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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
sad to see months later people can still post passive-aggressive shit in this fanclub and get away with it, funny how people will post things in someones fan club knowing they can get away with it just to piss people off
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On January 18 2012 18:22 Jinsho wrote:
He asked for a description of the game. Get out.
lol. That -is- a description of the two games they played. It sucks, but it's also a fact that MC is much better at pvz then IdrA is.
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On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A.
I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix.
Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep.
What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats.
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On January 18 2012 19:18 Reivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A. I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix. Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep. What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats.
Mutas/Ling/Bane is fine against what Taeja was doing, Idra just needed to play it better. If a strategy doesn't work it's doesn't necessarily mean you need a total upheaval, Sc2 games are decided on much finer margins than that.
If Idra was going Ling/Infestor/Ultra Taeja would have played very differently.
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On January 18 2012 19:39 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 19:18 Reivax wrote:On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A. I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix. Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep. What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats. Mutas/Ling/Bane is fine against what Taeja was doing, Idra just needed to play it better. If a strategy doesn't work it's doesn't necessarily mean you need a total upheaval, Sc2 games are decided on much finer margins than that. If Idra was going Ling/Infestor/Ultra Taeja would have played very differently.
although what you have said are mostly right, but letting a terran starting a third before you do isn't exactly how you want to play the ling muta style
(well, I think any style shouldn't let T getting the third but muta style seems to do worse than infestor style if the terran had been macroing really good and muta couldn't do much harassment)
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On January 18 2012 19:46 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 19:39 Seraphone wrote:On January 18 2012 19:18 Reivax wrote:On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A. I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix. Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep. What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats. Mutas/Ling/Bane is fine against what Taeja was doing, Idra just needed to play it better. If a strategy doesn't work it's doesn't necessarily mean you need a total upheaval, Sc2 games are decided on much finer margins than that. If Idra was going Ling/Infestor/Ultra Taeja would have played very differently. although what you have said are mostly right, but letting a terran starting a third before you do isn't exactly how you want to play the ling muta style
It sounds bad but I've seen people do it to DRG and Leenock a lot and they still win.
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On January 18 2012 19:52 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 19:46 ETisME wrote:On January 18 2012 19:39 Seraphone wrote:On January 18 2012 19:18 Reivax wrote:On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A. I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix. Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep. What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats. Mutas/Ling/Bane is fine against what Taeja was doing, Idra just needed to play it better. If a strategy doesn't work it's doesn't necessarily mean you need a total upheaval, Sc2 games are decided on much finer margins than that. If Idra was going Ling/Infestor/Ultra Taeja would have played very differently. although what you have said are mostly right, but letting a terran starting a third before you do isn't exactly how you want to play the ling muta style It sounds bad but I've seen people do it to DRG and Leenock a lot and they still win.
I mean there are lots of factors to put in consideration like whether the map is good for muta or not and what the opponent is good at but imo, infestors style is more superior if the T is more or less equal in macro because they are more cost efficient especially if the marine counts are high enough to defect the early muta harassment
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I was expecting to see IdrA using burrowed banelings to be honest. He showed that he started doing that during the game with Select. In the game with Taeja he researched burrow too but never used it.
Also as far as my noob eyes can see, he played kinda worse than he did in tourneys. I wonder if there's a reason. Then again, that might be because I'm a noob and can't see through things 
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On January 18 2012 19:57 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 19:52 Seraphone wrote:On January 18 2012 19:46 ETisME wrote:On January 18 2012 19:39 Seraphone wrote:On January 18 2012 19:18 Reivax wrote:On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A. I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix. Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep. What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats. Mutas/Ling/Bane is fine against what Taeja was doing, Idra just needed to play it better. If a strategy doesn't work it's doesn't necessarily mean you need a total upheaval, Sc2 games are decided on much finer margins than that. If Idra was going Ling/Infestor/Ultra Taeja would have played very differently. although what you have said are mostly right, but letting a terran starting a third before you do isn't exactly how you want to play the ling muta style It sounds bad but I've seen people do it to DRG and Leenock a lot and they still win. I mean there are lots of factors to put in consideration like whether the map is good for muta or not and what the opponent is good at but imo, infestors style is more superior if the T is more or less equal in macro because they are more cost efficient especially if the marine counts are high enough to defect the early muta harassment
I really don't think ling infestor ultra is all that good. I saw Marineking vs Stephano at homestory and there was literally nothing Stephano could do. Marineking maxed very quickly doing a bit of light harassment, moved out once and killed Stephano's army whilst losing 20 supply. Stephano was on top of ling upgrades, defended vs quite a few dual medivac drops very well, spread creep well and took plenty of bases. Unfortunately, marinking had 15 tanks, as well as marauders. Stephano lost 100 supply in seconds doing 0 damage to marine king's army.
What could stephano do if he saw his opponent making so many tanks? Switch to 0/0 mutas? He tried to go double spire + brood lords but he was 5 minutes from getting them out. He got crushed.
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On January 18 2012 19:57 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 19:52 Seraphone wrote:On January 18 2012 19:46 ETisME wrote:On January 18 2012 19:39 Seraphone wrote:On January 18 2012 19:18 Reivax wrote:On January 18 2012 13:51 marvin. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 18 2012 05:46 Reivax wrote:
Looked like 4 Build-orderwins tbh. 1st game was 11+12 rax vs 15 hatch 16 gas+pool. All the other games were command center first versus hatch first, the only time IdrA actually had a substantial lead in workers were when he tried to roachbust, and even then he kept the lead too short a time for it to really kick in (mules kinda rock).
Taeja showed a very resilient style in all games, I think if he had 10-pooled in games 2-4 he would have won all of them (if Taeja did exactly the same build, but IdrA 10-pooled), but that's just plainly shut down by a standard barracks wall-in timing.... IdrA had a tough set of games, but lets not kid ourselves here. He was outclassed by Taeja pretty hard. I think he will pick it back up, but saying that a CC first counters hatch first is quite silly seeing as how it also allows a zerg to get a quicker third as well. One macro build vs another macro build =/= BO win. Not to make bold speculations, but hopefully after his Code S loss which didn't look very good either he will adjust his practice accordingly and have a good run in code A. I don't want to take anything away from Taeja, just check out his marine splits for an example of incredible micro skill and the fact that he started a 3rd commandcenter before IdrA's third expansion every game (excepting the first then) showcases his macro timings, but he went for really really risky builds (commandcenter first) in games 2-4, which countered IdrA's basic TvZ style perfectly. He complimented this with getting a lot of marines which had double upgrades, so he was at 2-2 marines vs 2-0 lings and 1-0 mutas when the game was going to get decided, this also derives from the economical advantage from keeping up with the Zerg in terms of numbers of expansions, devastatlingly powerful when you add mules into the mix. Being a SC2 scrub, I can't say for sure what he should have done to counter this, but it seems like instead of investing all that gas into mutas, getting ling/roach/infestor leads to a quicker hive, which leads to Ultras and BLs, which counter Taeja's tactics (he build no vikings or ghosts in any of the games), and you can also afford to keep up in upgrades, and 2-2 lings are pretty scary if you support them with 2-armor roaches, especially defensively on creep. What IdrA did really good in all games imo was his drop defense, he started spine crawlers all over, but being behind on upgrades without the macro to simply pound through the more effiecient Terran army led to his defeats. Mutas/Ling/Bane is fine against what Taeja was doing, Idra just needed to play it better. If a strategy doesn't work it's doesn't necessarily mean you need a total upheaval, Sc2 games are decided on much finer margins than that. If Idra was going Ling/Infestor/Ultra Taeja would have played very differently. although what you have said are mostly right, but letting a terran starting a third before you do isn't exactly how you want to play the ling muta style It sounds bad but I've seen people do it to DRG and Leenock a lot and they still win. I mean there are lots of factors to put in consideration like whether the map is good for muta or not and what the opponent is good at but imo, infestors style is more superior if the T is more or less equal in macro because they are more cost efficient especially if the marine counts are high enough to defect the early muta harassment
Total rubbish. Ling/Infestors has very minimal success rates vs top class Terran's. The primary user of Ling/Infestor, Stephano, has assembled a pretty lengthy losing streak playing top Koreans with ling Infestor. Since IPL3 Stephano has lost to TheSTC, Boxer, MVP, MarineKing and Sound by getting slaughtered playing Ling/Infestor.
Nestea, DRG and Leenock have all won games playing ling/infestor but generally play muta/ling/bane and against MMA and MVP they've all played Muta/Ling/Bane exclusively with the exception of one Blizzcon game Nestea played vs MVP on Shakuras.
Ling/Infestor works if they don't know you're doing it. If you play it every game like Stephano you're going to get crushed hard but if you throw it in every now and then you can win games. It's a gimmicky timing attack based strategies that relies heavily on catching your opponent with his pants down. Muta/Ling/Bane is a lot more solid and reliable, which clearly Leenock and DRG (the top two ZvTers) agree with.
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Fuck yeah, Geoff! Greg is popular!
Considering Greg is awesome though, I think it's positive how you think of us as mini Gregs :3
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"They're like little mini Gregs in there" (not literal quote from Geoff, but near enough)
I, for one, take that as a compliment, thankyouverymuch! 
GO GREG! GO EG!
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where is this "mini-greg" quote from? 0_o
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On January 19 2012 08:38 Whole wrote:
where is this "mini-greg" quote from? 0_o
The EG custom practice game streams. Their streaming is sooo beeeaaaauuutiiifuulll <3
They have the whole EG team on skype doing practice games.
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is Greg and Huk there too or just the EG players in America?
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On January 19 2012 08:45 Whole wrote:
is Greg and Huk there too or just the EG players in America?
Just the ones in America :c If Idra was actually there, the fanclub would be going apeshit crazy over Idra content 
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So, I was thinking now that when Axslav's and StrifeCro's contracts are up... What IF EG decided to drop IdrA? What team would you acutally fancy seeing him go to? Would it be a Korean team or a foreign team, and in that case which?
No, I don't think that EG haven't renewed his contract it is just a discussion I don't think I've seen here in the thread. ^_^
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On January 19 2012 09:11 KvltMan wrote:
So, I was thinking now that when Axslav's and StrifeCro's contracts are up... What IF EG decided to drop IdrA? What team would you acutally fancy seeing him go to? Would it be a Korean team or a foreign team, and in that case which?
No, I don't think that EG haven't renewed his contract it is just a discussion I don't think I've seen here in the thread. ^_^
although it is unlikely, I'd like to see him go to either Liquid (because of the oGs deal) or straight to a Korean team. I really want IdrA to get the best practice.
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On January 19 2012 09:11 KvltMan wrote:
So, I was thinking now that when Axslav's and StrifeCro's contracts are up... What IF EG decided to drop IdrA? What team would you acutally fancy seeing him go to? Would it be a Korean team or a foreign team, and in that case which?
No, I don't think that EG haven't renewed his contract it is just a discussion I don't think I've seen here in the thread. ^_^
THe only foreigner teams I would find acceptable would be Team Liquid, Fnatic, or Mousesports.
Most likely he would try to find a korean team like SlayerS.... although IdrAPrime has a nice ring to it
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EPT
