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http://www.allkpop.com/2011/01/kepa-expresses-concerns-over-the-impact-of-jyj-hangeng-terminating-their-contracts
He's basically describing the viewpoint of the KEPA in saying that; he doesn't want to set a precedent for idols terminating their contracts over not getting enough money.
This whole debacle is a pretty interesting one. According to this article, it takes approximately $150,000 to debut one member. In which case, to create a five-member group like KARA's, it'll take around 838 million won, based on the numbers they have given us. But that's only creation. If you count the expenses they put out for after they debut, I would imagine that it does take it's toll.
Given that, it's actually pretty easy to see why contracts are created the way they are. Given the surplus of girl/boy idol groups that have formed, there is absolutely no guarantee that you're going to get a large return off of them. I don't really know the statistics regarding sales and whatnot, but I think that the majority of groups have a hard time making a good deal of profit due to oversaturation of the market.
I'm pretty sure that SM or DSP had no idea that DBSK and KARA were going to be as successful as they are today. The long contracts were probably a insurance plan to make sure that they don't at least go bankrupt promoting a group that may turn out to be a total bust.
Of course, then the contracts become grossly unfair for these popular groups...
I don't know. It's difficult to say: on one hand, it's very easy to say that contracts should be shortened and reworked so that the artists get more money/freedom/say in what they do, but then if a company has already invested so much in an idol's future career, you would expect them to have a lot of power. After all, they are making them into what they are.
But in the end, it's the company's responsibility. They know what they're getting into when they throw down a billion yen to make a girl group. They know the market is oversaturated, and that there's a lot of risk in the group flunking. Giving out shitty contracts though, probably isn't going to help: if a group sucks, it sucks. Having it around for five more years of sucking won't turn out well for both you and the artists.
More importantly, giving out bad contracts probably isn't worth it in the long run: it's inevitable there's going to be huge conflict with money if they're popular. At best, they don't resign with your company, and go off and do their own thing somewhere else. At worst, they're going to try to overturn your contract. Either way, you're screwed.
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Earlier articles made it sound like Japan's split is lower than that of Korea's. Even so, the management company (DSP) was making 16% of the total profits from 15.74 million USD in sales. Thanks to the fact that they decided to have a separate management company in Japan, they got only 8%. Despite the fact that this amount boils down to something significantly less than the normal cut, it's still more than 2x the amount of the supposed training costs from just one album (mini, iirc).
I refuse to believe that companies like DSP don't handily recoup their training costs and come out in the black, even with less popular groups. None of these companies have fallen on "hard times" -- they're profiting hand-over-fist.
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On January 22 2011 12:39 DarkOptik wrote:http://www.allkpop.com/2011/01/kepa-expresses-concerns-over-the-impact-of-jyj-hangeng-terminating-their-contractsHe's basically describing the viewpoint of the KEPA in saying that; he doesn't want to set a precedent for idols terminating their contracts over not getting enough money. This whole debacle is a pretty interesting one. According to this article, it takes approximately $150,000 to debut one member. In which case, to create a five-member group like KARA's, it'll take around 838 million won, based on the numbers they have given us. But that's only creation. If you count the expenses they put out for after they debut, I would imagine that it does take it's toll. Given that, it's actually pretty easy to see why contracts are created the way they are. Given the surplus of girl/boy idol groups that have formed, there is absolutely no guarantee that you're going to get a large return off of them. I don't really know the statistics regarding sales and whatnot, but I think that the majority of groups have a hard time making a good deal of profit due to oversaturation of the market. I'm pretty sure that SM or DSP had no idea that DBSK and KARA were going to be as successful as they are today. The long contracts were probably a insurance plan to make sure that they don't at least go bankrupt promoting a group that may turn out to be a total bust. Of course, then the contracts become grossly unfair for these popular groups... I don't know. It's difficult to say: on one hand, it's very easy to say that contracts should be shortened and reworked so that the artists get more money/freedom/say in what they do, but then if a company has already invested so much in an idol's future career, you would expect them to have a lot of power. After all, they are making them into what they are. But in the end, it's the company's responsibility. They know what they're getting into when they throw down a billion yen to make a girl group. They know the market is oversaturated, and that there's a lot of risk in the group flunking. Giving out shitty contracts though, probably isn't going to help: if a group sucks, it sucks. Having it around for five more years of sucking won't turn out well for both you and the artists. More importantly, giving out bad contracts probably isn't worth it in the long run: it's inevitable there's going to be huge conflict with money if they're popular. At best, they don't resign with your company, and go off and do their own thing somewhere else. At worst, they're going to try to overturn your contract. Either way, you're screwed.
I totally agree, but who cares if the company turns these artists into who they are, they should be treated fairly regardless, as one can't exist without the other. If you're going to put all that time into becoming an idol, you'd expect not just fame but fortune. If I was working my ass off and losing hours of sleep almost everyday just for fame and a pay which rivals that of fast food restaurants, then I'd be terminating my contract too.
So it all does boil down to how fair you treat your artists, sure it's gunna hurt your profits, but just cause you want money, doesn't mean you should disregard your artists. Well that's what happens when you get too selfish.
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wait does that mv mean seeya is no longer gonna promote? they are done? =/ confused...
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On January 22 2011 17:52 TzaTzers wrote:
wait does that mv mean seeya is no longer gonna promote? they are done? =/ confused...
They are going to split up.
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oh that sucks.. =( umm just out of curiosity, any word on davichi and what they are doing? =o
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I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the next few months. Just the usual downtime between albums, atm.
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I had this discussion with a few peeps a week ago or something, and I feel I should make a poll here to test the viewpoints.
+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Who do you like most from secret?Ji-Eun (29) 38% Hyosung (24) 32% Sunhwa (12) 16% Zinger (11) 14% 76 total votes Your vote: Who do you like most from secret? (Vote): Zinger
(Vote): Hyosung
(Vote): Ji-Eun
(Vote): Sunhwa
If I'm the only one who votes zinger i'm gonna ;;.
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oh gotcha thanks, was just a bit sad with the mini album they released ha didnt really like the song they promoted that much but instead i liked their song 첫키스 (First Kiss) much better so im hoping for some good music from them soon! =D
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On January 22 2011 19:13 Megaliskuu wrote:I had this discussion with a few peeps a week ago or something, and I feel I should make a poll here to test the viewpoints. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Who do you like most from secret?Ji-Eun (29) 38% Hyosung (24) 32% Sunhwa (12) 16% Zinger (11) 14% 76 total votes Your vote: Who do you like most from secret? (Vote): Zinger
(Vote): Hyosung
(Vote): Ji-Eun
(Vote): Sunhwa
If I'm the only one who votes zinger i'm gonna ;;.
Why no one voted for Ji-eun? (I'm the first yay)
It is very sad seeing KARA leave after SS501  . I'm a sone yet my favorite company is DSP, but maybe not anymore.
EDIT: Oh, now I see ji eun on top.
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On January 22 2011 19:13 Megaliskuu wrote:I had this discussion with a few peeps a week ago or something, and I feel I should make a poll here to test the viewpoints. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Who do you like most from secret?Ji-Eun (29) 38% Hyosung (24) 32% Sunhwa (12) 16% Zinger (11) 14% 76 total votes Your vote: Who do you like most from secret? (Vote): Zinger
(Vote): Hyosung
(Vote): Ji-Eun
(Vote): Sunhwa
If I'm the only one who votes zinger i'm gonna ;;.
Any of them but the retard.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 22 2011 19:13 Megaliskuu wrote:I had this discussion with a few peeps a week ago or something, and I feel I should make a poll here to test the viewpoints. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Who do you like most from secret?Ji-Eun (29) 38% Hyosung (24) 32% Sunhwa (12) 16% Zinger (11) 14% 76 total votes Your vote: Who do you like most from secret? (Vote): Zinger
(Vote): Hyosung
(Vote): Ji-Eun
(Vote): Sunhwa
If I'm the only one who votes zinger i'm gonna ;;.
Song Ji eun, got the looks got the voice got the aegyo.
GG no re
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To be honest, the korean industry can do much better if it adopts the american music industry method of compensation. For the most part, singers are given advances on their albums, with them profiting mostly on concert tours and the like. This way, there's no debate on whether the percentage is too low or whatever, you get a flat rate, and they have the opportunity to make more by putting on shows and concerts. If they were popular, they'd be making more money, simple as that. People complain about Kara and TVXQ making cents on the dollar for their albums, but if you look at American artists, they make almost the same (they just sell more albums).
Also, they should really start hiring agents to negotiate. Your parents are great and all, but they aren't really business people and they won't be able to stand up to record companies.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 22 2011 23:37 kakaman wrote:
To be honest, the korean industry can do much better if it adopts the american music industry method of compensation. For the most part, singers are given advances on their albums, with them profiting mostly on concert tours and the like. This way, there's no debate on whether the percentage is too low or whatever, you get a flat rate, and they have the opportunity to make more by putting on shows and concerts. If they were popular, they'd be making more money, simple as that. People complain about Kara and TVXQ making cents on the dollar for their albums, but if you look at American artists, they make almost the same (they just sell more albums).
Also, they should really start hiring agents to negotiate. Your parents are great and all, but they aren't really business people and they won't be able to stand up to record companies.
Yet this is Korea and not America or a western world, parents are hold in high esteem and regard(that is not to say the western society does not,just not as much). Children listen much more to their parents, that is not something you can just drastically change. On top of that, The Korea industry won't do this becaues now they just make tons of money without having to pay their artists alot. Sure they get court cases but in the end they make incredible amounts of money compared to the investment they put into it. It is due to the trainee system that they get forced into poor contracts, and that is the core of the problem.
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I think that the main reason the western methodology won't work in Korea is because album sales are incredibly higher in the U.S. than in Korea. Where a top idol group gets 200,000 copies sold (based on the sales figures for this year), a good artist in the U.S. can easily make 2 million album sales.
It's also the reason that Japan is such a lucrative investment: popular groups in Japan also net millions of album sales, and this isn't even including the new digital album sales that is becoming increasingly mainstream nowadays. So whereas in Japan and the U.S you can make a living off of "making music" (I use that term loosely to refer to simply putting out albums and singles), the same case doesn't apply in Korea.
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Also because on a typical us concert tour you're going to stop at 20 or more locations and play several concerts at many of them, whereas in Korea there are far fewer cities to go to and therefore fewer concerts to hold, not to mention increased competition since so many acts are touring at the same time with a limited number of venues. As a result, you see many established pretty popular acts not have a concert for years after their popularity. For example, secret and iu are pretty popular and have been for awhile but I don't think they've had a solo concert yet. Even groups that have, like b2st, have only had one, about to be 2, after being around for a year.
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On January 23 2011 02:23 DystopiaX wrote:
Also because on a typical us concert tour you're going to stop at 20 or more locations and play several concerts at many of them, whereas in Korea there are far fewer cities to go to and therefore fewer concerts to hold, not to mention increased competition since so many acts are touring at the same time with a limited number of venues. As a result, you see many established pretty popular acts not have a concert for years after their popularity. For example, secret and iu are pretty popular and have been for awhile but I don't think they've had a solo concert yet. Even groups that have, like b2st, have only had one, about to be 2, after being around for a year.
I read somewhere that concerts in Korea are also super cheap, like $10~$15 or something even for big name artists (don't remember if it was a random website, blog site or TL blog or thread).
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Dream Concert tickets were pretty high, iirc. Same with SM Town in California.
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On January 23 2011 02:25 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 02:23 DystopiaX wrote:
Also because on a typical us concert tour you're going to stop at 20 or more locations and play several concerts at many of them, whereas in Korea there are far fewer cities to go to and therefore fewer concerts to hold, not to mention increased competition since so many acts are touring at the same time with a limited number of venues. As a result, you see many established pretty popular acts not have a concert for years after their popularity. For example, secret and iu are pretty popular and have been for awhile but I don't think they've had a solo concert yet. Even groups that have, like b2st, have only had one, about to be 2, after being around for a year. I read somewhere that concerts in Korea are also super cheap, like $10~$15 or something even for big name artists (don't remember if it was a random website, blog site or TL blog or thread).
No, I don't think they're cheap at all. If you average the ticket prices for each seat, it's approximately $100, and if you're paying for some of the better ones, it skyrockets up to around $180. Keeping in mind that this is in USD, I would say that it's in fact rather expensive for the average Korean fan.
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EPT
