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Well, it is a movie that does take a difficult subject, life in prison, and succeed in making the watcher forget.
It has a message of hope. It has true friendship. It leaves unanswered the question about what Morgan Freeman did to get there.
Getting simple things right is not easy. Repeating something many times, is good teaching, you do not get extra credits for confusing your viewer. You can't criticize the mass for liking a movie that does perfectly things that the mass like and then wonder why the mass doesn't go for sublime movies that will bring a tear to your eye.
Your argument, well developed, don't seems to go higher than the arguments of the other side saying about your favorite films that they were ok, just a bit boring.
I personally thinks there is something wonderful in making a production that unites so many people from different background.
I am half-french and this sounds a lot like my friends from France talking, it's not a bad way to think, it is just perceived as arrogance.
I had the same kind of argument about a game where I was pretty much in your situation, wondering why people would praise blindly the design of a game, where stuff that were praised were made in a very cheesy way. I was very sad because I couldn't learn any useful argument because the other side was posting blindly.
This is what is happening here and I hope my short and superficial points helps a bit. It was a good movie, I wouldn't put it on the top of my list, I might even wonder why it is on the top spot... Yet it does everything right to make you smile with a happy ending.
All your critics remain valid, though.
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oh booooy, here we go again rofl
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Jackie Brown 8/10
Kind of have mixed feelings about this film but overall, I'm pleasantly surprised. Tarantino shows a lot more restraint here than his other films. It pretty much has all the token Tarantino-isms but they're just not as "loud" and the main characters aren't as flashy. Side characters and their respective storylines were pretty disappointing however. I found Ordell, Robert DeNiro's character and the cop and any dialogue they were engaged in to be really dull. Jackie Brown's part was perfectly cast though. Right mix of angst, loneliness and quiet pride. And the way everything is resolved seemed anti-climactic initially but makes sense considering Jackie's character.
I'd recommend it. It's a shame this film doesn't get as much attention as his other works. I'd say it's not as good as Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs, but definitely better than the Kill Bills and Django Unchained.
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On July 23 2013 06:15 0x64 wrote:
Well, it is a movie that does take a difficult subject, life in prison, and succeed in making the watcher forget.
It has a message of hope. It has true friendship. It leaves unanswered the question about what Morgan Freeman did to get there.
Getting simple things right is not easy. Repeating something many times, is good teaching, you do not get extra credits for confusing your viewer. You can't criticize the mass for liking a movie that does perfectly things that the mass like and then wonder why the mass doesn't go for sublime movies that will bring a tear to your eye.
Your argument, well developed, don't seems to go higher than the arguments of the other side saying about your favorite films that they were ok, just a bit boring.
I personally thinks there is something wonderful in making a production that unites so many people from different background.
I am half-french and this sounds a lot like my friends from France talking, it's not a bad way to think, it is just perceived as arrogance.
I had the same kind of argument about a game where I was pretty much in your situation, wondering why people would praise blindly the design of a game, where stuff that were praised were made in a very cheesy way. I was very sad because I couldn't learn any useful argument because the other side was posting blindly.
This is what is happening here and I hope my short and superficial points helps a bit. It was a good movie, I wouldn't put it on the top of my list, I might even wonder why it is on the top spot... Yet it does everything right to make you smile with a happy ending.
All your critics remain valid, though.
Wow, a good argumentative post, thank you 
That being said I partially disagree, not only because I think my arguments are stronger than what you say (and anyway I don't think that many people I've seen my favorite movies, which means those who dislike them usually have a lot more to say than they were a bit "boring"), but because I think some of your arguments do not hold up that well. You say "succeed in making the watcher forget.", well, I don't think that if the movie really achieves that, it is a success. What would the point of the prison be in this case ?
More importantly "Repeating something many times, is good teaching" : that's true, but we're watching a movie, we're not here to be taught. That's exactly why I say the movie is pompous. Also I don't think "the mass" particularly liked Shawshank, after all it wasn't a huge it when it went out. And you say people like simple things, but when I see what some people say about Titanic (an infinitely better movie by the way), I swear I'm seeing double standards. You can be simple without being stupid.
But really, thank you, you developped a position I can understand, you gave good arguments even if I disagree with them. That makes an interesting discussion possible, contrary to... well anyway^^
And yeah, I've heard it's a cultural thing to argue that much about that sort of things in France, but as I personnally think it's a good thing, I don't really care if I come off as arrogant.
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On July 23 2013 06:23 EpiK wrote:Jackie Brown 8/10 Kind of have mixed feelings about this film but overall, I'm pleasantly surprised. Tarantino shows a lot more restraint here than his other films. It pretty much has all the token Tarantino-isms but they're just not as "loud" and the main characters aren't as flashy. Side characters and their respective storylines were pretty disappointing however. I found Ordell, Robert DeNiro's character and the cop and any dialogue they were engaged in to be really dull. Jackie Brown's part was perfectly cast though. Right mix of angst, loneliness and quiet pride. And the way everything is resolved seemed anti-climactic initially but makes sense considering Jackie's character.
It's my favorite Tarantino, probably because as you stated, he shows more restraint, and I'm not that fan of some of his excessive mannerism. The fact that he had to work on a source material really helped that. I think it helps him focus the obvious talent he possesses.
I think Samuel L. Jackson has never been as funny, and I quite liked the dumb humour with De Niro. The triple point of view scene is amazing. Pam Grier is really really good.
I'd agree on the mark though
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On July 23 2013 07:00 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:15 0x64 wrote:
Well, it is a movie that does take a difficult subject, life in prison, and succeed in making the watcher forget.
It has a message of hope. It has true friendship. It leaves unanswered the question about what Morgan Freeman did to get there.
Getting simple things right is not easy. Repeating something many times, is good teaching, you do not get extra credits for confusing your viewer. You can't criticize the mass for liking a movie that does perfectly things that the mass like and then wonder why the mass doesn't go for sublime movies that will bring a tear to your eye.
Your argument, well developed, don't seems to go higher than the arguments of the other side saying about your favorite films that they were ok, just a bit boring.
I personally thinks there is something wonderful in making a production that unites so many people from different background.
I am half-french and this sounds a lot like my friends from France talking, it's not a bad way to think, it is just perceived as arrogance.
I had the same kind of argument about a game where I was pretty much in your situation, wondering why people would praise blindly the design of a game, where stuff that were praised were made in a very cheesy way. I was very sad because I couldn't learn any useful argument because the other side was posting blindly.
This is what is happening here and I hope my short and superficial points helps a bit. It was a good movie, I wouldn't put it on the top of my list, I might even wonder why it is on the top spot... Yet it does everything right to make you smile with a happy ending.
All your critics remain valid, though. Wow, a good argumentative post, thank you That being said I partially disagree, not only because I think my arguments are stronger than what you say (and anyway I don't think that many people I've seen my favorite movies, which means those who dislike them usually have a lot more to say than they were a bit "boring"), but because I think some of your arguments do not hold up that well. You say "succeed in making the watcher forget.", well, I don't think that if the movie really achieves that, it is a success. What would the point of the prison be in this case ? More importantly "Repeating something many times, is good teaching" : that's true, but we're watching a movie, we're not here to be taught. That's exactly why I say the movie is pompous. Also I don't think "the mass" particularly liked Shawshank, after all it wasn't a huge it when it went out. And you say people like simple things, but when I see what some people say about Titanic (an infinitely better movie by the way), I swear I'm seeing double standards. You can be simple without being stupid. But really, thank you, you developed a position I can understand, you gave good arguments even if I disagree with them. That makes an interesting discussion possible, contrary to... well anyway^^ And yeah, I've heard it's a cultural thing to argue that much about that sort of things in France, but as I personally think it's a good thing, I don't really care if I come off as arrogant.
I feel you. I have a lot of movie I love and noone to talk about them. The thing is saying something is boring or not seeing it because you think it will be boring is almost the same thing. Also it is clear a drama about prison, I wouldn't bet on a theatrical mainstream success and clearly the rating of the movie is a positive feedback loop (so many people see it just because it is on the top of the list).
The thing is that even when we watch more movie, some style won't please. Let's take me and Hitchcock, Maybe the only movie I'd see again would be Rear Window. At the same time I absolutely love what Fritz Lang did and had an argument with a friend who was like "People only love Fritz Lang because he is so high on Imdb". In the end I love if when a story is timeless, and can forgive a lot. Probably why I enjoyed more Shawshank Redemption than I enjoyed some older thrillers.
The critic I have toward Titanic and Shawshank is that they have the 90's stench :D, I don't know how to describe it.
Back on the subject, the key to the movie, is learning. Movies are not done to educate, but learning is the recurrent theme of shawshank. Learning how to adapt no matter how bad the situation gets. Learning from books. Learning about people when you have 20 years. The hidden message is maximize your chance, something you learn from Poker, it's not about bad luck, it's about playing your card right, again and again... It is no coincidence the main character is a banker.
Anyway, I'm making this shit up as the clock get closer to two in the morning and I have to work tomorrow, I'll read through later!
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On July 23 2013 07:00 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:15 0x64 wrote:
Well, it is a movie that does take a difficult subject, life in prison, and succeed in making the watcher forget.
It has a message of hope. It has true friendship. It leaves unanswered the question about what Morgan Freeman did to get there.
Getting simple things right is not easy. Repeating something many times, is good teaching, you do not get extra credits for confusing your viewer. You can't criticize the mass for liking a movie that does perfectly things that the mass like and then wonder why the mass doesn't go for sublime movies that will bring a tear to your eye.
Your argument, well developed, don't seems to go higher than the arguments of the other side saying about your favorite films that they were ok, just a bit boring.
I personally thinks there is something wonderful in making a production that unites so many people from different background.
I am half-french and this sounds a lot like my friends from France talking, it's not a bad way to think, it is just perceived as arrogance.
I had the same kind of argument about a game where I was pretty much in your situation, wondering why people would praise blindly the design of a game, where stuff that were praised were made in a very cheesy way. I was very sad because I couldn't learn any useful argument because the other side was posting blindly.
This is what is happening here and I hope my short and superficial points helps a bit. It was a good movie, I wouldn't put it on the top of my list, I might even wonder why it is on the top spot... Yet it does everything right to make you smile with a happy ending.
All your critics remain valid, though. Wow, a good argumentative post, thank you That being said I partially disagree, not only because I think my arguments are stronger than what you say (and anyway I don't think that many people I've seen my favorite movies, which means those who dislike them usually have a lot more to say than they were a bit "boring"), but because I think some of your arguments do not hold up that well. You say "succeed in making the watcher forget.", well, I don't think that if the movie really achieves that, it is a success. What would the point of the prison be in this case ? More importantly "Repeating something many times, is good teaching" : that's true, but we're watching a movie, we're not here to be taught. That's exactly why I say the movie is pompous. Also I don't think "the mass" particularly liked Shawshank, after all it wasn't a huge it when it went out. And you say people like simple things, but when I see what some people say about Titanic (an infinitely better movie by the way), I swear I'm seeing double standards. You can be simple without being stupid. But really, thank you, you developped a position I can understand, you gave good arguments even if I disagree with them. That makes an interesting discussion possible, contrary to... well anyway^^ And yeah, I've heard it's a cultural thing to argue that much about that sort of things in France, but as I personnally think it's a good thing, I don't really care if I come off as arrogant.
You come off as more unsympathetic to me more than anything. You don't care about the other persons views and opinions beyond it being a point to argue about.
Anyway, I watched The Conjuring and loved it. The best horror movie in a long long time. No unnecessary swearing, blood, violence or any of that. I am actually surprised it picked up an R rating. It is certainly a good scary movie, but to earn an R rating purely because it is so scary? Maybe not. The only thing that I wished it had more of, were subtle scares. Things that you barely see a glimpse of and get that shiver going down your spine.
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corumjhaelen, what is a good movie similar to shawshank that you recommend?
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Harmony Korine's Spring Breakers (2012)
![[image loading]](http://www.thefablife.com/files/gallery/spring-breakers/Spring-Breakers4.jpg)
Having finally seen this I'm baffled how people still think that Korine actually has a message in any of his films. I guess it's a satire, but it's the most low brow and basest satire possible (like calling Cannibal Holocaust a social commentary). There is no deep meaning behind Korine's weirdness. I don't mind low brow and exploitation, Russ Meyer is a master and I still love Korine's Gummo, but unlike Gummo which had fascinating scenes throughout, here it's basically similar montages over and over in between arbitrary scenes of "character development." I thought it was interesting at first, and I did love the party scene before they got arrested, but it got tiresome. If it was more abstract and shorter I might have dug it. Also I know many people disagree, but I cannot stand James Franco.
On July 23 2013 08:19 MarlieChurphy wrote:
corumjhaelen, what is a good movie similar to shawshank that you recommend?
Let me answer for him. If you mean similiar as in prison escape movie, the best there is: Robert Bresson's A Man Escaped (1956)
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I haven't seen Spring Breakers yet, but I will say that Gummo and Julien Donkey Boy are fucking intense, weird, and delightful in the strangest way possible. I've heard that SB'ers is a pretty large departure from his previous aesthetic though, so I'm not too optimistic.
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corumjhaelen are you one of those self-proclaimed authorities on good taste who won't list anything you like but will gladly hide behind Cassavetes to deflect from having any actual taste? Insulting Hollywood cinema for not conforming to auteur theory is insufferably boring. You basically cut off any possibility for meaningful dialogue by positioning yourself as a prig. Thanks for preaching the artistic excellence of Hitchcock and Tarkovsky to the philistines masses of this thread. I was actually confused whether or not Frank Darabont was highbrow until I read your posts. So you're saying there's this canon, and anything outside of it is trash? That sounds like an original and worthwhile perspective.
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Canada5565 Posts
![[image loading]](http://longshotfactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-house-i-live-in-poster.jpg)
Good.
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Saw Gummo, thought it was crap. Saw Trash Humpers, thought it was even worse. I do not have high hopes for Spring Breakers.
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On July 23 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 07:00 corumjhaelen wrote:On July 23 2013 06:15 0x64 wrote:
Well, it is a movie that does take a difficult subject, life in prison, and succeed in making the watcher forget.
It has a message of hope. It has true friendship. It leaves unanswered the question about what Morgan Freeman did to get there.
Getting simple things right is not easy. Repeating something many times, is good teaching, you do not get extra credits for confusing your viewer. You can't criticize the mass for liking a movie that does perfectly things that the mass like and then wonder why the mass doesn't go for sublime movies that will bring a tear to your eye.
Your argument, well developed, don't seems to go higher than the arguments of the other side saying about your favorite films that they were ok, just a bit boring.
I personally thinks there is something wonderful in making a production that unites so many people from different background.
I am half-french and this sounds a lot like my friends from France talking, it's not a bad way to think, it is just perceived as arrogance.
I had the same kind of argument about a game where I was pretty much in your situation, wondering why people would praise blindly the design of a game, where stuff that were praised were made in a very cheesy way. I was very sad because I couldn't learn any useful argument because the other side was posting blindly.
This is what is happening here and I hope my short and superficial points helps a bit. It was a good movie, I wouldn't put it on the top of my list, I might even wonder why it is on the top spot... Yet it does everything right to make you smile with a happy ending.
All your critics remain valid, though. Wow, a good argumentative post, thank you That being said I partially disagree, not only because I think my arguments are stronger than what you say (and anyway I don't think that many people I've seen my favorite movies, which means those who dislike them usually have a lot more to say than they were a bit "boring"), but because I think some of your arguments do not hold up that well. You say "succeed in making the watcher forget.", well, I don't think that if the movie really achieves that, it is a success. What would the point of the prison be in this case ? More importantly "Repeating something many times, is good teaching" : that's true, but we're watching a movie, we're not here to be taught. That's exactly why I say the movie is pompous. Also I don't think "the mass" particularly liked Shawshank, after all it wasn't a huge it when it went out. And you say people like simple things, but when I see what some people say about Titanic (an infinitely better movie by the way), I swear I'm seeing double standards. You can be simple without being stupid. But really, thank you, you developped a position I can understand, you gave good arguments even if I disagree with them. That makes an interesting discussion possible, contrary to... well anyway^^ And yeah, I've heard it's a cultural thing to argue that much about that sort of things in France, but as I personnally think it's a good thing, I don't really care if I come off as arrogant. You come off as more unsympathetic to me more than anything. You don't care about the other persons views and opinions beyond it being a point to argue about.
If I didn't care about other persons views and opinions, then why would I argue ? Arguing is an excellent way to understand people's views and opinions, and to go farther than the unintersting "I like/I don't like".
On July 23 2013 08:19 MarlieChurphy wrote:
corumjhaelen, what is a good movie similar to shawshank that you recommend?
Let me answer for him. If you mean similiar as in prison escape movie, the best there is: Robert Bresson's A Man Escaped (1956)
I love Bresson's film, but I would actually recommend Le Trou, which I think is as good, more accessible and closer to Shawshank in theme. It also has a weakness in common with Shawshank (the prisonner are a bit too nice), but I have reasons to forgive him.
On July 23 2013 10:27 zulu_nation8 wrote:
corumjhaelen are you one of those self-proclaimed authorities on good taste who won't list anything you like but will gladly hide behind Cassavetes to deflect from having any actual taste? Insulting Hollywood cinema for not conforming to auteur theory is insufferably boring. You basically cut off any possibility for meaningful dialogue by positioning yourself as a prig. Thanks for preaching the artistic excellence of Hitchcock and Tarkovsky to the philistines masses of this thread. I was actually confused whether or not Frank Darabont was highbrow until I read your posts. So you're saying there's this canon, and anything outside of it is trash? That sounds like an original and worthwhile perspective.
Way to misunderstand everything I said. Hollywood has produced many films I love and hold dear, even if I think there has been a decline in quality quite some times ago. And I also believe auteur theory is dumb so that's for you. As for my taste, I don't know why you're so interested in this, but I have posted quite a lot in this thread, so I'm not exactly hiding anything.
I'm also really impressed how people would rather attack me with less than subtle ad hominem rather than actually try to discuss the movie, but after the TDKR thread, I'm not really surprised either.
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Magnum PI
It's not a movie, but lately I have been rewatching it, since it was one of my favorite series as a kid. I was kind of worried because you often get blinded by nostalgia, but I just finished the first season and I still enjoyed it quite a lot.
I have been watching a lot of other 80s movies lately and it really makes me miss the decade. Especially musically, not so much the clothes. Also life and people seemed a lot more easy going from the general atmosphere.
The other 80s movies I watched lately:
Short Circuit
Streets of Fire (awesome soundtrack)
The Philadelphia Experiment
The Final Countdown
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
Blues Brothers
Wargames
Ferris Bueller's Day Off
Howard The Duck
The Goonies
1941 (the movie is from 1979 though, so not really 80s)
Explorers
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It is all just about what you expect from a movie - or art in any kind. I never expect or want to be taken back by the technique used or the subtle blend of many. I don't care about the background for the movie, I don't care if the movie is in 2D or 3D, animation or not, b/w or colors, etc. All I want is to walk away from a movie thinking: "Dammit I'm glad I watched this". I choose movie based on what my earlier experience thought me I like. That can be the entertainment value that I wrote about earlier but it can also be a documentary that really took my breath away.
I enjoyed Shawshank. I truely did. It's on my shelf. The pace of the movie was well done. The story was well told, even if they delivered it to you without subtlety. I liked Tim Robbinson's acting. The slow quite nature he gave the character. I liked the ending where everything is revealed and nothing is ended. All the small parts of that movie are good and they come together great.
I however don't like Titanic. It is at time to long and boring with two people just staring into eachothers eyes. (It been some 10 years since I watched it last so I might have changed my opinion due to getting older but this is how I remember it).
But why do we even discuss the quality of movies when they are subjective? It doesn't really matter that I like hollywood romcoms and you like 1950's b/w movies I've never heard of, does it? Is it really neccesary to point out that the "masses" on imdb are wrong arcording to you? Does it change anything?
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It gives certain people hard-ons to hide behind the criterion collection while insulting others' tastes. The difference between someone who likes the Dark Knight and a pedant, is that the former does not claim to have good taste, while the latter is convinced he has good taste.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YYLCVfP.jpg)
Big Momma's House 2
Even better than the first one.
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Canada5565 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.moviehousememories.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Only-God-Forgives-Ryan-Gosling-Theatrical-Poster-Courtesy-of-201x300.jpg)
Cool little movie. I liked it, some won't.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Jackie_Brown70's.jpg/220px-Jackie_Brown70's.jpg)
