 xaneda wrote:
g3 he made drones after seeing a large gateway army coming at him, which didn't make any sense to me... based on the stalker heavy composition he could have deterred that that was at least 5gateways. cruncher obviously made hallucination to trick idra since you usually get this upgrade when you intend to tech after expanding with 3gate sentry and the terrain is extremely good for warpgate rushes since it is easy to put very protected pylons on the cliffs and the expansion outside the main is very wide open.
it sucks that idra lost because imo he is the better player, but in these games he deserved to lose and now hes out
er he saw what looked like the usual sentry zealot push which is usually just to kill a few zerglings relatively safely and the watchtowers. he found out that it was actually the 6 gate timing push too late, he responded correctly based on the information he had.
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I think game 1 showed how ridiculous a death ball is, but game 3 I can understand he kinda lost. You can always have units made before they begin a push, you don't have to wait until it starts. He had to have known crusher would do something like that, especially after taking that risky far natural.
Oh well, that game 2 made me happy enough, im glad IdrA owned that one up.
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he didn't use infestors at all and Cruncher with masses of armored units...
first game, that is.
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On March 28 2011 09:15 ilbh wrote:
he didn't use infestors at all and Cruncher with masses of armored units...
first game, that is.
Version 1.2.2, not 1.3. No point of infestors
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On March 28 2011 07:30 Elementsu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:29 poor_little_pinkus wrote:On March 28 2011 06:30 Kalingingsong wrote:
A guy who's smart enough to handle getting into physics and korean starcraft not smart enough to handle his own mouth? I think not. He's definitely faking it.
in other words, IdrA's real genius is not sc2, IdrA's real genius is he's excellent at selling himself to the audience. If I were a CEO i'd definitely hire him as my marketing guy.
Having intelligence means having manners? That's very naive.. I'd say smart nerds generally have worse manners (read: open arrogance) than the average joe in my experience. He has bad manners because he's immature imo. A girlfriend would probably fix it (theorycrafting here; no idea if he has one :-)! He`s not immature, he just says the truth.
speaking the truth is not always the smartest thing to do lol.
If IdrA wants skill to matter more, he should just quit sc2 and go play chess. That's just the truth.
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On March 28 2011 08:42 starcraft2rush wrote:
IdrA PLEASE SWITCH TO PROTOSS.
You are a great and very talented player-one of the best(anyone who isn't in troll mode or just hates you for some random reason can see that).
Sure it would take awhile to get it back up to the level your at but just smurf it for a month man. you would dominate so hard as a macro toss...it would be fucking scary.
At this point it is disgusting to see Idra's full potential being held back because of his race choice. If he had picked Protoss and stayed with it from the start I have no doubt he would have twice the success in SC2 than he currently has.
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So sorry to hear about the loss. I hope you get so mad you will MLG and NASL.
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On March 28 2011 09:18 ratMortar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:15 ilbh wrote:
he didn't use infestors at all and Cruncher with masses of armored units...
first game, that is.
Version 1.2.2, not 1.3. No point of infestors
1.2.2??? are you sure? so when was it played?? cause there is no way to play at 1.2.2 nowadays...
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On March 28 2011 08:55 tangwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 08:53 xaneda wrote:
Meh, it was idra's own fault for losing g1 and g3... g1 zergs already know that on the old shakuras plateau, pvz is extremely difficult when they forge fe and go collosus voidray and you have to trade armies to counter this - drops/muta switches/roach corruptor using the gas you would have used on hydras into corruptors to just keep killing voids/collosus are 3 ways of dealing with this. What i don't know is why idra didn't decide to do this... i have seen him beat this exact same strategy on cross positions on his stream using roach corruptor
g3 he made drones after seeing a large gateway army coming at him, which didn't make any sense to me... based on the stalker heavy composition he could have deterred that that was at least 5gateways. cruncher obviously made hallucination to trick idra since you usually get this upgrade when you intend to tech after expanding with 3gate sentry and the terrain is extremely good for warpgate rushes since it is easy to put very protected pylons on the cliffs and the expansion outside the main is very wide open.
it sucks that idra lost because imo he is the better player, but in these games he deserved to lose and now hes out Cruncher getting hallucination doesn't mean he wouldn't just all-in off 5/6 gateways, also have you never heard of feigning pressure?
"Feigning pressure"? Its either pressure or its not
and no idra did not react correctly based on what he saw, he could have made more roaches instead of using every single larvae from his injects to make drones. The units that he did make weren't even enough vs that army which he saw with his lings, nevermind the 6 more warped in units reinforcing. Hallucination indeed wouldn't rule out the possibility of an all in off 5-6gateways but it is indicative of tech, which i feel is why idra made 7 drones instead of units - it was a calculated risk and as with all risks it sometimes backfires. 6gate kills muta openings anyway and you are gonna all in no matter what since you have to cut probes for this attack so theres no reason to get it, cruncher obviously metagamed it by doing this
You get very minor gains for taking a chance and pumping drones without knowing you are safe compared to the cost of not having enough when you start losing units and losing control of your hatchery's production, this is pretty basic game knowledge from brood war. basically idra had a bad day and vastly underestimated cruncher
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On March 28 2011 09:26 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:18 ratMortar wrote:On March 28 2011 09:15 ilbh wrote:
he didn't use infestors at all and Cruncher with masses of armored units...
first game, that is.
Version 1.2.2, not 1.3. No point of infestors 1.2.2??? are you sure? so when was it played?? cause there is no way to play at 1.2.2 nowadays...
The games you are watching on TSL are casted from replays man, they are old games.
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Damn you Artosis for making idra pick zerg!! heh.
I think it would be rash for him to change at the moment, as i'm certain with the patch 1.3 and future ones, zerg will become stronger, and his impeachable knowledge of the race will aid him even further.
Just a note, i haven't seen idra use Infestors or Nydus worms very much, maybe two options he can explore, esp in patch 1.3 
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On March 28 2011 09:26 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:26 ilbh wrote:On March 28 2011 09:18 ratMortar wrote:On March 28 2011 09:15 ilbh wrote:
he didn't use infestors at all and Cruncher with masses of armored units...
first game, that is.
Version 1.2.2, not 1.3. No point of infestors 1.2.2??? are you sure? so when was it played?? cause there is no way to play at 1.2.2 nowadays... The games you are watching on TSL are casted from replays man, they are old games.
yeah, but I didn't know it was before the patch... so, infestors sucked back then lol
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so cruncher took this screenshot?
edit: nvm, seems so obvious now.
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On March 28 2011 08:07 Tynan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:59 vmendi wrote:On March 28 2011 07:30 Tynan wrote:
You HAVE to bluff with a certain randomized frequency or you'll get exploited, even if your normal play is phenomenal. Same thing in Starcraft.
This would be true if SC had randomness/hidden information in itself. The question is: Has it? If you scout and micro perfectly, then randomness is 0. But, as this is not so, it has a lot of randomness in my opinion. I have heard Idra saying a lot of times that worse players beat him because they play the random game (cheese, risky risky strats). I'd like to think that Idra understands that it's impossible to reach the 0 randomness point, that randomness is inherent to the game and that you have to deal with it. I wouldn't call the solution to bluff or even to not always do the same build, this is not poker. There's a better solution: Perfect scouting, perfect mechanics and of course, perfect responses to everything your opponent is doing. That's Idra's aspiration, and that's why he gets pissed off when the opponents sneak something cheesy or when they exploit something which hasn't have a discovered response (void rays/collosi ball). Emphasis mine above. The idea of the "perfect response" is telling. In a game of simultaneous moves or incomplete information, the perfect response isn't always the same thing. Go on wikipedia and look up the idea of mixed-strategy Nash equilibria some time. In real games, the perfect response is to randomly choose between several possible actions at different frequencies. A simple example is rock paper scissors. What is the perfect strategy? It is to play 33% of each move in a totally random pattern. Any deviation from this can be exploited and beaten by an opponent who plays the same move every time. IdrA needs to learn to understand this. Chance is part of the game, it is inseparable from the fact that the game involves incomplete information and simultaneous moves. There is no guaranteed win, there is only having "the best of it", the best chance of winning across all games and all possible outcomes. In poker, you MUST bluff with some frequency or you will be exploited. In Starcraft, you MUST rush or cheese with some frequency or you will be exploited.
Not necessarily. It is often optimal to play an exploitable style if your opponent isn't good enough to exploit that style (or if he simply chooses not to because he has his own plan or whatever). This is true in poker and in Starcraft. I agree though that people do need to learn that randomness is going to be a part of the game no matter what, and they need to realize that a 100% winrate is not going to be possible even if you are always the "best" player.
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Guys, rally behind me and we shall start an anti-cruncher crusade!
To show that we are true fans, we need to express real and utter bitterness for whoever eliminates OUR guy. For me, I am going to tell all my friends to stop watching cruncher's matches. (That's all I can do really).
Down with cuntcher!
Sigh.. at least Nada won today..
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On March 28 2011 09:26 xaneda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 08:55 tangwhat wrote:On March 28 2011 08:53 xaneda wrote:
Meh, it was idra's own fault for losing g1 and g3... g1 zergs already know that on the old shakuras plateau, pvz is extremely difficult when they forge fe and go collosus voidray and you have to trade armies to counter this - drops/muta switches/roach corruptor using the gas you would have used on hydras into corruptors to just keep killing voids/collosus are 3 ways of dealing with this. What i don't know is why idra didn't decide to do this... i have seen him beat this exact same strategy on cross positions on his stream using roach corruptor
g3 he made drones after seeing a large gateway army coming at him, which didn't make any sense to me... based on the stalker heavy composition he could have deterred that that was at least 5gateways. cruncher obviously made hallucination to trick idra since you usually get this upgrade when you intend to tech after expanding with 3gate sentry and the terrain is extremely good for warpgate rushes since it is easy to put very protected pylons on the cliffs and the expansion outside the main is very wide open.
it sucks that idra lost because imo he is the better player, but in these games he deserved to lose and now hes out Cruncher getting hallucination doesn't mean he wouldn't just all-in off 5/6 gateways, also have you never heard of feigning pressure? "Feigning pressure"? Its either pressure or its not and no idra did not react correctly based on what he saw, he could have made more roaches instead of using every single larvae from his injects to make drones. The units that he did make weren't even enough vs that army which he saw with his lings, nevermind the 6 more warped in units reinforcing. Hallucination indeed wouldn't rule out the possibility of an all in off 5-6gateways but it is indicative of tech, which i feel is why idra made 7 drones instead of units - it was a calculated risk and as with all risks it sometimes backfires. 6gate kills muta openings anyway and you are gonna all in no matter what since you have to cut probes for this attack so theres no reason to get it, cruncher obviously metagamed it by doing this You get very minor gains for taking a chance and pumping drones without knowing you are safe compared to the cost of not having enough when you start losing units and losing control of your hatchery's production, this is pretty basic game knowledge from brood war. basically idra had a bad day and vastly underestimated cruncher
....... by your logic you should never ever make drones. im sry but it should be the zerg's goal to sneak in as many drones as possible in a given game, and idra was making enough roaches for what he thought was coming aka the usual sentry zealot push.
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On March 28 2011 09:47 imbs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:26 xaneda wrote:On March 28 2011 08:55 tangwhat wrote:On March 28 2011 08:53 xaneda wrote:
Meh, it was idra's own fault for losing g1 and g3... g1 zergs already know that on the old shakuras plateau, pvz is extremely difficult when they forge fe and go collosus voidray and you have to trade armies to counter this - drops/muta switches/roach corruptor using the gas you would have used on hydras into corruptors to just keep killing voids/collosus are 3 ways of dealing with this. What i don't know is why idra didn't decide to do this... i have seen him beat this exact same strategy on cross positions on his stream using roach corruptor
g3 he made drones after seeing a large gateway army coming at him, which didn't make any sense to me... based on the stalker heavy composition he could have deterred that that was at least 5gateways. cruncher obviously made hallucination to trick idra since you usually get this upgrade when you intend to tech after expanding with 3gate sentry and the terrain is extremely good for warpgate rushes since it is easy to put very protected pylons on the cliffs and the expansion outside the main is very wide open.
it sucks that idra lost because imo he is the better player, but in these games he deserved to lose and now hes out Cruncher getting hallucination doesn't mean he wouldn't just all-in off 5/6 gateways, also have you never heard of feigning pressure? "Feigning pressure"? Its either pressure or its not and no idra did not react correctly based on what he saw, he could have made more roaches instead of using every single larvae from his injects to make drones. The units that he did make weren't even enough vs that army which he saw with his lings, nevermind the 6 more warped in units reinforcing. Hallucination indeed wouldn't rule out the possibility of an all in off 5-6gateways but it is indicative of tech, which i feel is why idra made 7 drones instead of units - it was a calculated risk and as with all risks it sometimes backfires. 6gate kills muta openings anyway and you are gonna all in no matter what since you have to cut probes for this attack so theres no reason to get it, cruncher obviously metagamed it by doing this You get very minor gains for taking a chance and pumping drones without knowing you are safe compared to the cost of not having enough when you start losing units and losing control of your hatchery's production, this is pretty basic game knowledge from brood war. basically idra had a bad day and vastly underestimated cruncher ....... by your logic you should never ever make drones. im sry but it should be the zerg's goal to sneak in as many drones as possible in a given game, and idra was making enough roaches for what he thought was coming aka the usual sentry zealot push.
Yeah i know how to play zerg thanks, probably better than you too. Go rewatch the vod, it was not a "sentry zealot" push. Thanks for trying
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i know it wasnt, idiot. thats what cruncher disguised it as and what idra saw
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EPT
