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That was a great MLG compilation! :D
But what tournament was that pool taken from? The one with Cloud and Bly? Is it happening soon?
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On October 18 2011 11:03 jeeeeohn wrote:
That was a great MLG compilation! :D
But what tournament was that pool taken from? The one with Cloud and Bly? Is it happening soon?
I think it is the ESWC
 Electronics Sports World Cup 2011
Also, I posted this topic in the SC2 General Forum. Basically, it is a detailed post on @GrackenNews.
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+ Show Spoiler +*IdrA replies to a long post about Protoss getting auto-extractors. Show nested quote +Hi everyone!
As previously stated in a thread (I can't find it again sorry), Protoss are having a harder time setting up defense (mainly because to have static defense you are forced to build a forge, it is not direct like bunkers or spines). They mostly have to rely on sentries and narrow chock point, which cost a lost of gas. It does not even allow you to defend, but only to avoid the fight.
Due to warp mechanism and the power of tech units, I have the feeling that Protoss should always lead the aggression during games in a different way that a big death ball or timing attacks. I think that for a long game, a Protoss should have at least 2 branches of the tech tree developed to continue being strong (and maybe win some tournaments...).
The main problem is the gas. Every tech and every unit need a lot of gas and you are force to expand to get them, on at least 3 base without being a bit all-in. 3 bases is kind of hard to defend, since you cannot really split your army.
What I'd like to have is something like an auto extractor for gas. In this way you can have the extra gas you need without investing the 400 minerals that gas be used for Zealots harass and give a little bi of ease when it comes to defend your bases. It could be something you develop through an upgrade at the core for instance (that is only used for warpgate at the time). To avoid sneaking to much auto extractor everywhere we could imagine having different level of upgrades that could allow you to morph your extractors into 1 or 2 auto extractors at a time.
This mechanism could easily be counter by a gling or a marine scouting the map periodically. It will force everyone to gain a little bit more of map control and force fight in different places. But it will allow you to have some power units that can balance you smaller main army because of the harass investment that can often not be saved.
Another thing that bother me is that is hard to have a stargate and a robo at the same time, especially early game. It is mainly because your are forced to build the core and a forge if you want some cannon if your style is based on prism harass. If we consider strategy like zealots phoenix too, it could be far more viable if we could avoid the core at the start, that is only used for warp. Constructing it in a second time, could be great to have warp and air upgrade for instance.
In the end, I just liked to have more depth in the play of protoss.
My english is not very good, so I am having a hard time to make my ideas clear. Please let me know what are you opinions on this.
EDIT :
To make it clear :
- I would still want to have warp gate as a research of the core
- I would only want to have access to the stargate or robo sooner, and it to be an alternative to warp early on. That should be a good news for all I think...
- Since changing the core now is too late. The auto extractor wouldn't need any worker to mine gas, but we could only have 1 or 2 at a time. It is just and additional income (that could have to be teched) to allow Protoss to develop all their tech a little bit faster. david kim?
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I think Huk owes that 1st place to IdrA. that run was amazing.
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Wow, I can't believe this fanclub has 4 million views. No wonder Idra can carry 20k concurrent viewers by himself on jtv!
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TDL just had a great idea. Now that the grack is back, we need an idra montage/highlights video! Maybe we should wait till next MLG, but if anyone is skilled in that art, please consider it.
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Lmfao @ IPL panel talk. Consisting of: Stephano, Select, MC, and iNcontroL.
Audience: "What do you guys like to do when you're just playing SC2 for fun?"
Stephano: "I play Terran, get Marines, Stim Packs, Shields, ya know.."
Select: "I play Protoss and (iNcontroL: "WHAAAAT??") cheese. Yeah, you know! 4gate is fun.
MC: "Winning IdrA."
iNcontroL: "You know you're an icon when people ask people questions and they just reference your name. Actually, I had a lot of fun last time PuMa was at the teamhouse. I asked him to do 2v2s with me, and he's super quiet usually. We did fun stuff, like mass Nukes and Banelings, and the entire time PuMa is just dropping the F-bomb and talking about how sexy he is the whole game."
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On October 18 2011 09:29 PandaMonk wrote:
Now that I am thinking about it, IdrA might just have the worlds best zvt.. i know its crazy with fucking DRG in the picture, but i honestly think IdrA is a real contender for the spot. The last time DRG faced bomber he got THRASHED, it didnt look close. Thorzain also managed to take 2 games off of drg, pushing him to the brink. In a LONG time the last person to beat idra in a zvt, was STC and he was jetlagged to HELL that weekend (same week he thrashed Thorzain). The final killer of DRG was MKP, during the AOL finals. How does idra face up to drg's killers? he BEAT bomber, he THRASHED thorzain, he narrowly lost to MKP, due to a small mistake at the end of the shak game. If idra doesnt have the best zvt in the world, he's second ONLY to DRG. All he needs to do, is get some korean practice, and he WONT be beat, not by terrans, not by protosses, and not by zergs. I think he has the POTENTIAL to reach MVP/Nestea-like levels. all depends on how is korea visit goes.
His resistance to early timing attacks and bunkers rushes is far behind Nestea and DRG's. Yes, I know that they too lose to such strategies, everyone does - but they are better at this by Idra anyway. Also, his late game transitions are still a bit dodgy.
Still, his zvt is pretty good and overall it's on par with anyone but Nestea's.
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I think Idra is always scary in ZvT. But he hasn't proved that he can beat a top protoss. In order to win tournaments, you have to be all around great. Idra is only great in ZvT right now. He needs to be great at ZvP too. And his ZvZ will raise naturely. The most important thing is to make his ZvP as scary as his ZvT. He needs to enjoy slaughtering protosses just like he does slaughtering terrans.
On October 18 2011 14:46 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:29 PandaMonk wrote:
Now that I am thinking about it, IdrA might just have the worlds best zvt.. i know its crazy with fucking DRG in the picture, but i honestly think IdrA is a real contender for the spot. The last time DRG faced bomber he got THRASHED, it didnt look close. Thorzain also managed to take 2 games off of drg, pushing him to the brink. In a LONG time the last person to beat idra in a zvt, was STC and he was jetlagged to HELL that weekend (same week he thrashed Thorzain). The final killer of DRG was MKP, during the AOL finals. How does idra face up to drg's killers? he BEAT bomber, he THRASHED thorzain, he narrowly lost to MKP, due to a small mistake at the end of the shak game. If idra doesnt have the best zvt in the world, he's second ONLY to DRG. All he needs to do, is get some korean practice, and he WONT be beat, not by terrans, not by protosses, and not by zergs. I think he has the POTENTIAL to reach MVP/Nestea-like levels. all depends on how is korea visit goes. His resistance to early timing attacks and bunkers rushes is far behind Nestea and DRG's. Yes, I know that they too lose to such strategies, everyone does - but they are better at this by Idra anyway. Also, his late game transitions are still a bit dodgy. Still, his zvt is pretty good and overall it's on par with anyone but Nestea's.
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Idra would probably go great in Code S right now... It would be possible to go through the entire tournament only facing terrans...
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For Idra to qualify for the Blizzard Cup, he needs to win 1 of the next few tournament. Does anyone know if he is attending Dreamhack?
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On October 18 2011 14:46 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:29 PandaMonk wrote:
Now that I am thinking about it, IdrA might just have the worlds best zvt.. i know its crazy with fucking DRG in the picture, but i honestly think IdrA is a real contender for the spot. The last time DRG faced bomber he got THRASHED, it didnt look close. Thorzain also managed to take 2 games off of drg, pushing him to the brink. In a LONG time the last person to beat idra in a zvt, was STC and he was jetlagged to HELL that weekend (same week he thrashed Thorzain). The final killer of DRG was MKP, during the AOL finals. How does idra face up to drg's killers? he BEAT bomber, he THRASHED thorzain, he narrowly lost to MKP, due to a small mistake at the end of the shak game. If idra doesnt have the best zvt in the world, he's second ONLY to DRG. All he needs to do, is get some korean practice, and he WONT be beat, not by terrans, not by protosses, and not by zergs. I think he has the POTENTIAL to reach MVP/Nestea-like levels. all depends on how is korea visit goes. His resistance to early timing attacks and bunkers rushes is far behind Nestea and DRG's. Yes, I know that they too lose to such strategies, everyone does - but they are better at this by Idra anyway. Also, his late game transitions are still a bit dodgy. Still, his zvt is pretty good and overall it's on par with anyone but Nestea's.
Nestea's ZvT is not amazing imo. If you're going to put anyone at the top def. put DRG. I recall Nestea having some truly horrible bunker rush defense against Mvp iirc. I still think Idra has a ways to go to get to DRG's level but he's pretty close to Nestea's. I'd like to see some variation in the beginning to include roach pressure.
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On October 18 2011 18:27 draw_de wrote:
For Idra to qualify for the Blizzard Cup, he needs to win 1 of the next few tournament. Does anyone know if he is attending Dreamhack?
I don't think the full invite list is out yet. He usually is invited though.
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On October 18 2011 18:37 Shaetan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 18:27 draw_de wrote:
For Idra to qualify for the Blizzard Cup, he needs to win 1 of the next few tournament. Does anyone know if he is attending Dreamhack? I don't think the full invite list is out yet. He usually is invited though.
All the tournament winner invites have been decided (minus one SM winner), but there are still 4 online qualifiers and Idra is actually super good at those, so he'll probably get one of the Online Qualifier invites when those start.
WCG 2011 isn't a safe bet (seeing as no one from NA is going), so Idra needs to make a big splash at DHW (if he gets qualified) or he won't be going to Blizzard Cup. On liquidpedia, it looks like there are 3 GSL invites, which it looks like was based on points, so MC should be the 3rd GSL invite. The two Providence invites would be Huk and theSTC then (would've been nice if Idra and theSTC could fight for 3rd), so Idra is running out of avenues.
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On October 18 2011 18:36 Shaetan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 14:46 xtfftc wrote:On October 18 2011 09:29 PandaMonk wrote:
Now that I am thinking about it, IdrA might just have the worlds best zvt.. i know its crazy with fucking DRG in the picture, but i honestly think IdrA is a real contender for the spot. The last time DRG faced bomber he got THRASHED, it didnt look close. Thorzain also managed to take 2 games off of drg, pushing him to the brink. In a LONG time the last person to beat idra in a zvt, was STC and he was jetlagged to HELL that weekend (same week he thrashed Thorzain). The final killer of DRG was MKP, during the AOL finals. How does idra face up to drg's killers? he BEAT bomber, he THRASHED thorzain, he narrowly lost to MKP, due to a small mistake at the end of the shak game. If idra doesnt have the best zvt in the world, he's second ONLY to DRG. All he needs to do, is get some korean practice, and he WONT be beat, not by terrans, not by protosses, and not by zergs. I think he has the POTENTIAL to reach MVP/Nestea-like levels. all depends on how is korea visit goes. His resistance to early timing attacks and bunkers rushes is far behind Nestea and DRG's. Yes, I know that they too lose to such strategies, everyone does - but they are better at this by Idra anyway. Also, his late game transitions are still a bit dodgy. Still, his zvt is pretty good and overall it's on par with anyone but Nestea's. Nestea's ZvT is not amazing imo. If you're going to put anyone at the top def. put DRG. I recall Nestea having some truly horrible bunker rush defense against Mvp iirc. I still think Idra has a ways to go to get to DRG's level but he's pretty close to Nestea's. I'd like to see some variation in the beginning to include roach pressure.
DRG loses vs Terran more often and also from inferior players. He is good but he is no Nestea. In my opinion Idra is very similar to DRG in the way some aspects of his ZvT are godly and others are not as convincing, while Nestea is amazing overall.
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On October 18 2011 19:16 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 18:36 Shaetan wrote:On October 18 2011 14:46 xtfftc wrote:On October 18 2011 09:29 PandaMonk wrote:
Now that I am thinking about it, IdrA might just have the worlds best zvt.. i know its crazy with fucking DRG in the picture, but i honestly think IdrA is a real contender for the spot. The last time DRG faced bomber he got THRASHED, it didnt look close. Thorzain also managed to take 2 games off of drg, pushing him to the brink. In a LONG time the last person to beat idra in a zvt, was STC and he was jetlagged to HELL that weekend (same week he thrashed Thorzain). The final killer of DRG was MKP, during the AOL finals. How does idra face up to drg's killers? he BEAT bomber, he THRASHED thorzain, he narrowly lost to MKP, due to a small mistake at the end of the shak game. If idra doesnt have the best zvt in the world, he's second ONLY to DRG. All he needs to do, is get some korean practice, and he WONT be beat, not by terrans, not by protosses, and not by zergs. I think he has the POTENTIAL to reach MVP/Nestea-like levels. all depends on how is korea visit goes. His resistance to early timing attacks and bunkers rushes is far behind Nestea and DRG's. Yes, I know that they too lose to such strategies, everyone does - but they are better at this by Idra anyway. Also, his late game transitions are still a bit dodgy. Still, his zvt is pretty good and overall it's on par with anyone but Nestea's. Nestea's ZvT is not amazing imo. If you're going to put anyone at the top def. put DRG. I recall Nestea having some truly horrible bunker rush defense against Mvp iirc. I still think Idra has a ways to go to get to DRG's level but he's pretty close to Nestea's. I'd like to see some variation in the beginning to include roach pressure. DRG loses vs Terran more often and also from inferior players. He is good but he is no Nestea. In my opinion Idra is very similar to DRG in the way some aspects of his ZvT are godly and others are not as convincing, while Nestea is amazing overall.
.... use TLPD
 NesTea has AMAZING ZvZ (92%) and very good ZvP (83%), but his ZvT (57%) has been good, nothing amazing,just good
DRG has the best ZvT (69%) in Korea, probably the best in the world (beating players with SICK TvZ like  MKP and MMA) , but isnt better in other matchups when compared to NesTea.
NesTea's ZvZ and ZvP is way better than DRG's, but his ZvT iS slightly behind DRG's.
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Use it indeed. Look at the players Nestea has faced and those DRG has faced - and also look at the tournaments. Recalculate Nestea's stats without the 3 Code S matches against MVP and DRG's without all the GSTL victories. Statistics are nothing without context.
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yea definitely agree with Wockets. id put idra, DRG, and nestea as the three arguably top zergs in the world. nesteas ZvZ and ZvP is far better than DRG, but his early-mid game ZvT is usually pretty iffy, once he defends those first pushes though he is unstoppable. DRG has pretty good ZvZ and ZvP, and really good ZvT. so i think idra is more comparable to DRG, id still put DRG a little higher, but idra has been impressing lately so it could go either way pretty soon.
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The thing is only mvp seems to be able to beat nestea regularly any other terran will probably lose
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EPT
